New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

AndrewJRenko

Anyone tried it yet?

http://www.bleeperbike.com/

CramCycle

Have to laugh at the parking rules picture, do not leave your bike sitting on the LUAS line!

robyntmorton

It looks a lot like a project website at the moment. I struggled to figure out exactly what the parking rules are (it's a public bike parking stand that is marked on the map only), the "bleeperpoints" concept, including suspending membership if you drop below 100 points, and the fact that all the prices in the terms and conditions are listed as €xx.

Like the idea, but make it as easy to understand as possible, and make sure EVERYTHING is in place before you go live.

ED E

It'll have all the problems mobike does in china, the current system has its caveats but is far superior.

loyatemu

the main problem I foresee is lack of proper bike parking around Dublin - if they and the council can improve that (and provide a map within the app) then I can see this working reasonably well. I love the Dublin Bikes but the whole hi-tech station concept is no longer necessary and is hampering further expansion of the scheme - I wonder what the relative cost of a Sheffield stand is versus the cost of one DB dock.

Mobike and others are planning agressive rollout in the UK so this looks like the way things are going generally:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/12/uber-bikes-manchester-mobike-china-global-ofo

iwillhtfu

robyntmorton wrote: »

It looks a lot like a project website at the moment. I struggled to figure out exactly what the parking rules are (it's a public bike parking stand that is marked on the map only), the "bleeperpoints" concept, including suspending membership if you drop below 100 points, and the fact that all the prices in the terms and conditions are listed as €xx.

Like the idea, but make it as easy to understand as possible, and make sure EVERYTHING is in place before you go live.

Are you looking at a mobile website or something as all the detail is clearly marked on full website.

€5 - 5 rides (1 ride = 1 hour)
€25 - 27 rides

Thud

installed the app, all the bikes seem to be in Portobello today, presume they are launching there?
it's success will depend on the number of bikes they put out looks like there are 40-50 of them on the app to start with


edit...based in Portobello, launching July, 1000 bikes:

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/15/e1-per-ride-stationless-bicycle-share-near-to-launch-in-dublin/

loyatemu

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Are you looking at a mobile website or something as all the detail is clearly marked on full website.

€5 - 5 rides (1 ride = 1 hour)
€25 - 27 rides

pricing is not bad for an occasional DB user - I'm paying the €25 annual fee, I'm not sure I use it much more than 25 times a year (and some of those I would have gone over the 30 mins).

If you were using DB every day then obviously that's better value, but you could still use Bleeper on the occasions when DBs were unavailable or you were outside of the DB zone.

I wonder will they have the same credit-card guarantee requirement?

buffalo

ED E wrote: »

It'll have all the problems mobike does in china, the current system has its caveats but is far superior.

Will we see these scenes over the next few months in Dublin?



http://mashable.com/2017/01/18/bike-sharing-pile-up-china/

AndrewJRenko

I don't see anything about 'zone' limits on the website. The canals is certainly a limitation for me, so it would be great to be able to pick up or even just drop off the bike beyond the canals. Did anyone see anything about any distance limit for locking up?

robyntmorton

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Are you looking at a mobile website or something as all the detail is clearly marked on full website.

€5 - 5 rides (1 ride = 1 hour)
€25 - 27 rides

Terms and conditions link at bottom of page - desktop.

tomasrojo

Edel Kelly, a senior planner at the environment and transport section of Dublin City Council:

This type of scheme should be considered as an alternative to the expansion of the Dublinbikes scheme which would require considerable public capital expenditure

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/15/e1-per-ride-stationless-bicycle-share-near-to-launch-in-dublin/

I'm getting the same bad feeling I get when people argue against improving public transport because of the imminent driverless-car utopia.

loyatemu

tomasrojo wrote: »

Edel Kelly, a senior planner at the environment and transport section of Dublin City Council:

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/15/e1-per-ride-stationless-bicycle-share-near-to-launch-in-dublin/

I'm getting the same bad feeling I get when people argue against improving public transport because of the imminent driverless-car utopia.

I haven't heard anyone arguing that, if anything driverless vehicles should mean less road-infrastructure and parking spaces.

