Feeling like AGS are giving me the run around.

Grizzly 45 · 29-12-2019 5:36pm

Proably a chaotic mix of both.As it will also boil down to;

What will a 32 county police force of Ireland be?
Armed or unarmed for a start? No matter what the politicans say on both sides of the divide.Thee always will be hardcore IRA/Loyalists who will see a 32 county as a sellout,to their particular ideals.If we think ALL weapons were decomissioned,we do have another think coming our way too.There is still enough hardware out there to run a low-intensity conflict until the 2050s at least.That disappered when the Provos broke up and quartermasters went renegade. Apart from that,we haven't experianced gang warfare on a proper scale here YET. Wait until our certain imported ethnic groups get a good foothold here and the current family squabbles will be nothing in comparison

2] As NI has many members of Crown forces, and govt and retired military police personal ,as well as civillians with concealed carry permits issued by PSNI/RUC for their own self-defence.What will become of their security?There will be no way in Hell a police force will be able to offer them 24/7 police protection,and who will judge who is more worthy of it? If it is left,then that opens another can of worms for the South,as it would be unfair to deny concealed carry to anyone under threat in the republic either.Further can of worms in the previous can of worms itself. The people most under threat from shooting are criminals and associates!Do they now have a greater right to a concealed carry permit,than the law abiding shooter?:eek: Don't laught,this is now the situation in Germany with concealed carry.You have a better chance of getting a cCCWP if you are a member of a biker gang who has turned states evidence,than th journalist who broke the story after a 3year undercover investigation!:eek:

IPSC.
Has a stonger following in NI than the Republic,and those that ran to NI and have done SFA!!! to try and rekindle the sport down here as the ROI"repersentatives" will be in for a hard time too.

Blackpowder, reloading historical shoots etc. Will require reworking both NI and ROI liscensing on "explosives" as well as what about Fireworks?freely available in NI ,prohibited in ROI.

Liscensing systems,totally incompatible with each other.
Shooting seasons and requirements for deer hunting lics incompatible as well.

ERGO this will be a hideous mess and a potentially dangerous one too.Because if this is not handled properly it has the potential to spark off the conflict again.Do you think our lot in Dublin could handle this without making a total pigs arse out of this?? but then again,as they are "illegal weapons,and outside the law,it isnt of much concern" to them as they dont affect law abiding shooters"[A paraphrase of one DOJ offical I was at on Dec 5th meeting this year]

tudderone · 29-12-2019 9:18pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Do you think our lot in Dublin could handle this without making a total pigs arse out of this?? but then again,as they are "illegal weapons,and outside the law,it isnt of much concern" to them as they dont affect law abiding shooters"[A paraphrase of one DOJ offical I was at on Dec 5th meeting this year]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Non of the parties here could run a piss-up in Guinesses brewery. Puffed up county councillors is what most of them are. Ditto the senate, a retirement home for the incompetent, the bewildered and the unpopular (those that missed out on a job in brussels).

2012paddy2012 · 29-12-2019 9:21pm

Bagpipe wrote: »

Hello,
I threw in 2 applications (Shotgun and moderator for another rifle) nearly a month and a half ago, the FO has been "looking for me" for last 4 weeks but every time I call the station he's either "in the car" or "off on work-break until Monday, then until Wednesday, then until Friday etc.). I'm starting to get a bit annoyed because I don't want to be constantly annoying them but I would expect that they would have the decency to at least contact me after taking my details so many times.

So would you guys have any ideas on what to do next or am i just being a (whatever the word is ) ?

Look up the station on the site Garda .ie. use the email the station option. Ask about it that route ... it will arrive to the member from the superintendent office , it should elicit a reply in due course ..

Bagpipe · 04-01-2020 9:32pm

Ok so the conclusion to our wonderful adventure.

The conversations over the phone were most likely because of how rough I looked in the passport picture compared to reality

His tone was very very different once we met in person.

