Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

PauloMN · 22-06-2012 1:32pm

Interesting choice of language in the BBC link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18549293

The 140-year-old club is now set to be wound up by HMRC's preferred liquidators BDO.

Mr Green has since formed a new club and is attempting to get access to the Scottish Premier League.

I'll ask again - if this was the same club, why would they need to apply for access to the SPL?

celt262 · 22-06-2012 1:34pm

Anyone that thinks it is not a new club is just clinging on to the past.

Dempsey · 22-06-2012 1:36pm

He'll dismiss the BBC as having an agenda against Rangers and that agenda continues with Sevco

TheBuilder · 22-06-2012 2:12pm

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/creditors-retain-claim-on-rangers-season-ticket-cash.17946985

Ibrox season-ticket renewal money gathered by direct debit is being held in the oldco Rangers' bank account, where it can be claimed by creditors, after Charles Green's group failed to make the necessary banking arrangements.

Fair funny if true

There's been no season ticket payments taken yet.

Dempsey · 22-06-2012 2:17pm

TheBuilder wrote: »

There's been no season ticket payments taken yet.

The RFFF was urging people to buy season tickets yesterday and the Rangers website is doing online sales. How do you know that payments havent been taken?

TheBuilder · 22-06-2012 2:28pm

Dempsey wrote: »

The RFFF was urging people to buy season tickets yesterday and the Rangers website is doing online sales. How do you know that payments havent been taken?

Yes when the time comes, and I don't think many people, even the members of these groups are doing as they're told, people are being wary and making their own choice on renewals.

From the many many season ticket holders I speak to regularly and the others I know through forums.

It's not been a secret Green hasn't got banking facilities for the club yet, every other person who tried to takeover was struggling to get banking facilities for the club as well, Paul Murray said that himself.

ColeTrain · 22-06-2012 3:10pm

PauloMN wrote: »

Interesting choice of language in the BBC link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18549293

I'll ask again - if this was the same club, why would they need to apply for access to the SPL?

Another question would be, if it is the same club after liquidation, then why the hell didn't they just liquidate straight away instead of offering CVA's and messing around with the creditiors?

Old Gill · 22-06-2012 4:34pm

ColeTrain wrote: »

Another question would be, if it is the same club after liquidation, then why the hell didn't they just liquidate straight away instead of offering CVA's and messing around with the creditiors?

From what I can gather from rangers forums their belief is that although the membership died and officially a new club has been set up with assets etc from the old club, the "spirit" of the old club lives on in the new one and thats all that matters. is this about right?

Dempsey · 22-06-2012 5:19pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18556194

Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on 4 July.

All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.

Expanding the league should be considered again whilst streamlining the SPL and SFL into a pyramid league structure.

jack presley · 22-06-2012 7:18pm

Old Gill wrote: »

From what I can gather from rangers forums their belief is that although the membership died and officially a new club has been set up with assets etc from the old club, the "spirit" of the old club lives on in the new one and thats all that matters. is this about right?

That's a reasonable attitude to have I think. You can go on about how it's a different corporate entity but who follows corporate entities? They'll be wearing the same gear, have the same crest, play in the same stadium. Therefore I don't think it's unreasonable to say they're the same team even if technically they aren't and they are starting from scratch

I still don't think they should be allowed in the SPL though.....

Pompey Magnus · 22-06-2012 11:10pm

The exodus begins, Rhys McCabe and another unnamed player have lodged objections to transferring to the new club.

Dempsey · 22-06-2012 11:17pm

jack presley wrote: »

That's a reasonable attitude to have I think. You can go on about how it's a different corporate entity but who follows corporate entities? They'll be wearing the same gear, have the same crest, play in the same stadium. Therefore I don't think it's unreasonable to say they're the same team even if technically they aren't and they are starting from scratch

I still don't think they should be allowed in the SPL though.....

Its the definition of delusional

lubo_moravcik · 23-06-2012 10:00am

Sone Aluko rejects transfer to Newco

SantryRed · 23-06-2012 10:48am

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Sone Aluko rejects transfer to Newco

But if it's the same club why should they have to be transferred?

lubo_moravcik · 23-06-2012 11:14am

SantryRed wrote: »

But if it's the same club why should they have to be transferred?

