Luas upgrade to 55m

grimbergen · 17-06-2019 11:52pm

devnull wrote: »

Confirmation has come from the NTA today that the overall project of tram extensions for the Green Line is now expected to be finished by the end of September 2021 on a phased basis.

The 8 additional 54m trams are due to arrive by September 2021 also.

was that in a press release?

devnull · 18-06-2019 9:58am

grimbergen wrote: »

was that in a press release?

It was from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Jamie2k9 · 09-09-2019 4:58pm

5021 the first existing tram to be increased to 55m and now in service.

tabbey · 13-09-2019 8:36pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

5021 the first existing tram to be increased to 55m and now in service.

After spending three months in one siding followed by a couple of weeks in another.

Hopefully whatever the problem was, it has been resolved and the remainder can be extended promptly.

zom · 14-10-2019 10:00pm

TWENTY-SIX LONGER Luas trams are to be introduced on the Green Line over the next 14 months

https://www.thejournal.ie/longer-green-line-luas-trams-4851094-Oct2019/

I tried to figure out what the tram's side number is for that first presented but I cant, I presume this is 5021 ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFmuuCwiQ6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAvR8oEdsgM

tabbey · 15-10-2019 2:29pm

Another set of intermediate segments arrived in Sandyford this morning.

tabbey · 15-10-2019 10:45pm

zom wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/longer-green-line-luas-trams-4851094-Oct2019/

I tried to figure out what the tram's side number is for that first presented but I cant, I presume this is 5021 ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFmuuCwiQ6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAvR8oEdsgM

It could also be one of 5027 - 5033, which were built as 55 metre long from new.

Jamie2k9 · 16-10-2019 6:14am

It was 5021.

tabbey · 19-10-2019 10:13pm

5001 has had its augmentation surgery and is now 55 metre long.
It has been sitting in Sandyford today, in the same siding where 5021 sat for months.

CatInABox · 19-10-2019 11:17pm

tabbey wrote: »

5001 has had its augmentation surgery and is now 55 metre long.
It has been sitting in Sandyford today, in the same siding where 5021 sat for months.

I wonder how long it takes, and will there be an improvement in how quickly it can be done now that they've had the practice?

LeinsterDub · 20-10-2019 12:39am

CatInABox wrote: »

I wonder how long it takes, and will there be an improvement in how quickly it can be done now that they've had the practice?

Aren't they all due to be done by next August. At that rate they'll need to do 2 a month

tabbey · 20-10-2019 8:02pm

CatInABox wrote: »

I wonder how long it takes, and will there be an improvement in how quickly it can be done now that they've had the practice?

The actual operation only takes a few hours, but clearly there was a teething problem with 5021, whether this was a persistent difficulty, or a dispute between Transdev and Alstom as to who was at fault, I do not know.

Hopefully the remaining trams can be extended without difficulty.

devnull · 20-10-2019 8:06pm

tabbey wrote: »

The actual operation only takes a few hours, but clearly there was a teething problem with 5021, whether this was a persistent difficulty, or a dispute between Transdev and Alstom as to who was at fault, I do not know.

Hopefully the remaining trams can be extended without difficulty.

First tram of that type which Alstom have ever extended to such length, so teething issues are inevitable since the new ones that were delivered were always designed to be that length and the other parts of the tram took that into mind whereas the earlier ones were not with this in mind.

donvito99 · 20-10-2019 8:10pm

Do we know if it was just a trivial issue with design or a power issue? I seem to recall that when the 55m trams were first introduced there were a number of failures attributed to the motors?

goingnowhere · 20-10-2019 8:24pm

Issue on the 55m was an intermittent issue with the static inverter.

p_haugh · 21-10-2019 2:32pm

5021 is out in service today, seen here on Marlborough Street (apologies for the not so stellar photo, it took me by suprise!)

tabbey · 24-11-2019 2:26pm

5014 was extended last week.

zom · 24-11-2019 9:39pm

tabbey wrote: »

5014 was extended last week.

Any record of how many of those 26 are extended up to date?

Idbatterim · 24-11-2019 10:44pm

At peak times. Could they not turn certain trams back at ssg?

