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New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

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    #32
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    monument wrote: »
    Mobike has not yet announce that they will launch here, Bleeperbike at least are trying with a plan for stricter and clearer parking rules and staff patrolling the city.

    Using Mobike as the de facto standard. Bleeper are re-using their concept (which they maybe copied too IIRC).


    DBs were paid for mainly by the advertising deal + a rake of DCC money. Bleeper arent that much more expensive and yet want to staff patrols to keep them clear? Wont be too many staff spread to 18hrs a day 7 days a week on a euro a trip.


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    #33
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    ED E wrote: »
    Its not that, they would totally clog the city.

    The city is currently clogged and brought to a standstill by cars. It's scarcely likely that it would be more clogged by people using a bike share, even if every single car driver took to the bikes.

    I find it odd that the council opposes the idea of a private company advertising a service.


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    #34
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i can understand a certain uneasiness over a commercial venture which requires space on public footpaths and the like. any cafe or other vendor which wants to use public footpaths requires a licence from the council.
    the comment about an unfair advantage may - or may not - suggest that other operators have been planning similar, but have been consulting with the council on how best to proceed.


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    #35
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    FITE!

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0619/883872-dublin-bike-scheme/
    A company which is setting up a new bike-sharing scheme in Dublin is going ahead with its service despite warnings from Dublin City Council that it could seize the bicycles.


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    #36
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    buffalo wrote: »
    FITE!

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0619/883872-dublin-bike-scheme/

    I'd be interested to know on what legal basis the council think they can seize BB's property, seeing as they haven't passed any bye laws yet? Most of the council's complaints about insurance, advertising etc seem pretty bogus.

    There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).


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    #37
    TopOfTheHill
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭TopOfTheHill


    From the links ....

    "RTÉ News understands there are several other companies looking at setting up stationless bike-sharing schemes in Dublin this year but Bleeperbike is the first to go live."

    and

    "In a statement issued on Friday the council said the launch by Bleeperbike was "premature... and may secure an unfair advantage over other potential operators who are prepared to work closely with Dublin City Council".

    Not very business like looking for an advantage now is it .....


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    #38
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    loyatemu wrote: »
    I'd be interested to know on what legal basis the council think they can seize BB's property, seeing as they haven't passed any bye laws yet? Most of the council's complaints about insurance, advertising etc seem pretty bogus.

    There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).

    Here's the relevant legislation;

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/14/section/71/enacted/en/html

    Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.


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    #39
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Here's the relevant legislation;

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/14/section/71/enacted/en/html

    Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.

    Not to mention the hundreds of sandwich boards outside shops and cafes. Should we remove these obstacles to aid wheelchair users and visually impaired people? Nope, let's push them into the cycle lanes! :rolleyes:


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    #40
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    buffalo wrote: »
    Not to mention the hundreds of sandwich boards outside shops and cafes. Should we remove these obstacles to aid wheelchair users and visually impaired people? Nope, let's push them into the cycle lanes! :rolleyes:

    You do often hear or read about businesses in the city having their signs or street furniture removed by the council for being on footpaths and the like without proper permission to do so.

    My own opinion is that I don't think that this bike share company should be allowed to clog up public bike parking, it's not as if there's a glut of proper facilities as it is.


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    #41
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    ThisRegard wrote:
    My own opinion is that I don't think that this bike share company should be allowed to clog up public bike parking, it's not as if there's a glut of proper facilities as it is.


    My own opinion is that I don't think taxis should clog up bus lanes either.

    I do think that bike share companies should be able to use public bike parking. I wouldn't use them for my own bike because of the fish of theft, and like DB bikes, I'd find it better to use shared bikes.


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    #42
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Presumably they will just be seizing ones that are parked illegally. Most people are at least somewhat concerned about where they leave their own personal property but I don't have the same faith as the people operating this scheme seem to that a points system will stop people leaving these bikes in annoying places. There are plenty of places where you are not supposed to lock your bike and where it is inconsiderate to do so. I think it is certain that this will massively increase the amount of illegal and inconsiderate bike parking.

    I guess we'll see how it turns out but I think the people who are assuming this will "make cycling more efficient" and generally be a great thing for the city before we see how it will actually work are terribly naive. There is a known problem in China with schemes like this and I don't think "we'll ask our users not to do this and we'll have points" is a good enough plan to prevent this. I'll go out on a limb and say that the claim that one of their staff will never be more than 5 minutes away from any of their bikes is a blatant lie. This is the issue with these so called disruptive technology companies, they don't follow the rules because they don't think they apply and they are perfectly happy to simply lie about what they are doing.

    The people who claimed that the Dublin Bikes would end up in the canals were wrong because the Dublin Bikes operators took measures to ensure this wasn't going to happen. I don't see any credible measures being taken by this company to prevent the sort of situation occurring in some Chinese cities.


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    #43
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    I, for one, am looking forward to running the gauntlet of DCC Bike Catchers as they try to haul me off a BleeperBike and confiscate it. I really really hope they will be using giant butterfly nets to do the catching.


