The Frederick St protest and reaction

dav3 · 14-09-2018 10:45am

weldoninhio wrote: »

A statement from the Gardai (who i'm sure can access the relevant info) carries a lot more weight than comments from the rent-a-yobs (who think shouting the loudest = proof)

Any statement on the roadworthiness of the vehicle? Surely they must have information on a 12 year old rusty banger with dodgy tires. Or allowing a vehicle to park on a double yellow line, on a corner, for such a long period of time.

Thatnastyboy · 14-09-2018 10:48am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Like the thousands of berth test they Garda told us they took ,
Why in the world would you believe what the Garda say without evidence
Anyone can use the website online , you just enter the reg and it clearly shows it was last taxed in 2014 , but no no the Garda are telling the truth,

Cos that's the crux of what's happening here, fcuking tax on a jesus van.

It's a waste of breath/data, worrying about whether tax has been collected in another state.

There's a bigger debate to be had, going on about the van diminishes everything, regardless of which side of the discussion you find yourself.

blanch152 · 14-09-2018 10:50am

dav3 wrote: »

Any statement on the roadworthiness of the vehicle? Surely they must have information on a 12 year old rusty banger with dodgy tires. Or allowing a vehicle to park on a double yellow line, on a corner, for such a long period of time.

It is farcical in light of the criminal actions of the protesters to be focussing on bald tyres on a badly parked van.

The protesters seem to think that they can break every law in the land but if a single person who disagrees with them commits the most minor offence, it is a scandal.

yourdeadwright · 14-09-2018 11:00am

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Like the thousands of berth test they Garda told us they took ,
Why in the world would you believe what the Garda say without evidence
Anyone can use the website online , you just enter the reg and it clearly shows it was last taxed in 2014 , but no no the Garda are telling the truth,

Cos that's the crux of what's happening here, fcuking tax on a jesus van.

It's a waste of breath/data, worrying about whether tax has been collected in another state.

There's a bigger debate to be had, going on about the van diminishes everything, regardless of which side of the discussion you find yourself.

I agree it with you but once again it calls the professionalism of the Garda into question , We leave yourself open to stupid things like this ,its very unprofessional

yourdeadwright · 14-09-2018 11:02am

blanch152 wrote: »

dav3 wrote: »

Any statement on the roadworthiness of the vehicle? Surely they must have information on a 12 year old rusty banger with dodgy tires. Or allowing a vehicle to park on a double yellow line, on a corner, for such a long period of time.

It is farcical in light of the criminal actions of the protesters to be focussing on bald tyres on a badly parked van.

The protesters seem to think that they can break every law in the land but if a single person who disagrees with them commits the most minor offence, it is a scandal.

Its the Garda that give them the ammunition, do things professionally and correct and then there is no debate to be had,
Again I do not agree with the protesters ,

Thatnastyboy · 14-09-2018 11:16am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree it with you but once again it calls the professionalism of the Garda into question , We leave yourself open to stupid things like this ,its very unprofessional

I dont think it matters tbh, rather have em standing there with ballys and batons than shooting me at a traffic stop for scratching my hole.

The real issue here is that it's too fcuking expensive to build/buy/rent a house here, seems to be lost on a lot of folk worrying about a van & the length of some lads hair.

But how in the blue fcuk do we solve this issue without making something else feel the hit? or creating too fine a fine line between those who go broke to pay for a house, vs those who get one paid for by the state. Who gets what, and why?

I am not seeing any suggestions on how to do this - by anyone...

We could make it cheaper to build housing by reducing the labour cost for instance, which will in turn reduce the ability of people to buy houses from their wages.

We could reduce the building regulations (part L) but in turn continue to destroy the environment with energy hungry housing - which in turn would be more expensive to run/keep warm so increasing the life cost..

Can't win..

Honestly - can someone tell me an actual VIABLE solution to the quagmire we find ourselves in, I wrote out a list of about 40 different approaches last night - in each eventuality - a large amount of people get screwed over, no matter what.

BBFAN · 14-09-2018 11:31am

weldoninhio wrote: »

As stated many times throughout this thread and in every national newspaper I have read. The Gardai have stated that the van was fully taxed and insured. Can we stop waffling on with this misinformation??

And as been stated many times in this thread also, they have been proven wrong in that the van hasn't been taxed since 2014 so can you please stop waffling on with misinformation.

