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Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

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Comments

  • #252
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Augme wrote: »
    No, unless they can prove that employing a gay person for example is risking their business.

    If a gay/traveller/married person does something to jeperdise there company/reputation then they should have the option of not having to keep employing them.

    Yes, unless that thing is stating an opinion in their own free time.


  • #253
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    eagle eye wrote: »
    I didn't say they were like men, I said they are not the same as women.
    There are many parts of a woman's body that they don't have.

    I wouldn't bother. You'll just get something like "so you're saying women who have had hysterectomies/mastectomies etc aren't really women, how terrible of you" in response, when everyone knows that is nonsense and not what you're saying

    The medical community knows the difference between male and female regardless of how they identify. It's why they don't waste their time checking a trans man's prostate or performing a smear test on a trans woman.

    The reason they don't check a trans man's prostate is because they know they don't have one. Not because they "know" (think) he is not a man.

    They wouldn't check the prostate of a cis man who had his removed either.


  • #254
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    The reason they don't check a trans man's prostate is because they know they don't have one. Not because they "know" (think) he is not a man.

    No. It's because they know she doesn't have one because she isn't a man.


  • #255
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    The reason they don't check a trans man's prostate is because they know they don't have one. Not because they "know" (think) he is not a man.

    No. It's because they know she doesn't have one because she isn't a man.

    He is a man.


  • #256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    He is a man.

    No. Sheer will, psychology, surgery or hormone treatment will never make a woman a man.

    What is your criteria for me, a man with a penis, to be classified as a woman?


  • #257
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    The reason they don't check a trans man's prostate is because they know they don't have one. Not because they "know" (think) he is not a man.

    They wouldn't check the prostate of a cis man who had his removed either.

    How about they don’t check his prostrate because they know he doesn’t have one because while he identifies as a man, and is legally recognised as a man, he isn’t a biological male?


  • #258
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    He is a man.

    Only in her head!!


  • #259
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    He is a man.

    No. Sheer will, psychology, surgery or hormone treatment will never make a woman a man.

    What is your criteria for me, a man with a penis, to be classified as a woman?

    Do you identify as a woman?


  • #260
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Christina Cold Babel wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    He is a man.

    Only in her head!!

    His head


  • #261
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Candamir wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    The reason they don't check a trans man's prostate is because they know they don't have one. Not because they "know" (think) he is not a man.

    They wouldn't check the prostate of a cis man who had his removed either.

    How about they don’t check his prostrate because they know he doesn’t have one because while he identifies as a man, and is legally recognised as a man, he isn’t a biological male?

    How about what?


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  • #262
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you identify as a woman?

    does this logic only extend to gender? if so, why this arbitrary limitation?


  • #263
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How about what?

    How about the reason I gave? Does it make sense to you?
    Sorry if I was being cryptic, I thought it was a fairly straight forward question.


  • #264
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    Do you identify as a woman?

    If I did, would that be enough for you to allow me to join a woman's only gym or to go somewhere only women are permitted?


  • #265
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you identify as a woman?

    does this logic only extend to gender? if so, why this arbitrary limitation?

    Do you have any examples as to other areas this "logic" might extend to?


  • #266
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you have any examples as to other areas this "logic" might extend to?
    you name it.

    trans racial for example.


  • #267
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    Do you identify as a woman?

    If I did, would that be enough for you to allow me to join a woman's only gym or to go somewhere only women are permitted?

    Do you?


  • #268
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    Do you identify as a woman?

    If I did, would that be enough for you to allow me to join a woman's only gym or to go somewhere only women are permitted?

    Do you?


  • #269
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you have any examples as to other areas this "logic" might extend to?
    you name it.

    trans racial for example.

    How many people identify as other races?


  • #270
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    Do you?

    Sure. I do. Do you think it's acceptable for me to change in a communal women's changing room at the local pool or gym?


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  • #271
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you?

