12 acres. Tree plan.

Chisler2 · 27-03-2019 2:59am

monseiur wrote: »

Chisler2 wrote: »

Inspired by this thread and the OP's progress and would welcome help from the experienced people here.

First off..........I explored the route of getting a grant and having a forestry outfit plant. I decided to do this myself for full control without encumberances.

I am a townie retired to a 15-acre smallholding in Mayo so forgive my ignorance I am learning fast (I have to!!!) Last February I planted out 140 baby trees (rowan, willow, hazel, hawthorn, whitethorn, blackthorn, five heritage Irish species apple trees and a couple of crab-apple) during "The Beast From the East" using pickaxe and shovel. Btw I am 70 years old 5'0" woman with osteoarthritis in hands and feet so it took some doing.

You should consider getting in one or two Woffers in for a few weeks to plant your trees. You don't have to pay them - just provide living accommodation plus all meals. Almost all are young foreigners wanting to travel the world on the cheap so will work for their lodgings etc. Loads of info. on Google.
With your arthritis, working outdoors in our damp wet climate is not recommended.

Please, please, please in the interest of future generations, do not under any circumstances plant any hawthorn, whitethorn or blackthorn.
M.

I have just picked up this post and thank you for the suggestion of Woofers which I have begun to explore and put an entry together on their website for traveller-workers this summer and autumn.

I am puzzled by the depth of feeling that emerges periodically on the planting of thorn-trees. Scratches from blackthorn are nasty............but are all the thorntrees "nuisance"? Would appreciate advice as I got hundreds of them.

Chisler2 · 27-03-2019 4:13am

victor8600 wrote: »

How about renting a small excavator to dig holes? Making 450 holes in rocky soil by hand is a challenge.

Thank you. In the end I got this (the Magna Graeca - YouTube video here https://youtu.be/v1W0cQ1lh0s and planted 670 trees in a week. Will post picture when they come on a bit.

JJayoo · 27-03-2019 9:34am

"I am puzzled by the depth of feeling that emerges periodically on the planting of thorn-trees. Scratches from blackthorn are nasty............but are all the thorntrees "nuisance"? Would appreciate advice as I got hundreds of them"

Black thorns will spread rapidly and instead of forming a 'tree' they will just create a big tangle. They can become a nice tree if pruned and if you stop them spreading.

Whitethorn can become a beautiful tree and doesn't spread.

Where abouts in the west are you planting?

Chisler2 · 27-03-2019 3:13pm

JJayoo wrote: »

"I am puzzled by the depth of feeling that emerges periodically on the planting of thorn-trees. Scratches from blackthorn are nasty............but are all the thorntrees "nuisance"? Would appreciate advice as I got hundreds of them"

Black thorns will spread rapidly and instead of forming a 'tree' they will just create a big tangle. They can become a nice tree if pruned and if you stop them spreading.

Whitethorn can become a beautiful tree and doesn't spread.

Where abouts in the west are you planting?

Mayo mountains.........so any tree or shrub that can survive the gales and salt air from the Atlantic, get roots into shale and give a bit of habitat for wildlife and pollinators is good. Hawthorn planted last year in a more sheltered "nursery plot" are coming into leaf now and look sturdy.

Muahahaha · 27-03-2019 4:43pm

Chisler2 wrote: »

monseiur wrote: »

I have just picked up this post and thank you for the suggestion of Woofers which I have begun to explore and put an entry together on their website for traveller-workers this summer and autumn.

There was a discussion with a farmer on Woofers on Ray Darcy RTE Radio 1 just a few minutes ago. It should be up on the RTE player in a while

80sDiesel · 31-05-2019 11:26pm

Update:

Trees are doing fantastic. About 1 in 20 didn't leaf either from rabbots/hares or just from drying roots. The Scots pine were the hardest and perhaps it was the soil or rabbits. The oak and Aspen are finally leafing. The strongest is the alder which seems a hardy plant.

