Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 9:46am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Part of the vanity that goes with one off houses, make sure the house is visible everywhere.
Anyway families with sometimes 10 children were raised in 2 bedroom terraces in the towns and cities and somehow they managed.

not very helpful

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 9:51am

jay28 wrote: »

So our planning permission has went in once more today having been refused a few months ago.
My wife qualifies for the local needs

The main reason we were rejected was we own our own house and they said our housing needs are me

Has anyone managed to get planning permission who already own a house?

different councils have different interpretations of the 'local need' policy.

Planning authorities im familiar with would consider your local need met by "having owned, or been granted permission for, a dwelling in a rural area of the county"

what local authority are you looking at jay28?

jay28 · 19-04-2019 10:03am

sydthebeat wrote: »

different councils have different interpretations of the 'local need' policy.

Planning authorities im familiar with would consider your local need met by "having owned, or been granted permission for, a dwelling in a rural area of the county"

what local authority are you looking at jay28?

It would be Wexford county council. The frustrating thing is that we thought we were doing the right thing by purchasing a house and providing security for our family, if we had of known owning a house would rule us our of building in s local area we would of just rented.

I guess time will tell

sydthebeat · 19-04-2019 10:22am

jay28 wrote: »

It would be Wexford county council. The frustrating thing is that we thought we were doing the right thing by purchasing a house and providing security for our family, if we had of known owning a house would rule us our of building in s local area we would of just rented.

I guess time will tell

ive had a quick look through wexfords 2013-2019 development plan and there doesnt appear to be any prescribed restriction to anyone having owned a previous house.... though that doesnt mean that the planners do not enforce such an understanding of "local need"

if thats how wexford planners view the policy in the particular zoning of your site... your only option may be to go as far as An Bord Pleanala for a determination.

jay28 · 19-04-2019 10:30am

sydthebeat wrote: »

ive had a quick look through wexfords 2013-2019 development plan and there doesnt appear to be any prescribed restriction to anyone having owned a previous house.... though that doesnt mean that the planners do not enforce such an understanding of "local need"

if thats how wexford planners view the policy in the particular zoning of your site... your only option may be to go as far as An Bord Pleanala for a determination.

Thanks for that, I suppose they look at each case individually, if we have to we will go An Bord Pleanala, hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks again

Reputable Rog · 19-04-2019 10:40am

jay28 wrote: »

Thanks for that, I suppose they look at each case individually, if we have to we will go An Bord Pleanala, hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks again

The policy as set out in the Wexford Development plan is distinctly unclear. Housing need is not defined in the plan.
Attend a Planning clinic and tease out the options. Another option is to apply for outline permission and try and establish the principle of development on a site.

jay28 · 19-04-2019 2:30pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The policy as set out in the Wexford Development plan is distinctly unclear. Housing need is not defined in the plan.
Attend a Planning clinic and tease out the options. Another option is to apply for outline permission and try and establish the principle of development on a site.

We applied for a pre planning meeting, 8 weeks passed and we heard nothing back, so our local Td inquired for us, they said we didn't need a planning meeting, we just had to address the issues for which we we're rejected first time around.

They said our housing needs were met, and that my wife showed she went to school etc there but never proved she lived there.
Also there was an issue with the size of the first site.
All above issues have been addressed.
We have letters this time around from local priest, youth club, schools etc and also have a larger 1 acre site with is down in the hollow and can't be seen.

Anyway it's just a waiting game now, hopefully they will look at our circumstances possitivly

weshtawake · 23-04-2019 3:51pm

Planning Question - reposting (no reply to the original!)

I am considering buying a site on the outskirts of Galway (within the city bounds).
There is a large old style galvanised hay shed on the site. My question is will it be easier to get PP by informing the authority that I would be knocking the shed and replacing with a dwelling. Note that this is my first house - I am currently renting.

sydthebeat · 23-04-2019 4:35pm

weshtawake wrote: »

Planning Question - reposting (no reply to the original!)

I am considering buying a site on the outskirts of Galway (within the city bounds).
There is a large old style galvanised hay shed on the site. My question is will it be easier to get PP by informing the authority that I would be knocking the shed and replacing with a dwelling. Note that this is my first house - I am currently renting.

no... it will make no difference at all

froggy1985 · 05-06-2019 9:14am

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

Myself and my wife recently purchased a site subject to planning. The pre-planning process was the council calling our architect and we had no input whatsoever, the feedback we received was very brief.

