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Tenants not paying rent

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Sounds like the rental is no longer sustainable. The LL is effectively broke (taking what was posted at face value) and should sell up at the first opportunity and start over.

    This is awful rubbish. How you arrive at this conclusion from what the op posted is just bizarre. Maybe it time for the tenants to move out if paying their rent is no longer sustainable (I'm not saying this should have to happen but its equally as big a question why renters haven't savings to tap into as asking why LLs can't subsidise tenants)?


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    #93
    Scoundrel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »
    This is awful rubbish. How you arrive at this conclusion from what the op posted is just bizarre. Maybe it time for the tenants to move out if paying their rent is no longer sustainable (I'm not saying this should have to happen but its equally as big a question why renters haven't savings to tap into as asking why LLs can't subsidise tenants)?

    You're hardly going to have much savings forking out 1700 in rent ffs what planet are you on?


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    #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Scoundrel wrote: »
    You're hardly going to have much savings forking out 1700 in rent ffs what planet are you on?

    It's not one person paying 1700 it's two, so 850 each assuming an even split.


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    #95
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »
    This is awful rubbish. How you arrive at this conclusion from what the op posted is just bizarre. Maybe it time for the tenants to move out if paying their rent is no longer sustainable (I'm not saying this should have to happen but its equally as big a question why renters haven't savings to tap into as asking why LLs can't subsidise tenants)?

    I read what the OP said. They said they couldn't afford to cover any drop in rental income, and couldn't re-finance the mortgage.
    Say the tenants move out. What then. Whats the backup plan? Is the only plan to get tenants who can pay the same rent as 2019 or more?
    The tenants wanting a reduction is just the last straw. This ship was already in trouble. Unless of course the OP is exaggerating.


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    #96
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Scoundrel wrote: »
    The kind heartedness and public spirit of Irish landlords always amazes me they constantly say there's no money/profit in it yet they continue to rent out properties out of the goodness of their own hearts never making a profit according to themselves! Bravo you unsung heroes.

    Many posters have complained that lettings are run in a haphazard way and should be run as a business where each party lives up to their responsibilities. The LL is still providing the service/property so I’m not sure why you think kindheartedness should be anything more than a personal choice on the LLs part. If you feel you can get better value elsewhere, there is nothing to stop you renting a different property. The LL may regret not agreeing to a lower rent, but that is his/her choice and can be dependent on other factors. Many small landlords also have jobs and may too be suffering as a result of Covid 19, that is not the tenants problem though. Renting is not philanthropy, someone has to pay, either the tenant paying the LL and/or the LL paying the bank. So less of the moralising please.


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    #97
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    If both are in the airline industry and are not working for Ryanair who seemed to gave come yp with a relatively reasonable deal fir its staff what have their salaries been reduced from and to, and what are their longer terms prospects?

    Are they on the covid payment which has recently been increased and if so which bracket - one was e370 a week, the other slightly more. Even if each of them are on the lower of this two payments then they would have e1200 pm EACH incoming . It wouod seem reasonable to take the hot of this was the case and they had longer term prospects of their jobs returning. But - isn’t there a new hardship ‘grant’ that renting tenants can apply for from the SW. Have you or they looked at this? It might be worthwhile particularly as it won’t get you into a mess with decreasing rent in what could ve a rent control area and all the complications that could entail -and have the advantage of enabling you not to have to subsadise their rent but not crucify them either? Might be worth a look.

    I’ll always try hard to accommodate good tenants but we pay huge amounts of tax in our salaries and on the 50% of the rent due in government tax - might as well see if they can avail of a state covid 19 support forst before you take the
    hit. Otherwise take the hit but put it in writing that it of r x period on an once off basis once and put a time limit or re-evaluation time limit on it. Seems fair as nobody wants to be locked into something as nobody knows what may happen. Explore the options before you take the hit.


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    #98
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »
    It’s not a misassumption so I won’t be acknowledging it as so.
    Capital allowances give tax relief on the capital cost of a building which basically means you are getting tax relief on your capital repayment.

    Capital allowances write down the tax value of the asset. They are not linked to whether you got a loan or not to purchase the property.

