Journalism and cycling

Chips Lovell · 25-06-2019 7:29pm

Yeah, the numbers certainly don't back up the case that Dublin is a car-centric city. I think the most recent studies had the number of people travelling to the city centre by public transport exceeding 50 percent, while car use (as Tomasrojo) pointed out is 30 percent and trending down, while cycling is trending up.

Rechuchote · 25-06-2019 8:54pm

Put it this way: the people of Dublin may not be carcentric; but the road-builders build streets for roads, and not for public transport or active transport.

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 9:06pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

Put it this way: the people of Dublin may not be carcentric; but the road-builders build streets for roads, and not for public transport or active transport.

Yeah, they're overly fearful of the bad opinion of a minority.

CramCycle · 25-06-2019 9:09pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Certain parts of the city are absolutely packed with pedestrians while cars whizz by at dangerous speeds. Merrion Row, Baggot st, are my least favourite. Tiny little footpaths and people spilling onto the roads. Dame St, Nassau St, all of these are 100% in favour of the car. It's such a noisy clogged up city these days, it's horrible.

It is, never understood why that has two lanes there, it is crazy and unnecessary. Should be single lane up Merrion Row and onto Baggot St., make the footpath wider on both sides and restrict it to public transport and early morning deliveries only.

Rechuchote · 25-06-2019 9:31pm

And the driver is seen as the norm.

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 9:31pm

CramCycle wrote: »

It is, never understood why that has two lanes there, it is crazy and unnecessary. Should be single lane up Merrion Row and onto Baggot St., make the footpath wider on both sides and restrict it to public transport and early morning deliveries only.

And have you seen the absolute state of the footpaths? They're so old and trodden upon, mostly by vans pulling up on them, that they're sunken into the earth and smashed to bits. Where the hell does our tax go? How hard is it to have decent pavements and room for walking, in Dublin f'n 2?!

AndrewJRenko · 25-06-2019 9:33pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

Put it this way: the people of Dublin may not be carcentric; but the road-builders build streets for roads, and not for public transport or active transport.

Check out Westland Row or Barrow St after a train arrives - people overflowing off the path onto the road in the desperate search for space.

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 9:36pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Check out Westland Row or Barrow St after a train arrives - people overflowing off the path onto the road in the desperate search for space.

Yes I cycle down it every morning. Apart from the bike lane having vans parked in it every morning, people step out into the bike lane from the path as it's not wide enough and I have so very nearly had accidents because of this.
What on earth do our city council do? Funny how they lashed up a contraflow bike lane on lombard st and extended the one that starts at the bridge rather quickly because of the velo cycle nonsense that's going on.
I swear they just don't know what they're doing or are not even aware of what goes on in this city.

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 9:44pm

I am picking up genuine embarrassment on the part of the authorities at the criticisms of their infrastructure coming from the Velo-City delegates. There's also open mocking going on on Twitter by the delegates. Maybe somebody who attended can comment.

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 9:46pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I am picking up genuine embarrassment on the part of the authorities at the criticisms of their infrastructure coming from the Velo-City delegates. There's also open mocking going on on Twitter by the delegates. Maybe somebody who attended can comment.

can you post some links?

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 9:53pm

Some mocking:

https://twitter.com/lennartnout/status/1143532010234896385
https://twitter.com/herbert_tiemens/status/1143532428264443905

Not mocking as such, but not exactly complimentary:
https://twitter.com/mikaelvaneeck/status/1143273528701149184
https://twitter.com/SimonFessard/status/1143108200151035906
https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1143174992114454529

The embarrassment whose existence I'm assuming is just based on reports of the hosts agreeing with the negative opinions, and saying they'll try harder. Maybe they're not embarrassed. I guess someone who attended might be able to confirm.

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 10:01pm

ha yeah I actually saw those ones earlier. Coming off the ferry into that nonsense can't have been nice!

CramCycle · 25-06-2019 10:04pm

The funny thing is, in all those videos I could only think, if it was that good every day we'd be in a better place :eek:

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 10:07pm

CramCycle wrote: »

The funny thing is, in all those videos I could only think, if it was that good every day we'd be in a better place :eek:

lol, I was thinking this too, they're the good parts of Dublin cycle infrastructure!

Check this out, the cheek of DCC liking the tweet, the only decent cycle lane in Dublin!

https://twitter.com/GRACQ/status/1143524570860834816

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 10:20pm

I think there are a few ok-ish facilities around. Ones I don't mind using anyway. The one along the Slang is pleasant enough, out to Marlay Park, though kissing gates mean I have to depart from it and come back later on the route when I'm using the cargo bike. The one along the Dodder is ok, though it's incomplete, since one of the parks doesn't allow cycling. There's a stretch of the Grand Canal route that's pretty usable, albeit it breaks down in the middle at Leeson Street bridge. And the Clontarf route is fairly well liked.