WRT to bike sharing I think if you were launching DBs now, you would go with something closer to Bleeper than the infrastructure heavy and expensive DB design.

tomasrojo

loyatemu wrote: »

I haven't heard anyone arguing that, if anything driverless vehicles should mean less road-infrastructure and parking spaces.

I've seen it primarily in the American media. Mostly to shoot down light-rail projects, I think.

Type 17

It's hard enough getting a park for one's own private bike in many parts of the city. It will be chaos with an extra 1,000 bikes added to the mix.

I can't see the City Council being able to add more stands in the time required, nor allowing bleeperbike to add ones of their own.

Chuchote

Type 17 wrote: »

It's hard enough getting a park for one's own private bike in many parts of the city. It will be chaos with an extra 1,000 bikes added to the mix.

I can't see the City Council being able to add more stands in the time required, nor allowing bleeperbike to add ones of their own.

The City Council (the civil servants rather than the basically decorative councillors, to whom the civil servants seem not to pay a blind bit of notice) seem generally anti-cycling, though I'm open to correction.

Look at Rathmines, all of the few bike stands bristling with bicycles (and increasingly with motorbikes locked to them - what's that about?), and no sign of any more being provided. Surprising that the Swan Centre isn't active in looking for more, since it must be losing custom when people shrug and ride on to town.

Just downloaded the app and signed up. Hope it's not some clever scammer who now has my credit card to play with as he wilt.

loyatemu

there are loads of places around the city where extra racks could be added, there should be racks on practically every street - you'd fit 10 bikes in one car parking space.

AndrewJRenko

Chuchote wrote: »

The City Council (the civil servants rather than the basically decorative councillors, to whom the civil servants seem not to pay a blind bit of notice) seem generally anti-cycling, though I'm open to correction.

At risk of slight pedantry, local authority staff are public servants, not civil servants.

dub_skav

I'll keep an eye on this. If it's any use it will certainly replace my Dublin Bikes sub as I am a very rare user

buffalo

DCC not so happy: http://www.dublincity.ie/bleeperbike-scheme-launches-without-dublin-city-council%E2%80%99s-consent

The main issues to be addressed include managing the potential impacts of the scheme on the public realm, ensuring the bikes are fit for purpose and properly maintained, insurance, ensuring there is adequate cycle parking capacity in city centre locations and ensuring bikes are not abandoned at unsuitable locations. The Bye-Laws will likely require operators to apply for a licence to operate within the city.

The launch of this scheme is therefore premature pending the preparation of Bye-Laws.

...The Bleeperbike bicycles are unlicensed and will advertise the service which they provide. As such Dublin City Council is empowered to remove them from the public domain.

Sounds like the scheme might not make it very far in the near future.

Type 17

buffalo wrote: »

DCC not so happy: http://www.dublincity.ie/bleeperbike-scheme-launches-without-dublin-city-council%E2%80%99s-consent



Sounds like the scheme might not make it very far in the near future.

Internet-reliant sectors such as AirBnB, Uber, etc are taking traditional industries by surprise all over the world, and seeing as DCC are particularly "traditional", it will be very entertaining to see them attempting to react to this - remember The Record Industry's reaction when faced by file-sharing?

ThisRegard

There's no comparison I think with Air BnB and the likes, the company is relying on county council property to run their business and they have the power to easily put a stop to it.

ED E

Glad to see DCC being proactive.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/16/breaking-news-dublin-council-threatens-to-remove-stationless-bicycle-share/

magicbastarder

i'd suspect there are two sides to this story.

Chuchote

The council is against a scheme that would make transport in the city more efficient?

By the way, is there any way to request bike racks where they're needed in Dublin as you can in New York http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/cityrack-suggest.shtml

Baron Kurtz

Far from polished, that website. Mis-spelt words and poor punctuation. Just makes it feel a bit amateurish.

buffalo

Chuchote wrote: »

The council is against a scheme that would make transport in the city more efficient?

Cycle transport becomes a lot less efficient if you reach your destination and spend the next 20mins looking for somewhere to lock your steed because all the stands are full of commercial bikes.

It sounds like DCC wanted some time to assess the number/location/cost of new stands, and perhaps how much of this cost should be passed on to the private companies who would be benefiting. That's how it reads, though there may also by cynical power ploy in the background, trying to protect the DB scheme's revenues.

