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MiGs for Ireland?

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    #32
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Yeah apart from not being built, they are ground support airplanes, designed for bombing the crap out of Tanks in Germany (or anything else they need to post 91), but for air defence, they are 300 knot airframes, the bears could outfly them with ease...
    This is true, but they'd be great to use as support for any "peacekeeping" missions that our troops do overseas.


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    #33
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Right now pretty much all the UAV's in operation are designed for air to ground not air to air, there's also again speed issues (ie the latest Predator variant, the Avenger is 200 km/h slower than the Bears), so again I fail to see how UAV's could meet such a requirement.

    UAVs can be armed with stinger missiles, which would take out any plane, with a fleet of them you could have a number that could be scrambled at very short notice, and patrol at the same time which would create a very effective boundary.


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    #34
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Well this is Walter Mitty forum and I didn't want to post it in the normal Ireland air defence thread..

    Anyway I'm a big fan of eastern militaria, always have been and I've often wondered what sort of air force and army Ireland could build if they were able to purchase cheaper russian/soviet equipment?

    There is still plenty of russian gear in what are now EU countries that could be available in a few years so if Ireland needed to make a proper even if largely symbolic attempt to defend it's airspace and ignoring the politics, could MiG-29s provide a cheap possibility?

    Back in the early 90's the newly-reformed Luftwaffe found out the hard way that a MiG-29 almost needed a new engine every time it took off, and that the resup engines - still in their crates - were not fit to fit. OTG/INA ratio was a crushing EIGHT times that of a contemporary F-16.

    Still, it's not my money, go ahead and buy as many as you want to.

    The countless articles on the true horror story of the MiG-29 in front-line service with a REAL daily-flying air force like the Luftwaffe [both of our G*dsons served, one a pilot and the other a WSO] would stretch from here to the moon and back, but don't let real experience cloud anybody's judgement.

    tac


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    #35
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    UAVs can be armed with stinger missiles, which would take out any plane, with a fleet of them you could have a number that could be scrambled at very short notice, and patrol at the same time which would create a very effective boundary.

    Yeah, the Stinger is a MANPAD, not much different to the system we have right now, it's not a true air to air system. And again a quick look says only the first Predator variant is rated to carry them right now, it's top speed is 117 knots, and can only get up to 25,000 feet (the Reaper might be testing for carrying but again can only fly at 260 knots, again to slow to intercept a Bear) so I have no idea how you intend to "scramble" them since it would serve no purpose. Right now the current UAV's couldn't get within Stinger range of a Bear unless the Bear flew to it and down to it, which isn't going to happen.


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    #36
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    tac foley wrote: »
    Back in the early 90's the newly-reformed Luftwaffe found out the hard way that a MiG-29 almost needed a new engine every time it took off, and that the resup engines - still in their crates - were not fit to fit. OTG/INA ratio was a crushing EIGHT times that of a contemporary F-16.

    Still, it's not my money, go ahead and buy as many as you want to.

    The countless articles on the true horror story of the MiG-29 in front-line service with a REAL daily-flying air force like the Luftwaffe [both of our G*dsons served, one a pilot and the other a WSO] would stretch from here to the moon and back, but don't let real experience cloud anybody's judgement.

    tac
    It's just out of personal interest and a bit of fun, I'm not going to submit a paper to the DF afterwards or anything :D All information is welcome as I was never that interested in air forces before, beyond helicopters

    All I knew was Germany literally gave them away, I just assumed for political reasons. Did your godson get to fly any of the NVA planes?

    I did read that the Slovaks were planning to replace them recently with Gripens but in the end had to extend the liftetime of their migs by another few years, money must be tight I guess.


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    #37
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I did read that the Slovaks were planning to replace them recently with Gripens but in the end had to extend the liftetime of their migs by another few years, money must be tight I guess.

    It could be they didn't like the options that Sweden was putting forward for the Gripens, or they want to delay a bit until the NG version is coming online which might mean Sweden may give better deals on the older variants they are replacing...