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 10:28pm

There's another not so complimentary tweet from a pretty prominent figure:
https://twitter.com/herbert_tiemens/status/1143445738518720512

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 10:36pm

I have to say there's an absolutely crazy amount of cyclists out these days in Dublin, the most I've ever seen. Maybe lots of people are fair weather cyclists? Then again it seems to be wetter in summer than the rest of the year.

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 10:39pm

That's the somewhat paradoxical thing: the authorities haven't done much in ages to facilitate cycling, but cycling has grown really a lot anyway, which is somewhat missed by that Guardian report. But it's pretty unpleasant in lots of places, and unnecessarily so. A lot of street redesign is needed, and quite a lot of on-street parking needs to go.

It's a nice irony that if Dublin City Council hadn't lost their nerve, a lot of the delegates would be at least concentrating on the Liffey Route, instead of wondering what the hell is going on on the quays.

Thelonious Monk · 25-06-2019 10:45pm

other cyclists are passing so close to me lately, like millimetres away from catching my handlebars. The roads on my route are at capacity for cyclists at rush hour these days.

magicbastarder · 25-06-2019 10:52pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I am picking up genuine embarrassment on the part of the authorities at the criticisms of their infrastructure coming from the Velo-City delegates. There's also open mocking going on on Twitter by the delegates. Maybe somebody who attended can comment.

i was at a DCC (dublin cycling campaign) meeting last year where someone from DCC (dublin city council) attended and begged people to mail their public representatives.
the message was that their hands are tied when the councillors are beholden to their constituents who balk very loudly at losing private car privileges, and i do get that; but even the low level stuff the road engineers don't need political support for, they frequently get wrong anyway.

tomasrojo · 25-06-2019 10:55pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

other cyclists are passing so close to me lately, like millimetres away from catching my handlebars. The roads on my route are at capacity for cyclists at rush hour these days.

One thing about using a cargo bike is that I'm pretty sick of people close passing me on bikes. One guy even temporarily coalesced with me when his close pass went awry (not a collision as such; more him ending up leaning on me as we carried on going forward together).

blackwhite · 26-06-2019 8:09am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

ha yeah I actually saw those ones earlier. Coming off the ferry into that nonsense can't have been nice!

To be honest - it looked a lot better than it usually is when Alexandra Rd is closed (which seems to be 2-3 times a week these days). Tolka Quay Rd is usually gridlock at ferry times when the alternative gets closed.

Dublin Port Co the culprits in this instance. Dublin City Council have no remit for the roads down there

Weepsie · 26-06-2019 9:44am

My personal observation is that traffic yesterday and today is much worse than it ought to be around the city centre. As though people are driving more just to show VeloCity delegates how crap Dublin is.

I would guess there are some diversions in place too, to make it look like it's fine, but the traffic around Amiens Street, Seville Place and around Phibsboro this morning was awful.

Duckjob · 26-06-2019 9:47am

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Yeah, the numbers certainly don't back up the case that Dublin is a car-centric city. I think the most recent studies had the number of people travelling to the city centre by public transport exceeding 50 percent, while car use (as Tomasrojo) pointed out is 30 percent and trending down, while cycling is trending up.

Rechuchote wrote:

Put it this way: the people of Dublin may not be carcentric; but the road-builders build streets for roads, and not for public transport or active transport.

Couldnt agree more, and the resulting sense of driver entitlement (which feeds into a general lack of patience and care with VRUs) is off the scale.

I was going down Grafton Street the other morning, and myself and a load of other pedestrians had to stop at the junction of Grafton and Wicklow St to let a constant stream of entitled arseholes turn and toddle down the middle of Grafton Street, some even beeping pedestrians out of their way. Zero apparent consequences. Zero f**ks given by anyone.

The roads of this country have turned into one big serious WTF for me.

Felexicon · 26-06-2019 10:24am

Weepsie wrote: »

My personal observation is that traffic yesterday and today is much worse than it ought to be around the city centre. As though people are driving more just to show VeloCity delegates how crap Dublin is.

I would guess there are some diversions in place too, to make it look like it's fine, but the traffic around Amiens Street, Seville Place and around Phibsboro this morning was awful.

That is a massive stretch of the imagination. 99% of people wouldn't have a clue it is on.

26-06-2019 10:25am

Haven't been in Dublin in an age but since when was traffic allowed down Grafton St. off Wicklow St.

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 10:26am

Felexicon wrote: »

That is a massive stretch of the imagination. 99% of people wouldn't have a clue it is on.