The hay meadow is looking amazing and the trial hay rattle in a trial field isi flowering.

Have been using the scythe in the Meadows for some docks and hope to eradicate them fully on the autumn with the lazydogtool that I recently bought.

They say one should plant a tree in ones life time. But it's watching it grow is the real joy.

Chisler2 · 01-06-2019 6:03pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Chisler2 wrote: »

There was a discussion with a farmer on Woofers on Ray Darcy RTE Radio 1 just a few minutes ago. It should be up on the RTE player in a while

Sorry I missed that as have not visited this forum for awhile. I've heard that peoples' experiences of WOOFERS vary widely so am having second thoughts about this possibility as I cannot afford to lose a summer. It seems guest workers are more complicated than it looks!!

timfromtang · 02-06-2019 1:24pm

Chisler2 wrote: »

Mayo mountains.........so any tree or shrub that can survive the gales and salt air from the Atlantic, get roots into shale and give a bit of habitat for wildlife and pollinators is good. Hawthorn planted last year in a more sheltered "nursery plot" are coming into leaf now and look sturdy.

Someone once told me that Mayo is a contraction of the gaelic for "plain of the yew"

Plant some Yew's in the shelter of the others?
would you like to?
stock poisoning might be a worry, but can be managed by siting the trees with care.

tim

80sDiesel · 06-06-2019 2:21pm

Largest tree so far- Alder tree

Yellow (hay) rattle

Chisler2 · 10-06-2019 10:49pm

timfromtang wrote: »

Someone once told me that Mayo is a contraction of the gaelic for "plain of the yew"

Plant some Yew's in the shelter of the others?
would you like to?
stock poisoning might be a worry, but can be managed by siting the trees with care.

tim

Tim - yes its a great tree, grows well here and I have a number of mature yews in a garden in North Mayo. Many are too large to lift and transport/transplant (around 8' - 10' in diameter at the broadest point!!!). I plan to take up the smallest (tall skinny ones - half-a-dozen) to set them on the mountain when the young trees are in place.

I spend much time, energy and money repairing collapsed dry stone boundary-walls against the incursions of neighbours' stock. When "news of the yews" gets round the neighbourhood they may be more vigilant at stock-proofing their land, also.

80sDiesel · 30-06-2019 12:36pm

Update:

I am lucky with the weather in that a drought would have really set me back. Nice wet summer and now the heat is making growing good.

The alder is thriving. The oak has taken off with the warmer weather. The cherry is growing but I noticed spots on the leaves so will have to kept an eye on. Rowan all good, birch all good, aspen good, crab apple fine, the Scots pine that worked seem to be ok but they are a slow growing tree. I uprooted the Willow as I have self seeding trees all around me.

Will probably put the rabbit guards on late August . The birch in particular sends it sap down and that is a welcome sugar rush for rabbits.

My motion camera just picked up on young deer so will have to keep an eye on that.

blackbox · 03-07-2019 3:32pm

We have lots of deer here (rural Wicklow). They cause devastation if young trees are not protected.

JJayoo · 03-07-2019 4:26pm

All that grass is gonna be very tempting for deer especially when winter comes.

batyushki · 15-07-2019 4:21pm

I am starting a similar project, 11 acres in the southeast at about 300m. Mineral soil (about 10 inches) over shale. Gradual gentle slope. Lots of deer so looking to repair the existing deer fence otherwise I think we'd lose any tree we planted. Adjacent to a state forest which will eventually be clearfelled, so looking to put in a strong boundary of thicker native woodland and then more widely spaced trees to preserve some pasture underneath. My inspiration has been the traditional coppice woodland of our ancestors. Occasional thicker areas but with many sections of sunny understory and pasture.

You were brave to tackle it yourself, we have a forester coming and will be able to avail of native woodland and agroforestry grants if approved. Otherwise with the fencing on top, it becomes quite costly.

