Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 3:36pm

ssbob wrote: »

Who knows what went on but I guess the point of the management company is to manage your affairs so perhaps he didn't see the need to get someone to "Manage his management team", either way it seems this will all boil down to an out of court settlement!

Yes - but.

I'm not great with money - but even I would talk with lads in work who are great about even car insurance. I guess that makes me ok with money.

Rory is a phone call away from the best minds in the country - very strange.

Anyway - all will come out.

Taking a guess - a % of a small amount is small - a % of a large amount is large.

ssbob · 14-10-2013 3:40pm

Dbu wrote: »

'"Regrettably, this legal action has been taken despite Horizon’s efforts to reach an orderly and fair resolution.

think they tried that one ssbob, well horizon did anyway

As you said that is just one side of the story! We don't know the facts of the case so its hard to say but very few of these go to full trial.

I think where things could get really messy is around the time of the Ryder Cup because if both GMAC and Rory are in the team, they have to be pulling for each other, but on the other hand with GMAC owning 25%(???) of Horizon then it will be quite awkward for McGinley on how to manage the situation!

ForeRight · 14-10-2013 3:46pm

ssbob wrote: »

As you said that is just one side of the story! We don't know the facts of the case so its hard to say but very few of these go to full trial.

I think where things could get really messy is around the time of the Ryder Cup because if both GMAC and Rory are in the team, they have to be pulling for each other, but on the other hand with GMAC owning 25%(???) of Horizon then it will be quite awkward for McGinley on how to manage the situation!

Maybe mcginley can hire Rory mc management to help him deal with it

PARlance · 14-10-2013 4:09pm

Without knowing the in's and out's, I think I'd like to be in Horizons corner for this one.

There is no mention of Horizon overcharging, or not going by the contract, just that the fees are "excessive". That is a fairly "fluffy" basis for a legal action.

Yip Rory, they probably are excessive, but didn't you sign up to them? The fact that you've pulled plug on Horizon may make paying them over (or having paid them over already) a bitter pill to swallow........BUT.......... Are Nike going to counter sue you for paying out an excessive amount over to you?

TRS30 · 14-10-2013 4:16pm

ssbob wrote: »

As you said that is just one side of the story! We don't know the facts of the case so its hard to say but very few of these go to full trial.

I think where things could get really messy is around the time of the Ryder Cup because if both GMAC and Rory are in the team, they have to be pulling for each other, but on the other hand with GMAC owning 25%(???) of Horizon then it will be quite awkward for McGinley on how to manage the situation!

Hopefully will be sorted before then (out of court most likely).

Would hate to see mates fall out over money; especially when both have more than they will ever need/ be able to spend.

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 4:20pm

TRS30 wrote: »

Hopefully will be sorted before then (out of court most likely).

Would hate to see mates fall out over money; especially when both have more than they will ever need/ be able to spend.

partners and money is what friends fall out over - all in this.

Dbu · 14-10-2013 4:29pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/mcilroys-multi-million-euro-contract-signed-on-day-of-christmas-party-610094.html

This aint pretty,

ssbob · 14-10-2013 4:40pm

Dbu wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/mcilroys-multi-million-euro-contract-signed-on-day-of-christmas-party-610094.html

This aint pretty,

From this article

It is due to be listed for trial in October 2014 to fit in with McIlroy’s extensive travelling worldwide.

Doesn't look as if it will be sorted before the Ryder Cup if it stays in court!

TRS30 wrote: »

Hopefully will be sorted before then (out of court most likely).

Would hate to see mates fall out over money; especially when both have more than they will ever need/ be able to spend.

Dbu · 14-10-2013 4:47pm

in a solicitor’s office on the day of Horizon’s Christmas party “in circumstances of great informality”

Jeez barristers really talk some sh**e

Big difference from Darren Clarke and chubbys business relationship.
Clarke said he has never asked Chubby how much commission he has made from him..ever..and had a gentlemans agreement sealed with a handshake, no contract on paper

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 5:02pm

Dbu wrote: »

in a solicitor’s office on the day of Horizon’s Christmas party “in circumstances of great informality”

Jeez barristers really talk some sh**e

Big difference from Darren Clarke and chubbys business relationship.
Clarke said he has never asked Chubby how much commission he has made from him..ever..and had a gentlemans agreement sealed with a handshake, no contract on paper

Well I wouldn't be doing that with Chubby. I don't think anybody should with that much involved.

PARlance · 14-10-2013 5:20pm

Still a weak argument, did they tell him he couldn't have a jagerbomb until he signed the deal or something!

If I could sue people for my own naivety, I'd be a rich man.