Ultimately the council have said that they "may" consider this backland development and refuse an application due to the fact that the site is behind another site which "may" be used for development in future. There are no houses on this land currently and is separated from our site by a very tall and dense mature tree line and ditch. We have spoken to the landowner of the adjoining site (originally with a view to buying it) and he has no intention whatsoever of selling this land for development, or any other reason, at any point, as it is used for farming. He also has no objection to us building behind it.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with anything similar (backlands) and how we might reduce the chance of being refused a full planning application on this basis, or if I am completely goosed if this was the council's first reaction..?

Would asking the adjoining landholder to agree to sterilisation of the "problem" land (with a payment) make any difference? It is around 1 acre of a much larger overall landholding and I suspect he would have no issue agreeing to doing this, particularly if we greased his palm a little and covered any costs.

Thanks

jonny_b1 · 25-08-2019 8:57pm

We are sale subject to planning on a site. It's in a village,residential zoned area but sewage and water are quite a bit away from the site. Initial contact with Irish water indicates that with the base fee it includes 10m of connection. The actual connection would be almost 30 meters away at a cost of 500 per meter. So approx 15k total for the connection. We have been told also that as we are in a residential area no planning for a septic tank will be allowed.

Anyone come across anything similar?

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 12:38pm

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 1:48pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Yes

Jonybgud · 04-09-2019 3:25pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Can you make further submissions on a planning application?

I.e. a submission is made, the planning authority ask for more information, can you submit further observations once this additional information has been provided by the applicant?

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 3:51pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

Correct, I should have elaborated. It's a pretty poor provision though.

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 3:51pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

Only if the FI is deemed to be significant and has to be advertised as such, otherwise, no.

That's an interesting angle - thanks.

This involves an individual who appears a bit vexed about the whole application generally.

The FI was fairly straightforward stuff that doesn't need to be advertised as such. They've sent in a further submission to pick holes with the FI and also to refer back to things mentioned in the original observation that the Chief Executive's report had no issue with, in fact they've asked the planners to consider them again in their future considerations.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 3:55pm

hardybuck wrote: »

That's an interesting angle - thanks.

This involves an individual who appears a bit vexed about the whole application generally.

The FI was fairly straightforward stuff that doesn't need to be advertised as such. They've sent in a further submission to pick holes with the FI and also to refer back to things mentioned in the original observation that the Chief Executive's report had no issue with, in fact they've asked the planners to consider them again in their future considerations.

Happens a lot, wouldn't worry about it. Don't know why there's a CE report for a Planning application though.

hardybuck · 04-09-2019 4:02pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Happens a lot, wouldn't worry about it. Don't know why there's a CE report for a Planning application though.

Apologies, the Planning Officer's Report as contained in the Record of Executive Business and Chief Executive's Order is what I should be referring to there.

Presumably they'll try and find something to go to ABP with as well.

Reputable Rog · 04-09-2019 8:26pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Apologies, the Planning Officer's Report as contained in the Record of Executive Business and Chief Executive's Order is what I should be referring to there.

Presumably they'll try and find something to go to ABP with as well.

Well if they submitted a valid objection they're perfectly entitled to, bit of an inconvenience but at least it stops spurious appeals.

cnocbui · 26-09-2019 3:29am

I bought a house in a rural location in 2002. I have been looking into selling it, but have run into a problem regarding the need for a certificate of compliance with planning requirements

The original Planning document calls for existing mature trees bordering the road and one boundary to be retained and for an entrance to be made between the trees. However, the planning site map shows the trees bordering the road as being 5-7m in from the road and the plan calls for removing the existing boundary wall, where trees permit , and creating a new boundary wall set back from the road.

The trees actually are only back from the road by the thickness of the original field boundary wall. The plan showing a set back road fronting boundary wall with trees behind it is unachievable, given the requirement to retain the trees, which are actually right on the road.

Removing the 6 large mature trees, existing wall and then excavating the ground, which is a good 0.8m or so higher than the road level and then building a new boundary wall would be a large and significant undertaking. I think doing that would significantly spoil the amenity and be ecologically destructive.