ED E

Chuchote wrote: »

The council is against a scheme that would make transport in the city more efficient?

Its not that, they would totally clog the city. We cant get cars (which can be fined) to park properly, no way ownerless bikes are going to be anything other than dumped. Imagine Grafton outside McDs at 2AM on a Saturday morning.

AndrewJRenko

ED E wrote: »

Its not that, they would totally clog the city. We cant get cars (which can be fined) to park properly, no way ownerless bikes are going to be anything other than dumped. Imagine Grafton outside McDs at 2AM on a Saturday morning.

I'm reminded of all the naysayer warnings of how the Dublin Bikes would NEVER work in Dublin and would all end up in the Liffey in the first week.

ED E

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm reminded of all the naysayer warnings of how the Dublin Bikes would NEVER work in Dublin and would all end up in the Liffey in the first week.

DBs worked elsewhere first. Mobike is a scourge elsewhere.

monument

ED E wrote: »

Glad to see DCC being proactive.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/16/breaking-news-dublin-council-threatens-to-remove-stationless-bicycle-share/

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd suspect there are two sides to this story.

Bleeperbike's side is also included in my articles.

ED E wrote: »

DBs worked elsewhere first. Mobike is a scourge elsewhere.

Mobike has not yet announce that they will launch here, Bleeperbike at least are trying with a plan for stricter and clearer parking rules and staff patrolling the city.

ED E

monument wrote: »

Mobike has not yet announce that they will launch here, Bleeperbike at least are trying with a plan for stricter and clearer parking rules and staff patrolling the city.

Using Mobike as the de facto standard. Bleeper are re-using their concept (which they maybe copied too IIRC).


DBs were paid for mainly by the advertising deal + a rake of DCC money. Bleeper arent that much more expensive and yet want to staff patrols to keep them clear? Wont be too many staff spread to 18hrs a day 7 days a week on a euro a trip.

Chuchote

ED E wrote: »

Its not that, they would totally clog the city.

The city is currently clogged and brought to a standstill by cars. It's scarcely likely that it would be more clogged by people using a bike share, even if every single car driver took to the bikes.

I find it odd that the council opposes the idea of a private company advertising a service.

magicbastarder

i can understand a certain uneasiness over a commercial venture which requires space on public footpaths and the like. any cafe or other vendor which wants to use public footpaths requires a licence from the council.
the comment about an unfair advantage may - or may not - suggest that other operators have been planning similar, but have been consulting with the council on how best to proceed.

buffalo

FITE!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0619/883872-dublin-bike-scheme/

A company which is setting up a new bike-sharing scheme in Dublin is going ahead with its service despite warnings from Dublin City Council that it could seize the bicycles.

loyatemu

buffalo wrote: »

FITE!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0619/883872-dublin-bike-scheme/

I'd be interested to know on what legal basis the council think they can seize BB's property, seeing as they haven't passed any bye laws yet? Most of the council's complaints about insurance, advertising etc seem pretty bogus.

There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).

TopOfTheHill

From the links ....

"RTÉ News understands there are several other companies looking at setting up stationless bike-sharing schemes in Dublin this year but Bleeperbike is the first to go live."

and

"In a statement issued on Friday the council said the launch by Bleeperbike was "premature... and may secure an unfair advantage over other potential operators who are prepared to work closely with Dublin City Council".

Not very business like looking for an advantage now is it .....

AndrewJRenko

loyatemu wrote: »

I'd be interested to know on what legal basis the council think they can seize BB's property, seeing as they haven't passed any bye laws yet? Most of the council's complaints about insurance, advertising etc seem pretty bogus.

There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).

Here's the relevant legislation;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/14/section/71/enacted/en/html

Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.

buffalo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Here's the relevant legislation;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/14/section/71/enacted/en/html

Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.

Not to mention the hundreds of sandwich boards outside shops and cafes. Should we remove these obstacles to aid wheelchair users and visually impaired people? Nope, let's push them into the cycle lanes! :rolleyes:

ThisRegard

buffalo wrote: »

Not to mention the hundreds of sandwich boards outside shops and cafes. Should we remove these obstacles to aid wheelchair users and visually impaired people? Nope, let's push them into the cycle lanes! :rolleyes:

You do often hear or read about businesses in the city having their signs or street furniture removed by the council for being on footpaths and the like without proper permission to do so.