We have a separate place near the sea with mature alder and willow. I have come to really love alder which are a hardy quick growing tree well adapted to Ireland's climate. They are the ultimate pioneer and should be planted more often, especially in the beginning of a new wood or boundary.

i may regret it later but I leave a lot of volunteer ash to grow. They are bulletproof and prolific (at the moment!)

I am really looking forward to seeing our bare fields develop into a woodland/pasture mix over the next decade. Watching trees grow every year is very satisfying. And what better way to give back to the earth than to plant a few trees.

Water John · 15-07-2019 8:35pm

I do hope those of you who have been progressive in this area are fully rewarded in any future schemes. No doubt this area will get good longer term funding for carbon sequestration.

JJayoo · 15-07-2019 10:55pm

Water John wrote: »

I do hope those of you who have been progressive in this area are fully rewarded in any future schemes. No doubt this area will get good longer term funding for carbon sequestration.

You could imagine the Green Party could promote something like this to win over votes from rural Ireland, unfortunately bikes in Dublin seems to be all they care about.

Accidentally · 16-07-2019 5:08am

Water John wrote: »

I do hope those of you who have been progressive in this area are fully rewarded in any future schemes. No doubt this area will get good longer term funding for carbon sequestration.

I won't be planning my future on it.

JJayoo · 19-08-2019 12:11am

Hiya guys, so while doing abit of searching on the Google machine I came across this

https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/109219-plastic-tree-guardstubes-etc/

Essentially it is a UK forum and in this linked thread people are complaining about unwanted ree guards which are littering the area, they even have a picture of a truck load of dumped tree guards.

So I am just wondering would this be the same this side of the pond ie large amounts of old tree guards which are being dumped. These would still be perfect for anyone planting their own trees.

JJayoo · 31-08-2019 9:50pm

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/plan-to-plant-a-whopping-22m-trees-more-than-6000-croke-park-pitches-a-year-to-beat-greenhouse-gases-38453105.html

An attempt to transform the Irish landscape with nature's own carbon captors will see 22 million trees planted every year for the next 20 years.

The ambitious plan is the equivalent of planting more than 6,000 Croke Park pitches every year until 2040.

If successful, the area of land under trees could increase by 20pc to almost one-million hectares, although that would still leave Ireland at the bottom in Europe for forest cover, ahead only of barren Malta.

"Most of the planting will be done by the State, farmers and other large landowners by spurring renewed interest in existing grant schemes, but anyone with a quarter acre can apply and there are schemes to assist community groups"

Accidentally · 01-09-2019 6:25am

JJayoo wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/plan-to-plant-a-whopping-22m-trees-more-than-6000-croke-park-pitches-a-year-to-beat-greenhouse-gases-38453105.html

An attempt to transform the Irish landscape with nature's own carbon captors will see 22 million trees planted every year for the next 20 years.

The ambitious plan is the equivalent of planting more than 6,000 Croke Park pitches every year until 2040.

If successful, the area of land under trees could increase by 20pc to almost one-million hectares, although that would still leave Ireland at the bottom in Europe for forest cover, ahead only of barren Malta.

"Most of the planting will be done by the State, farmers and other large landowners by spurring renewed interest in existing grant schemes, but anyone with a quarter acre can apply and there are schemes to assist community groups"

Irish Times says 70% will be conifers, and I presume we are not talking Yew or Scot's Pine. It also fails to address the little problem of replacing all our Ash.

I'd love to be positive, but I don't see anything new here, or different to the last 20 years.

How are your trees coming on?

01-09-2019 9:12am

70% conifers...what is wrong with these people and why are they set on destroying our soil with these **** trees?

Oh yeah. Money.

Chisler2 · 01-09-2019 10:04am

JJayoo wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/plan-to-plant-a-whopping-22m-trees-more-than-6000-croke-park-pitches-a-year-to-beat-greenhouse-gases-38453105.html

An attempt to transform the Irish landscape with nature's own carbon captors will see 22 million trees planted every year for the next 20 years.