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 5:40pm

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Still a weak argument, did they tell him he couldn't have a jagerbomb until he signed the deal or something!

If I could sue people for my own naivety, I'd be a rich man.

As odd as it sounds , a contract can be invalid if drunk.

But was done in a solicitors office, so - all that would be well covered. Anyway all speculation - but there are so many ways a contract can be invalidated - a good enough legal team will give it a craic.

Where is The Lawman here

Other reasons that the case could be based on - sorry haven't a clue - but taking the statement as a clue.

Anyway - maybe we should get back to golf.

Undue influence is a type of improper persuasion that causes a person to enter an unfair transaction. Undue influence is often defined as unfair persuasion by a person who, because of his or her relation to the victim, is justifiably assumed by the victim to be one who will not act in a manner that is inconsistent with the victim's welfare.
The defense of misrepresentation focuses on dishonesty in bargaining. A misrepresentation may be: 1) a false statement of fact, 2) the deliberate withholding of information which a party has a duty to disclose, or 3) an action that conceals a fact (for example, painting over water damage when selling a house).
- See more at: http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-contracts-forms/will-your-contract-be-enforced-under-the-law.html#sthash.esKUeocx.dpuf

ForeRight · 14-10-2013 5:42pm

None of us know the exact finer details of this case but I'd imagine Rory had a host of big wigs check this all out to see if he could jump ship without a come back.

I'd be stunned if he hasn't made this move with great confidence he is in the right on the advice of these advisors.

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 5:44pm

ForeRight wrote: »

None of us know the exact finer details of this case but I'd imagine Rory had a host of big wigs check this all out to see if he could jump ship without a come back.

I'd be stunned if he hasn't made this move with great confidence he is in the right on the advice of these advisors.

Exactly - he feels he has grounds and his legal team feel he has grounds.

themont85 · 14-10-2013 5:45pm

Can someone fill me in on the rumours.

PARlance · 14-10-2013 7:24pm

ForeRight wrote: »

None of us know the exact finer details of this case but I'd imagine Rory had a host of big wigs check this all out to see if he could jump ship without a come back.

I'd be stunned if he hasn't made this move with great confidence he is in the right on the advice of these advisors.

A solicitor is the only person that can legally defend your right to money and then legally take it all from you in fees

I'm sure he did have a host of big wigs and I'm certain they would have persuaded him he had an excellent chance... Why wouldn't they, it's in their interest. Win win for them.

Fair enough, we don't know the details, but from what I can see, RMI's argument is based that fees were excessive and the contract was signed without due care being given by Rory.
Sorry Rory, that's common sense.

I'd love to find out if this is in fact Rory's decision or if someone at Rory Mc International is behind all this.
I'm not sure a lad in his mid 20's would wish to have a court case over his head, against a former friend, for an amount that is a relatively insignificant amount of his total wealth, at a time when he's plenty more to be worrying about.

Maybe in 5 years time, his next agent will sue RMI and the legal team for taking this action after giving him bad advice

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 7:56pm

A big factor for me is - would anybody ever want a friend earning money from their earnings. Particularly when you are in the same game.

Hindsight is great - but just feels wrong for a friend to be in on your crust.

TRS30 · 14-10-2013 8:48pm

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I'm sure he did have a host of big wigs and I'm certain they would have persuaded him he had an excellent chance... Why wouldn't they, it's in their interest. Win win for them.

There will be no winners in this apart from solicitors/ barristers.

TRS30 · 14-10-2013 8:50pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

A big factor for me is - would anybody ever want a friend earning money from their earnings. Particularly when you are in the same game.

Hindsight is great - but just feels wrong for a friend to be in on your crust.

Doesn't Westwood own part of ISM so whatever about friends earning money off you you certainly don't want people you supposedly don't like earning off you!

Dero123 · 14-10-2013 9:12pm

TRS30 wrote: »

Doesn't Westwood own part of ISM so whatever about friends earning money off you you certainly don't want people you supposedly don't like earning off you!

Yes that is correct, one of the reasons they fell out is because McIlroy didn't know Westwood was a shareholder, when he did he left ISM pretty much straight away

Panrich · 14-10-2013 9:14pm

It doesn't read well that he got his money back from the childrens charity whatever the rights and wrongs of it.

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 10:28pm

Dero123 wrote: »

Yes that is correct, one of the reasons they fell out is because McIlroy didn't know Westwood was a shareholder, when he did he left ISM pretty much straight away

I know it is all guess work here.

But - you can sort of understand Rory wanting to start up his own company. All well and good these older senior lads looking after the golden boy. But when they are in the pot - and you are bigger than all of them put together. You can understand his logic. Even if he is wrong.