So he was very reluctant to sign off on the forms for two reasons, he "doesn't like guns, doesn't like giving out guns and doesn't like people having guns" and because "of the difficulty had in getting a hold of me". But once I explained why I needed them and how I'm not a complete danger to society all was well. The usual 'if he ever has to seize one of my firearms I'll never own one again', proper storage etc. was communicated.

Now after 'PULSE-ing' my referees he caught me looking at his award commemoration thingies PSNI, LP and AGS i.e the large framed rank insignia with different patches or items like the silver whistle and the division number or whatever etc etc, and he told me his stories from working in the PSNI and the London Police before the Gardaí, they were very, very interesting.

So with a confirmation that the applications would be signed off that day and a fine handshake, the interrogation ended

But yes lads thats the conclusion and so I'm really not sure what to make of the communication shambles at the start of this process but sure look we got there in the end.

tudderone · 04-01-2020 10:09pm

Bagpipe wrote: »

Ok so the conclusion to our wonderful adventure.

The conversations over the phone were most likely because of how rough I looked in the passport picture compared to reality His tone was very very different once we met in person.

So he was very reluctant to sign off on the forms for two reasons, he "doesn't like guns, doesn't like giving out guns and doesn't like people having guns" and because "of the difficulty had in getting a hold of me". But once I explained why I needed them and how I'm not a complete danger to society all was well. The usual 'if he ever has to seize one of my firearms I'll never own one again', proper storage etc. was communicated.

Now after 'PULSE-ing' my referees he caught me looking at his award commemoration thingies PSNI, LP and AGS i.e the large framed rank insignia with different patches or items like the silver whistle and the division number or whatever etc etc, and he told me his stories from working in the PSNI and the London Police before the Gardaí, they were very, very interesting.

So with a confirmation that the applications would be signed off that day and a fine handshake, the interrogation ended

But yes lads thats the conclusion and so I'm really not sure what to make of the communication shambles at the start of this process but sure look we got there in the end.

Tough tits, its part of his job :rolleyes:

Gorgeousgeorge · 04-01-2020 10:38pm

Bagpipe wrote: »

Ok so the conclusion to our wonderful adventure.

The conversations over the phone were most likely because of how rough I looked in the passport picture compared to reality His tone was very very different once we met in person.

So he was very reluctant to sign off on the forms for two reasons, he "doesn't like guns, doesn't like giving out guns and doesn't like people having guns" and because "of the difficulty had in getting a hold of me". But once I explained why I needed them and how I'm not a complete danger to society all was well. The usual 'if he ever has to seize one of my firearms I'll never own one again', proper storage etc. was communicated.

Now after 'PULSE-ing' my referees he caught me looking at his award commemoration thingies PSNI, LP and AGS i.e the large framed rank insignia with different patches or items like the silver whistle and the division number or whatever etc etc, and he told me his stories from working in the PSNI and the London Police before the Gardaí, they were very, very interesting.

So with a confirmation that the applications would be signed off that day and a fine handshake, the interrogation ended

But yes lads thats the conclusion and so I'm really not sure what to make of the communication shambles at the start of this process but sure look we got there in the end.

Sounds like a know-it-all w*nker. Who cares if he likes it or not.

Anyway well done on getting sorted and fighting your corner

Emmersonn · 05-01-2020 9:00am

Whether he likes or dislikes guns on a personal level should have no bearing whatever on his administering the laws of our country. He sound a proper control freak. Another muppet who would have us hunting with sticks, Hopefully he never makes it to our Dáil.

BryanL · 05-01-2020 4:45pm

I’m grateful to everyone that pushes their case for a licence or for another gun or for a moderator.

Makes it easier for the rest of us.

And by easier I mean they follow the laws as they’re set out and not their own personal belief or opinion system.

Bagpipe · 05-01-2020 4:55pm

Whats the actual criteria for refusing an application? Surely it isn't like "that firearm looks like something the military would use therefore you are not allowed to have it" or else maybe "that cartridge is too powerful for what you will be doing"?