BBFAN · 14-09-2018 11:35am

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

I dont think it matters tbh, rather have em standing there with ballys and batons than shooting me at a traffic stop for scratching my hole.

The real issue here is that it's too fcuking expensive to build/buy/rent a house here, seems to be lost on a lot of folk worrying about a van & the length of some lads hair.

But how in the blue fcuk do we solve this issue without making something else feel the hit? or creating too fine a fine line between those who go broke to pay for a house, vs those who get one paid for by the state. Who gets what, and why?

I am not seeing any suggestions on how to do this - by anyone...

We could make it cheaper to build housing by reducing the labour cost for instance, which will in turn reduce the ability of people to buy houses from their wages.

We could reduce the building regulations (part L) but in turn continue to destroy the environment with energy hungry housing - which in turn would be more expensive to run/keep warm so increasing the life cost..

Can't win..

Honestly - can someone tell me an actual VIABLE solution to the quagmire we find ourselves in, I wrote out a list of about 40 different approaches last night - in each eventuality - a large amount of people get screwed over, no matter what.

The only solution to this problem is INCREASED SUPPLY. That's it, it's not rocket science. I don't see how increasing supply screws anyone over except, (wait for it), investors and landlords.

See something wrong there?

Captain Obvious · 14-09-2018 11:36am

The van was tax and insurance compliant in Ireland. That doesn't mean it was taxed. It wasn't required to be taxed in Ireland and it's tax status in UK/NI is not something the Gardaí enforce.

Captain Obvious · 14-09-2018 11:38am

BBFAN wrote: »

The only solution to this problem is INCREASED SUPPLY. That's it, it's not rocket science. I don't see how increasing supply screws anyone over except, (wait for it), investors and landlords.

See something wrong there?

I think the argument is over how to increase supply. Trying to cram houses into every hole in Dublin isn't the way imho. Make renting a more attractive proposal for property owners. Loosen up planning restrictions. Sort out the banks so they can't keep screwing us on mortgages. Improve rural transport links.

yourdeadwright · 14-09-2018 11:40am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The van was tax and insurance compliant in Ireland. That doesn't mean it was taxed. It wasn't required to be taxed in Ireland and it's tax status in UK/NI is not something the Gardaí enforce.

Serious question , how can you be tax compliant if its not taxed ? Wouldn't everyone just buy northern reg cars and drive them around non tax'd ?
So why do Garda impound car's not Tax'd and not VRT'd

Thatnastyboy · 14-09-2018 11:42am

BBFAN wrote: »

The only solution to this problem is INCREASED SUPPLY. That's it, it's not rocket science. I don't see how increasing supply screws anyone over except, (wait for it), investors and landlords.

See something wrong there?

Ah, so if you capitalise it it just happens?

How do we INCREASE THE SUPPLY? Supply from who - those nasty mean investors and developers who do it for PROFIT (the fcuking cheek of them having a business model)?

or get the government to build them with funds.. FUNDS from where? what funds?

You haven't answered anything, at all.

BBFAN · 14-09-2018 11:44am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I think the argument is over how to increase supply. Trying to cram houses into every hole in Dublin isn't the way imho. Make renting a more attractive proposal for property owners. Loosen up planning restrictions. Sort out the banks so they can't keep screwing us on mortgages. Improve rural transport links.

I agree, there are a million different reasons to delay doing something, there's always going to be an argument against wherever or however they decide to build houses, doesn't matter. They've spent 10 years now sitting on their hands using all these arguments. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and just do it, right or wrong.

It's easy for politicians to sit in the Dail and debate these issues for years on end, they know they won't be held accountable at the end of the day because they're only there for 4 years, maybe less. What's not easy is to take action.

It's the reason I admire the protestors, they may not be doing the right things but they're at least doing something.

I also think a much more experienced minister should be put in charge of housing and left there for his lifetime, not the lifetime of the government.

Anyone who knows they have an exit route from a job in a few years times is not incentivised to do that job well.

weldoninhio · 14-09-2018 11:46am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Like the thousands of berth test they Garda told us they took ,
Why in the world would you believe what the Garda say without evidence
Anyone can use the website online , you just enter the reg and it clearly shows it was last taxed in 2014 , but no no the Garda are telling the truth,

You mean on the website that states:

"I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker or agent and acting on behalf of my client.

I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without any of the above reasonable causes. If I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring this information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 170 of the Data Protection Act 2018. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry."