Ah don't worry about that, we'll hear the latest logical excuses on how that is possible soon enough am sure.

Jelle1880 · 23-06-2012 11:30am

Because their contracts are with the company ?

Doesn't mean a thing.

Apparently there have been talks about Rangers only being put in the First Division:

SCOTTISH football’s bosses are on the brink of securing a revolutionary rescue package which will see Rangers play in the First Division next season.
SFA, SPL and SFL chiefs were locked in talks last night as a six-hour summit went on past midnight.
The meeting was aimed at reaching agreement on radical proposals to deal with the chaos created by the financial carnage at Ibrox.
SFA chief Stewart Regan hosted the secret gathering aimed at bringing an end to the Rangers crisis.
After days of talks between the three ruling bodies, Record Sport understands SFA chief executive Regan, SPL counterpart Neil Doncaster and SFL boss David Longmuir thrashed out a four-point blueprint to revolutionise football in Scotland.
The trio have been tasked with reaching a broad agreement over the future of Rangers as well as reforming the league structure.
This is to bring clarity to the current chaos as the clock ticks down to the SPL general meeting on July 4 when the members will vote on the Ibrox club’s fate.
But negotiations could now deliver a cast-iron deal which would allow the SPL to offer guidance on a way forward and that in turn would see the emotive vote become nothing more than a box-ticking exercise.
As Record Sport revealed this week, proposals are in place for Rangers to go to Division One and common ground has been reached on host of issues.
A key part of the plan would see SFL clubs handed compensation payments from the SPL as part of a deal with Sky to broadcast live Rangers games in Division One.
Clubs across the country will now get the chance to give historic plans the green light.
The four key points on the agenda were:
●Finding a mechanism that will allow Rangers to parachute straight into the First Division next season.
●A guarantee that play-offs are introduced immediately at the top of the First Division for a place in the SPL.
●The distribution of short-term payments to SFL clubs from the SPL to allow Rangers’ First Division games to be shown live on Sky.
●A timeline to form one body, the Scottish Professional Football League.
Regan has managed to unify both leagues and mediate over the squabbling which has been the stumbling block.
Assurances have been made to SPL chief Doncaster that the Sky deal will remain in place but he has been playing hardball over the amount paid to First Division clubs to have Rangers’ games broadcast live.
Longmuir’s battle for a fair deal for the SFL will have huge implications for lower league clubs as they will gain historic capital from a merger with the top flight.
Also on the agenda was the SFL’s bid to install a strong representation within a new SPFL set-up and a stumbling block has been the SPL’s insistence they get a 3-1 ratio in favour of board members.
The SFL demanded an even split on any new board which will also include a new chief executive as well as one independent sitting on the ruling panel.
Regan’s bid to deliver a broad consensus over the way forward also involved discussions over the appellate tribunal’s transfer embargo on Rangers.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/06/23/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-club-set-to-be-given-division-one-lifeline-after-talks-between-league-bosses-86908-23899716/

SantryRed · 23-06-2012 11:34am

If it's the same club then why is a vote needed for them to play in the SPL?

Jelle1880 · 23-06-2012 11:35am

If you don't know it by now you never will.

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 11:57am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Apparently there have been talks about Rangers only being put in the First Division:

Livingston will be rubbing their hands with glee

Jelle1880 wrote: »

If you don't know it by now you never will.

LOL, they only bought the intellectual property of another company, that doesnt include trophies or history.

Jelle1880 · 23-06-2012 12:07pm

Dempsey wrote: »

LOL, they only bought the intellectual property of another company, that doesnt include trophies or history.

Glad you realise it, the trophies and history aren't with the company but with the club, and that club is still there, regardless of the company.

Took you long enough, glad you see it now :cool:

Savage Tyrant · 23-06-2012 12:09pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Glad you realise it, the trophies and history aren't with the company but with the club, and that club is still there, regardless of the company.

Took you long enough, glad you see it now :cool:

Nice try but you fail.
The company and club are intrinsically linked. They are one and the same. All the big clubs are companies these days.

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 12:09pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Glad you realise it, the trophies and history aren't with the company but with the club, and that club is still there, regardless of the company.

Took you long enough, glad you see it now :cool:

LOL, you are delusional, do you know what intellectual property is? Or are you going to break out google to find out?