When you think about it - Chubby - Westwood - Clarke - and all due respects McDowell. Rory is on another planet to them all.

I was surprised he didn't sign for one of the major American agents when he moved on.

FixdePitchmark · 14-10-2013 10:29pm

Panrich wrote: »

It doesn't read well that he got his money back from the childrens charity whatever the rights and wrongs of it.

Doesn't - but charity is a personal thing. It could have been a point of principle.

It is outrageous if somebody gave your money to charity - without you knowing. If true.

jr22 · 14-10-2013 10:31pm

denisoc16 wrote: »

Not in a public forum I'd say Ricky. Just to be on the safe side. But if it's the same rumour that I've heard then it's not actually about Rory. More someone close to him.

Ah jaysus lads, ye're killing me.

An auld PM wouldn't go astray, I nearly broke google there trying to figure out what ye're on about.

I can't be this close to a rumour and not hear it, I'll not sleep

themont85 · 14-10-2013 10:45pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Doesn't - but charity is a personal thing. It could have been a point of principle.

It is outrageous if somebody gave your money to charity - without you knowing. If true.

He's a UNICEF Ambassador though? Maybe it was a break down in communication.

SnowDrifts · 15-10-2013 1:12am

Good article here from Irish Golf Desk...

http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2013/10/14/as-legal-battle-begins-horizon-claim-mcilroy-to-earn-minimum.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

ssbob · 15-10-2013 8:49am

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Good article here from Irish Golf Desk...

http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2013/10/14/as-legal-battle-begins-horizon-claim-mcilroy-to-earn-minimum.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

Other points of dispute will focus on disintegration of the relationship between Conor Ridge and Horizon’s former Director of Strategy, Mr Donal Casey, who is now the CEO of Rory McIlroy’s newly constituted management arm, Rory McIlroy Incorporated. The dispute relates to the size of a “success fee” claimed by Mr Casey on completion of the Nike deal.

This was strange I thought, McIlroy is challenging the amount of the success fee claimed by Donal Casey and now he is a part of Rory McIlroy Incorporated?

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 9:09am

ssbob wrote: »

This was strange I thought, McIlroy is challenging the amount of the success fee claimed by Donal Casey and now he is a part of Rory McIlroy Incorporated?

I assume it was supposed to mean the dispute between Ridge and Casey was due to the fee Casey was claiming.

RonnieL · 15-10-2013 9:52am

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Good article here from Irish Golf Desk...

http://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2013/10/14/as-legal-battle-begins-horizon-claim-mcilroy-to-earn-minimum.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

Excellent article alright. It certainly looks like it's going to be a messy fight. The point at the end of the article regarding the Ryder Cup is an interesting one. You might add Shane Lowry to the "fighting irish" as well, considering his retweet yesterday of a tweet by Peter Alliss reading "I see McIlroy is suing his former agent. Quite right m'lad, imagine signing an agreement and sticking to the terms, I'd sue too y'know". Looks like he subsequently deleted the retweet, presumeably after a call from Conor Ridge!

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 10:24am

RonnieL wrote: »

Excellent article alright. It certainly looks like it's going to be a messy fight. The point at the end of the article regarding the Ryder Cup is an interesting one. You might add Shane Lowry to the "fighting irish" as well, considering his retweet yesterday of a tweet by Peter Alliss reading "I see McIlroy is suing his former agent. Quote right m'lad, imagine signing an agreement and sticking to the terms, I'd sue too y'know". Looks like he subsequently deleted the retweet, presumeably after a call from Conor Ridge!

Strange that Shane would get involved. I would have thought it best for him and McDowell to keep the head down and say and do nothing.

PARlance · 15-10-2013 10:30am

TRS30 wrote: »

Strange that Shane would get involved. I would have thought it best for him and McDowell to keep the head down and say and do nothing.

Shane isn't exactly top of the class in media training

Which is refreshing to see, but he will get himself the odd slap on the wrist.

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 10:34am

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Shane isn't exactly top of the class in media training
Which is refreshing to see, but he will get himself the odd slap on the wrist.

media training= common sense.

However for all we know, he might have rang/text Rory before and had a laugh about it!

slave1 · 15-10-2013 11:48am

newport2 wrote: »

Heard rumours about off course stuff that sounds like an awful position for him to be in if it they're true. If they are, I'd say they're a large factor. So let's go with off-course events.

Yep, I heard that a few months back from a caddy pro's cousin and if they are true then if it was me I'd be gutted being honest, not worth repeating on an internet golf forum.
Off-course events, simple as...

