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BREAKING: Maryland school shooting

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13

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    #62
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    No 9 year old can walk in to a gun shop and buy a gun.
    a 13 year old however...

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/this-13-year-old-couldnt-buy-cigarettes-but-he-could-buy-a-gun-2016-6?r=US&IR=T


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    #63
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    "Thoughts and Prayers and fu*k off and stop annoying us".
    Edited for accuracy.


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    #64
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,626 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    300,000,000 + guns out there. It'd be more than a few gun nuts getting shot.

    You'd hope once the mild mannered americans see innocent policemen and soldiers being shot at by loons over basic checks and registrations they might come to their senses. They seem to respect them more than they do their children


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    #65
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    ABC7's Brad Bell said sources tell him the shooter was a student, as were the two victims. Bell says a school resource officer took action to end the threat and authorities confirmed the incident has been contained.

    http://wjla.com/news/local/officials-shooting-at-great-mills-hs-in-maryland-incident-contained

    Shooter neutralised by staff member? That's awkward.


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    #66
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    riffmongous wrote: »
    You'd hope once the mild mannered americans see innocent policemen and soldiers being shot at by loons over basic checks and registrations they might come to their senses. They seem to respect them more than they do their children


    You'd be surprised how much those mild mannered Americans don't want to give up their guns. Many Americans who don't own guns also support the 2nd Amendment.

    And once again I will repeat - You can be a gun owner and still respect the life of a child. They aren't mutually exclusive.


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    #67
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    and why there will be more of these with no let up

    From guardian https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/20/maryland-high-school-shooting-great-mills

    Last month, the St Mary’s County sheriff’s office said it arrested two teenage boys for “threats of mass violence” and a 39-year-old man on related charges after the teens made threats about a potential school shooting at nearby Leonardtown High.

    Police said they obtained search warrants and found a cache of semi-automatic rifles, handguns and other weapons.

    Great Mills high school has about 1,600 students and is near the Patuxent River Naval Air Station, about 65 miles south-east of Washington DC. St Mary’s County Public Schools first reported the shooting, saying the event was “contained” and the campus was on lockdown.


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    #68
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,626 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    You'd be surprised how much those mild mannered Americans don't want to give up their guns. Many Americans who don't own guns also support the 2nd Amendment.

    These are things we were talking about, basic stuff in most other countries. Anyone willing to go to war over those is mental, afaik no other people have done it.
    - Ban all private gun sales (if you want to sell your gun, you sell it to a dealer)

    - Mandatory registration of all firearms
    -- Including an obligation to report thefts/losses (and penalties if you don't)
    -- Severe penalties for possessing a weapon that is not licenced to you; like 5-10 years in prison.

    - Basic checks and limits on who can buy weapons and how many weapons they can own

    - Random amnesties where people can register / surrender unlicenced weapons without penalty.

    And once again I will repeat - You can be a gun owner and still respect the life of a child. They aren't mutually exclusive.
    Sure I have my own gun, but how can you say those who refuse to do anything to prevent kids being murdered in their own schools a couple of times a year really respects the lives of children? The whole gun culture is rotten over there and until something is done to change it we'll just see report after report of kids being killed followed by the usual excuses and empty promises to focus on mental health etc. There was a story only a few days ago about a 9 year old boy getting a gun and shooting his 13 year old sister over an argument about a game controller, that is just messed up, and until Americans learn to truly respect guns and their children it's just going to keep happening


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    #69
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    riffmongous wrote: »
    These are things we were talking about, basic stuff in most other countries. Anyone willing to go to war over those is mental, afaik no other people have done it.

    Having a gun is a right in America. When you talk about banning guns, you are talking about removing a right. Plenty of wars have been fought over people losing rights.
    Sure I have my own gun, but how can you say those who refuse to do anything to prevent kids being murdered in their own schools a couple of times a year really respects the lives of children?
    And if you were in America, would giving up your gun save any of those kids? I doubt it as you aren't likely to go shooting up a school. And that's the same for nearly every gun owner in America.
    The whole gun culture is rotten over there and until something is done to change it we'll just see report after report of kids being killed followed by the usual excuses and empty promises to focus on mental health etc.
    I agree that it's too easy for a mental person to get a gun over there. There needs to be more control on who gets access to guns.

    There was a story only a few days ago about a 9 year old boy getting a gun and shooting his 13 year old sister over an argument about a game controller, that is just messed up, and until Americans learn to truly respect guns and their children it's just going to keep happening
    Laws aren't always the answer to every problem. Believe it or not but there are laws already in place to keep guns away from kids. Whoever was in charge of these kids (most likely parents) will be in trouble with the law over this incident.


