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Hambini vs Cervelo

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    #32
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,494 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    Until then, any comment he makes on a wheels aero properties has to be viewed as impartial.
    uh, no.

    i'm not saying he's not impartial, and i'm not saying he is. i'm saying you do not - and should not - 'have to' view him as impartial.


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    #33
    dermabrasion
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭dermabrasion


    I have my second R5, and while I really love it. But this video was an epiphany for me.
    My 1st R5 started creaking after about 6 months. I left it into cycleways and had the BB replaced. That lasted about a month and they refitted it. I put the bike away over the winter to take it out in Spring and it sounded like two old-ones having sex on a 4-poster bed.
    Went into Hollingsworth and they said the spotted a BB flaw, which was under warranty. I was offered an S5 or a replacement R5. I took the R5, which took ages to arrive. Well into mid summer when it arrived. Built it up and the creaking came back by the end of the year. Hollingworth put another BB.
    Last year, I went to get a re-spray, and stripped it down. LBS called me to say the BB / bearings were toast and needed to be replaced, which I did after the respray.
    This BB has lasted me a year. What ever way it has been set up, it's working.
    Couple of notes
    1. There is a definitive problem and alway has been this way. Cannot believe they have not solved it. This would put me off getting another, and I really love mine.
    2. The bike is otherwise fantastic. It handles so well and I have done serious days on it as well as Race Around Ireland, Vets leagues, Club league and A4 mayhem. It owes me nothing if it was to break tomorrow I got my moneys worth.


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    #34
    hesker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭hesker


    dermabrasion wrote: »

    1. There is a definitive problem and alway has been this way. Cannot believe they have not solved it. This would put me off getting another, and I really love mine.

    If I followed this guy Hambini’s video correctly he’s stating that not only have they not fixed it, they caused the problem in the first place by relaxing tolerances in order to save money.


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    #35
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    hesker wrote: »
    If I followed this guy Hambini’s video correctly he’s stating that not only have they not fixed it, they caused the problem in the first place by relaxing tolerances in order to save money.

    Apparently so.


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    #36
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,822 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    If true it's extraordinarily and inexplicably silly of them. They're selling premium priced frame in a hotly contested market off the back of nothing whatsoever only public perception of quality. A perception which can very easily and quickly swing the other way.


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    #37
    dermabrasion
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭dermabrasion


    It could be the death of a premium brand. Even-though this problem might have started on the watch of Vroomen and White, the innovation they brought to bikes was avant-garde. They popularised the aero-bike with the soloist, and progressed to further innovations which are now everywhere today. Because they are everywhere, no-one will take poor quality when paying this price.
    Since the 2 lads left, the forward momentum of Cervelo seem to have stalled to and are milking the same formula to make money. But quality is clearly a blind spot, or they don't care enough.
    I think this problem probably common knowledge with serious retailers and mechanics, that they do not want have a bunch of upset costumers.
    Pon can sue Hambini, but he will have a pretty good data to support himself.


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    #38
    dave_o_brien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭dave_o_brien


    Harrybelafonte wrote: »
    He does. But I think that any online presence, especially on YT, these days which is based on, even in part, in contending the position of others and creating any kind of hullabaloo which causes videos to go viral, even in a limited market should be treated with some cynicism.

    It would be interesting to see if his YT vids are monetized too.

    I don’t have any engineering knowledge and can’t stake a side in the game either way. I just feel that painting him as a dogooder standing up to big business or any similar selfless act is dishonest by omission.

    I don't think he really views himself like that though. I don't think he believes he's a hero to the everyman at all.

    My take is that he's very eccentric. He's incredibly intelligent and knows more about aerodynamics than most bicycle engineers. When he hears questionable "evidence" he calls it into question, but is lacking in an ability to appreciate nuance.

    Where I think he's particularly unusual is the polarity he applies to things. Flo state results showing a favourable aero performance based on a system he believes to be flawed and they're not "limiting the test parameters based on available technology" they're "obviously c**tbag shysters intent on bullsh**ting everyone". Especially when the actual difference in performance is 6 or 7 watts. The vitriol he espouses and the total commitment he has to his beliefs is... well, entertaining but a bit nuts.

    That said, Cervelo have relaxed manufacturing tolerances. That's a fact. That is appalling QC behaviour.


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    #39
    dave_o_brien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭dave_o_brien


    dermabrasion wrote: »
    can sue Hambini, but he will have a pretty good data to support himself.

    This is the kernel; if you sue him, he has to be wrong in order for you to win. If he really has done all this testing, then he probably won't be wrong, so sue away!

    If he hasn't, he's on record for a serious amount of libel.


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    #40
    Paddigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    dave_o_brien wrote: »
    This is the kernel; if you sue him, he has to be wrong in order for you to win. If he really has done all this testing, then he probably won't be wrong, so sue away!

    If he hasn't, he's on record for a serious amount of libel.

    Without wanting to get into semantics, I broadly agree with your comment but there is a limit. All the data and testing in the world won't help him prove that any given manufacturer are a "c**tbag shysters intent on bullsh**ting everyone".

    There's a difference between 1) saying a claim is incorrect and 2) saying an incorrect claim is evidence of deliberate deception/ fraud.

    Muddy waters, that's all I'm saying really. Good luck to the guy.


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    #41
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,494 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    dave_o_brien wrote: »
    This is the kernel; if you sue him, he has to be wrong in order for you to win.
    no - if you sue him, he has to be wrong - or to be unable to prove he's right (in a court of law) for you to win.


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    #42
    Acquiescence
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭Acquiescence


    I'd like to see somebody define a c*ntbag in a libel case!


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