NFL Protest Discussion

This is the way I see it:

- Taking a knee in front of a flag is not disrespectful in any way.

- Your freedom of speech or protest is only protected if you work for a Government agency BUT not in the private sector and the NFL while morally wrong are doing nothing wrong legally

- This whole thing was blown up by Trump. Before he opened his dumb mouth only a handful of players were doing it. The weekend after he said something the majority of African Americans were taking a knee.

- The majority of those opposing the knee have no idea why the players are doing it and are only now objecting because of what Trump said. Most just hated Kap for what he was doing but because their own teams were not doing it they didn't care. Trump gets involved and boom atomic bomb dropped. Now everyone on both sides has an opinion and it has divided opinions.

- If all of these players were white Trump would not have opened his mouth and I bet you any amount of money the tables would be turned politically.

- This whole debate is Political no matter how anyone wants to swing it.

- This whole thing sums up Politics in this country and puts a glaring spotlight on the nonsense of both the Far Left and Far Right.

My own thought is while I disagree with the NFLs rules they are within their right to do what they are doing. They are in the private sector and anyone who works in the US knows you have very little rights in most states when it comes to working. Take MA considered a Liberal state. MA is a work at will state and there is very little protection for employees. You turn up do your job and get on with it. Anything else and they can fire you. There is some protection but it aint great. If I did what the NFL players were doing I could be sacked on the spot. Private sector as I mentioned above is not protected.

eagle eye wrote: »

If there is a huge amount against it, it doesn't have to be majority, then it's going to affect the NFL as a business so they are right to fine players to try and stop it happening.

And there are a huge amount who support it that the NFL are now risking losing as viewers, on top of the fact this is something they'll look back on in even just 5-10 years time and want to forget about because it's not going to age well as a law.

So what makes people who are against the US constitution more important to the NFL than people who support it? Just on this forum with a small handful of fans they've already lost my subscription for the year and may well have lost StringerBell entirely.

The whole purpose of this is being forgotten about because all everybody is talking about is whether it's right to kneel or not.

Which is completely intentional, because they didn't want to talk about the issue being protested so they decided to just claim it is disrespectful for people to protesting even if it is done in a manner that the US Constitution and flag code say are 100% acceptable and in no way disrespectful.

What they should be doing if they were honest about the whole thing is petitioning to get rid of the first amendment as it is currently written, but they won't because of how much they've been banging on about the US Constitution as 'sacred'. Which, like most of what they have claimed to stand for over the last decade, has proven to be complete bullsh*t.

So you are anti-Republican, this is all I'm taking from what you said there because it's so biased.

I'm anti-cultism and anti-dictatorship, so clearly that would make me anti-Republican in their current guise.

A party that calls itself the 'party of family values' yet literally came within a whisker of voting in an actual, open and proud pedophile in Roy Moore only last year because he had the letter (R) beside his name, and that voted for someone who brags on camera about molesting women to be President.

A party that claims to want isolationism because the other candidate is a 'war monger' yet cheer on wildly as Trump tries to play the tough guy, threatening war wherever he can. And that pretends the huge ramping up of drone attacks across the middle east hasn't happened despite never shutting up about them through 2015-16.

A party that claims to essentially worship the constitution yet sh*ts all over the first amendment as their president tries to silence and discredit peaceful protesters (the right to peaceful assembly), the media and press wherever he can on a weekly basis, outright claiming that "90% of all bad news about me is fake" just 2-3 weeks back (free exercise of the press), and of religions with his failed Muslim ban (no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof).

A party more than happy to look the other way and ignore the undeniable truth that their current president colluded with a hostile foreign entity to influence the election, with even his own son showing he was meeting Kremlin officials to discuss sanctions (also illegal) in exchange for dirt on his political opponent. We've even seen -on multiple occasions- when faced with too much overwhelming evidence to deny any further, claim that "collusion is not a crime". Again this goes back to the fact that the Republican party is essentially a cult at this point, and in a cult reality is not welcome if it does not fit the narrative.