The ambitious plan is the equivalent of planting more than 6,000 Croke Park pitches every year until 2040.

If successful, the area of land under trees could increase by 20pc to almost one-million hectares, although that would still leave Ireland at the bottom in Europe for forest cover, ahead only of barren Malta.

"Most of the planting will be done by the State, farmers and other large landowners by spurring renewed interest in existing grant schemes, but anyone with a quarter acre can apply and there are schemes to assist community groups"

Before what is becoming the tree "industry"in Ireland expands its already-massive bureaucracy the ongoing destruction and depredation of hedgerows and boundary tree-belts should be tackled seriously. Preservation of old and existing resources must come first, with a campaign of raising awareness of the issues - both in terms of carbon-sequestration and biodiversity.

The buzz of chain-saws and the ripping sound of industrial-size hedge-trimmers has filled my summer for the past 5 years as farmers enlarge fields for increased stock of beef-cattle or just (as a neighbour put it) to "keep things tidy". The bird-population was already reduced this year fewer migrants reaching Ireland from Africa due to changing weather-patterns, high winds etc. Their broods were then smashed up by the self-same land-owners who will apply for the new forestation grants with all their restrictions and baggage...........a waste of time and resources if preservation and development of existing is not part of the plan, and re-wilding should figure prominently here.

JJayoo · 01-09-2019 10:24am

Accidentally wrote: »

How are your trees coming on?

All 300+ trees I planted last year survived and are doing well, and these were all big trees 10/12 years old, so I will continue with the brutal pruning.

Had a good few trees damaged by some ram lambs, finally identified the little sh1ts and they were sold the next day.

And finally all my apples have been taken/pecked to bits by a flock of Jays which have showed up over the last few weeks, I wouldn't mind too much if they would wait until the apples ripen.

Accidentally · 01-09-2019 2:50pm

JJayoo wrote: »

All 300+ trees I planted last year survived and are doing well, and these were all big trees 10/12 years old, so I will continue with the brutal pruning.

Had a good few trees damaged by some ram lambs, finally identified the little sh1ts and they were sold the next day.

And finally all my apples have been taken/pecked to bits by a flock of Jays which have showed up over the last few weeks, I wouldn't mind too much if they would wait until the apples ripen.

Sounds great. I had horses stripping bark in winter on any trees they could reach, and cattle looking for a back scratcher.

I've never issue with Jays and apples even though there's plenty of them about. It could be that they had other options with Hazel, Beech and now Oak.

80sDiesel · 01-09-2019 7:38pm

I had some stripping of trees so I bought some tree guards..those green tubes you see in forests. Protects the tree until it gets to a certain height ( deer) and then remove. Will then put on the plastic guards for a yr or two on lower part to protect against hares/deer etc

JJayoo · 06-10-2019 8:21pm

Took a video of the most established part of my planting.

Not very exciting just 10 mins of me wandering around.

Not sure how to embed

https://youtu.be/WqhkmNTG-d8

Melodeon · 06-10-2019 8:52pm

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqhkmNTG-d8

You take the bit of the YouTube link after the "watch?v=" bit (or after the "youtu.be/" bit in the case of the short link you posted above) and insert it with the YouTube button on the message editor box.
It'll look like this: [noparse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqhkmNTG-d8

[/noparse]

Fantastic work, by the way! It all looks great.

JJayoo · 06-10-2019 9:06pm

Thank you for embedding it

I had tried before but always fecked up the videos lol.

The bit in the video is the older section, past 3/4 years I have been planting other areas. I have another area about the same size planted and then a few smaller sections. Eventually I want to have everything joined so let's say a squirrel could get to every section without touching the ground.

JJayoo · 27-10-2019 8:33pm

Let's see those wooly sh1ts eat and scratch their way through this

80sDiesel · 30-10-2019 2:43pm

JJayoo wrote: »

Let's see those wooly sh1ts eat and scratch their way through this

I have had spectacular growth on the trees with those tubes I bought. I didn't have enough to use on all but you can clearly see the difference the tubes make. About 30% extra growth. Buy one or two just to see the difference.

