Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

It wasnt me123 · 26-05-2018 5:47pm

Noveight wrote: »

Now that the Yes vote has gone through, is it expected to be long before abortions are taking place in Ireland?

Legislation to pass before the Autumn.

I hope you and yours, like me and mine never know when abortions are taking place in Ireland. Hopefully it will never affect us.

For the women making that choice, they can discuss it with their gps and anyone else they like to without you and I needing to know anything about it but being sure in the knowledge that whoever has to make that decision will be receiving good quality medical treatment, legally.

Pherekydes · 26-05-2018 5:47pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Zero deaths by pregnancy complications would be acceptable to me. Do you have a figure or do you answer every question with another question in an attempt to dodge answering?

Sheeps · 26-05-2018 5:48pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

Thanks.

Noveight · 26-05-2018 5:50pm

BarleySweets wrote: »

Why don’t you just stop virtue signaling and keep your nose out of other people’s business?

Let these grown adults celebrate the referendum result however they want.

I was replying to another poster and in no way trying to signal my virtues. Furthermore, anything uploaded to social media is indeed intended to be everyone's business. So you suggesting for me to "mind my own" is not only inaccurate, but also tinged with hypocrisy. Don't let that deduce from the thanks you'll get from mentioning virtue signalling though.

Shurimgreat · 26-05-2018 5:50pm

Billy86 wrote: »

There ya go, didn't take long for the mask to come off.

No, I picked from the listed as Ireland was - yes for the mothers life at risk, no to everything else. Saudi Arabia allows abortion when the mother's physical health (not just life) or mental health are at risk. Ireland does not. Try again.

See, you keep trying that one but I keep reminding you that you will have to lump them in with North America, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, basically all of Europe and so on. You really are not doing yourself any favours here.

Here's your full and comprehensive list again, of countries with the most comparable abortion laws to us at present (thankfully we will be leaving this bracket in the coming months). I'll underline Venezuela this time, just so you don't miss it again. Like I said feel free to cling to Andorra or San Marino if you wish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

According to the poster who this started in, these are the bastions of civilizaton the rest of the world should be looking towards. Do you agree?

Ok your posts are embarrassing at this point. I don't exactly know what point you are trying to make. In fact I don't think you know either. It seems to be that easy availability of abortion is the mark of a civilised nation. For the record, Cuba, North Korea and China have legal abortion on request. India has a less liberal regime but abortion is widely available, something that played a part in the estimated 60 million femicides of unborn females in that country according to some studies. Iran and Saudi Arabia had abortion laws more liberal than ours. These are not countries we should aspire to be like and I feel embarrassed for you if you think we should look up to them in any way. I've proved to you that abortion is not the hallmark of a civilised country and in the case of India it has encouraged even more backwardness when it comes to attitudes to female unborn.

I didn't even mention such bastions of modern civilisation as Sudan, Ethiopia or Kenya and several more African countries.

You've lost the argument, accept it and then we can move on.

Noveight · 26-05-2018 5:50pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Legislation to pass before the Autumn.

I hope you and yours, like me and mine never know when abortions are taking place in Ireland. Hopefully it will never affect us.

For the women making that choice, they can discuss it with their gps and anyone else they like to without you and I needing to know anything about it but being sure in the knowledge that whoever has to make that decision will be receiving good quality medical treatment, legally.

Indeed, hear hear.

Nettle Soup · 26-05-2018 5:51pm

Embarrassing for Donegal. They wont even wait for them to finish counting.

tigger123 · 26-05-2018 5:53pm

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Embarrassing for Donegal. They wont even wait for them to finish counting.

Scarlet for them.

And for their Ma for having them.

Water John · 26-05-2018 5:53pm

Patrick, much older than you, male FYI. Not aware of the mother and baby homes really but nurses who are of my generation recall it in the maternity hospitals.
Most were given up for adoption. This altered radically, in the 80s.
Contraception was always a live issue. It was on this, Irish women divided from the RCC. Remember Charlie Haughey's, Irish solution for an Irish problem, where only bonefide married couples could get a prescription from their doctor.
Charlie being the huge irony.

