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Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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24567…36

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    #32
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Stark wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/dublincommuters/status/1260988624130191360?s=12

    Their statement is absolutely bereft of logic


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    #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Plus another 3 in the Zoo

    I'm not sure that useful to the passing cyclists, considering you have to pay in and its not open in the morning or evening when I'm passing. If you are just out for the day in the park, then maybe.

    I don't know the hours of the farmleigh one, its too far off the beaten track. The Visitor center though I've used a lot. I think it has longer opening hours.


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    #34
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Their statement is absolutely bereft of logic

    Why?

    The current cycle paths have always caused problems, especially when theres a lot of pedestrians, like when there an event on, or just a nice day. I assume its mobbed now.

    OPW always take every opportunity to reduce car access. They've even closed roads, for no reason in the past.

    Currently the side gates are closed and there's police check points at the main entrance, not been through them yet. But I don't know exactly as I've not been in it, since the start of the lock down. I assume they were limiting car access and are not opening it up a little.


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    #35
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    beauf wrote: »
    I don't know the hours of the farmleigh one, its too far off the beaten track. The Visitor center though I've used a lot. I think it has longer opening hours.

    It's really not that much more a hassle than the visitor center one and often not so busy


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    #36
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    beauf wrote: »
    Why?

    Basically saying the amount of cyclists and pedestrians
    has raised significant new road safety issues not experienced before to this extent and these will be exacerbated with the reintroduction of vehicles
    and we're going to ease restrictions on vehicular traffic.


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Weepsie wrote: »
    It's really not that much more a hassle than the visitor center one and often not so busy

    That's true if you're just out for day outing.

    I'm more thinking of commuting and you want a pitstop on the way to or from from work. I guess that's unrealistic anyway.

    I'll get my coat...


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    #38
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    beauf wrote: »
    That's true if you're just out for day outing.

    I'm more thinking of commuting and you want a pitstop on the way to or from from work. I guess that's unrealistic anyway.

    I'll get my coat...

    Fair enough.If just passing through, it's not that handy, unless you're going in at the Gates beside farmleigh.

    The visitor centre has the coffee dock too.


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    #39
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,917 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Visitor centre feels like a victim of its own success a lot of the time. The coffee and the food there are amazing but unless you go really early or late, it can be quite a stressful experience with the crowds.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



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    #40
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    Visitor centre feels like a victim of its own success a lot of the time. The coffee and the food there are amazing but unless you go really early or late, it can be quite a stressful experience with the crowds.

    What are the opening hours of both?

    Neither is cheap but Farmleigh seems particularly expensive. What are their opening hours?

    The visitor center is more for foodies though. Can struggle to get something plain for kids in it. Love both though.


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    #41
    mvt
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭mvt


    Moving the cycle lane onto Chesterfield Avenue whilst also allowing car parking along it doesn't sound like a great idea.

    Also think that the amount of folk walking will start to dwindle as the shops open up.

    Even the small increase in cars over the last week or so has taken away from the nice feeling of a actual park.


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    #42
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    mvt wrote: »
    Even the small increase in cars over the last week or so has taken away from the nice feeling of a actual park.

    I find the presence of people usually take away the nice feeling of anywhere!


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    #43
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,404 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    There's a petition up to stop all through traffic, seems to be gathering some momentum. I accept Chesterfield Ave is a through road for many people and with poor public transport many people have no option. I'm not sure about closing it for all through traffic, would prefer to see it left as it is the past few weeks, with traffic on all other roads banned.

    https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/no-more-traffic-through-phoenix-park


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    #44
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cuts about 30 mins off most of my journeys in that direction. My commute, trips to hospital, sports events things like that.


    I've have no doubt they will close it at some point though. They did it before when they redid the road. The pace or work was glacial, they'd work on a section for months, but kept the bit they weren't working on closed. I used to cycle past it every day and often there was no activity and the park was very deserted in general. Bit eerie in the Dark.