80sDiesel · 30-10-2019 2:47pm

I have now expanded beyond the trees and have seeded about 2.5 acres in wildflower seeds. Was alot of work and expense preparing the ground and will be some work on the first summer but hopefully it will look amazing for summer '21.

Chisler2 · 22-11-2019 10:50pm

80sDiesel wrote: »

Have a smallholding of 12 acres. 350 metres high and half would be damp soggy ground. Plan is to plant alder on the boundaries and groups of 3/5 alders dotted around the fields.
On a small bit of land which I guessed was used to dump the rocks from the fields I plan on planting Rowan with some Birch.

On the better ground a few groups of Scots pines dotted around.

Probably a crab apple or two by the old homestead.

There is a laneway to the old homestead but not sure what to plant there.

Sounds like a plan? Anything else I should consider?

Laneway to homestead. One spruce down.

I've been following this with great interest. After dipping my toe in the water by self-planting native deciduous (mixture of willow, alder, Scots' Pine, hazel, holly, birch, hawthorn, rowan) in two winter plantings over the past 2 years I decided to "go big" and extend to 2.5 Hectares. During the digging the existing old drains running straight down the mountain trisecting my land got damaged and blocked by the 'mounding'.

"How wet is wet" when it comes to trees? The site is on a steep south-facing elevation (attempts to upload pic unsuccessful). The land is now a sticky mudbath with many little streamlets. Do I now get in a mini-digger to re-instate the old drains before planting?.............or do young trees on sloping land benefit. There is a small stand of Scots' Pine at around this elevation in a neighbours field but any other woodland is on the boggier, flatter valley-floor.

blue5000 · 23-11-2019 1:59pm

This autumn is wetter than normal. I'd wait and see before moving a digger in and doing more damage, trees will dry up wet ground when they get established.

The photo needs to be under 4kb to upload here. Perhaps upload it on some of the photo hosting sites and download a medium jpeg image. That usually solves the problem for me anyway. Other place to go wrong is in the attachment window you need to scroll all the way over to the right to click upload. Hope this helps.

JJayoo · 23-11-2019 7:11pm

80sDiesel wrote: »

I have now expanded beyond the trees and have seeded about 2.5 acres in wildflower seeds. Was alot of work and expense preparing the ground and will be some work on the first summer but hopefully it will look amazing for summer '21.

That is gonna look class

Chisler2 · 23-11-2019 9:08pm

blue5000 wrote: »

This autumn is wetter than normal. I'd wait and see before moving a digger in and doing more damage, trees will dry up wet ground when they get established.

The photo needs to be under 4kb to upload here. Perhaps upload it on some of the photo hosting sites and download a medium jpeg image. That usually solves the problem for me anyway. Other place to go wrong is in the attachment window you need to scroll all the way over to the right to click upload. Hope this helps.

Aha! thank you for those tips. Its an MPG image! I'll try again.

Chisler2 · 23-11-2019 9:19pm

Chisler2 wrote: »

Aha! thank you for those tips. Its an MPG image! I'll try again.

PictureIMG_0065.JPG

I clicked on your link
when it opened in a new window I copied the url at the top
clicked on edit at the bottom of your post
Then clicked on the yellow box, second last icon that looks like a mountain
deleted the http in the box that opened
pasted in the url of your pic
Then click on save

I love facebook!

80sDiesel · 27-12-2019 12:47am

Was doing some research on pruning
http://www.treeprotectionsupply.com/blog/tree-tube-faq-to-prune-or-not-to-prune/

https://youtu.be/lHnv0AstLK4

Because my trees are in those tubes I have to do some pruning to get the tree and it's leader growing faster out of the tube. So that's my weekend job for a few weeks.