BarleySweets · 26-05-2018 5:55pm

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Thank you BarleySweets, that's exactly what I meant but you put it much more succinctly than I could. I was working at the referendum yesterday so my brain is mush today.

I said all along it would be 70/30
Yesterday I had my doubts as the no voters were vocal in their no (not rude or anything just happy to talk about their vote) and I was worried.

I'm overjoyed today.

Sorry I meant to actually say that I got your meaning perfectly. What you wrote was grand, the replyer seemed to be intentionally taking you out of context. So I just rewrote exactly what you said

Fair play on the 70/30 call, you were on the money!

Nettle Soup · 26-05-2018 5:56pm

The result is a mirror of the 1983 vote. The country has matured so much in 35 years and Rome no longer rules. Friends texting me from abroad to congratulate.

Great day. Well done Ireland.

ArmaniJeanss · 26-05-2018 5:58pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

C
And as a second question, do you remember anything around contraception or homosexuality, and any sort of cultural change in your lifetime prior to the rapid acceleration of liberalism in the 2000s?

I'm not sure how much of the mad stuff you know of.

Like do you know the story of Richard Bransons Virgin Megastore on the Quays beside the Halfpenny Bridge?
In 1990 they started selling their Mates brand condoms with any profits going to the Irish Family Planning Association. The authorities, at the urgings of many of the usual faces you saw in this campaign brought them to court and they got fined £500 and threatened a jail sentence if they continued. Virgin/IFPA appealed and on the day of the appeal Branson himself flew into the country to take responsibility. Bono insisted on paying the increased fine and costs after the appeal failed.

The sheer madness of the above story (which is completely true) should give you some background to this country in the year you were born.

jimmycrackcorm · 26-05-2018 6:00pm

hatrickpatrick wrote:

What I'm basically trying to get to the bottom of is how this could have been simultaneously such a huge cultural thing in Ireland and yet also something which shocked so many people when the reports came out. Did my family and my school teachers choose to shield my generation from this awfulness and only tell us the good things about our country, or had it genuinely just slipped out of the national psyche and been honestly overlooked as something that was important to talk about and acknowledge?

There was no discussion in the 80s because there was no equivalent of social media or mechanism to openly group views.

Fr_Dougal · 26-05-2018 6:01pm

BarleySweets wrote: »

Sorry I meant to actually say that I got your meaning perfectly. What you wrote was grand, the replyer seemed to be intentionally taking you out of context. So I just rewrote exactly what you said

Fair play on the 70/30 call, you were on the money!

No, you’re wrong.

retro:electro · 26-05-2018 6:01pm

captbarnacles wrote: »

I've had enough of Katie Ascough already.

She should marry Ronan Mullen and move to Donegal

26-05-2018 6:01pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There was no discussion in the 80s because there was no equivalent of social media or mechanism to openly group views.

Also as far as I can remember there were literally zero foreigners here compared to today, and only British media. Outside influences were much less.

jimmycrackcorm · 26-05-2018 6:04pm

Santino Rich Cloak wrote:

Simon Harris said they hope to have legislation passed by autumn

Prepared for the Autumn. It could will drag out once the current hoopla dies down.

SSM is a good guideline for timeframe, but that wasn't anywhere as contentious when it comes down to the details.

Water John · 26-05-2018 6:05pm

We did converse, prior to social media.
It reminds me of Oliver Flanagan (Chalie's father) saying, there was no sex in Ireland , before television.

It wasnt me123 · 26-05-2018 6:08pm

hatrickpatrick

People knew what was happening but the hold of the RCC and curtain twitchers was such that you just didn't talk about it.