Also, the van is no longer registered in UK, it is registered in Wexford.

knipex · 14-09-2018 11:48am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree it with you but once again it calls the professionalism of the Garda into question , We leave yourself open to stupid things like this ,its very unprofessional

Public order unit were dispatched to a site for a specific reason and that was not to do spot checks for road tax and lyres.

It drives me mad, "protestors" defy the law and court orders but are quick to demand action under the law when they perceive they may have been wronged.

F***ing joke

Captain Obvious · 14-09-2018 11:49am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Serious question , how can you be tax compliant if its not taxed ? Wouldn't everyone just buy northern reg cars and drive them around non tax'd ?
So why do Garda impound car's not Tax'd and not VRT'd

If you live and work in NI then you must pay vehicle tax to the NI/UK. If you travel to Ireland for the day you are not obliged to tax your car in Ireland. That's why you can drive up to Newry and do the shopping without having to pay vehicle tax to NI.

If, on the other hand, you live and work in Ireland and drive around in a UK import, you must register it and pay VRT within one month of bringing it in. Then you must pay tax on it.

Gardaí impound vehicles that have no Irish tax but they cannot enforce UK/NI revenue laws.

Lau2976 · 14-09-2018 11:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

Lau2976 wrote: »

thing about "the people youve spoken to" is that its a self-selecting group innit

Which is why I pointed that out...?

14-09-2018 11:51am

BBFAN wrote: »

I agree, there are a million different reasons to delay doing something, there's always going to be an argument against wherever or however they decide to build houses, doesn't matter. They've spent 10 years now sitting on their hands using all these arguments. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and just do it, right or wrong.

It's easy for politicians to sit in the Dail and debate these issues for years on end, they know they won't be held accountable at the end of the day because they're only there for 4 years, maybe less. What's not easy is to take action.

It's the reason I admire the protestors, they may not be doing the right things but they're at least doing something.

I also think a much more experienced minister should be put in charge of housing and left there for his lifetime, not the lifetime of the government.

Anyone who knows they have an exit route from a job in a few years times is not incentivised to do that job well.

jesus what an absolute disaster of a post

weldoninhio · 14-09-2018 11:54am

BBFAN wrote: »

And as been stated many times in this thread also, they have been proven wrong in that the van hasn't been taxed since 2014 so can you please stop waffling on with misinformation.

Where has it been proven?? Any story I've read in the red tops use the word "allegedly" anytime they mention the tax being out.

Captain Obvious · 14-09-2018 11:54am

BBFAN wrote: »

I agree, there are a million different reasons to delay doing something, there's always going to be an argument against wherever or however they decide to build houses, doesn't matter. They've spent 10 years now sitting on their hands using all these arguments. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and just do it, right or wrong.

It's easy for politicians to sit in the Dail and debate these issues for years on end, they know they won't be held accountable at the end of the day because they're only there for 4 years, maybe less. What's not easy is to take action.

It's the reason I admire the protestors, they may not be doing the right things but they're at least doing something.

I also think a much more experienced minister should be put in charge of housing and left there for his lifetime, not the lifetime of the government.

Anyone who knows they have an exit route from a job in a few years times is not incentivised to do that job well.

They aren't doing anything useful though. All they've done is pick a fight with the Gardaí and disrupt traffic. They've also managed to waste hospital resources too. A true accomplishment of uselessness.

RWCNT · 14-09-2018 11:55am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They've also managed to waste hospital resources too.

Havn't heard about this, how so?

Captain Obvious · 14-09-2018 12:00pm

RWCNT wrote: »

Havn't heard about this, how so?

When they were released form custody they piled into A&E

Arghus · 14-09-2018 12:02pm

the_syco wrote: »

How was it like the last time you went looking for a house? And when was that?

I was last looking for accommodation between May and July and before then between September and November.

It's tough. It's pure dog eat dog stuff out there at the moment. As soon as a property appears on Daft about a hundred people enquire in the first fifteen minutes. That's not an exaggeration. Most people who haven't been thrust into that game are a bit blasé about how mad it is out there at the moment - and it's getting worse.

yourdeadwright · 14-09-2018 12:02pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Like the thousands of berth test they Garda told us they took ,
Why in the world would you believe what the Garda say without evidence
Anyone can use the website online , you just enter the reg and it clearly shows it was last taxed in 2014 , but no no the Garda are telling the truth,

You mean on the website that states:

"I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker or agent and acting on behalf of my client.