Who should I talk to about this and what do you think is the likely outcome?

sydthebeat · 26-09-2019 7:42am

Talk to the roads engineers about the required sight lines in that road at that point.

Check to see what you have.

If you haven't the required sight lines, make an application to alter your entrance / boundary to achieve same.

Do the work, get the certificate.

Sell the house.

realflash1982 · 22-10-2019 11:28am

Looking for some planning advice but appreciate it differs by authority.

It has been over a year now since we had a pre-plan meeting with our local coco about a site in a rural area.

The pre-plan meeting was favourable and we received an acknowledgment letter outlining what was needed to support a planning application.

Sight lines, prove local need, Irish Water Pre Connection agreement, Demonstrate waste water can be treated.

It was also mentioned that our site was 50m from an area of greater sensitivity and an AA report may be required.

We took on board the AA report suggestion and went and got it, and thankfully it came back all clear.

It was also stressed to us in the meeting that no longer is it acceptable to include letters from local schools and GAA clubs to prove our local need, it needed to be concrete evidence, government letters, current lease agreements etc, folio maps of home place.

We put together a comprehensive local need document and submitted a planning application earlier this year.

We received confirmation of our refusal a number of weeks ago.

The first issue was under the rural housing policy. It turns out they could not use our local need document as it contained information that was marked as private.

Secondly they have refused our application under 'linear development'. This is a new issue that they have brought in and it was not a problem brought up or mentioned in the pre-plan. They are now saying that the this cannot be addressed even though the sites are infill sites and not extension.

We asked to speak with them to address the issues raised and we were advised to wait the four weeks after refusal for the appeal process to pass. Now we are being told a direct no on a second application, and our appeal window has gone.

Surely there must be some accountability ? We have spent thousands based on the initial favourable pre-plan, only for something new to be raised on our refusal and now being told we should never have even applied.

At a complete loss

Jonybgud · 22-10-2019 12:05pm

You most certainly can make another planning application, try to address the issues they refused you on, the housing need (use school and local letters even if the LA don't regard them ABP may do so).

The council will most likely refuse again but you can appeal it this time and explain to the bord that you would have appealed the first time but the LA prevented you from doing so.

rayjdav · 22-10-2019 1:39pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

The council will most likely refuse again but you can appeal it this time and explain to the bord that you would have appealed the first time but the LA prevented you from doing so.

That is confusing??

How did the LA prevent them from appealing?

Jonybgud · 22-10-2019 2:38pm

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

realflash1982 · 22-10-2019 3:17pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

I can't say if it was intentional or not but we put in the call on day one after refusal to have a chat, we were told to call back in 4 weeks when they could discuss it with us, there was no mention of us wasting our time or anything.

Called back in the day after the 4 weeks were up to be told it does not look like we can address the issue.

Pretty frustrating, we would have had excellent grounds to appeal one of the reasons for refusal but instead tried to stay on side with them by avoid ABP.

Gumbo · 22-10-2019 9:00pm

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

They are legally not allowed sit or talk or discuss the application with you during the appeal period.

This is a well known fact and the agent should have explained this to you.

rayjdav · 23-10-2019 12:10am

Jonybgud wrote: »

I don't see the confusion. I've seen LA's do this before now.

They refuse planning, they won't take a sit down to discuss it before you make an appeal, they ask you to wait the 4 weeks and then refuse to discuss it. It's disgusting behaviour, very sneaky, sly and underhanded and makes it look like there are lots of refusals on the one site.

Bad information to the client by agent tbh. Procedure is there for all to follow. There is information attached to any decision issued on the appeals procedure on how/when/what to do if you disagree with outcome. Nowhere on the info sheet does it say "come in and have a chat". If this was the case we would all do it and save months waiting for ABP. As above, council cannot discuss live case in 4 week period.

Jonybgud · 23-10-2019 8:36am

Thanks for the above information.

Is it possible that you could direct me to the section of the planning and development act that legally stops a meeting between applicant and planner within the 4 week appeals period? It would be very helpful to correct my own interpretation.

Everyday we learn something new.

woohoo!!! · 24-10-2019 3:10pm

There's no legal impediment in the planning act re the 4 week appeal period. It is practice that after a decision no council will talk to the applicant while the appeal period is live. They can afterwards but this can just be a phone call, there's no obligation to set up a sit down meeting.

