Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

SafeSurfer · 19-09-2019 9:41am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Republican violence defending communities under attack is one thing. The stated aim of Republican violence to end the British presence in the 6 counties was a dismal failure.

Just because some black taxis with tricolours drove around after the IRA cessation of violence carrying people shouting “we won the war” does not make it a fact. The cessation of the campaign of violence was an acknowledgement of its failure and futility. Something that Adams and Mc Guinness had realized by the mid 70’s.

What could “Irish” politicians, and by Irish I presume you mean free state politicians have done? What would you have liked them to do?

There’s no way the IRA won, I don’t think they lost either. They were a necessity to protect their communities as democracy and politicians absolutely failed them.

The Irish state should have taken a hard line against the British State. Look at how strong a stance the Govt are taking against the Backstop? The effort, intelligence and application going into it is fantastic, to date FG are playing a blinder in relation to it.

However, STILL when it comes to nationalist communities and the problems there, or getting the Assembly up and running them they’re useless... and intentionally so due to their fear of SF electoral success. Everything they do to put SF down they do... now that might not be a problem to some but the collateral damage to nationalists in the 06 is unforgivable. FG constantly reach out to the unionist community (see Jeffrey Donaldson at FG are fheis) yet ignore or sideline the nationalist community.

We must remember that the IRA didn’t recognize the Irish State until the late 80’s and regarded the IRA army council as the legitimate government of the whole island.

SF itself is doing the damage to the nationalist community, abdicating it’s responsibility just when their constituents need them most.

It’s not up to others to get the assembly up and running. It’s up to the parties like Sinn a Féin to show leadership rather than constantly playing the blame game.

weldoninhio · 19-09-2019 9:49am

holyhead wrote: »

His membership or otherwise of the IRA is now an academic question. It seems implausible that he wasn't. His moving the republican movement from violence to peaceful means of pursuing their objective is admirable and helped bring about the peace in Northern Ireland. His past is understandably of interest to historians. We will probably never know the true extent of his involvement with the IRA. The peace in N.I. will probably serve as his legacy. The IRA's campaign was ultimately futile and and unnecessary.

You think that without bringing the bombing campaign to England that the British govt would have sat down for peace talks??

JohnnyFlash · 19-09-2019 9:51am

I hear Gerry is getting very forgetful these days. And he’s a man who has an awful lot to forget.

FrancieBrady · 19-09-2019 10:05am

What ever happened to Gerry Adams? Did they all get him in the end?

Hilarious, that this old chestnut emerges to energise certain people again, as Soldier F's case finally gets into a court.

Donnielighto · 19-09-2019 10:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least McGuinness had the stones to own up, Adams is a spineless jellyfish.

Didnt McGuinness get convicted and say he wasnt a member afterwards. The entire party are duplicitous hypocritical terrorists.

Donnielighto · 19-09-2019 10:12am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Your waffle on it. It wasn't enough most thought he was or thought it likely, we have to put up with the blarney too.
He wasn't as far as the law is concerned or they would have arrested him for it. We can surmise and tell anecdotes all day long I suppose.

The republic wouldn't have prosecuted him at any stage bar maybe early 90s though and I feel they'd be more likely to have evidence than the UK.

maccored · 19-09-2019 10:16am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We must remember that the IRA didn’t recognize the Irish State until the late 80’s and regarded the IRA army council as the legitimate government of the whole island.

SF itself is doing the damage to the nationalist community, abdicating it’s responsibility just when their constituents need them most.

It’s not up to others to get the assembly up and running. It’s up to the parties like Sinn a Féin to show leadership rather than constantly playing the blame game.

"abdicating it’s responsibility .." - how so? their responsibility to their voters is to abstain from attending Westminster, which is exactly what they're doing.

SafeSurfer · 19-09-2019 10:19am

maccored wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We must remember that the IRA didn’t recognize the Irish State until the late 80’s and regarded the IRA army council as the legitimate government of the whole island.