I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without any of the above reasonable causes. If I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring this information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 170 of the Data Protection Act 2018. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry."

Also, the van is no longer registered in UK, it is registered in Wexford.

Why is it not VRT's if the van is registered in Wexford

14-09-2018 12:04pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They aren't doing anything useful though. All they've done is pick a fight with the Gardaí and disrupt traffic. They've also managed to waste hospital resources too. A true accomplishment of uselessness.

I disagree. They've* brought a decent amount of focus on the shortage of rentals and how renters are getting screwed.
For that I can thank them.

*The same crew will of course protest against any developers building or concessions given to landlords in an attempt to get them to provide more accomodation, so I can't have it every way.:pac:

yourdeadwright · 14-09-2018 12:05pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Serious question , how can you be tax compliant if its not taxed ? Wouldn't everyone just buy northern reg cars and drive them around non tax'd ?
So why do Garda impound car's not Tax'd and not VRT'd

If you live and work in NI then you must pay vehicle tax to the NI/UK. If you travel to Ireland for the day you are not obliged to tax your car in Ireland. That's why you can drive up to Newry and do the shopping without having to pay vehicle tax to NI.

If, on the other hand, you live and work in Ireland and drive around in a UK import, you must register it and pay VRT within one month of bringing it in. Then you must pay tax on it.

Gardaí impound vehicles that have no Irish tax but they cannot enforce UK/NI revenue laws.

Latest is the van is registered in Wexford , So should it not be VRT'd and Taxed here, unless its only registered in the last month,

Dravokivich · 14-09-2018 12:06pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where has it been proven?? Any story I've read in the red tops use the word "allegedly" anytime they mention the tax being out.

That's because they can't state it unless someone has been convicted of having it on the road while untaxed.

But still. It's nothing more than a distraction from everything that's led to the van being there. If the protesters left when they were told to, there would have been no van.

Arghus · 14-09-2018 12:08pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Did just that, there are 6 pages of properties.

6 Pages? For Dublin City? The whole of Ireland? You are the first person I've come across that seems to think there's loads of property out there!

Guaranteed bro that once you go past page two, those properties are now only available for rent in name only: they are long gone at this stage, but people just leave them up because they couldn't be bothered removing from the website. There's fck all accommodation out there and loads of people looking for it.

Dravokivich · 14-09-2018 12:09pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I disagree. They've* brought a decent amount of focus on the shortage of rentals and how renters are getting screwed.
For that I can thank them.

*The same crew will of course protest against any developers building or concessions given to landlords in an attempt to get them to provide more accomodation, so I can't have it every way.:pac:

No they haven't.

BBFAN · 14-09-2018 12:09pm

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Ah, so if you capitalise it it just happens?

How do we INCREASE THE SUPPLY? Supply from who - those nasty mean investors and developers who do it for PROFIT (the fcuking cheek of them having a business model)?

or get the government to build them with funds.. FUNDS from where? what funds?

You haven't answered anything, at all.

They start building the houses themselves again. Very simple, it worked in the 80's, it can work again.

Funds can always be found, when they're caught out for a cancer scandal or sex abuse scandal, where do you think that money magically appears from.

Where are your answers?

14-09-2018 12:11pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

No they haven't.

It was on the 9 o clock news last night and on primetime.

BBFAN · 14-09-2018 12:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

jesus what an absolute disaster of a post

And what an intelligent list of suggestions you make. :rolleyes:

McMurphy · 14-09-2018 12:12pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The van was tax and insurance compliant in Ireland. That doesn't mean it was taxed. It wasn't required to be taxed in Ireland and it's tax status in UK/NI is not something the Gardanforce.

This. Thank you.

There's too much emphasis being put on the heap of sh1t van, and whether it was taxed or not, when it doesn't matter one iota if it was taxed in the country it was registered to, that's not the Garda concern, and so they (the gards) statement on its tax status is entirely on point in relation to its status here in Ireland.

It's registration missing, and where it's parked/ bald tyres (how anyone can see the depth of the thread from that pic is another story, but wherever) etc is another story, and does give the impression that the laws in fact are being cherry picked.

The bigger picture though, and possibly a worrying state of things to come is that a group of men, so far no one knows from where (firm or locality) were employed by someone to turn up and enforce a high court order, while the guards were deployed to ensure the peace wad kept in doing so.