A Dub in Glasgo · 23-06-2012 4:17pm

The Daily Records take on the current intentions of the clubs with regard to the vote to allow Sevco join the SPL

Savage Tyrant · 23-06-2012 4:31pm

It's all going to be for nothing ADIG .... Talks apparently are well on and are looking likely the Sevco FC will be given the easiest option and will start off in Div 1. An absolute cop out if it goes ahead.

Soups123 · 23-06-2012 4:39pm

How can Rangers insist that valuable assets like players worth money to those owed be transferred to the Newco yet leave behind debt. If I'm owed money surely players worth anything should be resold to pay me?

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 6:51pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

It's all going to be for nothing ADIG .... Talks apparently are well on and are looking likely the Sevco FC will be given the easiest option and will start off in Div 1. An absolute cop out if it goes ahead.

Why would SFL members agree to this? Div3 suits them better and Livingston will be painting a bullseye on the SFA's back. They have no rule allowing them to do this and are searching for loopholes. The irony in this is amusing though.

Soups123 wrote: »

How can Rangers insist that valuable assets like players worth money to those owed be transferred to the Newco yet leave behind debt. If I'm owed money surely players worth anything should be resold to pay me?

Ask Jelle, despite his location saying he's living in Berlin, we think he's in Narnia for the last few months at least.

A Dub in Glasgo · 23-06-2012 6:57pm

Soups123 wrote: »

How can Rangers insist that valuable assets like players worth money to those owed be transferred to the Newco yet leave behind debt. If I'm owed money surely players worth anything should be resold to pay me?

Duff & Phelps had an agreement with Sevco to sell the assets of the old club to him for £5.5m if they could not exist administration with a CVA. Now it can be argued that the assets have not been sold properly to return as much money to creditors. I assume HMRC will look into that.

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 7:12pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Duff & Phelps had an agreement with Sevco to sell the assets of the old club to him for £5.5m if they could not exist administration with a CVA. Now it can be argued that the assets have not been sold properly to return as much money to creditors. I assume HMRC will look into that.

The Scottish Government are investigating D&P over their conflict of interest with Rangers at the moment, interesting what the outcome of that will be.

A Dub in Glasgo · 23-06-2012 7:18pm

Just so happens that the money raised through the sale of assets just about covers D&P & BDO fees and will leave very little for creditors

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 7:24pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Just so happens that the money raised through the sale of assets just about covers D&P & BDO fees and will leave very little for creditors

Jelle thought they would be working for peanuts!

Savage Tyrant · 23-06-2012 7:29pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Just so happens that the money raised through the sale of assets just about covers D&P & BDO fees and will leave very little for creditors

It's an absolute disgrace. The sale of Ibrox and Murray park so far under the market value when so much is owed? There should be a law against it.

If I defaulted on a loan and then fell into arrears... Do you think I'd get away with selling my house and car to my sister for a tenner before they were seized off me?

Soups123 · 23-06-2012 9:54pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Soups123 wrote: »

How can Rangers insist that valuable assets like players worth money to those owed be transferred to the Newco yet leave behind debt. If I'm owed money surely players worth anything should be resold to pay me?

Duff & Phelps had an agreement with Sevco to sell the assets of the old club to him for £5.5m if they could not exist administration with a CVA. Now it can be argued that the assets have not been sold properly to return as much money to creditors. I assume HMRC will look into that.

Cheers, surely they could raise more than double that selling the players, did the £5.5m get The Rangers the stadium, training ground & players. That wud seem fairly illegal and not in the interest of creditors!
I feel sorry for Rangers fans but I hope when all is done and dusted I hope Newco pays the price and has to start from scratch from a player and league perspective

Dempsey · 23-06-2012 10:00pm

The players contracts could be worth nothing yet, a precedent could be set with Rhys McCabe and Sone Aluko looking to terminate their contracts. Also, it is worth remembering that all the players that took pay cuts have also negotiated very low minimum release clauses into their contracts now so they arent going to get near market value on them. Those players arent a commodity to Sevco at all!

On another note, Aluko is the first player I can think of that paid for his own transfer and now is going to set a Bosman-esque precedent to leave the club. Congrats!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/detox-rangers-brand/1993

It might not seem obvious to some that pleading to play football in either non-league or Division 3 is the way to secure “Rangers” football.