80sDiesel · 29-12-2019 9:18pm

Slow going pruning the trees. Will be at it for a few weekends
On the plus side managed to sow a wet wildflower meadow. Sorrel, ragged Robin and Marsh marigold.

80sDiesel · 31-12-2019 6:25pm

After 400 odd pruning ( and a couple of finger tips) I understand more. Getting that leader established is important. The alder saplings were the ones that needed the most pruning as they are the most fast growing

JJayoo · 31-12-2019 7:29pm

I hope your taking plenty of pictures

will be cool to look back on a few years once it's established

80sDiesel · 14-01-2020 6:19pm

https://www.agricology.co.uk/resources/pontbren-project

Enjoyable read on uphill farmers and planting trees and hedges. Drainage part is quite interesting as in one year I also have noticed the areas planted are not as wet as the other areas.

Other good articles of you scroll down on benefits of shelter etc.

JustAThought · 14-01-2020 6:29pm

I love reading this thread.Tell me, is it for the love of trees and creating something that sounds amazing that you are doing it?

80sDiesel · 14-01-2020 10:57pm

JustAThought wrote: »

I love reading this thread.Tell me, is it for the love of trees and creating something that sounds amazing that you are doing it?

I call it my expensive 'painting'.

I have a picture in my head of this little farmstead in the mountains framed by native trees as if they were always there with subtle groves of Aspen,alder,birch a small oak Forest and a light sprinkle of scots pine. The canvas will be wildflower meadows.

The painting will come to life with the increased biodiversity which it should encourage.

JJayoo · 14-01-2020 11:02pm

Any sign of deer at your trees?

80sDiesel · 15-01-2020 12:29am

JJayoo wrote: »

Any sign of deer at your trees?

Motion camera only picked up 1 deer. Got a great look at it as it sniffed the camera. The tubes protect the trees so not bothered by them.

JustAThought · 15-01-2020 1:03am

80sDiesel wrote: »

Motion camera only picked up 1 deer. Got a great look at it as it sniffed the camera. The tubes protect the trees so not bothered by them.

any way to introduce red squirrels?

victor8600 · 15-01-2020 1:12am

JustAThought wrote: »

any way to introduce red squirrels?

https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/wildlife-and-wild-places/saving-species/red-squirrels/habitat-management-red-squirrels

It seems you need to wait 20+ years and then your forest better be surrounded by areas that prevent grey squirrels from coming.

JJayoo · 15-01-2020 4:56pm

I found a dead Red squirrel on the road approx half a km from my house. There has never been any sighting of them in the area. I contacted an organisation who document red squirrels and they told me they had no records of them being in this area and to put the squirrel in the freezer and someone would call to collect it....and the squirrel has been in the freezer for the last 3/4 years lol

There are definitely no grey squirrels but there are a lot of pine martens

80sDiesel · 28-01-2020 10:04pm

Just about finishing mulching the trees. Hopefully final 9 bags from Woodies. After doing alot of research I figured I needed to mulch them more than I originally did.

This spring/summer will be the first real time the tree tubes will hopefuly prove their their worth.

3 saplings which didn't survive were replaced by a sessile oak. Figured I would give them a go. The robar oak are performing fantastic

Planted an additional 6 Scots pines and replaced those that the rabbits/hares/deers destroyed before I got the mesh guards.

Motion camera now only picking up hares and foxes.

Have a dashcam so will hook it up to my landcruiser and drive around the land. That way each year I can see the progress in video. Will post a link.

80sDiesel · 27-03-2020 11:22pm

Have mulched half of the trees again. Don’t want to think how much I have spent on mulch. Probably should have bought in bulk. Trees are starting to bud.
Preparing another 6 acres for more wildflowers. First time since August that the ground is dry enough. Supplier has some left over so will be sowing them in the next week.

Current batch of wildflower (6 odd acres) are showing a lot of promise. The coldish winter I figure has stunted grass growth which should help them. Expecting cuckoo flowers to bloom soon.

12 acres. Tree plan.

Comments