I think that's "as though" followed by what in most languages would be the subjunctive.

check_six · 26-06-2019 10:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't been in Dublin in an age but since when was traffic allowed down Grafton St. off Wicklow St.

Vehicular traffic is allowed on Grafton St. every morning up to 10 or 11.

Hurrache · 26-06-2019 10:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't been in Dublin in an age but since when was traffic allowed down Grafton St. off Wicklow St.

Since it was pedestrianised traffic was always allowed very early in the morning for deliveries, I'm sure some dopes have caught on to the fact they could use it as a short cut to somewhere during that period?

Thelonious Monk · 26-06-2019 10:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't been in Dublin in an age but since when was traffic allowed down Grafton St. off Wicklow St.

Think it might be very early in the morning

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 10:44am

This is grimly predictable and quite embarrassing:

https://irishcycle.com/2019/06/25/vc19-car-industry-cannot-be-allowed-to-paint-its-vision-of-the-future-city-conference-told/comment-page-1/#comment-233311

Stan Dunne
June 25, 2019 at 11:00 pm

I did a double-take/jaw-drop today at VC19 when I spotted there amongst the exhibitors an RSA stand with a pile of high-viz vests for handing out.

Duckjob · 26-06-2019 11:03am

Hurrache wrote: »

Since it was pedestrianised traffic was always allowed very early in the morning for deliveries, I'm sure some dopes have caught on to the fact they could use it as a short cut to somewhere during that period?

Goods vehicles only, up to 11am.

I would say 50% of traffic I saw were private cars.

Chips Lovell · 26-06-2019 12:18pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

That's the somewhat paradoxical thing: the authorities haven't done much in ages to facilitate cycling, but cycling has grown really a lot anyway, which is somewhat missed by that Guardian report. But it's pretty unpleasant in lots of places, and unnecessarily so. A lot of street redesign is needed, and quite a lot of on-street parking needs to go.

The report reminds me of something Mrs. Lovell was saying the other week. There was a report about the local elections here in the Economist and she remarked that whoever they have covering Ireland is really on the ball. In other words, when you read their Irish coverage, you recognise the country you live in. Whereas the Guardian, she said, always seemed to miss something or not really understand the issue.

The fact that they could run that piece and miss the single biggest thing of note, the massive increase in the number of cyclists over the past decade, is kind of stunning.

I'd agree that Dublin isn't perfect, but the picture that piece paints is very far removed from the reality of cycling here. If it were really so grim, why are so many people cycling now?

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 12:25pm

Yeah, I find Dublin fine overall. However, unfortunately, where the conference centre is located has a lot of cycling-hostile streets leading to it, so I'm not surprised the delegates aren't very impressed.

When I say I find Dublin fine though, my route to work involves two sections where I get off and walk because one-ways and induction-coil traffic lights make the quieter route difficult in two places. Even these minor irritations add up.

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 12:30pm

I think the impression the delegates seem to be getting (that whenever private cars/vans/trucks come into conflict with other transport modes, the other transport modes lose) is broadly very correct.

Duckjob · 26-06-2019 12:41pm

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

It's that nut that politicians and planners need to crack if they want to unlock the real potential of bikes as a sustainable transport form, and see a real transformation of our cities. Just harping on about the benefits and saying "Go-on Go-on" to people won't cut it given the joke that is our current infrastructure.

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 12:48pm

Duckjob wrote: »

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

It's that nut that politicians and planners need to crack if they want to unlock the real potential of bikes as a sustainable transport form, and see a real transformation of our cities. Just harping on about the benefits and saying "Go-on Go-on" to people won't cut it given the joke that is our current infrastructure.

Yeah, depends on what age they were, but huge swathes of the city centre would be unsuitable, and you'd probably have to get off and walk around other bits; hard to get a coherent journey together. A lot of the suburbs are ok for local journeys though, if people don't mind your kids cycling on the footpath.

Herbert Tiemens mentions the cycling for all ages criterion and how far O'Connell Street falls short in his tweet quoted a page or two back.

Zillah · 26-06-2019 1:03pm

Duckjob wrote: »

For me, and I'm sure many others, the acid test is : Would I feel comfortable to bring my kids with me around the city on bikes. On that test, Dublin fails badly.

Honestly, I think we have Stockholm syndrome sometimes. I convince myself that cycling in Dublin is fine, but I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time, and it's only when I ask a question like the above or "How would my nervous housemate or my elderly mother feel about cycling this route?" that I suddenly remember this place is a nightmare.

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris; and that just the unintentional stuff - my favourite is when a gutter, manhole, or other deathtrap is deliberately stuck prominently in the middle of the cycle lane, because shure it's not in the way of cars and therefore that's the problem dealt with.