I watch a programme often enough called "can't pay? We'll take it away" (it's on Netflix of anyone that is interested wants to watch it)

The show centre's on a firm of bailiffs/sheriffs/ high court enforcement officers, who are deployed all over England and Wales to recover goods/ assets on the foot of high court orders etc.

I've watched almost all seasons at this stage, and have seen numerous evictions/ asset seizes , and how the lads do it.

That usually show up in a van, clearly identify themselves with identification and their names etc and then explain why they're there.

From time to time the police are called with troublesome folk, but its usually dealt with swiftly and effectively.

The lads usually reposess a property, give the evicted instructions on how to try and secure accommodation/ details of why they're turfed out etc, and then all sides move on.

In this instance, we had a group of fellas who arrived in a scruffy looking, not entirely road compliant vehicle, all dressed in black, wearing paramilitary style balaclavas who as of yet, no one knows who they were, who employed their services, or what firm they represented.

Whatever about the lads inside the building who were clearly breaking the law/ defying a court order, the optics of the above in comparison with the professionalism of the UK enforcers isn't good at all.

It is my opinion that the lads we seen, watched on by the states police force was chosen deliberately to try and send some kind of message, and I suspect it'll backfire spectaculary (as they seldom seem to learn)

Thatnastyboy · 14-09-2018 12:14pm

BBFAN wrote: »

They start building the houses themselves again. Very simple, it worked in the 80's, it can work again.

Funds can always be found, when they're caught out for a cancer scandal or sex abuse scandal, where do you think that money magically appears from.

Where are your answers?

I don't have any answers, that's why I asked, doesn't seem like anyone has.

Who's they? They who - they developers or they government? One is funded from private investment, the other must invest from public coffers - what coffers - increased tax? Reduced spending in other areas?

You are surmising, not giving answers, same as everyone else that I have seen.

Taking a pot shot at me is not an answer - capitalising INCREASE THE SUPPLY is not an answer - (see how pot shots don't work)

14-09-2018 12:16pm

BBFAN wrote: »

And what an intelligent list of suggestions you make. :rolleyes:

i set out a reasonable lengthy post a few pages back listing the most obvious reasons why its never going to be as simple as shouting and harrumphing, online or off.

its you claiming there are easy answers.

"just build them" is easy said but unless you have any actual plan to negotiate the legislative, capital, political etc etc barriers to same then please dont feel that repeating it is in any way more helpful than actually acknowledging the difficulties.

it is in fact the opposite.

Dravokivich · 14-09-2018 12:17pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It was on the 9 o clock news last night and on primetime.

It has been covered by them before. This is nothing new to anyone here.

14-09-2018 12:20pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

It has been covered by them before. This is nothing new to anyone here.

It needs to stay on the news because most voters arent renting.

Thats why you see politicians celebrating the fact yesterday that 500 gaffs on the northside of Dublin got denied planning.

Sweet.Science · 14-09-2018 12:25pm

'Just build the houses'

So easy the solution to this

Thatnastyboy · 14-09-2018 12:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

landlords
homeowners not paying their debt
homeowners struggling with mortgage but paying
homeowners making their payments comfortably or with mortgage paid (NOBODY talks about these guys anymore!)
private renters struggling to pay rent but happy renting
private renters struggling to pay rent and save a deposit
renters due to inherit, someday
HAP renters subsidised heavily by the state and waiting for permanent housing
the cohort who feel everyone else should be paying for their 4ever home hun
those housed in hotels and hostels on an emergency basis with no actual alternatives
those housed in hotels and hostels on an emergency basis because they are playing the system and the media to jump ahead of everyone else
the actual homeless
the banking system and everyone reliant on it functioning in our economy
the taxpayer

look, take your pick.

but everyone who wants the housing crisis solved, only wants it solved *for them*.

which will come at the expense of at least several of the other cohorts.
?

Deleted User wrote: »

i set out a reasonable lengthy post a few pages back listing the most obvious reasons why its never going to be as simple as shouting and harrumphing, online or off.

its you claiming there are easy answers.

"just build them" is easy said but unless you have any actual plan to negotiate the legislative, capital, political etc etc barriers to same then please dont feel that repeating it is in any way more helpful than actually acknowledging the difficulties.

it is in fact the opposite.

And a fantastic post it is too, I tried to say this a page or two back, but you had already made my point for me - this is a painfully complex situation.

I'd love to come out with a golden solution that means everyone gets sorted out, but as far as I can see, there is none.

weldoninhio · 14-09-2018 12:42pm

Arghus wrote: »

6 Pages? For Dublin City? The whole of Ireland? You are the first person I've come across that seems to think there's loads of property out there!

