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Tenants not paying rent

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    #122
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Graham wrote: »
    :confused:

    Is that new or are you confusing the minimum standard that cover "effective heating and which the tenant can control"?

    Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too


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    #123
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I only know one. But people have complained about them on boards in recent years.


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    #124
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭meijin


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

    that issue was solved many many years ago in many countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating)

    each apt. can have energy meter and you pay for energy used

    having your own heating system in each house / apt seems very inefficient


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    #125
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

    Income tax is lower in most states too.


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    #126
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,967 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    I would tell them you will take the 1400 euros for now but they still owe the remaining 300 euros. If they've lost their jobs they have to apply for HAP or Rent support allowance. The rational is that their own saving will not last and eventually they won't be able to afford the rent. The covid payment is temporary for only 12 weeks may of which have passed.

    If they applied for rent supplement or HAP you would have to have filled in paper work so they haven't applied for it. Any application would be back dated from the time of application so they would get the money back eventually. You also have to be legit and paying tax.


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    #127
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    meijin wrote: »
    that issue was solved many many years ago in many countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating)

    each apt. can have energy meter and you pay for energy used

    having your own heating system in each house / apt seems very inefficient

    It doesn't matter if there is a solution you can't build that way here by law. Cities all around the world use shared utility systems and have done for a long time. They don't allow it here for many reasons but main ones was landlords wouldn't maintain them or control when it was in use.

    It is surprisingly not inefficient because the user pays thus don't waste as much. It is inefficient in building costs and is one reason for higher building costs here


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    #128
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if there is a solution you can't build that way here by law. Cities all around the world use shared utility systems and have done for a long time. They don't allow it here for many reasons but main ones was landlords wouldn't maintain them or control when it was in use.

    It is surprisingly not inefficient because the user pays thus don't waste as much. It is inefficient in building costs and is one reason for higher building costs here

    There is no law against having a central system per se. You can have an additional individual independent system in each unit. i know a landlord who has a central system on for several hours morning and night and the tenants are able to turn on and off the radiators and have individual fixed appliances to supplement the central system.


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    #129
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There is no law against having a central system per se. You can have an additional individual independent system in each unit. i know a landlord who has a central system on for several hours morning and night and the tenants are able to turn on and off the radiators and have individual fixed appliances to supplement the central system.
    So they have to have two sets of fixed heating appliances. So more expensive to build like I said so. I doubt the building was purpose built as multiple units.


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    #130
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    So they have to have two sets of fixed heating appliances. So more expensive to build like I said so. I doubt the building was purpose built as multiple units.

    The building had a central system, when the new regulations came it the central system was left was it was and a few electric heaters wee screwed to the floors.


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    #131
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    What? That is the most unrealistic thing I have heard in a long term. Utilities are not included in rent as the norm in the USA. Normally only in old converted houses due to the hassle of dividing up utilities. In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate

    My experience of the last 30 years differs from yours. In all of the rentals I had before I bought, heat, air, and hot water were all included. I guess if you rent from a slumlord it may be different, more on a par with Ireland.


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

    Not as far as I’m aware, you are responsible for your own electricity and heating but I’ll check with him next time we are talking out of interest.

    Definitely no pool as his previous place (a 1 bed) has a pool etc but the new place is a smaller complex with almost no common areas bar parking. A two bed with pool etc would be pushing up to 4k a month he said due to the fees for pool maintenance etc. He has parking, assume it’s included but it would be in most places in Ireland.
    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Income tax is lower in most states too.

    That and the salaries are very significant higher and the benefits also if you would for good companies. I visit the US quite a bit and it’s expansive to eat, rent etc some things are cheaper but overall the cost of living is higher but the salaries are 3 times higher (in his case) and tax is lower. So it more than makes up for it.


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    #133
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    My experience of the last 30 years differs from yours. In all of the rentals I had before I bought, heat, air, and hot water were all included. I guess if you rent from a slumlord it may be different, more on a par with Ireland.

    This is very dependent on the location and the type of rental. It's most common with apartments in older buildings in larger cities (especially up north, where heat is more necessary than A/C), which often have a central boiler and/or climate control system supplying all of the units with heat, hot water, and ventilation (whose adequacy depends on how much of a cheap-ass slumlord your landlord is, on a scale from "very" to "extremely"). In newer purpose-built apartments (and of course in individual homes being rented) it's very rare to have any utilities included in the rent, except in a few apartments which may provide free broadband and/or TV service (usually through a ****ty provider who offered a big kickback or a really cheap deal to the building owners, and sometimes with the stipulation that the tenant can't decline the service and choose their own provider, unless there are local laws prohibiting that kind of term in a lease).