    Do you agree with my statement regarding transmen.

    Doctors don’t check his prostate because they know he doesn’t have one because while he identifies as a man, and is legally recognised as a man, he isn’t a biological male?


  • #272
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    Do you?

    Sure. I do. Do you think it's acceptable for me to change in a communal women's changing room at the local pool or gym?

    Yes. Although I'd be a bit worried that a trans person such as yourself has such negative feelings about yourself. Perhaps some counselling would help you?


  • #273
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How many people identify as other races?

    There’s a few out there actually! If a black person identifies as white, does that make him Caucasian?


  • #274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    How many people identify as other races?

    You seem to answer all the questions with other questions. It shouldn't matter how many. The question is, what is the criteria for you to accept that someone born a man is now a woman? And does that logic apply to other aspects of life such as trans racialism or anorexics?


  • #275
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Augme wrote: »
    They can employ who they want once they are not discriminating. The idea that en employer has to keep a member of staff they don't want seems a bit foolish unless you want companies to fail.

    They would be clearly discriminating on political ideology if they were to fire people for political beliefs. Particularly innocuous ones.


  • #276
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    Yes. Although I'd be a bit worried that a trans person such as yourself has such negative feelings about yourself. Perhaps some counselling would help you?

    Great. You have no issue with me, a grown man with a penis, changing in front of women, perhaps little girls, at the local swimming bath just because I've said I identify as a woman.

    Anyone who has a problem should mind their own business I suppose.

    What a world.


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  • #277
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Candamir wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How many people identify as other races?

    There’s a few out there actually! If a black person identifies as white, does that make him Caucasian?

    A few? Like less than 10? 100? Any links to research on this issue?


  • #278
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,640 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    Wait till the controversy dies down. The rights of the individual trump the rights of the business. It's highly highly unlikely that a business will go out of business because of the views of an employee. And if it does, tough.



    Yes. How do you prove however that you weren't hired based on your political views though?

    Edit: I just saw your edit. It wouldn't as the law would make those clauses null and void.

    What about the right of the individual to run a profitable business? Aren't you denying people this?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #279
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Candamir wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Do you?

    Do you agree with my statement regarding transmen.

    Doctors don’t check his prostate because they know he doesn’t have one because while he identifies as a man, and is legally recognised as a man, he isn’t a biological male?

    That would depend on how you define biological male. I would say he does not have male sex organs.


  • #280
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A few? Like less than 10? 100? Any links to research on this issue?

    Do the numbers matter? If there are only 100 transgender people in a city, should they lose their right to identity as their chosen gender?


  • #281
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    Yes. Although I'd be a bit worried that a trans person such as yourself has such negative feelings about yourself. Perhaps some counselling would help you?

    Great. You have no issue with me, a grown man with a penis, changing in front of women, perhaps little girls, at the local swimming bath just because I've said I identify as a woman.

    Anyone who has a problem should mind their own business I suppose.

    What a world.

    So you were lying and don't identify as a woman therefore it's not an issue. You are never going to enter a women's changing room.


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  • #282
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Discrimination on the grounds of political views and political speech should be 100% illegal, period. All political views and political or ideological speech should be considered "protected speech" and something which it is absolutely, non-negotiably and without exception, forbidden to penalise an individual for in the workplace.

    Poppycock.

    If I employ someone and I find out that their political ideology of choice is that of ISIS, and that they advocate their views online regularly, I should be well within my right to terminate their employment.

    Free speech is a right. Free speech with no consequences is not a right.

    When you sign a contract with an employer, you agree to abide by their rules. If you break those rules, you might be terminated.


  • #283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LLMMLL wrote:
    So you were lying and don't identify as a woman therefore it's not an issue. You are never going to enter a women's changing room.

    So a man is a woman because they feel like it. And if they feel like it, the can do whatever a woman wants.

    Your logic is ..... Absent.


  • #284
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    That would depend on how you define biological male. I would say he does not have male sex organs.