A great blog and it does show why Sevco being sent to Div3 is best for Scottish Football.

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 1:04am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18566770

Scottish clubs will be consulted over merging the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League

Representatives of both bodies had "a positive meeting" with Scottish FA counterparts on Friday.

"The discussions are based on the key principles for reconstruction outlined in the Henry McLeish Review of Scottish football:
One league body in the senior game

Promotion/relegation play-off between SPL and SFL First Division

Single financial distribution model

Pyramid system, with the potential for relegation from and promotion to the fourth tier

"Further consultation will take place in the near future, with the aim of reaching a positive outcome on a new model to take Scottish football forward."

Thought that was a meeting about how to get Sevco into Div1 through loopholes that dont exist?

Its fair bad that it takes Scottish Football to hit rock bottom for changes, that have called for before the SPL existed, to be considered properly. Fans have been crying out for things like these for as long as I can remember.

blue-army · 24-06-2012 1:57am

Leaving Rangers off starting in Division 1 is crazy! How can that be allowed?

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 2:14am

blue-army wrote: »

Leaving Rangers off starting in Division 1 is crazy! How can that be allowed?

Its only the papers speculating really, just have to wait and see regarding that.

IMO it would be as insulting to Scottish Football fans as clubs saying they would vote no then voting yes. SFA/SPL/SFL bleat on about how Scottish Football is the best supported per captia (or whatever their stat is ) as a yardstick for their success. Now at the most critical juncture in Scottish Football history, they have grand illusions about ignoring their opinions, strong opinions at that. Thats before we get to the idea that they are looking for loopholes in their own rules. The sort of 'behaviour' they slated both Rangers and Celtic for doing i.e. Lennon's touchline ban & Rangers transfer embargo

El Horseboxo · 24-06-2012 12:53pm

Naismith and Whittaker reject contracts transferring to newco. On SSN now.

PauloMN · 24-06-2012 1:02pm

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

It's all going to be for nothing ADIG .... Talks apparently are well on and are looking likely the Sevco FC will be given the easiest option and will start off in Div 1. An absolute cop out if it goes ahead.

+1.

This will explode if Secvo FC - a new club - are allowed into Div 1. It will be the biggest can of worms to have been opened. In a way, it's almost worse than letting them into the SPL, because it will have put down a marker that the worst that can happen if you cheat for a decade and fail to pay employee NI/PAYE to HMRC is you drop down a division, debt free, sanction free. Scandalous tbh. Scottish football is a fcuking joke if a new club is allowed straight entry into Div 1 purely to appease other clubs finances and a television deal.

Only answer is have them apply to Div 3 as any new club would have to. Any other "solution" cobbled together by loopholes and re-writing rules is a joke. Div 2 and 3 clubs should kick up an absolute storm if Div 1 clubs don't have the balls to do so.

I'm surprised at Mad Vlad, but respect to him for calling it like it is. He is absolutely 100% spot on in this case.

PauloMN · 24-06-2012 1:05pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Its only the papers speculating really, just have to wait and see regarding that.

IMO it would be as insulting to Scottish Football fans as clubs saying they would vote no then voting yes. SFA/SPL/SFL bleat on about how Scottish Football is the best supported per captia (or whatever their stat is ) as a yardstick for their success. Now at the most critical juncture in Scottish Football history, they have grand illusions about ignoring their opinions, strong opinions at that. Thats before we get to the idea that they are looking for loopholes in their own rules. The sort of 'behaviour' they slated both Rangers and Celtic for doing i.e. Lennon's touchline ban & Rangers transfer embargo

I wouldn't even call that a loophole Dempsey. It was a clear inability of the SFA to apply their own fcuking rules, completely missing a very basic point of their own fcuking rules. They are a bunch of gombeens. :mad:

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 1:54pm

PauloMN wrote: »

I wouldn't even call that a loophole Dempsey. It was a clear inability of the SFA to apply their own fcuking rules, completely missing a very basic point of their own fcuking rules. They are a bunch of gombeens. :mad:

True but my point was that clubs shouldnt have to take legal action to get a fair case heard. Many clubs cannot afford the route that Celtic and Rangers took and would just be 'guilty' which is wrong.