Guaranteed bro that once you go past page two, those properties are now only available for rent in name only: they are long gone at this stage, but people just leave them up because they couldn't be bothered removing from the website. There's fck all accommodation out there and loads of people looking for it.

For the country, just as the person I was replying to asked.

I never said there was loads of property out there. I replied to a statement made by someone else.

Arghus · 14-09-2018 12:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

arghus- i find it hard to believe you ever considered housing to have been out of the public eye or not at the front tier of issues politicians knew to be absolutely critical. i dont think stunts like these raise an already-massive issue's profile one iota.

but these stunts do distract attention from the actual issues, to the method and the source of the stunt. if anything, this thread proves that, not that the stunt has worked to improve the situation in any constructive way.

we've had, in the main, two sides arguing here: one supports anything anti-government/capitalist, the other imo takes a more practical view.

but if the methods used hadnt been so c*ntish and the majority of ppl (think the thread bears it out that this is the majority opinion, but feel free to disagree) didnt think from previous experience that those involved were c*nts, then if the question was "is the government doing enough about housing?" or "do you agree there is a housing crisis?" the vast majority would agree the answers

the problem is there are a wide range of complex inputs into that crisis, and most ppl are aware that not all are within the power of a govt to change, simply because fixing the system quickly for one set of people would royally f*ck another large bloc, and the govt hasnt a clear enough vote advantage to lose any large voting bloc in one showy move.

landlords
homeowners not paying their debt
homeowners struggling with mortgage but paying
homeowners making their payments comfortably or with mortgage paid (NOBODY talks about these guys anymore!)
private renters struggling to pay rent but happy renting
private renters struggling to pay rent and save a deposit
renters due to inherit, someday
HAP renters subsidised heavily by the state and waiting for permanent housing
the cohort who feel everyone else should be paying for their 4ever home hun
those housed in hotels and hostels on an emergency basis with no actual alternatives
those housed in hotels and hostels on an emergency basis because they are playing the system and the media to jump ahead of everyone else
the actual homeless
the banking system and everyone reliant on it functioning in our economy
the taxpayer

look, take your pick.

but everyone who wants the housing crisis solved, only wants it solved *for them*.

which will come at the expense of at least several of the other cohorts.

which means blocking traffic, breaking into other people's property, turning up with photographers and your kids at a garda station, etc etc etc is sh1tty, entitled and childish behaviour because the majority of people understand the above situation to be one where these stunts do not help anything, and in fact merely screw over everyone else.

which is why its galling to have the support-every-self-appointed-victim/martyr crew on here as usual flinging the "im alright, jack" line at everyone else.

very few people are alright, jack. but the majority are doing their bit to help themselves and the country, and there's many political students in mao jackets in this thread who think thats worth only a sneer- their heroes have megaphones and dreams baby, and f*ck the working stiff if he dont like it, eh?

Yes, I think the majority opinion on here is that the people involved are c*nuts. But, in fairness, isn't that always the way for After Hours about every political debate: everyone is always a c*nt according to this place. I more or less know what I'm going to read in every hot-topic thread, even before I click into it. Even your use of the tired "students in Mao jackets" and the "martyr crew" tropes is indicative to me that that you're coming at from an entrenched attitude. I know there's nothing I'm going to say here that'll change your mind.

Of course housing has been a political issue for years, but it gets bigger and bigger all the time and I think the government have largely sat in their hands about it for years. Fine Gael have been in Power for seven years and I never got the sense that they were actually serious about doing something until maybe 18 months ago. Feel free to disagree, but I think they were happy enough to keep the issue at relative arms length for a long time. Housing was not as hot a topic politically at the time of the last election, it was there alright, but it'll be a major talking point next time round.

If you don't agree with protests and occupations - and I'm not saying I think they are the be-all and end-all - how do you think people should register their dissatisfaction with the current reality of housing in this country? There is the ballot box of course, but that may only come your way once in several years. Just knuckle down and grumble ineffectually, that old Irish way?