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    #70
    Pepefrogok
    Site Banned Posts: 406 ✭✭Pepefrogok


    This went quite quickly?!?!?


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    #71
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    jjbrien wrote: »
    It will take a high profile politicians kid to get killed sadly to fix their problem.

    Yeah. I'm pretty sure if, like, FOUR PRESIDENTS had been killed, they would have sorted it out pretty quickly.

    Hey, wait a minute.........


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    #72
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    BattleCorp wrote: »

    And once again I will repeat - You can be a gun owner and still respect the life of a child. They aren't mutually exclusive.

    "Hic. Great night lads. (pffrrt) You musht be, you musht be (hic) my bestest friends in all the world (paaarrp). Come, one. I'll give you all..(hic)..give you all, a lift home in my SUV"

    "Come on now, Snickers. You're pissed. You can't get behind a wheel in that state!" :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    "But I love my kids!!" :mad:

    "Oh well in that case. I'll take the front seat. Cheers"


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    #73
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Gravelly wrote: »
    I get the "gun nuts, can't have nice things, headcases" stuff, honestly I do. But it won't progress things one iota. There is no way, absolutely none, that any law banning guns, or access to guns, can pass in the United States. Europeans can wail and cry as much as we like, it just won't happen. There would be civil war if any politician tried, not that any would, because they know that.

    So, if we leave the emotion aside, how does one address gun violence in the USA, while accepting the reality that a ban or restriction can never happen in the medium to long term?

    New handgun registrations were banned in Washington DC for over 30 years from 1976.
    Someone eventually brought a constitutional challenge but there wasn't exactly protests ongoing all the time.

    Carrying of guns is effectively banned as well in NYC for the majority of people.

    Nobody expects it to be turned off overnight. But steps in the right direction can be made. And then over the course of a generation, maybe it can be solved.


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    #74
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    New handgun registrations were banned in Washington DC for over 30 years from 1976.
    Someone eventually brought a constitutional challenge but there wasn't exactly protests ongoing all the time.

    Carrying of guns is effectively banned as well in NYC for the majority of people.

    Nobody expects it to be turned off overnight. But steps in the right direction can be made. And then over the course of a generation, maybe it can be solved.
    Donald you're coherent, are you feeling ok!?


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    #75
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Donald you're coherent, are you feeling ok!?


    Have been on the crack pipe all day


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    #76
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    rgodard80a wrote: »
    It's in their constitution to bear arms.
    However if you could absolutely lock down the supply of ammo, it might be a workaround.

    The lives of kids is more important than some outdated idea written into the constitution a few hundred years ago.


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    #77
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Thoughts and prayers to the victims.


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    #78
    FCIM
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭FCIM


    rgodard80a wrote: »
    It's in their constitution to bear arms.
    However if you could absolutely lock down the supply of ammo, it might be a workaround.

    I'd be interested to see exactly what was in the consitution. Surely if it is a right to bear "arms" then a distinction could be made between bearing arms in terms of a baseball bat and bearing arms in terms of a kaleshnikov or am I wrong that arms is a synonym for weapon and not gun? Still not ideal, and I would still prefer the situation we have here where bringing a baseball bat into a pub as an example isn't tolerated but I'd much rather someone come at me with one of those than with a weapon that is really only intended for armed forces usage.


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    #79
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I think that America values gun ownership more than lives. It's evident.


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    #80
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I think that America values gun ownership more than lives. It's evident.

    I'm like a broken record here. Why can't someone own a gun and still value life?

    If I own a gun, does that mean I support school shootings?


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    #81
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm like a broken record here. Why can't someone own a gun and still value life?

    If I own a gun, does that mean I support school shootings?

    No, but you don't value life if you live in a country that has huge problems with gun violence and resist efforts to fix it. Gun ownership is currently a right, but in America this right is ending lives.


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    #82
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,626 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Having a gun is a right in America. When you talk about banning guns, you are talking about removing a right. Plenty of wars have been fought over people losing rights.

    And if you were in America, would giving up your gun save any of those kids? I doubt it as you aren't likely to go shooting up a school. And that's the same for nearly every gun owner in America.

    I agree that it's too easy for a mental person to get a gun over there. There needs to be more control on who gets access to guns.


    Laws aren't always the answer to every problem. Believe it or not but there are laws already in place to keep guns away from kids. Whoever was in charge of these kids (most likely parents) will be in trouble with the law over this incident.