    How would you define a biological male?

    And you’d be right that he doesn’t have male sex organs. That’s because he’s not a biological male.

    I would define a biological male how I was taught in medical school - as a person with an XY genotype, with some intersex and genetic mutations at the SRY gene locus as exceptions to that rule.


  • #285
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Candamir wrote: »
    How would you define a biological male?

    And you’d be right that he doesn’t have male sex organs. That’s because he’s not a biological male.

    I would define a biological male how I was taught in medical school - as a person with an XY genotype, with some intersex and genetic mutations at the SRY gene locus as exceptions to that rule.

    That's transphobic and probably racist. It's up to the person what sex they are.


  • #286
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    Nobelium wrote: »
    That's transphobic and probably racist. It's up to the person what sex they are.

    The crazy thing is that I don’t know if you’re being serious or sarcastic!

    You’d think that when you’re being called racist and transphobic, it would be blindingly obvious!


  • #287
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Candamir wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A few? Like less than 10? 100? Any links to research on this issue?

    Do the numbers matter? If there are only 100 transgender people in a city, should they lose their right to identity as their chosen gender?

    Legal right? Those rights probably never would have happened if there were 100 trans people I the world. There wouldn't even be one per country.

    And if there were less than one per country it would be far more likely that it was an artifact of personal experience.

    What these silly "if I say I identify as a unicorn am I a unicorn" arguments ignore is that there is no comparable issue. People don't identify as unicorns in any great number.

    The fact is there are FAR more than 100 trans people in the world. Trying to muddy the waters with the non existent issue of cross racial identification is exactly that. An attempt to muddy the waters.

    Even if one does ignore the fact that practically nobody identifies as a different race there are multiple issues surrounding that which I'm not going to bother getting into. What is race? Is it similar to gender or sex or different? Are there analogues to the sex/gender situation of a male child who loses their penis being raised as a female but identifying as a male in later life? Etc etc.


  • #288
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Poppycock.

    If I employ someone and I find out that their political ideology of choice is that of ISIS, and that they advocate their views online regularly, I should be well within my right to terminate their employment.

    Free speech is a right. Free speech with no consequences is not a right.

    When you sign a contract with an employer, you agree to abide by their rules. If you break those rules, you might be terminated.

    Supporting ISIS would be illegal anyway.

    What about if they supported left wing parties. And you were a right winger - could you fire them then?

    Can a Fine Gael vote legally fire a Fianna Fáil voter?


  • #289
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Deleted User wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote:
    So you were lying and don't identify as a woman therefore it's not an issue. You are never going to enter a women's changing room.

    So a man is a woman because they feel like it. And if they feel like it, the can do whatever a woman wants.

    Your logic is ..... Absent.

    It depends how you use the word feel. I would say identify. The way you put it makes it sound like they woke up on Monday and felt like a woman and on Tuesday they might wake up and feel like a man. Obviously that's nonsense.


  • #290
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    What about the right of the individual to run a profitable business? Aren't you denying people this?

    How about you answer my question first, I'm not being interviewed by you.


  • #291
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Great. You have no issue with me, a grown man with a penis, changing in front of women, perhaps little girls, at the local swimming bath just because I've said I identify as a woman.

    Anyone who has a problem should mind their own business I suppose.

    What a world.

    I’m a member at the Swan Leisure Centre in Rathmines. The changing rooms for the pool there are unisex. Grown men, grown women and families all change at the same time in the same area in their own cubicles and it’s not a big deal at all.

    In fact, I’d imagine it saves a lot of hassle for mothers with their sons and fathers with their daughters.

    The idea that men are going around with big swinging mickeys in front of little girls is just scaremongering.


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  • #292
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    It depends how you use the word feel. I would say identify. The way you put it makes it sound like they woke up on Monday and felt like a woman and on Tuesday they might wake up and feel like a man. Obviously that's nonsense.