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    #44
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    Presumably they will just be seizing ones that are parked illegally. Most people are at least somewhat concerned about where they leave their own personal property but I don't have the same faith as the people operating this scheme seem to that a points system will stop people leaving these bikes in annoying places. There are plenty of places where you are not supposed to lock your bike and where it is inconsiderate to do so. I think it is certain that this will massively increase the amount of illegal and inconsiderate bike parking.

    What exactly is "illegal" bike parking - you see signs along the lines of "don't lock bikes to these railings" but that's mostly on private property. Is it legal to lock your bike to a lampost, signpost or tree? DCC generally won't remove a bike unless it's really causing an obstruction.


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    #45
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.
    the council may argue that they already have systems in place to tackle illegal parking (however effective you think this may be); but where is the line between what action a dublin parking enforcement official can take, vs. what a garda can take, against illegally parked cars?

    there's a little bit of a whiff off this from both sides - if i was launching a commercial service which required parking vehicles on public footpaths, i think i'd have contacted the council first to ensure there was no potential issue.


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    #46
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    loyatemu wrote: »
    What exactly is "illegal" bike parking

    http://www.thejournal.ie/bleeper-bikes-dublin-3448895-Jun2017/

    “It is an offence under Section 71 of the Roads Act 1993 to place unlicensed items in the public footpath/roadway,” the council said.
    71.—(1) (a) Any person who, without lawful authority or the consent of a road authority—

    (i) erects, places or retains a sign on a public road, or

    (ii) erects, places or retains on a public road any caravan, vehicle or other structure or thing (whether on wheels or not) used for the purposes of advertising, the sale of goods, the provision of services or other similar purpose,

    shall be guilty of an offence.

    (b) A consent under paragraph (a) may be given by the road authority subject to such conditions, restrictions or requirements as it thinks fit and any person who fails to comply with such conditions, restrictions or requirements shall be guilty of an offence.

    So a person who places a thing which provides a service or which advertises a service without consent from the road authority [council] is committing an offence.

    ISTR various bikedorks on here asserting previously that (a) the footpad is technically "on the public road" (b) the council is the road authority in the city.


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    #47
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    loyatemu wrote: »
    What exactly is "illegal" bike parking - you see signs along the lines of "don't lock bikes to these railings" but that's mostly on private property. Is it legal to lock your bike to a lampost, signpost or tree? DCC generally won't remove a bike unless it's really causing an obstruction.

    Yes, private property, which I am pretty sure includes bus stops. The city is full of railings and poles which are on private property or are private property.

    It is apparently legal to lock your bikes to council property like street signs or lamp posts, although they vacillate a bit on that. I contacted them about a piece of paper stuck to a street sign off Grafton Street stating bicycles were not allowed to be locked there and they replied this was not legally binding but was (ironically) put there at the request of street traders who found locked bicycles were blocking their ability to make a far bigger obstruction. That indicated to me that you have an implicit right to lock your bike to council property. However there is a loophole regarding causing an obstruction. Most people must be aware that sometimes people lock their bikes in an inconsiderate way. I've seen them locked to traffic lights at busy junctions where they narrow the path available the the large number of pedestrians trying to cross. I've come back to find some tool has locked their bike half way along mine making it very difficult for me to remove mine. I've seen bikes locked to bus stops too, which is probably illegal since I think they are Dublin Bus property not the council, but is also inconsiderate since it means the bus can't pull up exactly at the stop if the passengers are to get on or off safely. I have no issue with the council removing such bikes and I strongly suspect that sort of activity will increase unless the operators of this new scheme does more than talk about points to prevent it.

    I wonder how many bikes are currently locked up around the city. It would be useful to know how many more bikes this scheme (and the other schemes that are also apparently planned) will be adding as a percentage of the existing usage. Would everyone be happy if the number of bikes parked around the city doubled? I wonder if the city council has any information on how many of sheffield stands and those blue hoops they have actually installed.


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    #48
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I wonder how many bikes are currently locked up around the city. It would be useful to know how many more bikes this scheme (and the other schemes that are also apparently planned) will be adding as a percentage of the existing usage. Would everyone be happy if the number of bikes parked around the city doubled? I wonder if the city council has any information on how many of sheffield stands and those blue hoops they have actually installed.

    I wonder how many locked bikes around the city are effectively abandoned?

    The Bleeper app has cycle parking locations marked on the map, and there are more of them than I expected.


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    #49
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's no way you'd be allowed 'fence off' other public property for storage (or whatever you'd like to call it) of property belonging to a commercial organisation, without first getting permission. the footpaths are there for public use, so i would have an issue with a private company deciding to act unilaterally in deciding where they're locking their bikes.

    it's arguable that if i cycled into the city, locked my bike in a particular spot, and went off for two hours shopping, i am 'using' my bike for those several hours - but a bike scheme bike like this could take up a public spot without actually being 'in use', depriving someone who does actually need a spot, from using it.