As regards private information to confirm local needs, you need to redact the private information on a letter say from Revenue, they just want the address and a date, confirming you have lived there since whatever date. They don't want and cannot make public the details of the letter from Revenue, as in that info is private and GDPR rules.

realflash1982 · 24-10-2019 3:59pm

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There's no legal impediment in the planning act re the 4 week appeal period. It is practice that after a decision no council will talk to the applicant while the appeal period is live. They can afterwards but this can just be a phone call, there's no obligation to set up a sit down meeting.

As regards private information to confirm local needs, you need to redact the private information on a letter say from Revenue, they just want the address and a date, confirming you have lived there since whatever date. They don't want and cannot make public the details of the letter from Revenue, as in that info is private and GDPR rules.

All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.

BryanF · 25-10-2019 6:24am

realflash1982 wrote: »

All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.

Suggest this was not the primary reason for refusal.

woohoo!!! · 26-10-2019 2:29pm

realflash1982 wrote: »

All the details other than name,date and address were blurred out on the letters provided. They would have been better off in-validating the application rather than letting it runs its course knowing full well it was an essential part of the application.

Best bet then is contact a local councillor to ask what exactly should be sent in/what will they accept to set out local needs.

realflash1982 · 05-11-2019 11:12am

BryanF wrote: »

Suggest this was not the primary reason for refusal.

You are correct. We have a councillor on the case who has asked some questions and the main issue is linear development which was never raised in a favourable pre-plan thousands of euro's ago. This local need issue has been added to re-inforce the liner development refusal.

Pretty poor on their behalf. They have all of the information to prove the local need but have chosen not to use so that it can be added along with a linear development refusal . As most will know, exceptions can be made to linear development where an applicant is local and has no other land available to them.

Reati · 06-11-2019 11:32am

realflash1982 wrote: »

They have all of the information to prove the local need but have chosen not to use so that it can be added along with a linear development refusal

I'm being a little nosy so feel free to ignore but what is your local need? If the location is outside the Settlement strategy for the area and doesn't meet whats defined as local need are they likely going to drop the local needs thing?

realflash1982 · 07-11-2019 3:26pm

Reati wrote: »

I'm being a little nosy so feel free to ignore but what is your local need? If the location is outside the Settlement strategy for the area and doesn't meet whats defined as local need are they likely going to drop the local needs thing?

My local need is born and grew up in area, still live in area in rented accomodation.
Parents live 2km from proposed site.
Kids in school in the area. All happening within a 2km radius of proposed site.
There is no development plan prohibiting development in this area.

There is a recently granted application less than 1km from our site. Not only is it also linear development, but it extends the pattern. Our site is infill in a line of homes 20 long.

Reati · 07-11-2019 5:01pm

Having been through it myself in the past, I'll play the part of the hardest planner (assuming this is a somewhat rurally area)

realflash1982 wrote: »

My local need is born and grew up in area, still live in area in rented accomodation.
Parents live 2km from proposed site.

This isn't proof you need to live in the area. All that shows is you have a tie to the area but that is not a need. That's why they told you the things that wouldn't be acceptable as they only show a tie, not a need.

Technically, you already have a house (I know it's rented) too, so why do you need to build one. I've heard this one before (and it's completely unfair imo!!)

realflash1982 wrote: »

Kids in school in the area.

There might only a need if there is no suitable housing for sale/rent within a reasonable distance of the school. Think about transport to school and if without living there you'd have to move schools and uproot your kids.

realflash1982 wrote: »

There is no development plan prohibiting development in this area.

Check what the development plan for the area is and if you meet it. All areas have a development plan.

realflash1982 wrote: »

There is a recently granted application less than 1km from our site. Not only is it also linear development, but it extends the pattern. Our site is infill in a line of homes 20 long.

I'd watch using this as a rebuttal if that's a plan. This could harm your chances because a case will be made that that was the last house that could be built and another could be the straw that breaks camels back etc.

They don't approach it with any emotion (nor should they to be fair). Not fully knowing your situation but it is the desire to stop one off house outside established areas.

Best of luck with it and hope you get a good outcome!

realflash1982 · 07-11-2019 5:26pm

Reati wrote: »

Having been through it myself in the past, I'll play the part of the hardest planner (assuming this is a somewhat rurally area)

This isn't proof you need to live in the area. All that shows is you have a tie to the area but that is not a need. That's why they told you the things that wouldn't be acceptable as they only show a tie, not a need.