Savage Tyrant · 24-06-2012 1:58pm

At this rate they'll struggle for promotion from Div 1 ... They might be better off building a team from the third div.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/107702-steven-naismith-and-steven-whittaker-reject-move-to-rangers-newco/

Steven Naismith and Steven Whittaker reject move to Rangers newco

Steven Naismith and Steven Whittaker have turned down the transfer of their contracts to a newco Rangers and have become free agents.
In statements issued through their lawyers, the players said they have informed Sevco 5088, the company set up by Charles Green to form a new Rangers FC, that they now consider themselves to be unemployed.
Simon Catto, the solicitor dealing with the players’ contracts, said: “Steven Naismith and Steven Whittaker are formally intimating their objection to becoming employed by the transferee In accordance with Regulations 4(7) and 4(9) of the TUPE Regulations.
“Accordingly, Steven Naismith and Steven Whittaker will not be attending for training or any other meeting next week and consider themselves to be under no contractual obligations to any party. They consider they are not employed by any party and are free to consider any employment options they wish.”
Naismith, 25, who joined Rangers from Kilmarnock in 2007, said he made the “difficult decision” after talking with his family. The Scotland international said he took a 75% pay cut at the Ibrox club in the hope it would get out of administration through a CVA.
He said: “Both Steven and I and our agent fought hard with administrators during negotiations to insert clauses that offered protection to staff and players at the club. I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry that Rangers Football Club no longer exists in its original form.
“I would like to take this opportunity to thank Walter Smith, Ally McCoist, Kenny McDowall Ian Durrant, Jim Stewart and the rest of the backroom and medical staff and everyone that works at Ibrox and Murray Park for their support during my time at the club.
“Finally I would like to thank the fans for all their backing. Everyone knows I am a life-long Rangers supporter and so I share in the disappointment and anger of what has happened to the great Rangers Football Club."
Former Hibernian player Whittaker said he believed he had made the right decision after a long time thinking through his options.
The 28-year-old Scotland player said: “I will always have a great deal of affection for the supporters who have shown me great respect throughout my time at Ibrox, I will always be grateful for the support they have given me as a Rangers player.
“Whatever form the new club takes, I wish everyone connected with it the very best for the future.”

Pompey Magnus · 24-06-2012 2:00pm

I half thought Naismith would stay, he was hinting at it a few months ago. He should have no trouble getting a club in England, I reckon his injury played a big part in Rangers' downturn in form last season.

To think D&P rejected £2.5m for him about 10 weeks ago and then sell the entire club for £5.5m and Naismith walks for free, what a shower of chancers they are.

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 2:05pm

It wont stop there, Green has made a complete mess of handling the players contracts.

First the Webster Ruling, what will they call this??

A Dub in Glasgo · 24-06-2012 2:05pm

Naismith

'I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry that Rangers Football Club no longer exists in its original form'

Savage Tyrant · 24-06-2012 2:08pm

If the sex-Pest Goalie runs then I think they'll be fcuked. Well, they're fcuked anyway, but it could cripple the Newco for years.
They'll have no valuable resaleable assets bar the real estate value.

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 2:09pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Naismith

'I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry that Rangers Football Club no longer exists in its original form'

Jelle wont be impressed by that notion! :pac:

Pompey Magnus · 24-06-2012 2:12pm

Even relegation to Division 1 could see them struggle for promotion if they lose enough players...unless the powers that be introduce a ruling that they will be guaranteed promotion no matter where they finish.

Dempsey · 24-06-2012 2:19pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Even relegation to Division 1 could see them struggle for promotion if they lose enough players...unless the powers that be introduce a ruling that they will be guaranteed promotion no matter where they finish.

Extending Sky coverage to Div1 and compensating clubs for this ordeal would be the way Scottish Football once again rigs the game so that they can their 'glamour match' several times a season.

Pompey Magnus · 24-06-2012 2:53pm

Steven Whittaker: "It's a new company. There's no history there"

PauloMN · 24-06-2012 3:19pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Extending Sky coverage to Div1 and compensating clubs for this ordeal would be the way Scottish Football once again rigs the game so that they can their 'glamour match' several times a season.

Scandalous. No other word. Scottish football will suffer bigtime if they go down that route, I guarantee that.

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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