    But we are not talking about banning guns, we were talking about restricting them and registering them. And the right to have a gun is not absolute, there have always been restrictions; children, felons, etc. Of course if you are a felon you can always just buy one privately in some states without a background check


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    #83
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    seems to be a lad carrying out a parcel bomb campaign in Texas the last few weeks, I think two dead and five injured in four explosions so far, with another two exploding and one unexploded device found today.

    Not sure if its a big thing, or just a regular thing ... just reading it now, so my facts are probably wrong

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/austin-bomb-san-antonio-fedex.html


    Edit. added link, updated injuries, one of the explosions today is unrelated, it seems


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    #84
    StinkyMunkey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭StinkyMunkey


    I really thought Trump might actually take a leap and introduce tougher gun laws after last big massacre in a school. But tbh, I don't think any new token laws will make one iota of difference.

    Cycle continues, and will always continue.


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    #85
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Having a gun is a right in America. When you talk about banning guns, you are talking about removing a right. Plenty of wars have been fought over people losing rights.

    And if you were in America, would giving up your gun save any of those kids? I doubt it as you aren't likely to go shooting up a school. And that's the same for nearly every gun owner in America.

    I agree that it's too easy for a mental person to get a gun over there. There needs to be more control on who gets access to guns.


    Laws aren't always the answer to every problem. Believe it or not but there are laws already in place to keep guns away from kids. Whoever was in charge of these kids (most likely parents) will be in trouble with the law over this incident.

    You know what's also a right in America?

    The right to life. Oh, and that's also in this Constitution you folks arguing against gun control keep banging on and on and on about.

    I know which right I'd be arguing is more important.

    'No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'


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    #86
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    What about me right testicle?


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    #87
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Necrominus wrote: »
    You know what's also a right in America?

    The right to life. Oh, and that's also in this Constitution you folks arguing against gun control keep banging on and on and on about.

    I know which right I'd be arguing is more important.

    'No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'

    Well, you're not entirely getting that right. The US Constitution works a little differently to the Irish one, as it is a founding document for what the US government can or cannot do, whilst the Irish one is more applicable to the rights of the citizens. Note that it states that "No state shall deprive"... Doesn't say anything about private persons. Although that is also, obviously, against both legislation and common law, it's actually not a Constitutional thing.

    So, the 'right to free speech', in the constitution for example, is actually only a protection from government action. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

    2A is a protection from government action "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    4A is similarly a restriction on government action. "The right of the People to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,"

    And so on.

    Of course, there is still a pre-existing right to life, as there is a pre-existing right to arms. The US constitution doesn't grant them, it merely prohibits the government from denying them.


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    #88
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    has anyone argued that "The right of the people to be secure in their persons" has as much validity or relevance as "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" ?


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    #89
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    America doesn't care, why should anyone else? Seriously it's tragic that there have been more school shootings but I'm.kinda meh about them now. They live with guns they die with guns. Guns are an integral part of their society, a society which they chose to live in and seem to have little interest to change.


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    #90
    GTGTGTGT
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭GTGTGTGT


    I never get how people argue it's the Constitution it can't be changed. Considering at one point it was pro slavery. It was fine to change that but not this.


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    #91
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    GTGTGTGT wrote: »
    I never get how people argue it's the Constitution it can't be changed. Considering at one point it was pro slavery. It was fine to change that but not this.

    Not that it has anything to do with this conversation but there was a hell of a lot of resistance to getting rid of slavery. But slavery is completely wrong. Owning a gun isn't necessarily wrong. They aren't the same thing.

    By the way, who here is arguing that the American Constitution can't be changed? I certainly am not arguing that.

    But you have to adhere to the law as it is, not how you'd like it to be. If it's changed, so be it. Is there the will to remove the 2nd Amendment from the US Constitution right now, I don't think so.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No, but you don't value life if you live in a country that has huge problems with gun violence and resist efforts to fix it. Gun ownership is currently a right, but in America this right is ending lives.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I don't agree with that statement. Just because you own a gun and don't want to give it up, that doesn't mean that you don't value life.

    I think you'll find that a lot of gun owners (myself included) are in favour of some sort of gun control. I'm not in favour of banning guns, I'm in favour of doing the utmost to make sure they don't fall into the wrong hands.
    riffmongous wrote: »
    But we are not talking about banning guns, we were talking about restricting them and registering them. And the right to have a gun is not absolute, there have always been restrictions; children, felons, etc. Of course if you are a felon you can always just buy one privately in some states without a background check

    I'm actually in agreement with you here. I think guns should be restricted to those who are of sound mind, good character etc. I also believe there should be background checks etc.


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