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 12:09pm

slave1 wrote: »

Yep, I heard that a few months back from a caddy pro's cousin and if they are true then if it was me I'd be gutted being honest, not worth repeating on an internet golf forum.
Off-course events, simple as...

Not even a hint?!

ssbob · 15-10-2013 12:11pm

Lets keep rumours off the forum please.

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 12:13pm

ssbob wrote: »

Lets keep rumours off the forum please.

Isn't most of this thread rumours and speculation?

ssbob · 15-10-2013 12:20pm

TRS30 wrote: »

Isn't most of this thread rumours and speculation?

I think most of this thread is a discussion on the court action taken from various news sources around the net, everything that has been said in relation to this I have seen written on different legitimate websites.

What I don't want is people spreading rumours about what may or may not be going on in his personal life or otherwise unless this can be verified with legitimate sources and links to such.

TRS30 · 15-10-2013 12:24pm

ssbob wrote: »

I think most of this thread is a discussion on the court action taken from various news sources around the net, everything that has been said in relation to this I have seen written on different legitimate websites.

Maybe more recently since other news sources have started providing details, however point taken.

realgolfgeek · 15-10-2013 12:36pm

I couldn't give a toss to be honest

SnowDrifts · 15-10-2013 12:55pm

RonnieL wrote: »

Excellent article alright. It certainly looks like it's going to be a messy fight. The point at the end of the article regarding the Ryder Cup is an interesting one. You might add Shane Lowry to the "fighting irish" as well, considering his retweet yesterday of a tweet by Peter Alliss reading "I see McIlroy is suing his former agent. Quite right m'lad, imagine signing an agreement and sticking to the terms, I'd sue too y'know". Looks like he subsequently deleted the retweet, presumeably after a call from Conor Ridge!

Yeah was surprised to see that retweet from Shane. Considering himself and Rory get on, I presumed that it was a taking the pi$$ out of him gesture.

BigChap1759 · 15-10-2013 2:20pm

On the face of it this sounds like a ridiculous challenge from Rory - he signed an extention less than 6 months ago and is now claiming that he he didn't have the business acumen to decide that this wasn't a good deal for him and that the fees were excessive!? Like he didn't have a lawyer look through it.....

I could see him wanting to split but to try and reclaim monies already paid under a signed contract seems to indicate there must be something else at play - GMAC element perhaps?

He seems to have become overly obsessed with money recently which is a shame as it can only distract him from his golf.

Rippeditup · 15-10-2013 2:44pm

You hire a lawyer to manage all this for you so the players lack of business acumen shouldn't be a factor here at all. If he done all this without a lawyer advising him well then he is an idiot in my opinion. These are massive sums of money and he was always going in this direction after he moved to the US as his profile was massive even before last season.

Also claiming to be a 22 year old and not given enough info is a bit rich IMO. Allot (if not most) sports stars are getting massive contracts from a very young age (footballers in their teens) and they somehow get the advice needed to make a deal happen so for me I think that is a bit rich. It's like going into a shop, buying your set of clubs off the advice of a shop assistant and then a year later returning them looking for the full value as they didn't hit every shot perfectly over the course of the year.

There has to be more that has not come out yet as otherwise it all sounds very amateurish and with sums of money like this I doubt things would be done so haphazardly

First Up · 15-10-2013 3:31pm

Rippeditup wrote: »

You hire a lawyer to manage all this for you so the players lack of business acumen shouldn't be a factor here at all. If he done all this without a lawyer advising him well then he is an idiot in my opinion. These are massive sums of money and he was always going in this direction after he moved to the US as his profile was massive even before last season.

Also claiming to be a 22 year old and not given enough info is a bit rich IMO. Allot (if not most) sports stars are getting massive contracts from a very young age (footballers in their teens) and they somehow get the advice needed to make a deal happen so for me I think that is a bit rich. It's like going into a shop, buying your set of clubs off the advice of a shop assistant and then a year later returning them looking for the full value as they didn't hit every shot perfectly over the course of the year.

There has to be more that has not come out yet as otherwise it all sounds very amateurish and with sums of money like this I doubt things would be done so haphazardly

If he was poorly advised when signing the contracts, what is to say he is being any better advised in taking this action? According to the reports I've seen, Horizon made him very rich. His complaint seems to be mostly that their cut is too big but if he agreed to that...

Maybe he mostly needs better advisers.

FixdePitchmark · 15-10-2013 3:51pm

First Up wrote: »

If he was poorly advised when signing the contracts, what is to say he is being any better advised in taking this action? According to the reports I've seen, Horizon made him very rich. His complaint seems to be mostly that their cut is too big but if he agreed to that...

Maybe he mostly needs better advisers.

In fairness - did Rory not make himself and Horizon very rich.