Jamie2k9 · 24-11-2019 10:55pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

At peak times. Could they not turn certain trams back at ssg?

Why?

They do via Parnell. Turning at SSG would just disrupt the high freq over peak times.

tabbey · 26-11-2019 12:17pm

zom wrote: »

Any record of how many of those 26 are extended up to date?

5021, 5001, 5014. Three to date.

Idbatterim · 26-11-2019 12:58pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why?

They do via Parnell. Turning at SSG would just disrupt the high freq over peak times.

because a huge amount get on / off at SSG... How long does it take to get a tram from SSG to do the loop and get back there again? at least 12 minutes?

youd have less trams crossing OCB at peak times, which would help other traffic...

bg07 · 26-11-2019 12:59pm

Might be time to update the name of this thread

tabbey · 26-11-2019 1:04pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

because a huge amount get on / off at SSG.

And a huge amount get on/off at Dawson, Trinity etc.

Idbatterim · 26-11-2019 5:46pm

tabbey wrote: »

And a huge amount get on/off at Dawson, Trinity etc.

say you can get a tram to SSG, the next one in several minutes goes direct to dawson, who is going to wait another few mins for a few second walk? before this there was a ten minute walk minimum to connect on the different lines.

the city centre bit is so glacial! Im interested to see what happens when all the new extended tram capacity comes online and is full again, how they go about increasing capacity!

bk · 26-11-2019 7:29pm

bg07 wrote: »

Might be time to update the name of this thread

MOD: Yes, thread title updated.

alentejo · 26-11-2019 10:32pm

Saw a 55 tram on O Connell Street at lunch time. Seamed to stop at every traffic light including where there was a green phase for general motor traffic. Seems very inefficient!

Jamie2k9 · 27-11-2019 12:17am

Idbatterim wrote: »

say you can get a tram to SSG, the next one in several minutes goes direct to dawson, who is going to wait another few mins for a few second walk? before this there was a ten minute walk minimum to connect on the different lines.

the city centre bit is so glacial! Im interested to see what happens when all the new extended tram capacity comes online and is full again, how they go about increasing capacity!

If trams are overcrowded why can't people at SSG wait a few minutes for next one?

Turning at SSG will case a backlog either using the older turn back or new one.

You are right once all trams are longer there will be problems, no taxi ban, no enforcement of traffic laws and to many signal failures these days.

L1011 · 27-11-2019 12:23am

alentejo wrote: »

Saw a 55 tram on O Connell Street at lunch time. Seamed to stop at every traffic light including where there was a green phase for general motor traffic. Seems very inefficient!

Trams obey signals not the lights; though there could still be a problem with the signals obviously.

highdef · 27-11-2019 1:44am

L1011 wrote: »

Trams obey signals not the lights; though there could still be a problem with the signals obviously.

I think this is exactly what alentejo is saying.

zom · 30-11-2019 11:09pm

tabbey wrote: »

5021, 5001, 5014. Three to date.

Had an occasion to travel 5014 yesterday - no number on the cab but I figured out it's a long one after pantograph located in the middle of the tram (5 wheeled sections). Number 5014 was labeled inside, and it also didn't make strange noises as in the middle section in 5021 did when I traveled it some time ago.

antoinolachtnai · 30-11-2019 11:42pm

alentejo wrote: »

Saw a 55 tram on O Connell Street at lunch time. Seamed to stop at every traffic light including where there was a green phase for general motor traffic. Seems very inefficient!

The objective of the exercise is not necessarily to move the tram through as fast as possible. The operator may be trying to keep even spacing between trams in order to maximize capacity.

trellheim · 03-12-2019 1:50pm

O'Connell St is not a good example of tram priority as there are several modes including a perpendicular tram line

tabbey · 06-12-2019 10:52pm

5018 is now extended to 55m

tabbey · 25-01-2020 2:56pm

5002 has been extended to nine module / 55 metre.

tabbey · 02-03-2020 4:39pm

The programme of extension has speeded up, the ninth pair of additional modules arrived in Sandyford this afternoon, less than two weeks since the eighth pair.
5008 has been in service the last couple of weeks, maybe more.

zom · 02-03-2020 10:24pm

tabbey wrote: »

The programme of extension has speeded up, the ninth pair of additional modules arrived in Sandyford this afternoon, less than two weeks since the eighth pair.
5008 has been in service the last couple of weeks, maybe more.