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    #38
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    The bear is a monstrosity and is ridiculously slow, MQ-9 Reapers would be more than capable in interception. Not only that it could be effectively used as unmanned surveillance in rural Ireland, where currently places are being staked out by criminals using drones.


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    #39
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    The bear is a monstrosity and is ridiculously slow, MQ-9 Reapers would be more than capable in interception. Not only that it could be effectively used as unmanned surveillance in rural Ireland, where currently places are being staked out by criminals using drones.

    The Bear's top speed is over 500 knots, which is much more than both the common Predator variants (for example they used to use a trick to out run Jets in the Cold War), Reapers have a top speed of 260 knots (operational is mid 100 knots), please explain how they could make an interception? Or get within the sub 10 km range of a Stinger?

    Again the current UAV's are designed, built and armed to loiter in permissive airspace and lob Hellfires and smart bombs mainly at easy targets, they are not designed or intended for air to air combat, the programs for such UCAV's are only starting and are still years away from any operational usage.

    As for the "unmanned surveillance of rural Ireland" even for the Mitty thread that's out there, what next should we start using the Hellfires against speeders or drink drivers? I mean it would be a hell of a Road Safety Campaign, just see the Minister for Justice and Transport going "don't speed or the drone will kill you!"


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    #40
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    riffmongous wrote: »
    All I knew was Germany literally gave them away, I just assumed for political reasons. Did your godson get to fly any of the NVA planes?

    The Luftwaffe REALLY tried to integrate them inot the fleet, but it was hopeless from the start. The Migs were impossible to maintain in flying condition for many reasons, not least of which was the near-total lack of reliable spares. They were as fuel efficient as a money-fired power station, and the electronics were paleolithic, no matter what anybody tells you. The FCR was fatally flawed, literally. The side-lobes off the operating set would fry the technicians while they tried to fix them.

    And no, they were both in the same squadron, flying ECM Phantoms and then Tornadoes out of Aurach, Bavaria.

    tac


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    #41
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Sure why not......

    Albania auctions off 40 communist-era aircraft
    The items for sale include 10 Mig-19s, six Mig-21s, six Yak-18s and four Mi-4 helicopters.


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    #42
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    The price of all this sh1t is just so incredible. Would eat through Dennis o'briens fortune in a couple of years handy.
    Only yesterday I was reading the US are replenishing their bombs arsenal after it got depleted through Middle East campaign in something called European Reassurance Program or such. Like put them into Poland and the likes for a while for 'reassurance' against the evil Vlad.
    Anyway they were talking about $1.8 billion for 45,000 bombs. That's roughly $40,000 a pop which is like a BMW 3 series. I dare say had they dropped 45,000 3 series on Syria that war would be over cos all those Isis lads would be driving around happily in their new 3 series instead of beheading people.
    Just goes to show what big a con all this is out of the people's pockets.


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    #43
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    Boskowski wrote: »
    The price of all this sh1t is just so incredible. Would eat through Dennis o'briens fortune in a couple of years handy.
    Only yesterday I was reading the US are replenishing their bombs arsenal after it got depleted through Middle East campaign in something called European Reassurance Program or such. Like put them into Poland and the likes for a while for 'reassurance' against the evil Vlad.
    Anyway they were talking about $1.8 billion for 45,000 bombs. That's roughly $40,000 a pop which is like a BMW 3 series. I dare say had they dropped 45,000 3 series on Syria that war would be over cos all those Isis lads would be driving around happily in their new 3 series instead of beheading people.
    Just goes to show what big a con all this is out of the people's pockets.

    So your plan for the middle east "BMW 3 series for all! BMW servicing franchises for others!"?

    given the demographic of your average ISIS volunteer this could work! :D


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    #44
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Boskowski wrote: »
    Anyway they were talking about $1.8 billion for 45,000 bombs. That's roughly $40,000 a pop

    That would be a very good price for munitions as things stand.

    For example, the US DOD has budgeted for 12,000+ JDAMs to be built in 2016... average unit price is $45k


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    #45
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Sure why not......

    Albania auctions off 40 communist-era aircraft
    I might pop down and grab a few for myself :pac:


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