And also thank you everyone for your input over the last two weeks!

Grizzly 45 · 05-01-2020 5:59pm

Bagpipe wrote: »

Whats the actual criteria for refusing an application? Surely it isn't like "that firearm looks like something the military would use therefore you are not allowed to have it" or else maybe "that cartridge is too powerful for what you will be doing"?

And also thank you everyone for your input over the last two weeks!

What we christined the "I dont like de look o dat now!" clause here many years ago on boards.:D It has fortunately fallen into disuse after many court cases in the DC level and where "Form does NOT follow Function" was proven deciseviely in favour of the Irish shooter,as well as the slight matter of "What does an assault rifle or military "weapon" actually look like under Irish legislation?.
Referencing back to "The Waterford tractor case" in the 1980s in the High court of the Revenue Vs a local Waterford farmer who modified a Toyota HI lux PU to a low ground pressure sprayer and was attempted to be done by customs for using marked fuel in it.As there was no definition in law as to what a tractor is, despite us all maybe knowing what one looks like, it was ruled in the farmers favour.
Ergo the same in the case of firearms that might look "military like".It destroyed the cheif AGS ballistics inspector/"expert" reputation,and with the addition of costs may being awarded against the AGS by the DC for loss,AGS has pulled in their horns abit on this clause.

The simple fact is,if you can prove an especial good reason to own a restricted firearm ,it wil be granted.If say you are going to go Wild boar hiunting on the continent,and can prove such and want a 45/70 lever action or AR in 458 SOCOM for your trip,or want a 10 stot shotgun for Embassy cup.That is good reason there.
Saying you are being refused,because of DOJ policy to reduce semi autos and because the 2017 legislation that Frannie Fitz left in a mess is not good enough,when there ARE lics been granted for such,WITH THE PROVISO,that they may be revoked at some stage in the future,under some reason is possibly an acceptable risk to some?[Despite it being IPSO FACTO legislation,again violating a bunch of Irish and EU and international laws is another days work]

So in the end a Super or Cheif saying they are refusing on the grounds of looks is talking out of his gold braided cap. Ask him for those reasons in writing which he is obliged to do and take it to your solicitor if you want to go down that road.

Bagpipe · 05-01-2020 6:09pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What we christined the "I dont like de look o dat now!" clause here many years ago on boards.:D It has fortunately fallen into disuse after many court cases in the DC level and where "Form does NOT follow Function" was proven deciseviely in favour of the Irish shooter,as well as the slight matter of "What does an assault rifle or military "weapon" actually look like under Irish legislation?.
Referencing back to "The Waterford tractor case" in the 1980s in the High court of the Revenue Vs a local Waterford farmer who modified a Toyota HI lux PU to a low ground pressure sprayer and was attempted to be done by customs for using marked fuel in it.As there was no definition in law as to what a tractor is, despite us all maybe knowing what one looks like, it was ruled in the farmers favour.
Ergo the same in the case of firearms that might look "military like".It destroyed the cheif AGS ballistics inspector/"expert" reputation,and with the addition of costs may being awarded against the AGS by the DC for loss,AGS has pulled in their horns abit on this clause.

The simple fact is,if you can prove an especial good reason to own a restricted firearm ,it wil be granted.If say you are going to go Wild boar hiunting on the continent,and can prove such and want a 45/70 lever action or AR in 458 SOCOM for your trip,or want a 10 stot shotgun for Embassy cup.That is good reason there.
Saying you are being refused,because of DOJ policy to reduce semi autos and because the 2017 legislation that Frannie Fitz left in a mess is not good enough,when there ARE lics been granted for such,WITH THE PROVISO,that they may be revoked at some stage in the future,under some reason is possibly an acceptable risk to some?[Despite it being IPSO FACTO legislation,again violating a bunch of Irish and EU and international laws is another days work]

So in the end a Super or Cheif saying they are refusing on the grounds of looks is talking out of his gold braided cap. Ask him for those reasons in writing which he is obliged to do and take it to your solicitor if you want to go down that road.