    It wouldn't make a huge difference in the long run anyway as if you plan to sell a rental in a few years, you would have an additional capital gains tax charge on the value of the asset that was wrote down.

    Who it would really benefit is someone who planned to pass down properties on death to children. No capital gains tax on death and the acquisitions relief would probably cover the transfer to a child.


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    #99
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Here is a situation. 4 tenants sharing a 3 bed. All apparently foreign students study and working part time. At the start they are told not to worry about rent as knew PUP was coming.Told them just get prepared to be living together in close quarters and respect each other. Already issues so knew to warn them.

    PUP is all setup. Contact them to say now they should be covered and let me know if they needed a temporary discount for the month as I am sure they had unexpected expenses. One of them tells me they may just be able to give 25% of their rent while the others pay their full rent.

    I ask him if is getting PUP and he says yes so I ask is that not very close to his normal income if not more. Student visas allow you to do 20hours paid work a week. And he says it is a lot lot less. So he says while he is only meant to work 20 hours Dublin is so expensive he has to work 40 hours. So I ask do you get paid a lot more than minimum wage and he says no just minimum wage. So silence for a bit and I eventually say I assume you don't have to use maths in his job. More silence. Explain while Dublin is expensive his rent is incredibly cheap and were his food and bills in lock down are just over €1000 a month. More silence, then he says he has a loan to pay off. OK why are you paying off a loan with rent money and not asking the bank to wait? More silence.

    No discount on the rent next month and you owe the rent for this month.


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    #100
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    bbehan202 wrote: »
    My costs for the property are pretty high and I don't make much money off of it - just break even. I have savings but it's not much. I can't avail of any mortgage holiday from the bank. (That's a whole other story.)
    Why can't you?


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    #101
    daedal
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭daedal


    E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.


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    #102
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    daedal wrote: »
    E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

    you don’t know that they are -they could be senior managers in aviation logistics or cargo or pilots -Give the OP credit for doing reference checks before he rented to both of them.And your tone and sense of entitlement are fairly offensive - if they cannot pay their way they could also both move elsewhere - nobody owes them their home at a price they request -a little courtesy and manners go a long way. Perhaps you could buy a 350,000 house and give it to them because they ‘deserve it’ or you feel free and easy with handing over someone elses money to strangers? Maybe you’d like to go without and Perhaps transfer e400 or e500 of yours to them so they can meet their legal obligations?

    I vote for the OP to get them to get SW to give an exceptional needs payment to meet the rent as promised /discussed by politicians a few weeks back and monitor the situation for 3 months snd do it all in writing.


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    #103
    daedal
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭daedal


    JustAThought wrote: »
    you don’t know that they are -they could be senior managers in aviation logistics or cargo or pilots -Give the OP credit for doing reference checks before he rented to both of them.And your tone and sense of entitlement are fairly offensive - if they cannot pay their way they could also both move elsewhere - nobody owes them their home at a price they request -a little courtesy and manners go a long way. Perhaps you could buy a 350,000 house and give it to them because they ‘deserve it’ or you feel free and easy with handing over someone elses money to strangers? Maybe you’d like to go without and Perhaps transfer e400 or e500 of yours to them so they can meet their legal obligations?

    I vote for the OP to get them to get SW to give an exceptional needs payment to meet the rent as promised /discussed by politicians a few weeks back and monitor the situation for 3 months snd do it all in writing.

    I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    daedal wrote: »
    I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.

    They can always move if it’s not up to scratch. Or just stop feeling like the world owes them something.


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    #105
    daedal
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭daedal


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    They can always move if it’s not up to scratch. Or just stop feeling like the world owes them something.

    If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.


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    #106
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    daedal wrote: »
    E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

    Deedal, the rental market, for the most part, follows the principles of economics, what is in short supply in a time of high demand costs more. For years during the last recession, rents were low due to high supply and low demand, tenants were not compelled to help struggling landlords trapped in negative equity by paying more rent than the market set.

    Edit: I see from the lost recent post that you do understand this, so complaining about the cost while understanding and acknowledging why that cost exists, seems paradoxical.