My own opinion is that I don't think that this bike share company should be allowed to clog up public bike parking, it's not as if there's a glut of proper facilities as it is.

jimmycrackcorm

ThisRegard wrote:

My own opinion is that I don't think that this bike share company should be allowed to clog up public bike parking, it's not as if there's a glut of proper facilities as it is.

My own opinion is that I don't think taxis should clog up bus lanes either.

I do think that bike share companies should be able to use public bike parking. I wouldn't use them for my own bike because of the fish of theft, and like DB bikes, I'd find it better to use shared bikes.

HivemindXX

Presumably they will just be seizing ones that are parked illegally. Most people are at least somewhat concerned about where they leave their own personal property but I don't have the same faith as the people operating this scheme seem to that a points system will stop people leaving these bikes in annoying places. There are plenty of places where you are not supposed to lock your bike and where it is inconsiderate to do so. I think it is certain that this will massively increase the amount of illegal and inconsiderate bike parking.

I guess we'll see how it turns out but I think the people who are assuming this will "make cycling more efficient" and generally be a great thing for the city before we see how it will actually work are terribly naive. There is a known problem in China with schemes like this and I don't think "we'll ask our users not to do this and we'll have points" is a good enough plan to prevent this. I'll go out on a limb and say that the claim that one of their staff will never be more than 5 minutes away from any of their bikes is a blatant lie. This is the issue with these so called disruptive technology companies, they don't follow the rules because they don't think they apply and they are perfectly happy to simply lie about what they are doing.

The people who claimed that the Dublin Bikes would end up in the canals were wrong because the Dublin Bikes operators took measures to ensure this wasn't going to happen. I don't see any credible measures being taken by this company to prevent the sort of situation occurring in some Chinese cities.

check_six

I, for one, am looking forward to running the gauntlet of DCC Bike Catchers as they try to haul me off a BleeperBike and confiscate it. I really really hope they will be using giant butterfly nets to do the catching.

loyatemu

HivemindXX wrote: »

Presumably they will just be seizing ones that are parked illegally. Most people are at least somewhat concerned about where they leave their own personal property but I don't have the same faith as the people operating this scheme seem to that a points system will stop people leaving these bikes in annoying places. There are plenty of places where you are not supposed to lock your bike and where it is inconsiderate to do so. I think it is certain that this will massively increase the amount of illegal and inconsiderate bike parking.

What exactly is "illegal" bike parking - you see signs along the lines of "don't lock bikes to these railings" but that's mostly on private property. Is it legal to lock your bike to a lampost, signpost or tree? DCC generally won't remove a bike unless it's really causing an obstruction.

magicbastarder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Amazing how we have tens of thousands of cars parked in the city, with hundreds of them illegally parked and negligible enforcement, but here some a few bikes so we'll leap into action.

the council may argue that they already have systems in place to tackle illegal parking (however effective you think this may be); but where is the line between what action a dublin parking enforcement official can take, vs. what a garda can take, against illegally parked cars?

there's a little bit of a whiff off this from both sides - if i was launching a commercial service which required parking vehicles on public footpaths, i think i'd have contacted the council first to ensure there was no potential issue.

Lumen

loyatemu wrote: »

What exactly is "illegal" bike parking

http://www.thejournal.ie/bleeper-bikes-dublin-3448895-Jun2017/

“It is an offence under Section 71 of the Roads Act 1993 to place unlicensed items in the public footpath/roadway,” the council said.

71.—(1) (a) Any person who, without lawful authority or the consent of a road authority—

(i) erects, places or retains a sign on a public road, or

(ii) erects, places or retains on a public road any caravan, vehicle or other structure or thing (whether on wheels or not) used for the purposes of advertising, the sale of goods, the provision of services or other similar purpose,

shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) A consent under paragraph (a) may be given by the road authority subject to such conditions, restrictions or requirements as it thinks fit and any person who fails to comply with such conditions, restrictions or requirements shall be guilty of an offence.

