Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Luas upgrade to 55m

  • 02-12-2018 12:01am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    In a spot of Metrolink proposal, is an idea of upgrading shorter Luas trams suspended / abandoned now? I remember introducing new long Luases was backed by prospect of having all Luases gradually upgraded to 55m. Is it scrapped now?
    Tagged:


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 73,800 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Was there not issues crossing O'Connell bridge with them being too long when stopped? Realistically they should have gone double decker for more capacity instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    Was there not issues crossing O'Connell bridge with them being too long when stopped? Realistically they should have gone double decker for more capacity instead.

    I may be wrong but I have strange feeling they limited use of 55m Luases during rush hours (green line). I had no luck to see long Luases in the mornings or evenings recently, but it is pretty easy to spot one in the middle of a day (working days).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Was there not issues crossing O'Connell bridge with them being too long when stopped? Realistically they should have gone double decker for more capacity instead.

    Double deckers trams are not made anymore. The only place that has them is Hong Kong but they're only the same size as double decker buses and nowhere near the size of a full length Luas.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    No, it's still going ahead. All green line trams are going to be upgraded. If not, it'll hit capacity in a couple of years, instead of five or so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,581 ✭✭✭ cython


    Was there not issues crossing O'Connell bridge with them being too long when stopped? Realistically they should have gone double decker for more capacity instead.
    I think there was one instance of this causing an issue, and it stemmed from a taxi stopping a yellow box and blocking the luas. Outside of that kind of thing, the traffic flows are sequenced to accommodate
    zom wrote: »
    I may be wrong but I have strange feeling they limited use of 55m Luases during rush hours (green line). I had no luck to see long Luases in the mornings or evenings recently, but it is pretty easy to spot one in the middle of a day (working days).
    Don't think so TBH, I get the Luas between Harcourt and Broombridge daily, and fairy regularly I'm on a tram numbered 5027 or greater (which means a 55m tram)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,806 ✭✭✭ goingnowhere


    All new trams are 55m, the remaining 5000 series will be upgraded starting 2019

    All trams on the Green line will be 55m once this is completed


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    The few 55m trams we have fit on the bridge. The length was specified.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭ .G.


    The current ones regularly get stuck coming from Hawkins st onto college green and block the roads as a result so longer ones won't be causing any more hassle than the current ones do! Friday evening one was stuck there so long that the Luas coming down the line after it caught up with it so we had two in a row at the college green stop.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    There are still more trams on order, 8 I believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭ KD345


    devnull wrote: »
    There are still more trams on order, 8 I believe.

    That’s correct. There are 8 new 55m trams on order and an extension planned for the original 26 x 5000 series trams on the green line. This will require an extension to the Sandyford Depot.

    This was all announced in 2017 but I’m not sure what stage things are at.

    https://merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Room/Releases/Minister_Ross_gives_Green_Light_to_€100m_Green_Line_Project.html


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭ KD345


    L1011 wrote: »
    The few 55m trams we have fit on the bridge. The length was specified.

    They don’t. The 55m trams need a clear signal to cross the Rosie Hackett and O’Connell Bridges. If the trams stop on the bridge they block the traffic on the quays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭ tabbey


    For several months the 55m trams (5027 - 5033) were used less intensively than the other trams. But since the new year they have been utilised as much as their older siblings.
    The exception was 5033, which since delivery, generally lurked in Sandyford in the same siding. It appeared to have some problem. In the past week it has been earning its living, so hopefully its issue has been resolved.

    The other 5000 class trams are due to get the additional two segments, starting next month I understand. Presumably the extra segments will be delivered over many months.

    The depot extension has been slowly proceeding over the past six months, but hopefully should be complete soon.

    A few trams, both 3000 class and 4000 class, remain on the Green line, on loan from the Red line. Presumably they will be repatriated after the eight new trams are delivered.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    KD345 wrote: »
    They don’t. The 55m trams need a clear signal to cross the Rosie Hackett and O’Connell Bridges. If the trams stop on the bridge they block the traffic on the quays.

    I'm getting 60m for the tram island on O'Connell Bridge and 65m on the Rosie Hackett, that is using OSM data so not guaranteed to be correct. The 55m was ordered for a reason - 60m was the normal next Alstom size; and the infamous "tram blocks traffic on first day!" headline was because a taxi was in the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭ highdef


    I did some measurements using Google Earth and got more or less bang on 55m from the edge of each yellow box lane marking on either side of the river for O'Connell Bridge. Rosie Hackett is similar however in both cases, a tram stopped on either bridge results in pedestrians being unable to cross across the width of either bridge in a safe manner, as all pedestrian crossings are blocked by the 55m tram stopped on the bridge.

    Having said that, I can only assume that the traffic light signalling always ensures that pedestrians never get a green light to cross when a 55m tram is stopped on either bridge. Unfortunately, lots of people are stupid and/or impatient and will still walk out in front of, or behind the stopped tram and put themselves in danger of being hit by other traffic.....but that's a different topic altogether!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    highdef wrote: »
    I did some measurements using Google Earth and got more or less bang on 55m from the edge of each yellow box lane marking on either side of the river for O'Connell Bridge. Rosie Hackett is similar however in both cases, a tram stopped on either bridge results in pedestrians being unable to cross across the width of either bridge in a safe manner, as all pedestrian crossings are blocked by the 55m tram stopped on the bridge.

    Having said that, I can only assume that the traffic light signalling always ensures that pedestrians never get a green light to cross when a 55m tram is stopped on either bridge. Unfortunately, lots of people are stupid and/or impatient and will still walk out in front of, or behind the stopped tram and put themselves in danger of being hit by other traffic.....but that's a different topic altogether!