A party that will go after protesters who are exercising their first amendment rights peacefully, yet who will outright threaten serious levels of violence is anyone tries to take their first or second amendment rights from them (the Russian-funded NRA even decided to run a series of ads promoting terrorism because of this), to the point they wanted to make a cult hero out of the absurdly racist guy who thought the US was better with slavery having an armed standoff with the US government itself. But don't you dare kneel during the anthem because in Republican America, it's always one rule for thee, another for me.

A party that when point blank reality faces them with the cold truth, decide to reject reality and instead embrace "alternative facts" - because believing reality is whatever The Leader tells you it is, even though he lies on average more than a half dozen times a day, is how you know you're in a cult.

A party that moans endlessly about wasteful spending or the president playing golf, then completely shut up about anything like that as The Leader puts tends of millions of taxpayer dollars directly into his own businesses. One rule for thee, another for me... it's ok because The Leader said it is.

A party that has literally fought against critical thinking (key sign of a cult, right there) and built up a cult-like propaganda network (for the explicit purpose of propaganda) that are openly hostile to the truth if it does not fit their narrative, leading their average viewer to be less informed than someone who doesn't watch the news at all. Here it is in a 46-second, Hannity sized nutshell.

A party that convinces poor people to vote against their better interests time and again (I wonder why they want critical thinking gone?) as the party of billionaires repeatedly takes away (and fights against) their access to medical care, social services, access to education or better living conditions. Culminating in them voting in the most corrupt person to maybe ever even run for President on an anti-corruption platform (that he immediately backtracked on by stuffing his cabinet with some of the most corrupt people ever in office. See: Ajit Pai, Scott Pruitt for a start) while claiming he was "one of them" (you couldn't find someone further from them if you tried).

A party that stands by quietly as a demagogue tries to built a dictatorship around them, because they value their Cult of (R) more than their country itself. And as this weeks example, here is Trump claiming that he is allowed to shut down any investigation on himself because he is president (hint: he can't, that's why the US government structure has such a high emphasis on separation of powers - explicitly to avoid dictatorships). Will the same party that fetishises the Founding Fathers so much stand up and say "hold on, that's not what Jefferson & co wanted"? No, no they won't - and we both know that full well. Because much like this anthem protest, for most this has nothing to do with the flag or anthem itself and has everything to do with the fact it's black players protesting inequality. Because seemingly as always... one rule for thee, another for me.

A lot of people who have worked in the army and the reserve forces are unhappy about this. Those people have every right to be unhappy about it. If this was happening over here I'd be very unhappy about it.

If they have an issue with it they should look to petition against the right to peaceful protest in the first amendment, but somehow I feel they won't be doing that because then how would they stage their insanely racist protests they loved so much when the black guy was in office, or when they want to march around with their semi-assault rifles when they feel they might get taken away, or when they want to discriminate against LGBT people because 'religious freedom'?

But I certainly didn't see them opening their mouths to complain when disabled peaceful protesters were told by Republican Senators to "shut up" before being forcibly removed and arrested. And this is not the first time this happened, not by a long shot but still no peep from them. But hey, that's because The Leaders ordered it to happen and when you're part of the Cult of (R) you absolutely do not question The Leaders under any circumstance or you'll get cut off from the family altogether (as has happened with any Republicans who have dared speak out against the sh*tshow the Republican party has become). Totally not a cult though, totally not a cult.

And that right there is the problem with the Republican party, and why 9/10 of them disagree with the player protests despite them being so heavily in favour of protests (including heavily armed standoffs). It has nothing to do with it being disrespectful (as it is not in any way) and has feck all to do with protesting, but instead everything to do with what they are protesting. As the issue is inequality for minorities, they hate it and want nothing more than for it to be ignored and silenced.

Now you are getting silly.

Nope, see above. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's probably a duck.

Some more examples:
- Trump claims, despite clear video evidence, that he had the biggest inauguration ever... Republicans and FOX viewers avidly jump on claiming it was the biggest inauguration ever, and all the video evidence is fake.

- Trump claims, despite his own lawyers saying otherwise, that he only lost the popular vote because of voter fraud... Republicans avidly jump up and down that he only lost the popular vote because of voter fraud.

- Trump makes up terrorist incident in Sweden that never happened... Republicans go mad about terrorist incident in Sweden that never happened.

- Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower... this is proven false, and yet Republicans are still claiming Obama bugged Trump Tower.

- Trump, after claiming Neo Nazis to have "very fine people" among them with which Republicans had no apparent issue (shocking, I know) claimed counter protesters at Charlottesville were responsible for a Neo Nazi terrorist attack on US soil, and Republicans felt the need to peddle that one too. Sure, The Leader told us so it must be true.

- In 2016 he claimed Obama founded ISIS, and that Hillary Clinton has been fighting them her entire adult life. Which would mean Obama founded ISIS when he was three years old (when she was 18). Sounds like a bad joke, but hey if you're a Republican... story checks out. They looooved peddling that one during that campaign cycle (the lads in St. Petersburg really had their fingers on the pulse there to be fair to them).

- Ted Cruz's dad assassinated JFK. Yeah, sure, f*** it why not? The Leader said it so it's true.

- The unemployment rate is 42% (2016)... weird, I've not heard that metric used since oh, about January 20th, 2018.

And you can deny this all you want, but Trump himself has even said as much when bragging “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters”. And you know what? He's proven to be largely correct on that one. There is literally nothing the guy could say that tens of millions of Americans wouldn't get behind, from "the sky is purple and the sun is green because Obama" to "if black players want to cause so much trouble in the NFL, maybe the league should just ban them" - the latter wouldn't even cause a furrowed brow of surprise from me at this point, to be honest.

I never mentioned Weeden or Hundley at any time. I did state that imo he isn't a good QB but the way some people were talking he should be starting which I don't agree with. I don't think there are many places where he would be a good backup either.

Apologies as I had mixed up Hundley with Matt Flynn who had been out of the league for two years:

Eagle Eye: I'd rate Weeden as a better QB than Kaepernick.

Eagle Eye: Matt Flynn is out there, he has done a job for the Packers before, I think he would be a far more attractive target.

Well Trump is the President of the United States of America so his word is important. I know you are anti-Republican so that probably sickens you.

And thank you for leading in to yet another one... small government, and government interference into private businesses. One of the favourite things to bitch and moan about from Republicans for years now, but the moment The Leader does it... well we must not question The Leader so of course they support it.

Now seeing the reaction to the Constitution and US Flag Code we know full well that those complaining about these protests do not care about them whatsoever (or maybe better put, feel only they should have these rights and not those uppity minorities), it's no surprise to me that this doesn't matter to you or to Republicans either, despite them also loving to claim to be the "party of law and order":

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227
Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

See section b.3 of that, it explicitly states that because he is the president he cannot try to influence the matter, and his words cannot by law be given importance on this matter. In other words Trump broke the law (again) and Republicans are once again cheerleading for it.

We are going down the political route here again. This is sport and business. Sport is supposed to be fun for people to watch and it's not with these protests going on.

And guess what? It's also not fun watching players forced to stand for an anthem and pretend to not have any issues with it. It's also not fun to watch people be silenced because the US President decided to involve himself directly in it, breaking the law in doing so. But clearly that doesn't matter.

Take out of it what you will. I'd be of the opinion that in thirty or forty years people will read about it and say how foolish both sides were.

One side managed to annoy a lot of people by kneeling during the national anthem and the whole point they were trying to make was lost in the furore.

The other side, the NFL, could have eliminated the whole thing by just not having the national anthem played at games.

I agree that they could have avoided it by not having the anthem involved, but they decided to do so and in the process brought politics into the sport. And then the US President get involved further, probably breaking the law in the process, by directly influencing employment decisions of private entities - if he had not done that, the issue would likely have died off over a few weeks. But he didn't, because the dog whistling opportunity about uppity blacks for his base was as usual, just too much for his fragile ego to pass up on.

The NFL decided to side with him, and along with the likes of soundbites about "inmates running the prison" it really is not going to be remembered well at all and will be something they will want to be forgotten ASAP (especially with growing international audiences).

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think the vast majority of people think it is illegal. I'm fairly sure they are within their rights to do it (dependent on what exactly is in the CBA - though that still wouldn't make it "illegal").

It is utterly cowardly though.

I would disagree a vast majority think its illegal and confuse what constitutional rights means. Well in the US anyways. Both sides of the political fence are guilty of this here.