So if he can't actually come up with a reason he HAS to sign off on it or else we both take a trip down to legal city?

Technically if i had a very good reason I could get one of those SIG 516s or a bog standard AR-15? Would I even be allowed to keep it at my house?:D

Grizzly 45 · 06-01-2020 3:07am

Bagpipe wrote: »

So if he can't actually come up with a reason he HAS to sign off on it or else we both take a trip down to legal city?

Technically if i had a very good reason I could get one of those SIG 516s or a bog standard AR-15? Would I even be allowed to keep it at my house?:D

Correct...And yes you can keep it in your house.As I and about 180 other semi auto sporting rifle owners can attest to .But no doubt he might take it to the court doors,and not show up and act the bollix as much as possible,until he is told by the judge to start doing his job.

ZiabR · 06-01-2020 9:19am

Glad you got sorted in the end. A long road but you are on the home straight now.

tudderone · 06-01-2020 5:31pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What we christined the "I dont like de look o dat now!" clause here many years ago on boards.:D It has fortunately fallen into disuse after many court cases in the DC level and where "Form does NOT follow Function" was proven deciseviely in favour of the Irish shooter,as well as the slight matter of "What does an assault rifle or military "weapon" actually look like under Irish legislation?.
Referencing back to "The Waterford tractor case" in the 1980s in the High court
Ergo the same in the case of firearms that might look "military like".It destroyed the cheif AGS ballistics inspector/"expert" reputation,and with the addition of costs may being awarded against the AGS by the DC for loss,AGS has pulled in their horns abit on this clause.

I had this out with a fudd superintendent some years ago, not that it made much odds, thick as a brick he was. Everything we own, cars, motorcycles, home tech look very little like they did 10, 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Design moves on at a furious pace, leap-frogging the competition. I remember the first mobile phone i seen, a huge metal battery case, with a cord to a handset coming from it. It cost the earth to buy and run. Now you can get something that costs next to nothing and is basically a computer/camera that you can make calls on and slip in your pocket.

Why should guns be any different ? Technology has moved on from the stuff we had to use in the 80's, baikal double barrels and brno bolt actions. But the PTB would have us like something from the 1890's, preserved in aspic.

2012paddy2012 · 11-01-2020 12:43pm

was this ever resolved

Bagpipe · 11-01-2020 5:06pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

was this ever resolved

Yes everything was sorted, hopefully all my future applications will run smoothly

Grizzly 45 · 11-01-2020 6:53pm

tudderone wrote: »

I had this out with a fudd superintendent some years ago, not that it made much odds, thick as a brick he was. Everything we own, cars, motorcycles, home tech look very little like they did 10, 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Design moves on at a furious pace, leap-frogging the competition. I remember the first mobile phone i seen, a huge metal battery case, with a cord to a handset coming from it. It cost the earth to buy and run. Now you can get something that costs next to nothing and is basically a computer/camera that you can make calls on and slip in your pocket.

Why should guns be any different ? Technology has moved on from the stuff we had to use in the 80's, baikal double barrels and brno bolt actions. But the PTB would have us like something from the 1890's, preserved in aspic.

Well seniority of rank in any army or police force is no grauntee of intelligence or BCS as history has proven many times too.
My 1st boss had one of those Motorola phones...I knew only to well what one of those WW2 GI field radio men felt like.As I was always humping that pig of a device about the place with batteries and charger for him.:P Thing was as heavy as one of the old PRC[Guess what the GIs called it with those initials!] 10 handhelds. And yes technology moves on so fast,actually now that even the dreaded AR15 is now, in its Vietnam issue configuration,into the classic and vintage category of rifles already.:)

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Feeling like AGS are giving me the run around.

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