Technically, you already have a house (I know it's rented) too, so why do you need to build one. I've heard this one before (and it's completely unfair imo!!)

There might only a need if there is no suitable housing for sale/rent within a reasonable distance of the school. Think about transport to school and if without living there you'd have to move schools and uproot your kids.

Check what the development plan for the area is and if you meet it. All areas have a development plan.

I'd watch using this as a rebuttal if that's a plan. This could harm your chances because a case will be made that that was the last house that could be built and another could be the straw that breaks camels back etc.

They don't approach it with any emotion (nor should they to be fair). Not fully knowing your situation but it is the desire to stop one off house outside established areas.

Best of luck with it and hope you get a good outcome!

I take all your points on board but there are no other rental options in the area and very few houses are ever available for purchase.

It makes no sense for me to build in another settlement area, away from family and long school commutes to drop off and pick up kids. I would spend half my days on the road.

They can play the local need not met card all they want but the fact remains they discussed local need in my pre-plan and they agreed that I had a strong case for that and just needed to put forward the evidence, school letter etc.

If they mentioned a local need or linear development issue in the beginning, at least we could have walked away along with our house savings. As it stands we are now 8k out of pocket as we pursued a path due to a favourable and encouraging pre-plan, now for them to change their mind and dig their heels in.

This now severely impacts both our self build and buying potential in the future due to savings losses. I know many have been down this road and lost more, but it is still a difficult one to swallow.

clearview99 · 18-11-2019 6:36pm

Hi, I can anyone offer some advice on my situation?

I've recently been turned down (twice) by my LA for planning permission. The site is in my mother's home village and while we don't live there two of her sisters (my aunts) continue to. In addition to this linkage I have also several other cousins living in the area. The site is also on the boundary of planning zones and as a result I am merely metres out of the 'local need radius' that the LA are looking for. One of the above aunts lives with her husband having returned home from the UK ten years ago - their children and grandchildren continue to live there. The other aunt lives by herself, is not married and has no children. The CDP states that they will look favourably where an applicant is seeking permission in order to live near 'elderly parents or near elderly relatives who have no children' in order to provide 'security, care and support'. I have substantiated this with medical evidence which outlines the care needs of these relatives however the council is unwilling to acknowledge this as I cannot claim to be 'a full time carer' despite the fact that the CDP makes no reference to this. They are also saying that I am not local enough despite the family linkage and connections that I have demonstrated. At the end of the day my agent is satisfied that my need and the needs of my elderly relatives, as per the CDP, is sufficient to grant permission. We have seen where other applicants have had permission granted by the LA for very similar situations. What is the best way for me to fight this? Thanks

Reputable Rog · 18-11-2019 6:48pm

clearview99 wrote: »

Hi, I can anyone offer some advice on my situation?

I've recently been turned down (twice) by my LA for planning permission. The site is in my mother's home village and while we don't live there two of her sisters (my aunts) continue to. In addition to this linkage I have also several other cousins living in the area. The site is also on the boundary of planning zones and as a result I am merely metres out of the 'local need radius' that the LA are looking for. One of the above aunts lives with her husband having returned home from the UK ten years ago - their children and grandchildren continue to live there. The other aunt lives by herself, is not married and has no children. The CDP states that they will look favourably where an applicant is seeking permission in order to live near 'elderly parents or near elderly relatives who have no children' in order to provide 'security, care and support'. I have substantiated this with medical evidence which outlines the care needs of these relatives however the council is unwilling to acknowledge this as I cannot claim to be 'a full time carer' despite the fact that the CDP makes no reference to this. They are also saying that I am not local enough despite the family linkage and connections that I have demonstrated. At the end of the day my agent is satisfied that my need and the needs of my elderly relatives, as per the CDP, is sufficient to grant permission. We have seen where other applicants have had permission granted by the LA for very similar situations. What is the best way for me to fight this? Thanks

Appeal it to the board if you’re convinced the PA are wrong in their decision to refuse you planning permission.

realflash1982 · 02-12-2019 10:57am

There is a site for sale locally with full planning permission. Looking at the application online there were was a refusal on this originally before it was eventually granted based on the applicants 'Local Need'.