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    #45
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Maybe they could start with closing Chesterfield Ave at the weekends and see how that goes?


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    #46
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    They used to do so already been Castleknock and the Aras.


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    #47
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,492 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    KevRossi wrote: »
    There's a petition up to stop all through traffic, seems to be gathering some momentum. I accept Chesterfield Ave is a through road for many people and with poor public transport many people have no option. I'm not sure about closing it for all through traffic, would prefer to see it left as it is the past few weeks, with traffic on all other roads banned.

    https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/no-more-traffic-through-phoenix-park
    in terms of getting from one end of the park to the other (let's say someone going from blanchardstown to capel street), there are four main options; the southside of the park (i.e. past the side of farmleigh and through chapelizod); chesterfield avenue; blackhorse avenue; or the navan road (and this is ignoring the bus and rail options).
    blackhorse avenue is not a suitable road to suggest to commuter traffic, and through chapelizod is problematic too.
    what they should consider is limiting private motor traffic through the park, but route buses through the park itself. so if you want to get to the ashtown visitor centre, you can get the bus to very nearby, either from the blanch/castleknock side, or from the city centre side.
    and also, it could serve as a bus route for commuters from D15 to get to the city centre, all the way to the IFSC or the point potentially.

    they may have to reconfigure the roundabout near the castleknock gates, it might be a bit tight for buses.


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    #48
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    They've been closing half of it every summer for a last few years.

    So everyone has to drive around all the quieter scenic bits like the Upper Glen road. So people have to drive longer around inside park than straight through it.

    I always thought a ring road, inside the park and close the center of it, would make more sense. You'd have less divided parkland.


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    #49
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    in terms of getting from one end of the park to the other (let's say someone going from blanchardstown to capel street), there are four main options; the southside of the park (i.e. past the side of farmleigh and through chapelizod); chesterfield avenue; blackhorse avenue; or the navan road (and this is ignoring the bus and rail options).
    blackhorse avenue is not a suitable road to suggest to commuter traffic, and through chapelizod is problematic too.
    what they should consider is limiting private motor traffic through the park, but route buses through the park itself. so if you want to get to the ashtown visitor centre, you can get the bus to very nearby, either from the blanch/castleknock side, or from the city centre side.
    and also, it could serve as a bus route for commuters from D15 to get to the city centre, all the way to the IFSC or the point potentially.

    they may have to reconfigure the roundabout near the castleknock gates, it might be a bit tight for buses.

    They ran a bus before but it got caught up in all the traffic.

    Problem, with stopping traffic and running a bus, is that most people (in D15) aren't within easy walking distance of the park. Also everywhere around the park is heavily congested. So feeder buses to the park won't work.

    Electric bikes and scooters. Now they work very well. That's my future I think. I have cycled it a lot, but never managed more than 3 times at week.


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    #50
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    beauf wrote: »
    So people have to drive longer around inside park than straight through it.

    Sorta the point though, if you're using the park as a destination you shouldn't be in a hurry to get anywhere in it.

    If you're just using it to pass through and you're diverted around the glen then you're better off not using it, and be influenced enough by the diversions just not to bother with the park and take an alternative route. The glen way is the longer diversion compared to the North Road.

    I've the park between myself and the city and it's never a route I'd use when travelling in by car anyway, found it the slowest unless I wanted to get around Heuston.


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    #51
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,492 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's a glorious irony in a vehicle whose job it is to alleviate traffic being declared a failure because there was too much traffic for it to work.

    i was kinda getting at a '39P' or similar, a variation on an existing full route, which would go via the park, rather than a dedicated feeder bus.


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    #52
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Sorta the point though, if you're using the park as a destination you shouldn't be in a hurry to get anywhere in it.

    If you're just using it to pass through and you're diverted around the glen then you're better off not using it, and be influenced enough by the diversions just not to bother with the park and take an alternative route. The glen way is the longer diversion compared to the North Road.