So a person who places a thing which provides a service or which advertises a service without consent from the road authority [council] is committing an offence.

ISTR various bikedorks on here asserting previously that (a) the footpad is technically "on the public road" (b) the council is the road authority in the city.

HivemindXX

loyatemu wrote: »

What exactly is "illegal" bike parking - you see signs along the lines of "don't lock bikes to these railings" but that's mostly on private property. Is it legal to lock your bike to a lampost, signpost or tree? DCC generally won't remove a bike unless it's really causing an obstruction.

Yes, private property, which I am pretty sure includes bus stops. The city is full of railings and poles which are on private property or are private property.

It is apparently legal to lock your bikes to council property like street signs or lamp posts, although they vacillate a bit on that. I contacted them about a piece of paper stuck to a street sign off Grafton Street stating bicycles were not allowed to be locked there and they replied this was not legally binding but was (ironically) put there at the request of street traders who found locked bicycles were blocking their ability to make a far bigger obstruction. That indicated to me that you have an implicit right to lock your bike to council property. However there is a loophole regarding causing an obstruction. Most people must be aware that sometimes people lock their bikes in an inconsiderate way. I've seen them locked to traffic lights at busy junctions where they narrow the path available the the large number of pedestrians trying to cross. I've come back to find some tool has locked their bike half way along mine making it very difficult for me to remove mine. I've seen bikes locked to bus stops too, which is probably illegal since I think they are Dublin Bus property not the council, but is also inconsiderate since it means the bus can't pull up exactly at the stop if the passengers are to get on or off safely. I have no issue with the council removing such bikes and I strongly suspect that sort of activity will increase unless the operators of this new scheme does more than talk about points to prevent it.

I wonder how many bikes are currently locked up around the city. It would be useful to know how many more bikes this scheme (and the other schemes that are also apparently planned) will be adding as a percentage of the existing usage. Would everyone be happy if the number of bikes parked around the city doubled? I wonder if the city council has any information on how many of sheffield stands and those blue hoops they have actually installed.

loyatemu

HivemindXX wrote: »

I wonder how many bikes are currently locked up around the city. It would be useful to know how many more bikes this scheme (and the other schemes that are also apparently planned) will be adding as a percentage of the existing usage. Would everyone be happy if the number of bikes parked around the city doubled? I wonder if the city council has any information on how many of sheffield stands and those blue hoops they have actually installed.

I wonder how many locked bikes around the city are effectively abandoned?

The Bleeper app has cycle parking locations marked on the map, and there are more of them than I expected.

magicbastarder

there's no way you'd be allowed 'fence off' other public property for storage (or whatever you'd like to call it) of property belonging to a commercial organisation, without first getting permission. the footpaths are there for public use, so i would have an issue with a private company deciding to act unilaterally in deciding where they're locking their bikes.

it's arguable that if i cycled into the city, locked my bike in a particular spot, and went off for two hours shopping, i am 'using' my bike for those several hours - but a bike scheme bike like this could take up a public spot without actually being 'in use', depriving someone who does actually need a spot, from using it.

Chuchote

loyatemu wrote: »

I wonder how many locked bikes around the city are effectively abandoned?

The Bleeper app has cycle parking locations marked on the map, and there are more of them than I expected.

Fewer bikes abandoned than there used to be, now that Dublin City Council has crowdsourced reporting of abandoned bikes - you report them here:

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-road-maintenance-and-street-repair/repair-road-or-footpath

I've been asking the council - and I hope others are too - to make a request option available so that you can use the same facility to ask for bike parking in an area that needs it.

Where are the parking locations in the Bleeper app? I can't see them at all!

Are there figures available for the number of bike parking spaces in different cities in Europe?

loyatemu

Chuchote wrote: »

Where are the parking locations in the Bleeper app? I can't see them at all!

just zoom in on the map. The app could do with some work, it should really show you where the nearest bike (and parking) is based on your location, rather than having to scroll around the map to find them. I assume it's the same app as used by YoBike as BB seem to have licensed their entire model.

Fewer bikes abandoned than there used to be, now that Dublin City Council has crowdsourced reporting of abandoned bikes - you report them here:
http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-s...ad-or-footpath

no mention of bikes there