It doesn't matter what our view is on it and as I said before I think the NFL should be ashamed of themselves but they are within their legal rights to do what they are doing and that is the key here. Your company is not legally bound to allow you to exercise your constitutional rights in the workplace. That was my point.

eagle eye wrote: »

No use responding to everything but this piece is important.

There are millions of Americans unhappy with kneeling who don't have agendas. You seem to think that a lot of people are more intelligent than they actually are.

There are many African-Americans that are not happy about the kneeling but who are concerned about police shootings.

Just as an aside, if you are going to walk away from football over political/social issues I pity you. Sport is supposed to be an escape from all that stuff. Stop following the social side of the sport and stick with the football.

I watch the game because I love it. It's a sport and it's fun. I don't read TMZ or any of the other crap magazines which talk about off the field. Unfortunately these days you get to hear things even though you do your best to avoid it but even then I try my best to ignore it.

I'm not turning my back on watching the sport, I'm just cancelling my gamepass subscription as soon as that window opens and watching on streams for the season.

The millions of Americans unhappy with it who don't have agendas don't have a reason to be unhappy with it, as it is entirely enshrined and protected in the first amendment and the US flag code. Yet the NFL has sided with them because Trump said so... and I get that they would have been trying to extend an olive branch, but it was done an entirely cowardly manner.

And as is to be expected with Trump, that olive branch has been thrown right back in their face as only days after this he goes and cancels the Eagles' White House visit in as divisive a manner as possible.

"The Philadelphia Eagles are unable to come to the White House with their full team to be celebrated tomorrow," Trump said in a statement. "They disagree with their President because he insists that they proudly stand for the National Anthem, hand on heart, in honor of the great men and women of our military and the people of our country. The Eagles wanted to send a smaller delegation, but the 1,000 fans planning to attend the event deserve better."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1003956743133650944

That's the thing - Trump WANTS this kind of division and goes looking for it almost every single day in one way or another. As the NFL are finding out, currying favour with him just leads to getting your face spat in... which they, and just about everyone, should know is the inevitable outcome, time and again.

And lo-and-behold, the propaganda machine is already churning out the lies:



Fox News falsely implies praying Eagles were protesting, and the players aren't having it

As the anchor delivers the story, images of Eagles players are shown on screen. The first three photos are of players (Zach Ertz, Corey Clement and Jordan Matthews) kneeling — but they’re praying before games, not kneeling during the national anthem. The fourth is of Malcolm Jenkins and Rodney McLeod raising their fists during the national anthem, while Chris Long puts his arm around Jenkins.

Ertz and Long responded on their personal Twitter accounts and accused the outlet of pushing the agenda of the president with false information.

https://twitter.com/ZERTZ_86/status/1003970728008519680

https://twitter.com/JOEL9ONE/status/1003990054505730048

notobtuse wrote: »

I live in Eagles country (half way between Philadelphia and New York City but in PA). Too many Eagles fans, some Giants fans, and almost no Jets fans.  We even get a free cup of coffee at all the Dunkin Donuts here the day after an Eagles win. Let me tell you... A lot of their fans DO feel the Eagles disrespected many of their fans beliefs by shunning a White House visit (and living near Amish country... shunning is never considered a good thing).

Why do people have to be forced to respect trump?. He doesn't respect them.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Btw the patriots didn't all attend last year and trump didn't cancel or put out a statement saying that the "patriots abandoned their fans" of course he didn't because it didnt suit his message.

I misread what you said my apologies. I thought you said they all didnt go.

Tell me how wrote: »

Wow. Way to make people feel welcome.

It's also my second post Columbo. Why not read my first and lose the rag over that one as well.

Lose the rag? :pac:

No deal for Leveon Bell, he'll play under the franchise tag again. His agent says itll likely be his last season as a Steeler.

I may have posted that in the wrong thread. My bad.

Well done NFL, I'm hope you're happy with the outcome of your pandering. Sure there's absolutely no way whatsoever that this was the entirely obvious outcome the moment they lubed up and bent over. It's also illegal for the president of the US to get involved in private businesses affairs, but sure laws stopped mattering in that country over a year ago.