    If the 55m trams are stopped on OC Bridge pedestrians get a geen light and one lane on quays is blocked (no traffic moving on S Quays anyway). Its rare they are stopped but only happens on OC Bridge. Not saw any stopped on Hackett.

    On a general note beleive new trams have given trouble in the last few weeks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    O'Connell Bridge is officially 43.8m long between abutments.

    Interestingly it is 46.2m wide between parapets and apparently the only road bridge in Europe which has a longer width than lenght, that's correct it is not a perfect square contrary to popular belief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    GM228 wrote: »
    O'Connell Bridge is officially 43.8m long between abutments.

    Interestingly it is 46.2m wide between parapets and apparently the only road bridge in Europe which has a longer width than lenght, that's correct it is not a perfect square contrary to popular belief.

    There are loads of bridges wider than they are long, I learnt to swim backstroke under a bridge 3' long and 16' wide for example


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    There are loads of bridges wider than they are long, I learnt to swim backstroke under a bridge 3' long and 16' wide for example

    I did say "road bridge" as in one which carries traffic, I have read this before in an architectural book and also found mention of it here:

    https://lovindublin.com/feature/burning-bridges
    O'Connell Bridge

    Contrary to popular belief, O'Connell bridge isn't a perfect square, it's wider than it is long by a mere five metres, and therefore it's the only traffic bridge in Europe wider than it is long.

    Perhaps it is no more than a myth, but it's one which has found it's way into some reputable sources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,125 ✭✭✭ antoinolachtnai


    Maybe the track could be reconfigured a little to allow trams to be parked diagonal-ways?

    I have reason to believe that these are the longest trams Alstom ever built.

    Lengthening more than three trams won’t really have any effect on the crowding at the trams arriving into town at the peak time. It will improve the capacity in theory certainly and stop the problem expanding beyond the peak. But it won’t get rid of the pinch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    tabbey wrote: »
    For several months the 55m trams (5027 - 5033) were used less intensively than the other trams. But since the new year they have been utilised as much as their older siblings.

    The other 5000 class trams are due to get the additional two segments, starting next month I understand. Presumably the extra segments will be delivered over many months.

    A few trams, both 3000 class and 4000 class, remain on the Green line, on loan from the Red line. Presumably they will be repatriated after the eight new trams are delivered.

    Any update on 55m luas upgrade? Any idea of number being upgraded first?
    Also when 8 new trams are suppose to be delivered?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    zom wrote: »
    Any update on 55m luas upgrade? Any idea of number being upgraded first?
    Also when 8 new trams are suppose to be delivered?

    There are a number of them in service at the moment. They are all due to be upgraded by the end of the year. Not sure about the new trams


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    There are a number of them in service at the moment. They are all due to be upgraded by the end of the year. Not sure about the new trams

    Is there in Sandyford depot? Do you know side-numbers of trams in upgrade ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    zom wrote: »
    Is there in Sandyford depot? Do you know side-numbers of trams in upgrade ??
    What do you mean about the depot?
    5033 is the only one I recall off the top of my head


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    5027-5034.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    What do you mean about the depot?
    5033 is the only one I recall off the top of my head

    Apologies, I was wondering if 55m upgrade to current 5000-s will be made in Sandyford depot - but I presume it is not big enough. I was also wondering which old 5000-s will be upgraded first as I haven't seen trams 5026 or 5025 recently (but surely I could be wrong):confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    zom wrote: »
    Apologies, I was wondering if 55m upgrade to current 5000-s will be made in Sandyford depot - but I presume it is not big enough. I was also wondering which old 5000-s will be upgraded first as I haven't seen trams 5026 or 5025 recently (but surely I could be wrong):confused:

    Depot was extended last year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭ tabbey


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Depot was extended last year.

    During the last year, slowly. It is just about finished in the last couple of weeks.

    The additional segments for lengthening the existing 5000 class trams have been coming in the last week or so. 5021 is now 55m long, it has been sitting in Sandyford.

    The new segments are delivered through the gate from Brewery Road and shunted in the depot by a Unilok (tractor/loco).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom


    tabbey wrote: »
    The additional segments for lengthening the existing 5000 class trams have been coming in the last week or so. 5021 is now 55m long, it has been sitting in Sandyford.

    The new segments are delivered through the gate from Brewery Road and shunted in the depot by a Unilok (tractor/loco).

    Thank you for your update. When do you think can we see new 55 upgraded trams like 5021 on tracks?

    Sandyford depot 3D view from Google Maps - beginning of extension jobs, probably mid 2018 :

    LUAS-Sandyford-1024.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,626 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    L1011 wrote: »
    I'm getting 60m for the tram island on O'Connell Bridge and 65m on the Rosie Hackett, that is using OSM data so not guaranteed to be correct. The 55m was ordered for a reason - 60m was the normal next Alstom size; and the infamous "tram blocks traffic on first day!" headline was because a taxi was in the way.



    The luas constantly blocks O'Connell bridge. I work beside and see it everyday.
    The luas goes straight into yellow boxes even if its not clear on the other side and breaks the pedestrian lights also.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭ donvito99


    The luas constantly blocks O'Connell bridge. I work beside and see it everyday.
    The luas goes straight into yellow boxes even if its not clear on the other side and breaks the pedestrian lights also.

    But the reason the path isn't clear is because someone else I.e. a taxi man has blocked the path.


Advertisement