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England v Ireland Autumn Nations Cup | 21.11.20 KO 15:00 | RTE 1 Read Post #5

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    #1082
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    i agree to a certain degree

    rugby is becoming a game that your chances of win are better without the ball.

    The south africa v wales semi final last year really was a disgraceful advertisement for the game. 73 kicks in an 80 min game. SA winning the game comfortably enough with 39% possession and 38% territory.

    as sam warburton said over the weekend, the reason teams kick the ball 60 meters up the field is because its the easiest way to get up the field with todays defensive systems. With the new jackal interpretations you can no bash up for 40 phases a la ireland v france 2018.. to much risk of a turnover for a split second slow clean out, or a slightly wrong angle on the clean. Result, penalty against you in a kickable position.

    Ill be interested to see how France v England goes in a couple of weeks, to see if england can win with less than 40% possession again.

    It might actually work as France tend to be better when they don’t have the ball much, intact the one 6N game that they dominated possession (vs Scotland away) they lost.


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    #1083
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Yes all the time, he was only on for about that long and it was all spent at SH.

    In which case, I've fixed your post:
    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    For us that Ringrose but sadly he has only really had one game in a Farrell team because in the game v Italy he spent all the time being a SH thanks to Murray’s Yellow he got injured.


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    #1084
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Yes all the time, he was only on for about that long and it was all spent at SH.

    Purely point of fact, Ringrose was replaced after 27 mins, so he played 9 for less than half of the time that he was on the pitch.


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    #1085
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    i agree to a certain degree

    rugby is becoming a game that your chances of win are better without the ball.

    The south africa v wales semi final last year really was a disgraceful advertisement for the game. 73 kicks in an 80 min game. SA winning the game comfortably enough with 39% possession and 38% territory.

    That was a depressing game. RSA just strangled the life out of it. Rugby isn’t going to grow its viewing audience with product like that.


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    #1086
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    That was a depressing game. RSA just strangled the life out of it. Rugby isn’t going to grow its viewing audience with product like that.

    If it wins trophies the fans don't care. Our best successes under Joe were some of the dullest games for the neutral.


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    #1087
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    clsmooth wrote: »
    I’m surprised you’d don’t realise what being stuck between a rock and hard place looks like. But then I guess that helps explain your strange argument. What percentage chance would you give both May and Keenan of winning the ball once it left Farrell’s foot?

    If Keenan is waiting until it leaves Farrell's foot to start moving he's already setting himself up for a beating in the air. He needs to anticipate the kick and be coming on to it running from behind the goal line. He did make the run but overshot it and was not high enough. If he comes from a metre further back he's in full flight and in front of May.

    Compare with Farrell's movement to claim that mark where he ran off the pitch. He's haring across to claim it even before Lowe shapes to kick.

    Or Kearney when he strolled around against SA and the ball just dropped into his arms. Granted, no opposition makes those catches a lot easier but positioning is the most important aspect of dominating the back field.

    It's severe to 'blame' Keenan for not having the vision and experience to be a quality international FB. He'll learn this stuff quickly enough.


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    #1088
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,185 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    molloyjh wrote: »
    GIVE NEW GUYS A CHANCE!!!!!

    LOOK AT THAT CHILDISH MISTAKE THE NEW GUY MADE!!!!!!!

    Who'd want to be a pro rugby player, eh?

    New guy gets a chance to make a mistake in a meaningless game against world class opposition and learn from it.

    Literally the only useful thing about this tournament.


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    #1089
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    pickarooney wrote:
    If Keenan is waiting until it leaves Farrell's foot to start moving he's already setting himself up for a beating in the air. He needs to anticipate the kick and be coming on to it running from behind the goal line. He did make the run but overshot it and was not high enough. If he comes from a metre further back he's in full flight and in front of May.


    Has it occured to you that if Keenan had moved to a different position before Farrell kicked, then Farrell might have kicked it somewhere else or done something different?


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    #1090
    Lee Roadie
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Lee Roadie


    Excuse my ignorance, but if a hooker is having a bad day at lineout time, why don't they at least consider the props as an option, is there anything to prevent a prop throwing in?


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    #1091
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Lee Roadie wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance, but if a hooker is having a bad day at lineout time, why don't they at least consider the props as an option, is there anything to prevent a prop throwing in?

    There is nothing preventing any player from being the thrower into the lineout. The only issue is have they had any practice at it?


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    #1092
    IAmTheReign
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭IAmTheReign


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    i agree to a certain degree

    rugby is becoming a game that your chances of win are better without the ball.

    The south africa v wales semi final last year really was a disgraceful advertisement for the game. 73 kicks in an 80 min game. SA winning the game comfortably enough with 39% possession and 38% territory.

    as sam warburton said over the weekend, the reason teams kick the ball 60 meters up the field is because its the easiest way to get up the field with todays defensive systems. With the new jackal interpretations you can no bash up for 40 phases a la ireland v france 2018.. to much risk of a turnover for a split second slow clean out, or a slightly wrong angle on the clean. Result, penalty against you in a kickable position.

    Ill be interested to see how France v England goes in a couple of weeks, to see if england can win with less than 40% possession again.

    Properly enforcing the rule that the jackaling player has to support their own bodyweight would help a lot. A player propping himself up on a ruck is not supporting his own weight and should be penalised for playing the ball off his feet. Marginal calls should favour the attacking team.


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    #1093
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Lee Roadie wrote:
    Excuse my ignorance, but if a hooker is having a bad day at lineout time, why don't they at least consider the props as an option, is there anything to prevent a prop throwing in?


    Wingers used to do it way back when.


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    #1094
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,369 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    There is nothing preventing any player from being the thrower into the lineout. The only issue is have they had any practice at it?

    Yeah, in terms of laws, it can be anyone.

    In terms of how that actually works - it takes a lot of skill and practice to be good. And the golden standard - consistent. Keith Wood said on the OTB podcast that throwing to the lineout in an international match adds a metre to your throw due to adrenaline, which I thought was just a killer detail - I found it fascinating that they'd quantified such stuff.
    But that does mean that, if your hooker is having an off day, giving it to another team member who lacks that experience and muscle memory - it's gonna be worse. Whatever's happening with your hooker, it won't be better. That's before you starting asking the whole team to start memorising lineout calls.


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    #1095
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    I remember once either Ireland or Leinster had their hooker in the bin and Sean O’Brien took the lineout. would be interesting if they had a secondary thrower ready for that scenario or if they just didn’t want to make the sub.


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    #1096
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If it wins trophies the fans don't care. Our best successes under Joe were some of the dullest games for the neutral.

    Sure, but you’re talking about existing fans there. Rugby needs to grow its global audience. Tackling and kicking the ball away won’t do it.


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    #1097
    Paul Weller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭Paul Weller


    First Up wrote: »
    Wingers used to do it way back when.

    Didn't know Jaco had re-regged :D


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