Is it possible for them to sell/transfer this site with planning permission to somebody else? Does the prospective purchaser just need to meet the same 'local need' or is it more complicated than that?

Reati · 02-12-2019 11:42am

realflash1982 wrote: »

There is a site for sale locally with full planning permission. Looking at the application online there were was a refusal on this originally before it was eventually granted based on the applicants 'Local Need'.

Is it possible for them to sell/transfer this site with planning permission to somebody else? Does the prospective purchaser just need to meet the same 'local need' or is it more complicated than that?

There is normally a condition against sale within 7 years without explicit written council permission to the sale. This is 7 years from it getting entered to the deeds iirc not from date built.

This is to stop people building for profit because they might meet local need.

edit: Sorry, I misread and thought the house was built. Eitherway, the PP was granted to the applicants where local needs apply and was a condition of it, the council would need to ok the sale IIRC.

ProfanityURL · 07-12-2019 3:38pm

My fiance and I are planning to build a house, but we do not want to live in either of respective home areas so we cannot apply for planning under local needs. We are looking at either Galway, Offaly or Kildare at the moment and are considering buying a site to apply for planning, so we're trying to understand what our chances will be like in achieving planning. I've read the development plans for these counties but I find they have just confused me even further.

Basically I was hoping to find answers to the following:

1. Is it likely to be granted permission to build our own home considering we are not from the area? It seems a lot of people on this thread have discussed being denied PP even though they are from the area.
2. Does it help if the house is located on the outskirts of a town or village rather than a "one off" roadside house in the countryside which the planners want to avoid?
3. If we buy a site with an existing dwelling like a small cottage or run down house and essentially "attach" the house we want to build by incorporating the existing dwelling into the design, does that make it easier to get planning permission?

sydthebeat · 07-12-2019 3:45pm

ProfanityURL wrote: »

My fiance and I are planning to build a house, but we do not want to live in either of respective home areas so we cannot apply for planning under local needs. We are looking at either Galway, Offaly or Kildare at the moment and are considering buying a site to apply for planning, so we're trying to understand what our chances will be like in achieving planning. I've read the development plans for these counties but I find they have just confused me even further.

Basically I was hoping to find answers to the following:

1. Is it likely to be granted permission to build our own home considering we are not from the area? It seems a lot of people on this thread have discussed being denied PP even though they are from the area.
2. Does it help if the house is located on the outskirts of a town or village rather than a "one off" roadside house in the countryside which the planners want to avoid?
3. If we buy a site with an existing dwelling like a small cottage or run down house and essentially "attach" the house we want to build by incorporating the existing dwelling into the design, does that make it easier to get planning permission?

Yes it is.

You need to find rural areas considered "structurally weak" in their development plan, and focus your site hunting there.

Make sure whatever sites you look at comply with proper standards.

realflash1982 · 12-12-2019 12:00pm

Can I ask, other than work, family, sport club involvement etc. What other reasons would one need to have to meet local need in an area?

sydthebeat · 12-12-2019 12:04pm

realflash1982 wrote: »

Can I ask, other than work, family, sport club involvement etc. What other reasons would one need to have to meet local need in an area?

returning emigrant, medical....

Donald Trump · 21-12-2019 2:14am

Reati wrote: »

Having been through it myself in the past, I'll play the part of the hardest planner (assuming this is a somewhat rurally area)

This isn't proof you need to live in the area. All that shows is you have a tie to the area but that is not a need. That's why they told you the things that wouldn't be acceptable as they only show a tie, not a need.

Technically, you already have a house (I know it's rented) too, so why do you need to build one. I've heard this one before (and it's completely unfair imo!!)

There might only a need if there is no suitable housing for sale/rent within a reasonable distance of the school. Think about transport to school and if without living there you'd have to move schools and uproot your kids.

Check what the development plan for the area is and if you meet it. All areas have a development plan.

I'd watch using this as a rebuttal if that's a plan. This could harm your chances because a case will be made that that was the last house that could be built and another could be the straw that breaks camels back etc.

They don't approach it with any emotion (nor should they to be fair). Not fully knowing your situation but it is the desire to stop one off house outside established areas.

Best of luck with it and hope you get a good outcome!

Sorry to hijack that answer but you appear to be knowledgeable.

Hypothetical situation. Suppose person A would like to build on their family land. The timeline for this is maybe 2-3 years.