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    #107
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,483 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    C


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    #108
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    daedal wrote: »
    I’d love to see what the tenants are getting for their €1700, my guess is that they are paying over the odds for a crock of ****. Wonder if OP would be willing to show us photos of the place.
    I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

    Show me your bank statements indeed.


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    #109
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    daedal wrote: »
    If only it was that easy, housing shortages doesn’t allow people to pick and choose, it also drives the rent up to unreasonable levels.

    Well those problems are gone. So it is that easy.

    Lots of supply now and reducing rents.


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    #110
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    any more personal digs at anyone will not go down well.


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    #111
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

    Show me your bank statements indeed.

    The op is not turning the screws on the tenant, the rent is not increasing, from the op, he/she has no proof that the tenant has been effected, they could be working from home.

    The op is abiding by the terms of the lease, how is this squeezing every last penny out of them?


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    #112
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    beauf wrote: »
    Well those problems are gone. So it is that easy.

    Lots of supply now and reducing rents.

    Interestingly, there is another thread where a tenant is trying to rent one of the “lots of supply” and is getting nowhere. Many of the properties seem only to be willing to rent for 5 months until students/Airbnb returns, those that are long let’s have many applicants so there is a ways to go.


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    #113
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Interestingly, there is another thread where a tenant is trying to rent one of the “lots of supply” and is getting nowhere. Many of the properties seem only to be willing to rent for 5 months until students/Airbnb returns, those that are long let’s have many applicants so there is a ways to go.

    5 months should be ideal. People are free to move again and rents will even lower and supply much better by then.

    Most people here don't remember rentals in the early 80-90s but long contacts are meaningless if rents are failing and lots of supply. Long contacts are really only needed where there is poor supply.


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    #114
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    I agree. It sounds like another greedy LL here talking his book and willing to turn the screws on tenants in order to squeeze every penny out of them.

    Show me your bank statements indeed.

    Did you miss what I explained? A tenant is at best paying off a loan rather than paying his rent. At worst they are getting more money and not paying their rent. Who is greedy there?

    He actually has a room to himself but the two people sharing a room are paying all their rent and they are complaining that he shouldn't have his own room as he isn't paying more than them now


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    #115
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    robinbird wrote: »
    Indeed. Let's hope that FG can increase the €1,000,000,000 year in payments that they are giving them once they are properly back in power.
    If they do not have the funds to significantly increase the subsidy rents might well fall.

    The rents will fall if LLs have more rights. Like the right to evict, the right and the right to raise the rent to the current market value.
    Also the property damage claims can be handled by the house insurance.


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    #116
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    bbehan202 wrote: »
      Any advice greatly appreciated.
    Ask yourself a question: it it would be easy for you to find new tenants right now on 1400+ a month? then don't agree on the reduction. You won't loose anything.
    If its hard to find tenants for even 1400, then I would try negotiate. And this has to be a written agreement that this is a temporary reduction.


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    daedal wrote: »
    E. Stop being a greedy bastard and reduce the rent to €1200. What kind of ****ed up country we live in where a tenant has to pay €850 a month on rent alone. That’s more than half their salary if they are on minimum wage.

    Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.


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    #118
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    na1 wrote: »
    Also the property damage claims can be handled by the house insurance.


    Not if caused by the tenant.


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    #119
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Lexie Black Oaf wrote: »
    Why would the country be ****ed up because of that rent level, Irish rent is actually quite reasonable when compared to many countries. I have a friend in the US paying $3500 a month for a two bed apartment, one of the cheapest he could find and just a normal apartment nice but nothing special.

    Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.


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    #120
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Yes, but in the US that will include 24 hour heat, hot water, and air conditioning, and frequently parking and access to a swimming pool. Big difference.

    What? That is the most unrealistic thing I have heard in a long term. Utilities are not included in rent as the norm in the USA. Normally only in old converted houses due to the hassle of dividing up utilities. In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate


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    #121
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    In Ireland you cannot have a central heating system for an entire block each unit has to be separate

    :confused:

    Is that new or are you confusing the minimum standard that cover "effective heating and which the tenant can control"?


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