SF itself is doing the damage to the nationalist community, abdicating it’s responsibility just when their constituents need them most.

It’s not up to others to get the assembly up and running. It’s up to the parties like Sinn a Féin to show leadership rather than constantly playing the blame game.

"abdicating it’s responsibility .." - how so? their responsibility to their voters is to abstain from attending Westminster, which is exactly what they're doing.

I’m not talking about Westminster. Although they compromised on the abstensionist policy in the republic and Northern Ireland before so it’s probably only a matter of time.

FrancieBrady · 19-09-2019 10:23am

Donnielighto wrote: »

Didnt McGuinness get convicted and say he wasnt a member afterwards. The entire party are duplicitous hypocritical terrorists.

FF, and FG conspired to bury what they all did when we fought for our independence and had a civil war. Who did what, who was in what admissions were locked away and accounts of participation were entirely voluntary.
Not until they were all dead were the transcripts and accounts of what was done released.

We had a conflict/war here for 40 years, and all sides have been less than transparent about what they did, it is par for the course in post conflict situations.
If former members of the IRA are 'duplicitous' then they are in plenty of company on this island.

Danzy · 19-09-2019 10:24am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’m not talking about Westminster. Although they compromised on the abstensionist policy in the republic and Northern Ireland before so it’s probably only a matter of time.

The Sdlp did more to entrench abstention politics in Westminster than the shinners did.

Politically ignored, treated as if they didn't exist, not a deliberate snub but no one there viewed than as worth bothering with.

Doesn't matter who goes over from the Irish side in the North, not as if they'll be listened to.

maccored · 19-09-2019 10:25am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’m not talking about Westminster. Although they compromised on the abstensionist policy in the republic and Northern Ireland before so it’s probably only a matter of time.

then what responsibility are you referring to?

JohnnyFlash · 19-09-2019 10:38am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What ever happened to Gerry Adams? Did they all get him in the end?

Hilarious, that this old chestnut emerges to energise certain people again, as Soldier F's case finally gets into a court.

Conspiracy theory stuff, Francis. You’re spending too long in the online outrage fighting pits.

FrancieBrady · 19-09-2019 10:40am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Conspiracy theory stuff, Francis. You’re spending too long in the online outrage fighting pits.

You aren't doing very well explaining what possible relevance this has Johnny.

You guys need a voodoo doll at this stage.

SafeSurfer · 19-09-2019 10:53am

maccored wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’m not talking about Westminster. Although they compromised on the abstensionist policy in the republic and Northern Ireland before so it’s probably only a matter of time.

then what responsibility are you referring to?

Representing their constituents in the Northern Ireland assembly rather than have laws imposed from Westminster.
The people of the north will probably be most affected by Brexit yet their politicians are too busy engaging in bum fights to prepare for it.

But maybe that is classic SF policy. If they don’t take responsibility they can’t be blamed.

FrancieBrady · 19-09-2019 10:55am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Representing their constituents in the Northern Ireland assembly rather than have laws imposed from Westminster.
The people of the north will probably be most affected by Brexit yet their politicians are too busy engaging in bum fights to prepare for it.

But maybe that is classic SF policy. If they don’t take responsibility they can’t be blamed.

Nobody else is at fault for the Assembly breaking down or the GFA stagnating?

maccored · 19-09-2019 11:06am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Representing their constituents in the Northern Ireland assembly rather than have laws imposed from Westminster.
The people of the north will probably be most affected by Brexit yet their politicians are too busy engaging in bum fights to prepare for it.

But maybe that is classic SF policy. If they don’t take responsibility they can’t be blamed.

but they have stated (only yesterday) that they want to get stormont up and running. The DUP dont. Are you ignoring that on purpose?

Snow Garden · 19-09-2019 11:08am

100% positive he was in the IRA. No question.

Snow Garden · 19-09-2019 11:09am

blanch152 wrote: »

Is he as big a liar as Maria Bailey?