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    #50
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    loyatemu wrote: »
    I wonder how many locked bikes around the city are effectively abandoned?

    The Bleeper app has cycle parking locations marked on the map, and there are more of them than I expected.

    Fewer bikes abandoned than there used to be, now that Dublin City Council has crowdsourced reporting of abandoned bikes - you report them here:

    http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-road-maintenance-and-street-repair/repair-road-or-footpath

    I've been asking the council - and I hope others are too - to make a request option available so that you can use the same facility to ask for bike parking in an area that needs it.

    Where are the parking locations in the Bleeper app? I can't see them at all!

    Are there figures available for the number of bike parking spaces in different cities in Europe?


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    #51
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Chuchote wrote: »

    Where are the parking locations in the Bleeper app? I can't see them at all!

    just zoom in on the map. The app could do with some work, it should really show you where the nearest bike (and parking) is based on your location, rather than having to scroll around the map to find them. I assume it's the same app as used by YoBike as BB seem to have licensed their entire model.
    Fewer bikes abandoned than there used to be, now that Dublin City Council has crowdsourced reporting of abandoned bikes - you report them here:
    http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-s...ad-or-footpath

    no mention of bikes there


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    #52
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    it's arguable that if i cycled into the city, locked my bike in a particular spot, and went off for two hours shopping, i am 'using' my bike for those several hours - but a bike scheme bike like this could take up a public spot without actually being 'in use', depriving someone who does actually need a spot, from using it.

    That's an interesting way of looking at it I think, and in fact I think you could argue that it is Bleeperbike that are using 100s of bike parking spaces at any given time to operate their business.


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    #53
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    loyatemu wrote: »
    no mention of bikes there

    I just had a look and if you click all the way through to the form there is a category for abandoned bikes and trolleys.

    An app which used your GPS and allowed you to pick a thing off a list would be a lot more convenient. This could also be used to fulfil Chucote's desire to indicate a need for bike parking, you could just click to say "I wanted to park my bike here and there was no space available".

    This could be also used to indicate badly parked Bleeperbikes. I'm not planning to use their app if I find an entryway partially blocked or bikes locked to other bikes so that they can (maybe) take points off their users, I'd prefer to go straight to the council.


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    #54
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    There's a lot of potential issues/risks with this operating model, I do wish them all the best with it but I'd be nervous if I were the CEO. I really do hope people respect the service.


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    #55
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I just had a look and if you click all the way through to the form there is a category for abandoned bikes and trolleys.

    An app which used your GPS and allowed you to pick a thing off a list would be a lot more convenient. This could also be used to fulfil Chucote's desire to indicate a need for bike parking, you could just click to say "I wanted to park my bike here and there was no space available".

    This could be also used to indicate badly parked Bleeperbikes. I'm not planning to use their app if I find an entryway partially blocked or bikes locked to other bikes so that they can (maybe) take points off their users, I'd prefer to go straight to the council.

    Yes, I've been asking for potholes to be added to the See it! Say it! app, without any success so far. A 'bike parking needed' section would also be good.
    loyatemu wrote: »
    just zoom in on the map.

    I tried this both at home and at Portobello and nothing showed.


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    #56
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    They've pushed back their launch, seems like thev've realised it's better to have dialogue with the council after all.


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    #57
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,328 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    common sense will prevail all round hopefully.


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    #58
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    loyatemu wrote: »

    There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).

    Maybe I'm a cynic but people are inherently lazy when it comes to communal property and the way dublin is laid out the stands will never be directly opposite destinations.

    Take any of the shops in Ranelagh, you can put stands off in the side streets but clientele won't bother to go looking for them if they aren't being charged. The footpaths simply can't accommodate them.


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    #59
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    They've pushed back their launch, seems like thev've realised it's better to have dialogue with the council after all.

    And meanwhile they've got a bit of pre-publicity… #CynicMode
    ED E wrote: »
    Maybe I'm a cynic but people are inherently lazy when it comes to communal property and the way dublin is laid out the stands will never be directly opposite destinations.

    Take any of the shops in Ranelagh, you can put stands off in the side streets but clientele won't bother to go looking for them if they aren't being charged. The footpaths simply can't accommodate them.

    Are there stands on the side streets? Are people not using them?

    The council annoyingly removed the stands outside the blind shop in Terenure, but replaced them on the side street across the road. Despite the fact that this means crossing the slowest-response controlled pedestrian lights in Ireland, the stands are nearly always full and nearby signs also garlanded with bikes.


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    #60
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Chuchote wrote: »


    Are there stands on the side streets? Are people not using them?

    The council annoyingly removed the stands outside the blind shop in Terenure, but replaced them on the side street across the road. Despite the fact that this means crossing the slowest-response controlled pedestrian lights in Ireland, the stands are nearly always full and nearby signs also garlanded with bikes.

    Privately owned bikes that owners spent hundreds on.


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    #61
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    ED E wrote: »
    Privately owned bikes that owners spent hundreds on.

    Owners spent tens on more likely in Dublin, world epicentre of bike theft!


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