    But aren't there people who identify in such a way? Gender fluid I believe it is.

    And regardless, how do you prove someone has always felt a certain way?


  • #293
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    It depends how you use the word feel. I would say identify. The way you put it makes it sound like they woke up on Monday and felt like a woman and on Tuesday they might wake up and feel like a man. Obviously that's nonsense.

    Is that not what a gender fluid person feels like?

    I have an acquaintance who presents as a female in some situations and a male in others. Is that nonsense?


  • #294
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Candamir wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    That would depend on how you define biological male. I would say he does not have male sex organs.

    How would you define a biological male?

    And you’d be right that he doesn’t have male sex organs. That’s because he’s not a biological male.

    I would define a biological male how I was taught in medical school - as a person with an XY genotype, with some intersex and genetic mutations at the SRY gene locus as exceptions to that rule.

    I wouldn't give a hard and fast definition until we understand the brain in relation to sex/gender differences. Which is a loooooong way off.


  • #295
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    I’m a member at the Swan Leisure Centre in Rathmines. The changing rooms for the pool there are unisex. Grown men, grown women and families all change at the same time in the same area in their own cubicles and it’s not a big deal at all.

    In fact, I’d imagine it saves a lot of hassle for mothers with their sons and fathers with their daughters.

    The idea that men are going around with big swinging mickeys in front of little girls is just scaremongering.

    In fact statistically unisex changing rooms are not good for women.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html


  • #296
    p1akuw47h5r3it
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Poppycock.

    If I employ someone and I find out that their political ideology of choice is that of ISIS, and that they advocate their views online regularly, I should be well within my right to terminate their employment.

    Free speech is a right. Free speech with no consequences is not a right.

    When you sign a contract with an employer, you agree to abide by their rules. If you break those rules, you might be terminated.

    If they are espousing the views of ISIS they are more then likely inciting violence. This is already illegal.


  • #297
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    It depends how you use the word feel. I would say identify. The way you put it makes it sound like they woke up on Monday and felt like a woman and on Tuesday they might wake up and feel like a man. Obviously that's nonsense.

    But aren't there people who identify in such a way? Gender fluid I believe it is.

    And regardless, how do you prove someone has always felt a certain way?

    Gender fluid is different to being trans.

    You don't need to prove it. It's a non issue. How many cis men do you know who have used self identifying as a trans woman fraudulently at some point?


  • #298
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Legal right? Those rights probably never would have happened if there were 100 trans people I the world. There wouldn't even be one per country.

    And if there were less than one per country it would be far more likely that it was an artifact of personal experience.

    What these silly "if I say I identify as a unicorn am I a unicorn" arguments ignore is that there is no comparable issue. People don't identify as unicorns in any great number.

    The fact is there are FAR more than 100 trans people in the world. Trying to muddy the waters with the non existent issue of cross racial identification is exactly that. An attempt to muddy the waters.

    Even if one does ignore the fact that practically nobody identifies as a different race there are multiple issues surrounding that which I'm not going to bother getting into. What is race? Is it similar to gender or sex or different? Are there analogues to the sex/gender situation of a male child who loses their penis being raised as a female but identifying as a male in later life? Etc etc.


    I’m not arguing against rights. I’m trying to get to the crux of how can identifying as something actually change biology?
    There are trans women who insist that they are biologically female. How does this happen?


  • #299
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I wouldn't give a hard and fast definition until we understand the brain in relation to sex/gender differences. Which is a loooooong way off.

    I’m talking about sex, not gender.


  • #300
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Gender fluid is different to being trans.

    You don't need to prove it. It's a non issue. How many cis men do you know who have used self identifying as a trans woman fraudulently at some point?

    The pitch is ruined with the goal post shifting here.


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  • #301
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    In fact statistically unisex changing rooms are not good for women.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html
    Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

    What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms.

    Another racist transphobe and so called facts


This discussion has been closed.
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