You want her out of public life for exaggerating an insurance claim. That hardly compares to lying about ordering people to be killed.

She lied blanch152.

She did lie.

The running part on the affidavit - that is a lie. There were many others.

tipptom · 19-09-2019 11:43am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We must remember that the IRA didn’t recognize the Irish State until the late 80’s and regarded the IRA army council as the legitimate government of the whole island.

SF itself is doing the damage to the nationalist community, abdicating it’s responsibility just when their constituents need them most.

It’s not up to others to get the assembly up and running. It’s up to the parties like Sinn a Féin to show leadership rather than constantly playing the blame game.

Well you must remember the Irish goverments were acting as an extension and oil rag of the British terrorist organisation/Unionist/loyalist/RUC/UDA/serial killers etc in NI and had abandoned the Irish community's in NI.

If you think SF have abdicated their responsibility to their constituents then you really need to gain some knowledge out side of the FF/FG/Irish media circles about why and what policy's their constituents voted them in on.

When the British goverment implements and show leadership by implementing what they signed up to in the GFA,not to play along and encourage racist,homophobic,sectarian,apartheid,corrupt knuckledraggers that is the DUP then maybe there can be a functioning admistration.

I would have assumed you knew all these facts or if not then your ignorance of politics in NI is breathtaking.

tipptom · 19-09-2019 11:49am

Snow Garden wrote: »

100% positive he was in the IRA. No question.

I think he may have been in the IRA to but haven't the proof of it can you enlighten us with your 100 per cent proof or are you afraid that you may prejudice the case when you take your 100 percent information to the relavant authority's?

maccored · 19-09-2019 11:50am

tipptom wrote: »

ignorance of politics in NI is breathtaking.

In general, I find there are a lot of people who fall into this category on these fora, yet they still insist on making assumptions when it comes to the north.

storker · 19-09-2019 11:59am

I believe he wasn't in the IRA before he was in the IRA and I believe he wasn't in the IRA after he left the IRA, assuming he did leave.

SafeSurfer · 19-09-2019 12:11pm

tipptom wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We must remember that the IRA didn’t recognize the Irish State until the late 80’s and regarded the IRA army council as the legitimate government of the whole island.

SF itself is doing the damage to the nationalist community, abdicating it’s responsibility just when their constituents need them most.

It’s not up to others to get the assembly up and running. It’s up to the parties like Sinn a Féin to show leadership rather than constantly playing the blame game.

Well you must remember the Irish goverments were acting as an extension and oil rag of the British terrorist organisation/Unionist/loyalist/RUC/UDA/serial killers etc in NI and had abandoned the Irish community's in NI.

If you think SF have abdicated their responsibility to their constituents then you really need to gain some knowledge out side of the FF/FG/Irish media circles about why and what policy's their constituents voted them in on.

When the British goverment implements and show leadership by implementing what they signed up to in the GFA,not to play along and encourage racist,homophobic,sectarian,apartheid,corrupt knuckledraggers that is the DUP then maybe there can be a functioning admistration.

I would have assumed you knew all these facts or if not then your ignorance of politics in NI is breathtaking.

I don’t see how a return to direct rule and leaving the sole representation of the people of Northern Ireland to 10 DUP MPs is fulfilling Sinn Feins role of representing their constituents.

Of course the government in the republic did not give succor to the provisionals as they sought to overthrow the government in the republic as well.

I find a lot of commentators are so blinkered by their own prejudice their political analysis amounts to no more than regurgitated party dogma.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

markodaly · 19-09-2019 12:25pm

careless sherpa wrote: »

The logic is that he could still be prosecuted and serve two years. What is so hard to understand about that. He would be a fool to send himself to prison just so some people who despise him anyway could say I told you so.

This is nonesense. Gerry would never have been sent to prison for admitting his membership. If in doubt he could have announced it in the Dail. It is a smokescrean

He lies, because if he admitted it, the next question would be about his orders to execute women and the bombs he ordered planted that killed innocent kids.