My latest pet peeve is incompetent roadworks. Someone digs up a pipe, does their work, and then covers it up again, and I swear they were playing on Instagram with one hand while they filled the hole in, because it's about as smooth as a forest track. Is there no policy of inspection or review after this work is completed? It really seems they can do any old garbage work and move on without consequences after collecting their cheque from the council.

I did not expect this to turn into a rant that long.

magicbastarder · 26-06-2019 1:05pm

Zillah wrote: »

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris

i was not impressed recently to see that the footpaths along griffith avenue are being replaced. they're actually in decent nick, but i can name multiple roads nearby where the cycle lanes are unusable for the above reasons.

tomasrojo · 26-06-2019 1:12pm

Zillah wrote: »

Honestly, I think we have Stockholm syndrome sometimes. I convince myself that cycling in Dublin is fine, but I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time

Yeah, my initial route to work took me over Rathmines bridge, down towards South Great Georges Street. I abandoned that route, because it was too much as you describe here.

Duckjob · 26-06-2019 1:41pm

Zillah wrote: »

Even the road surface is a debacle in most places, with crumbling tarmac, huge holes, ridges, and handfuls of grime and debris; and that just the unintentional stuff - my favourite is when a gutter, manhole, or other deathtrap is deliberately stuck prominently in the middle of the cycle lane, because shure it's not in the way of cars and therefore that's the problem dealt with.

It's funny when I hear cyclists being moaned about for not giving hand signals (along with the rest). To me it's just another example of people who really have no clue of what its like to cycle here.

Many's the time I've put out my hand to signal coming to a junction, only to hurriedly put it back on the handlebar because I see the state of the road surface I'm about to go over and I know I will be off the bike hitting the deck if I go over it one handed.

VeloCity my arse.

RobertFoster · 26-06-2019 2:17pm

Zillah wrote: »

My latest pet peeve is incompetent roadworks.

You reminded me of something I witnessed recently that annoyed me. For a couple of weeks there were roadworks being carried out in Ashbourne which resulted in the new-ish cycle track being dug up here. You have to dig where you have to dig, fine, I understand that, but what really irked me was the "Cycle Lane Closed" sign they put up. Instead of doing the sensible thing and putting it 200 m before the works where the last dished kerb is, they put the sign right at the works themselves forcing cyclists to either dismount and walk or lift the bike onto the road.

It's not a huge problem, but it's still hostile. Ah sure, they're only cyclists. I've never seen a driver forced into a cul-de-sac by roadworks with the only option to push the car onto a parallel road.

I saw similar on the Clontarf track (near 360 Cycles) when it had been recently finished. The shovel sniffer just stood watching myself and another cyclist trying to squeeze past each other and his van.

Chips Lovell · 26-06-2019 2:24pm

Zillah wrote: »

I say that as someone who has become accustomed to having to squeeze through 8 inch gaps and having buses and HGV's trying to kill me all the time

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

site_owner · 26-06-2019 3:16pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

Thelonious Monk · 26-06-2019 3:20pm

site_owner wrote: »

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

He lives in Sutton and works in East Point

Chips Lovell · 26-06-2019 3:31pm

site_owner wrote: »

seriously? thats pretty much the experience of every other cyclist on this forum, on twitter and at the conference.

do you do most of your cycling on a set of rollers?

Have been cycling in and out of work for a decade. Current commute is 17km each way cross city. Have never in my life had to "squeeze through an 8 inch gap". Incidents with motorists happen on rare occasions but I've never come across anyone I believed was actually "trying to kill me". If that happened some of the time, let alone "all the time" I wouldn't cycle.

Weepsie · 26-06-2019 3:34pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Seriously? That is not my experience of cycling in Dublin.

Not least of all because I don't know of any handlebars that are merely 20cm wide. Unless they mean 8inch outside of the bars.

Budawanny · 26-06-2019 3:42pm

Think We will have to give some lessons in understanding and interpreting hyperbole here.

site_owner · 26-06-2019 3:49pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Have been cycling in and out of work for a decade. Current commute is 17km each way cross city. Have never in my life had to "squeeze through an 8 inch gap". Incidents with motorists happen on rare occasions but I've never come across anyone I believed was actually "trying to kill me". If that happened some of the time, let alone "all the time" I wouldn't cycle.

is what the other poster said true, that you only cycle on the s2s segregated cycle track from sutton to east point?

Chips Lovell · 26-06-2019 3:51pm

site_owner wrote: »

is what the other poster said true, that you only cycle on the s2s segregated cycle track from sutton to east point?

No. I think you're getting me mixed up with another forum regular. That's never been my commute.

Journalism and cycling

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