My father, who lives in Australia, phoned last week and told me about a story at Rockwell College, Cashel when he worked there as a boy of about 14, so approximately 70 years ago. He came across a baby, hidden under weeds and such on the land of the college (near the lake for those who know the area). My father told his mum who said something like never mention it again and tell no-one. My father thinks the father of the baby was a father (ie a priest).

Now last week was the first time he has ever mentioned it since. That was the type of place Ireland was - beautiful on the surface, but with an underlying ugliness. The shadow of this ugliness is finally lifting.

Billy86 · 26-05-2018 6:08pm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Ok your posts are embarrassing at this point. I don't exactly know what point you are trying to make. In fact I don't think you know either. It seems to be that easy availability of abortion is the mark of a civilised nation. For the record, Cuba, North Korea and China have legal abortion on request. India has a less liberal regime but abortion is widely available, something that played a part in the estimated 60 million femicides of unborn females in that country according to some studies. Iran and Saudi Arabia had abortion laws more liberal than ours. These are not countries we should aspire to be like and I feel embarrassed for you if you think we should look up to them in any way. I've proved to you that abortion is not the hallmark of a civilised country and in the case of India it has encouraged even more backwardness when it comes to attitudes to female unborn.

You've lost the argument, accept it and then we can move on.

You go ahead and keep trying to make the same false statements over and over again... sure it worked wonderfully for the no crowd yesterday, didn't it?

Meanwhile, Graces7's point was that Ireland's current abortion laws represent "civilization". And I have shown you ALL of the countries that have the most similar laws. If you want to keep going fine, but you've yet to actually back up the point that any of the countries in that list are the peak of civilisation. In fact you even used what you called a "sh1thole" country as an example in Venezuela, which it turns out has remarkably similar laws to our current ones. You lost the argument when you were unable to actually point out how the list of countries I gave you were beacons of civility to back up Graces7's argument (hint: because they're not).

Countries with free abortion rights
Canada, United States, Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Slovakia, Ukraine, Denmark, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Greece, Italy, Kosovo, Montenegro, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Republic of Macedonia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland, Mozambique, Tunisia, South Africa, Cape Verde, China, North Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Cambodia, Singapore, Vietnam, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Georgia, Turkey, Cuba, Guyana, Uruguay, Mexico, Australia

Are these some backwards countries in there? Sure, along with almost the entire developed world. Now let's go back and compare with those who share abortion laws most similar to ours at present once more:

All countries with abortion laws very similar to Ireland's:
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

If you had to enter a lottery to live in one country from either list... which list would you prefer to be on? You don't need to answer that if you don't want to because we both know the answer already.

It wasnt me123 · 26-05-2018 6:12pm

retro:electro wrote: »

She should marry Ronan Mullen and move to Donegal

I dont' think she is his type. John McGuirk might be more his type IMO

The 8th amendment was never going to be a problem to him

erica74 · 26-05-2018 6:12pm

After eights being handed out at Dublin Castle:pac:

Loafing Oaf · 26-05-2018 6:13pm

retro:electro wrote: »

She should marry Ronan Mullen and move to Donegal

I dunno, they could end up enacting Ireland's version of On Chesil Beach, if you're familiar with that story...

CruelCoin · 26-05-2018 6:14pm

Sheeps wrote: »

How many women die every year from pregnancy complications in Ireland?

It's done, it's over. Why are you still going on like its still in play.

qwerty ui op · 26-05-2018 6:15pm

"The secret No voter will surge to victory like Trump and Brexit, the gutter tactics of the abortionists have swayed moderates to vote No or abstain. Most political scientists I know are predicting a No victory. "~~Doltanian

spookwoman · 26-05-2018 6:17pm

It's Official Its YES!
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1000425175177924608

Doctor Jimbob · 26-05-2018 6:18pm

retro:electro wrote: »

She should marry Ronan Mullen and move to Donegal

Please no. We have more than enough of their type up here.

retro:electro · 26-05-2018 6:19pm

erica74 wrote: »

After eights being handed out at Dublin Castle:pac:

Hilarious!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 26-05-2018 6:21pm

Why does it seem that Donegal goes against the National result in every referendum? What is the contrary streak?