It's not just the so called "work-shy masses" and self appointed martyrs who are feeling the squeeze. Housing is becoming a major issue for all kinds of people. I'm a working male in my early thirties and a lot of my peers are just like me: working hard to make ends meet, with spiralling rent costs and a dwindling supply of available properties. The protests and the occupations are just symptomatic of this aspect of Irish life. But, as usual round here, people refuse to see the woods from the trees - preferring instead to go for the surface level - and rather childlike, I may add - analysis of just calling them "c*nts". Maybe they are c*nts and maybe in some ways their methods are indeed c*ntish, but that doesn't mean that, at some fundamental level, those c*nuts don't have a point.

homerjay2005 · 14-09-2018 12:58pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Is this the one where of you can’t afford to go for a meal out every two weeks or can’t afford a new couch every year you’re in poverty?

I wonder what these people spend their money on instead, wouldn’t be smokes drink or gambling of course, oh I’m not allowed say that blah blah.

Give it over ffs.

This resulted in the measure, originally based on lacking one or more items from an 8-item index, changing to one based on lacking two or more items from the following 11-item index:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

Three indicators are used to measure poverty in Ireland

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

ThunbergsAreGo · 14-09-2018 1:03pm

Haven't had a roast in a month, or gone out in a fortnight

I am impoverished

storker · 14-09-2018 1:07pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So you support criminals.

Is failure to comply with a court order an actual crime? Or a misdemeanor? Not everything that is illegal is a full-blown crime.

In any case, in case you are confused, I don't support, murderers, bank robbers, shoplifters, burglars, muggers, drug dealers or rapists. I do support (depending on the context) civil disobedience but as I said, I do not have a problem with such protesters paying the prescribed penalty for that disobedience (again depending on context), so I say good for them for making their case and getting the publicity they wanted, but at the same time I have no criticism to make about them being evicted.

Raising the question of costs to the property owner is a good point however, and I do not believe he should be left out-of-pocket. For the cost of the eviction he should be reimbursed by the state, and by the protesters for the cost of any vandalism to the property.

Berserker · 14-09-2018 1:13pm

This resulted in the measure, originally based on lacking one or more items from an 8-item index, changing to one based on lacking two or more items from the following 11-item index:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

Three indicators are used to measure poverty in Ireland

Didn't realise we lived in poverty as a household.

- Definitely haven't has a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment.

- Haven't had family or friends for a drink or meal once a month

- Haven't had a roast or equivalent in god knows how long.

- Missus loves a good rummage in charity shops for unworn shoes and clothes.

knipex · 14-09-2018 1:17pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It was on the 9 o clock news last night and on primetime.

And the housing shortage, increasing house prices, and increasing rents were never discussed in the media previously ???

Wheeliebin30 · 14-09-2018 1:31pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Absolutely ridiculous isn’t it.

Ach I despair for this country, brainwashed morons everywhere.

14-09-2018 1:36pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Next up bord gais.

How dare they make a profit off people been cold in the winter.

They should give us gas for free.

Next up, dunnes stores.

Food is a basic human right, how dare they make profit off hungry people.

Let’s occupy dunnes stores.

Awh I dunno anymore, country has lost its mind or maybe just me.

Only 2 strawmen in the one post wheelie? Come on, you can do better than that.

PlaneSpeeking · 14-09-2018 1:40pm

This resulted in the measure, originally based on lacking one or more items from an 8-item index, changing to one based on lacking two or more items from the following 11-item index:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

Three indicators are used to measure poverty in Ireland

I must be on the bones of me arse - I barely crack 2 or 3 of that list!

Poverty - like homelessness - clearly has been redefined.

14-09-2018 1:42pm

the_syco wrote: »

Some people think it's great that amateur landlords are leaving the market, without realising that there is no-one there to now supply rental properties that are needed.

I don't buy this notion that landlords are leaving the market because of any financial damage they are suffering, if that is what you are implying.

Rent and rent yields are higher than ever before, in all urban areas. It's more likely to be the case that accidental landlords are now seeing their opportunity to sell properties they had never intended to keep, and selling them to the likes of vulture funds or the bigger landlords.

In fact, I think the term 'accidental landlord' must surely be redundant. If they haven't sold by now, what are they at?

As for 'amateur landlords', which you specifically refer to, I think we'd all be better off if they left the market to professionals.

irishproduce wrote: »

I tell you what, I am after reading some pr piece from civil liberties this morn.

It isn't just that report which expresses concerns about public order Garda operations.

Josephine Feehily, chairperson of the Policing Authority, has said that the pictures of the Gardaí in balaclavas 'do not inspire confidence', and the Taoiseach has also expressed reservations about this.

The Frederick St protest and reaction

Comments