I'm hearing mad stuff like they were on 20 % - but if that is true , it is mad stuff.

I know there is more to it - but a few flights , hotels, contracts, hiring solicitors.
No wonder all of chubby's players are trying to get into the game.

Rippeditup · 15-10-2013 3:51pm

First Up wrote: »

If he was poorly advised when signing the contracts, what is to say he is being any better advised in taking this action? According to the reports I've seen, Horizon made him very rich. His complaint seems to be mostly that their cut is too big but if he agreed to that...

Maybe he mostly needs better advisers.

Sounds that way.. Get experts in who have no other motivation (ie friends/potential business associates) who will take all emotion out of it.
It really feels like it was all done more as mates than business and when it went sour the numbers suddenly became a big issue.

The numbers don't lie most of the time and if you look at Rory's earnings they have seen a pretty significant jump after moving to horizon so that would say to me they have lived upto their side of a business relationship.

Rippeditup · 15-10-2013 3:56pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

In fairness - did Rory not make himself and Horizon very rich.

I'm hearing mad stuff like they were on 20 % - but if that is true , it is mad stuff.

I know there is more to it - but a few flights , hotels, contracts, hiring solicitors.
No wonder all of chubby's players are trying to get into the game.

Apparently 20% is the going rate for off course earnings as this is where they should be adding value (And have) Looks like a pretty number if you can pick up 1 or 2 top players.

If you are a top player you then can work with some experts in the field and use your stature/contacts to manage some players and you are away.

Sounds much better than the 9-5 here during our cold winter.

FixdePitchmark · 15-10-2013 4:04pm

Rippeditup wrote: »

Apparently 20% is the going rate for off course earnings as this is where they should be adding value (And have) Looks like a pretty number if you can pick up 1 or 2 top players.

If you are a top player you then can work with some experts in the field and use your stature/contacts to manage some players and you are away.

Sounds much better than the 9-5 here during our cold winter.

Mad stuff in my view.

That is why he is setting up himself.

If Rory had no agent - he could have walked into Nike's office and got a deal with a solicitor.

So - the more I hear about the fees - the more sympathy I have for Rory.

G Mac in on it and all.

Look at the whole set up - without Rory they have nothing.

If it was 10 % or less - fair enough.

PARlance · 15-10-2013 4:17pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Mad stuff in my view.

That is why he is setting up himself.

If Rory had no agent - he could have walked into Nike's office and got a deal with a solicitor.

So - the more I hear about the fees - the more sympathy I have for Rory.

G Mac in on it and all.

Look at the whole set up - without Rory they have nothing.

If it was 10 % or less - fair enough.

Really Fixde?
This is the lad who is basing part of his legal case on the fact that he signed his contract under pressure because he didn't want to hold up the Horizon lads having their Christmas party.

On that basis I'd expect him to walk out of Nike with a deal that meant him giving them 50% of all his winnings just so he could use their gear.

His current court case is basically based on his incompetence to be able to do a deal.

20% to Horizon of a €200 million deal means he gets €160 million.
Joking aside, he wouldn't get close to €100 million if he went with himself and a solicitor.

Doing a deal like this is an art in itself, it's the bigger prize that needs to be remembered not the % cut.

FixdePitchmark · 15-10-2013 4:24pm

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Really Fixde?
This is the lad who is basing part of his legal case on the fact that he signed his contract under pressure because he didn't want to hold up the Horizon lads having their Christmas party.

On that basis I'd expect him to walk out of Nike with a deal that meant him giving them 50% of all his winnings just so he could use their gear.

His current court case is basically based on his incompetence to be able to do a deal.

20% to Horizon of a €200 million deal means he gets €160 million.
Joking aside, he wouldn't get close to €100 million if he went with himself and a solicitor.

Doing a deal like this is an art in itself, it's the bigger prize that needs to be remembered not the % cut.

I think 20 % is too much.

Honestly do. Rory does too. I know Rory - couldn't do a deal - but it is not as if Horizon were very experienced with a deal of that scale too.

BigChap1759 · 15-10-2013 4:30pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Mad stuff in my view.

That is why he is setting up himself.

If Rory had no agent - he could have walked into Nike's office and got a deal with a solicitor.

So - the more I hear about the fees - the more sympathy I have for Rory.

G Mac in on it and all.

Look at the whole set up - without Rory they have nothing.

If it was 10 % or less - fair enough.

They originally made 20% of his off-course contracts which they negotiated and 5% of his on course earnings - this was renegotiated down in March to 15% of off-course contracts and nothing from on-course.

This is advised to be on the high side not not that unusual or outlandish no matter how it seems from the outside.

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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