Jim Bob Scratcher · 26-05-2018 6:22pm

Donegal lol

vg88 · 26-05-2018 6:23pm

Barbara Melted Bassoon wrote: »

Why does it seem that Donegal goes against the National result in every referendum? What is the contrary streak?

Probably as most younger voters would have left donegal to go work in cities in Ireland IMO.

freshpopcorn · 26-05-2018 6:24pm

I'm in Cork East and we always seem to be the last area in!

Billy86 · 26-05-2018 6:24pm

Barbara Melted Bassoon wrote: »

Why does it seem that Donegal goes against the National result in every referendum? What is the contrary streak?

They went YES in 2015 to be fair (albeit by 0.1% in the northern part!). I don't know the area well but know a few people from there who claim it's got an unnoticed but quite large number of essentially fundamentalist religious types, which might play a role.

seachto7 · 26-05-2018 6:25pm

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

Graces7 · 26-05-2018 6:25pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There you go

Healy Rae's
Kerry 58.3/41.7

McGrath
Tipp 59.1/40.9

Lower than the Average that is coming in right now at 67/32

Mayo low too; I think the highest NO

CruelCoin · 26-05-2018 6:26pm

Full table of results here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/abortion-referendum/results

Top 5 Yes votes were all in dublin.

Donegal looks very lonely in that list....3rd lowest turnout too.

It can't all be auld lads not able to make it to the polling station.

Doctor Jimbob · 26-05-2018 6:26pm

Billy86 wrote: »

They went YES in 2015 to be fair (albeit by 0.1% in the northern part!). I don't know the area well but know a few people from there who claim it's got an unnoticed but quite large number of essentially fundamentalist religious types, which might play a role.

I'm from the area and that's pretty much it. There's an older crowd of serious Bible bashers that pop out of the woodwork every time something like this comes up.

The Backwards Man · 26-05-2018 6:26pm

Barbara Melted Bassoon wrote: »

Why does it seem that Donegal goes against the National result in every referendum? What is the contrary streak?

Few things;

Some people vote against the government regardless

Some people vote with the local FF TD regardless.

Some people just don't think about what they're voting on regardless.

Some people are just contrary fcukers, regardless.

Some still believe whatever the priest (or the minister) tells them, regardless.

Some of the younger people vote in the constituencies they live and work in.

Very little campaigning for the Yes side here also, for various reasons.

Still, there was a lot more No voters in Dublin than in Donegal. Regardless.

CruelCoin · 26-05-2018 6:27pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

Its actually one of the highest turnouts for a referendum.

It might not sound like much, but it's actually pretty good

Graces7 · 26-05-2018 6:27pm

Billy86 wrote: »

They went YES in 2015 to be fair (albeit by 0.1% in the northern part!). I don't know the area well but know a few people from there who claim it's got an unnoticed but quite large number of essentially fundamentalist religious types, which might play a role.

Mayo too. We have fewer incomers and fewer big cities. Kerry not far behind

Noveight · 26-05-2018 6:27pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no?

Would've thought so too, evidently not however. An interesting statistic.

ohnonotgmail · 26-05-2018 6:29pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

4% higher turnout than the marriage referendum and a vote of 65% was only dreamed of by the Yes side. So not a disappointment.

Billy86 · 26-05-2018 6:30pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

Nah, not really. I was hoping we could push for 70% turnout but 64% is still pretty good and above 2015's 60.5%, while we've been told not only from the no campaign but also from the media that this would probably be very close to 50/50 for quite a while now.