Instead, he just denies all reality of what he was actually up to.

I know our resident Republican apologists are saying, "what's the big deal?", but I guess they will change their tune when soldier F is sitting in the dock.

Only a few months ago, we had a judicial inquest give the verdict of unlawful killings of 21 innocent civilians in Birmingham, which recommended that the perpetrators of the atrocity be brought to justice.

No one from the IRA has been charged let alone convicted of that little number. Gerry certainly knows information about this and should share it with the relevant authorities, but will he? Will he ****!

That is the type of psychopath we are dealing with. Protecting is own kind is more important than the families seeking justice.

maccored · 19-09-2019 12:26pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t see how a return to direct rule and leaving the sole representation of the people of Northern Ireland to 10 DUP MPs is fulfilling Sinn Feins role of representing their constituents.

Of course the government in the republic did not give succor to the provisionals as they sought to overthrow the government in the republic as well.

I find a lot of commentators are so blinkered by their own prejudice their political analysis amounts to no more than regurgitated party dogma.

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

how are SF going to get the DUP to go back to powersharing? You are ignoring that elephant. Before accusing others of having a blinkered prejudice, maybe you should tackle your own prejudice first.

I'll ask again - considering SF have stated they want to get back to Stormont and powersharing, and the DUP are refusing, how are SF going to get the DUP to go back to Stormont?

Its up to the DUP to do that surely, not SF? Its the DUPs decision after all (nevermind the theft they were involved in)

maccored · 19-09-2019 12:27pm

markodaly wrote: »

This is nonesense. Gerry would never have been sent to prison for admitting his membership. If in doubt he could have announced it in the Dail. It is a smokescrean

He lies, because if he admitted it, the next question would be about his orders to execute women and the bombs he ordered planted that killed innocent kids.

Instead, he just denies all reality of what he was actually up to.

I know our resident Republican apologists are saying, "what's the big deal?", but I guess they will change their tune when soldier F is sitting in the dock.

Only a few months ago, we had a judicial inquest give the verdict of unlawful killings of 21 innocent civilians in Birmingham, which recommended that the perpetrators of the atrocity be brought to justice.

No one from the IRA has been charged let alone convicted of that little number. Gerry certainly knows information about this and should share it with the relevant authorities, but will he? Will he ****!

That is the type of psychopath we are dealing with. Protecting is own kind is more important than the families seeking justice.

he wouldnt be arrested if he admitted to being a member of an illegal organisation? how do you work that out?

Bellerstring · 19-09-2019 12:33pm

Who gives a fuq.?

Fionn1952 · 19-09-2019 12:40pm

tipptom wrote: »

Snow Garden wrote: »

100% positive he was in the IRA. No question.

I think he may have been in the IRA to but haven't the proof of it can you enlighten us with your 100 per cent proof or are you afraid that you may prejudice the case when you take your 100 percent information to the relavant authority's?

Anecdotal evidence would hardly be enough to secure a conviction, Tom.

After a childhood in Fermanagh, I spent quite a few years in Andytown in West Belfast. Everyone and their dog there would laugh at the suggestion Gerry wasn't in the IRA. Knowing and proving it are two different things. Having evidence of it and wanting to provide that to the British state is altogether different too. Many in the first category, more than a few in the latter.

There's also a very large group, arguably larger than those two who THINK they know, but just heard it so many times in the Roddys or the Felons etc, that they believe it.

markodaly · 19-09-2019 12:42pm

maccored wrote: »

he wouldnt be arrested if he admitted to being a member of an illegal organisation? how do you work that out?

Dail privilege. It's a total smokescreen for him to excuse his pathological lies.

osarusan · 19-09-2019 1:31pm

markodaly wrote: »

Dail privilege. It's a total smokescreen for him to excuse his pathological lies.

Dail privilege doesn't extend as far as you think it does.

Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

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