A relative's old cottage is being sold a few miles away. It wouldn't suit person A long term as the site is very tight and the house is tiny. If person A already had their own permission, the might buy the cottage and renovate it to rent it out. It would only suit a single person or a couple - no kids.
If person A buys the cottage, I would assume that they are then saying goodbye to ever getting their planning for their own build (lets assume they would otherwise get it).

Would there be any way to prevent this? I mean legally and above board of course. Maybe something like buying the cottage jointly with a sibling/parent or even setting up a company to buy and own the property and rent it out.

Reputable Rog · 21-12-2019 10:08pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sorry to hijack that answer but you appear to be knowledgeable.

Hypothetical situation. Suppose person A would like to build on their family land. The timeline for this is maybe 2-3 years.

A relative's old cottage is being sold a few miles away. It wouldn't suit person A long term as the site is very tight and the house is tiny. If person A already had their own permission, the might buy the cottage and renovate it to rent it out. It would only suit a single person or a couple - no kids.
If person A buys the cottage, I would assume that they are then saying goodbye to ever getting their planning for their own build (lets assume they would otherwise get it).

Would there be any way to prevent this? I mean legally and above board of course. Maybe something like buying the cottage jointly with a sibling/parent or even setting up a company to buy and own the property and rent it out.

Person A could always shut the F€&@ up and never mention the cottage.
The Planning Authority are not the STASI.

Reati · 23-12-2019 12:01am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sorry to hijack that answer but you appear to be knowledgeable.

Hypothetical situation. Suppose person A would like to build on their family land. The timeline for this is maybe 2-3 years.

A relative's old cottage is being sold a few miles away. It wouldn't suit person A long term as the site is very tight and the house is tiny. If person A already had their own permission, the might buy the cottage and renovate it to rent it out. It would only suit a single person or a couple - no kids.
If person A buys the cottage, I would assume that they are then saying goodbye to ever getting their planning for their own build (lets assume they would otherwise get it).

Would there be any way to prevent this? I mean legally and above board of course. Maybe something like buying the cottage jointly with a sibling/parent or even setting up a company to buy and own the property and rent it out.

This is an interesting scenario. I've not encountered so all theory before but I can throw out thoughts. You could in do this but it's a timing thing.

Once you have planning granted they can't really revoke it unless you were fraudulent in the application or some cpo style stick goes down.

Like, if someone builds a house then buys a second as an investment that doesn't effect the permission of the first house. you need somewhere to live during the construction so I think after permission would be fine.

Now, where I'd be wary is if you ever need additional permission for the site / house you hope to built. I'd be of the mind that if the council thought you were trying to get one over on them they might make stuff a lot harder in future. Eps if they think you are doing it for speculation.

So, I wouldn't buy the house or any house before you had permission. They will ask you and you will get refused and you don't want to forget to mention it and they find out later. The councils don't take kindly as they are getting strict on rural housing of late.

Donald Trump · 23-12-2019 12:31am

Reati wrote: »

This is an interesting scenario. I've not encountered so all theory before but I can throw out thoughts. You could in do this but it's a timing thing.

Once you have planning granted they can't really revoke it unless you were fraudulent in the application or some cpo style stick goes down.

Like, if someone builds a house then buys a second as an investment that doesn't effect the permission of the first house. you need somewhere to live during the construction so I think after permission would be fine.

Now, where I'd be wary is if you ever need additional permission for the site / house you hope to built. I'd be of the mind that if the council thought you were trying to get one over on them they might make stuff a lot harder in future. Eps if they think you are doing it for speculation.

So, I wouldn't buy the house or any house before you had permission. They will ask you and you will get refused and you don't want to forget to mention it and they find out later. The councils don't take kindly as they are getting strict on rural housing of late.

Yeah, I wouldn't be talking about "forgetting" or lying on any planning application. Obviously if a person owned another house then they don't have a need any more. But what about owning a share in a house or a share in a company that owns a house. If they never lived in the other house.

Or alternatively, suppose you bought the house and rented it out on a long term lease. Then a year or two later you apply for permission. You can't live in the other house due to the lease (although maybe there might be provision to break that lease if you needed it yourself!).

To repeat, I'm not asking for dodgy things. Just asking whether it could potentially be done legally and above board. No deception or omissions asked.

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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