    I've the park between myself and the city and it's never a route I'd use when travelling in by car anyway, found it the slowest unless I wanted to get around Heuston.

    The issue is the alternative routes are heavily congested and deliberately bottle necked. North south routes are especially bad.

    Whats your alternative for D15 to city center thats quicker than the park driving?


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    #53
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    there's a glorious irony in a vehicle whose job it is to alleviate traffic being declared a failure because there was too much traffic for it to work.

    i was kinda getting at a '39P' or similar, a variation on an existing full route, which would go via the park, rather than a dedicated feeder bus.

    I was thinking that was what you had in mind.

    They've talked about that for decades. OPW don't want it AFAIK.

    An express route from Blanch Center to end of park and back again.


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    #54
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    beauf wrote: »
    Whats your alternative for D15 to city center thats quicker than the park driving?

    Rush hours I just don't do it by car anymore, I understand not everyone can chose not to. Weekends and evenings I just do the Navan Road and either Stoneybatter or Cabra, depending on where I'm going.

    When I used to drive I would do Blackhorse Avenue, Stoneybatter and head towards Bolton Street in order to get to Parnell Square and cross onto the southside using Matt Talbot bridge. I changed offices around the time the cross city Luas works started. First time I tried it after the works were complete having not done it in a year or two I found all my routes in the city were inaccessible due to the Luas and had to get Google maps to help me.


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    #55
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    beauf wrote: »
    The issue is the alternative routes are heavily congested and deliberately bottle necked. North south routes are especially bad.

    Whats your alternative for D15 to city center thats quicker than the park driving?

    Park cycling.


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    #56
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The Irish Times is now reporting on the campaign to keep through-traffic out of the park...
    Thousands seek end of through-traffic in Dublin’s Phoenix Park


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    #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Same with journal. Full of comments from people who don't know the area wanting to close it off. Was the same on boards the last time.


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    #58
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,917 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I used to live in Dublin 15, now live in Dublin 20, know the park well, use it regularly both for recreation and as a route on the bike if I'm going somewhere north side if ever possible. I fully support the call for traffic restrictions. I have driven there for convenience many times to be honest, but would happily trade in that convenience as there would be so much to be gained that the inconvenience would be worth it.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



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    #59
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    Park cycling.

    I've cycled it for years. But I couldn't do it everyday any more. Also often I'm going multiple places and the bike is not viable.


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    #60
    Mercian Pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭Mercian Pro


    Stark wrote: »
    I used to live in Dublin 15, now live in Dublin 20, know the park well, use it regularly both for recreation and as a route on the bike if I'm going somewhere north side if ever possible. I fully support the call for traffic restrictions. I have driven there for convenience many times to be honest, but would happily trade that in that convenience as there would be so much to be gained that the inconvenience would be worth it.


    Thanks forthat Stark.


    Reading some of the other comments I thought I had strayed into the Cars Forum (or whatever it's called). This is the Cycling Forum where proposals to restrict motor traffic and improve the lot of cyclists should be welcomed. When I was in Bolton Street in the Middle Ages (70's), we produced a report on the Phoenix Park that recommended closing it to through traffic. There was uproar, even in the Dail, with every local TD west or NW of the Park claiming it would be the end of civilisation as we knew it. At regular interval since, the same thing has happened. As recently as last year our Taoiseach added his voice to those of other TDs and Councillors demanding that Chesterfield Avenue remain as a major commuter route. OPW's response was to kick the can down the Avenue and say that they would commission a Transport and Mobility Study. There has been no further mention of this and OPW seem to want to return a situation where cars have unrestricted access to most parts of the Park.


    For those who commute regularly by bike along Chesterfield Avenue, will the new proposal of on-road cycle lanes be an improvement over the current off-road cycle paths? I suspect for a lot of less confident non-commuting cyclists, the cycle paths would be more popular.


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    #61
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Unless they restrict cars, the new cycle lanes will be useless, as they’ll be blocked by parked cars. Back to square one really.


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