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    #134
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    dennyk wrote: »
    This is very dependent on the location and the type of rental. It's most common with apartments in older buildings in larger cities (especially up north, where heat is more necessary than A/C), which often have a central boiler and/or climate control system supplying all of the units with heat, hot water, and ventilation (whose adequacy depends on how much of a cheap-ass slumlord your landlord is, on a scale from "very" to "extremely"). In newer purpose-built apartments (and of course in individual homes being rented) it's very rare to have any utilities included in the rent, except in a few apartments which may provide free broadband and/or TV service (usually through a ****ty provider who offered a big kickback or a really cheap deal to the building owners, and sometimes with the stipulation that the tenant can't decline the service and choose their own provider, unless there are local laws prohibiting that kind of term in a lease).

    With the exception of my first rental when I first moved to the US, every apartment I rented was in a newer purpose built apartment building, and every one, including the first older style rental included heat, air and hot water. I have always lived in the north east, it may vary in other areas. I have never heard of a rental apartment where the tenant paid for heat or hot water.


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    #135
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »
    Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.

    I know somebody who was living in San Fran, 3000 a month for a 1 bed which was actually a studio in a house converted to 4 studios and it was a 'decent price'


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    #136
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

    I do n’t think that this can be correct as the Elm Park development on the Rock Road in Dublin definitely has a communal system for which there is a monthly charge. I recall also that it will be a key feature of any development on the Glass Bottle/Poolbeg sites to take excess heat from the incinerator. I’m sure there has also been a suggestion that excess heat from data centres in west Dublin would in future be used to provide district heating to newly planned developments. (All “green” initiatives.)


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    #137
    daedal
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭daedal


    I’m done with this ****ing forum


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    #138
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Not new but it is why electric storage heaters are used in most apartments. Do you know of apartment blocks with central heating systems covered by management fees in Ireland? There may be an exemption for buildings older than 30 years but I think it was in place then too

    There is one in Rathmines, Wynnfield House and another one on the Rock Road beside the former Gowan Motors site.


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    #139
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    daedal wrote: »
    If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.

    Then they should pay the rent on the place they have.


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    #140
    tradingwizz
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭tradingwizz


    The Cool wrote: »

    Can I ask - what did you get in rent for this property 5-10 years ago? I'd imagine a fair bit less, though would I be right in saying your mortgage costs etc would stay the same? To explain what I mean - the house I rented in 2014 for €900 is now up on Daft for €1700.

    Have you considered how much apartment/house prices have gone up in the last 5-10 years? More than rents!
    All costs, inluding mortgage, scale up accordingly!


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    #141
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    tradingwizz wrote: »
    Have you considered how much apartment/house prices have gone up in the last 5-10 years? More than rents!
    All costs, inluding mortgage, scale up accordingly!

    The mortgage on an apartment costs the same throughout the life of the mortgage other than variations cased by varying interest rate which can go up or down.


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    #142
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    I for one expect to pay the same price for things now as I did 10 years ago regardless of what has changed in the intervening years.


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    #143
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Not if caused by the tenant.

    That's exactly what I was talking about: IF insurances can cover this damage, (and probably file a claim against the tenant) then the LLs have less risks and can low the rents


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    #144
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    na1 wrote: »
    That's exactly what I was talking about: IF insurances can cover this damage, (and probably file a claim against the tenant) then the LLs have less risks and can low the rents
    No insurance will cover damage by a tenant. A claim against the tenant means a case in the RTB.


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    #145
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    No insurance will cover damage by a tenant. A claim against the tenant means a case in the RTB.

    And this is a problem: would you take a risk of renting the property, if there is a chance that the tenant will stop paying rent for 6-12 months, and when you finally get the court order to evict, you'll find the place wrecked with 10-s of thousands damage?
    There are many potential landlords who would prefer to have the property left inhabited, because of this risk.
    And other landlords are including these risks into the rental premiums.


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    #146
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,057 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    TheChizler wrote: »
    It's zero cash flow not breaking even. Most investments are negative cash flow until the time comes that they sell or vest, pensions, shares, portfolios. All come with risk.




    Seems that people here would think that they should be able to go out and get a loan of a million Euro to buy Facebook shares, with a view to selling them on in 20 years, and turn around and be moaning and giving the poor mouth that the dividends don't pay off the loan capital and interest..............




    As for writing down the capital asset, people never take into account that they would then be carrying that asset at a cost of zero and should they sell it, they'd be liable for capital gains on the entire amount. e.g buy for 400k, sell in 10 years for 400k. They you pay CGT tax on 400k.

    However that should not be allowed in any case as the state is then taking a portion of the downside risk, which it should not be doing for such an activity as an individual investing in one or two properties.


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    #147
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    Hi OP, I was wondering how this worked out for you? I got the phonecall myself yesterday and agreed to a 25% one month only reduction in rent. It reminded me of this thread.


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    #148
    bbehan202
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭bbehan202


    The ended up paying in full after I explained to them via the agency that it puts me at serious risk if they don't pay. I've heard nothing else since.

    Their lease is up for renewal in July and I may agree on a slight rent reduction then depending on how the market goes but it is likely to tumble by the end of the year. (I hope it doesn't but let's face it)


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