66.4% is a complete and utter walkover and I'm sure there are plenty on the no side who were gearing themselves up for a "53% isn't a REAL majority so shouldn't count" hope of scuppering/delaying things that are now at a bit of a loss. I'm actually very confident about that as they were trying to push the same only earlier in this thread because on exit polls 12 weeks "only" got 52% (e.g. majority) support.

eviltwin · 26-05-2018 6:30pm

I was at the Savita mural in Dublin today. It was incredibly moving. People had written little messages and stuck them on the wall. Most of them from adults but the one that struck me the most was written in a child's handwriting. It was addressed to Savita and said "I wish you could see this". I hope today's result give her family some comfort. This country will never forget her.

mirrorwall14 · 26-05-2018 6:31pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

Nope, this is very good. You'll never hit even close to 100% turnout on the current system. I moved my vote last minute on the supplementary register, received polling cards to both addresses. On top of that I got a polling card to an address in my parents, where I haven't been registered in 9 years (and didn't receive a card in previous years there).

I only voted once obviously but there's two votes that couldn't be fulfilled

BarleySweets · 26-05-2018 6:31pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Please no. We have more than enough of their type up here.

Please yes. Make a Kardashian’s type TV series following them too!

Trasna1 · 26-05-2018 6:32pm

seachto7 wrote: »

64% turnout is disappointing no? And a 66% Yes is also disappointing.... at least it passed

64% is quite high. In reality it's probably a much higher percentage of the electorate that actually live in Ireland but given that the register is such a mess, that can depress the apparent turnout percentage.

seachto7 · 26-05-2018 6:32pm

Noveight wrote: »

Would've thought so too, evidently not however. An interesting statistic.

36% of people either couldn’t care, were on holidays or living abroad ? A higher turnout would have been encouraging.
A lower turnout for the marriage referendum suggests Ireland isn’t as liberal and progressive as it would like to think. Or else the me me me generation just couldn’t care about others.

Shurimgreat · 26-05-2018 6:32pm

Billy86 wrote: »

You go ahead and keep trying to make the same false statements over and over again... sure it worked wonderfully for the no crowd yesterday, didn't it?

Meanwhile, Graces7's point was that Ireland's current abortion laws represent "civilization". And I have shown you ALL of the countries that have the most similar laws. If you want to keep going fine, but you've yet to actually back up the point that any of the countries in that list are the peak of civilisation. In fact you even used what you called a "sh1thole" country as an example in Venezuela, which it turns out has remarkably similar laws to our current ones. You lost the argument when you were unable to actually point out how the list of countries I gave you were beacons of civility to back up Graces7's argument (hint: because they're not).

Countries with free abortion rights
Canada, United States, Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Slovakia, Ukraine, Denmark, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Greece, Italy, Kosovo, Montenegro, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Republic of Macedonia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland, Mozambique, Tunisia, South Africa, Cape Verde, China, North Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Cambodia, Singapore, Vietnam, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Georgia, Turkey, Cuba, Guyana, Uruguay, Mexico, Australia

Are these some backwards countries in there? Sure, along with almost the entire developed world. Now let's go back and compare with those who share abortion laws most similar to ours at present once more:

All countries with abortion laws very similar to Ireland's:
Angola, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Gabon, São Tomé and Príncipe, South Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Lesotho, Djibouti, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Somalia, Iraq, Andorra, San Marino, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Lesotho, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, Suriname, Venezuela, Tonga, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Palau.

If you had to enter a lottery to live in one country from either list... which list would you prefer to be on? You don't need to answer that if you don't want to because we both know the answer already.

Again India and China are bad choices due to reasons of female infanticide in these countries. Very bad choices. I will post seperately on the topic.

You are making a terrible argument for abortion by using countries like India and China as examples.

You also fail to understand that most of the civilised countries with abortion such as Japan are struggling with low birth rates which will have disastrous consequences in future decades.

Free abortion rights or not. You've consistantly failed to prove abortion means civilisation. You only have to look at the rates of female infanticide in India and China to see this.

Billy86 · 26-05-2018 6:33pm

I only caught it in the background but I THINK I just heard Mattie McGrath say "yes of course" he will respect the vote and work towards enacting it "because I am elected in a democracy".

Ronan Mullen should take note.

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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