Is it like luas upgrade is limited by delivery of new modules from Alstom? Are they delivered from France or someone else makes them? It is great to see more and more long trams coming on platforms in Dublin.

Idbatterim · 03-03-2020 2:11am

THE luas is an unreliable Mickey Mouse piece of infrastructure, already past it’s sell by date !

zom · 03-03-2020 2:39am

Idbatterim wrote: »

THE luas is an unreliable Mickey Mouse piece of infrastructure, already past it’s sell by date !

What do you mean by that?

Idbatterim · 03-03-2020 5:47am

zom wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

In a city of one and a half million , we have the luas , servicing the most central areas and it runs On street at a glacial pace, has significantly impacted on the bus network and doesn’t even have priority at some minor junctions, for what can shift about what ? 500 per tram?

It cannot handle the numbers Using it now at leak times , never mind another few years from now with the huge scale of development in Dublin ...

zom · 03-03-2020 9:47am

Idbatterim wrote: »

In a city of one and a half million , we have the luas

Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...

highdef · 03-03-2020 11:42am

zom wrote: »

Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...

Sorry, but what are you trying to say here? Am I missing something?

Dublin uses the Citadis 301, 401, 402 and 502 Citadis trams.

devnull · 03-03-2020 11:49am

zom wrote: »

Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...

The model used for Dublin is a specialist built - it was the first of the type of tram that Alstom had ever built at the length it is built at which is why there were some teething issues when they first come on stream.

When this model series was developed the manufacturer never envisaged making a tram so long so didn't make any allowances for it in the design so it very much was a bespoke spec for Dublin.

bk · 03-03-2020 2:09pm

zom wrote: »

service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

You mean like how most similar sized European cities (e.g. Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc.) have multiple Metro lines as the core of their network.

There is nothing wrong with trams as such, they make an important part of most European cities transport network. The problem here, is that we are using them WAY beyond the capacity limits that most other cities use them and we are using them as the core of our network, which they are pretty poor for.

Most other similar sized European cities use multiple Metro and/or DARt type heavy rail networks as the core of their network, with tram lines and bus lines then feeding off that.

Luas has certainly been a success, but we are pushing it far beyond what it is ideally designed for.

zom · 03-03-2020 2:14pm

Luas has certainly been a success, but we are pushing it far beyond what it is ideally designed for.

I have GENIUS idea - build more lines !!!!

bk · 03-03-2020 2:25pm

zom wrote: »

I have GENIUS idea - build more lines !!!!

Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

Markcheese · 03-03-2020 2:30pm

bk wrote: »

Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

While your right that the roads are already congested , so were the streets that the current luas is on ..
( That doesn't mean they shouldn't build metro though )

bk · 03-03-2020 3:07pm

Markcheese wrote: »

While your right that the roads are already congested , so were the streets that the current luas is on ..
( That doesn't mean they shouldn't build metro though )

Well the Green Line was mostly built along a previously closed rail line. The Red Line sort of gets away with it, as it mostly uses Abbey street which wasn't a major used road before it anyway. Though really it should have been cut and cover under O'Connell St and using Abbey Street limits the possible length of the Red Luas trams due to the junctions.

It is the Luas Cross City project that has really caused most of the issues and really shows the limits of trams. I mean it sort of works, but it has caused absolute mayhem to bus and coach services around Trinity College and has massively disturbed other routes and public transport users. Ideally all of that should have been underground.

There really isn't the space in the core city center for any more new Luas lines. I can certainly see extensions to existing lines and splits going off in other directions, etc. But we have definitely seen the limits of it's usefulness IMO.

Markcheese · 03-03-2020 5:28pm

If there was a possibility of doing cut and cover in parts of city centre that'd be great ... ( Can't really see cut and cover working to well on o connell bridge ... )

Dr_Colossus · 04-03-2020 1:51pm

bk wrote: »

Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

What about Suas, never knew that was an actual proposal until I saw the below picture last week, mad stuff. Since Ireland can't do long term planning maybe they'll build another stop-gap system such as below.

Luas upgrade to 55m

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