Homelessness

Yurt2 · 24-02-2021 11:31pm

corner of hells wrote: »

He's right , i work in low threshold homeless services , very few are homeless through no fault of their own.

Mental health, addiction, erratic behavior, violence in many instances. I'm sure it's all there.

But a Garda who has likely has interactions with people who have fallen that far to log in and proudly say he has no empathy and doesn't give a sh*t about these people. Well, it's charming and something I doubt he put on his recruitment form or will mention when he goes for promotion.

Potential-Monke · 24-02-2021 11:49pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Mental health, addiction, erratic behavior, violence in many instances. I'm sure it's all there.

But a Garda who has likely has interactions with people who have fallen that far to log in and proudly say he has no empathy and doesn't give a sh*t about these people. Well, it's charming and something I doubt he put on his recruitment form or will mention when he goes for promotion.

Ex-Garda. I left partly because of people like you who can't see beyond their own opinions. I never said I don't give a ****, I just don't have empathy. Big difference. And 99% of the empathy people throw around is only said for the likes and to make themselves feel more important. Push come to shove, these empathetic people would turn the other way before helping.

And no doubt all that is there, but it's also, imo, personal issues people need to learn how to deal with themselves, and not an excuse for the poor mouth, poor me shyte that gets peddled about some of these people. All my life I've been told that my actions have consequences, and I have to deal with those consequences. Throw out mental health, substance abuse and all the other stereotypical reasons and suddenly its someone elses problem? Nah.

I have the same issue with court cases, doesn't matter how much of a scumbag someone is, once they throw out the tried and tested mental health and substance abuse lies they get handier sentences or have the case thrown out.

Edit: I think I had more of this empathy before I became a Garda, seeing how the criminal side live, and live well, on the backs of others, and seeing someone who is 100% the instrument of their own downfall suddenly being excused because "teh drugs" and "teh metal healths" is mentioned... I lost the empathy because I saw how much people can use that to their own advantage. I have some, but it's reserved for people I know and like.

Yurt2 · 24-02-2021 11:59pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Ex-Garda. I left partly because of people like you who can't see beyond their own opinions. I never said I don't give a ****, I just don't have empathy. Big difference. And 99% of the empathy people throw around is only said for the likes and to make themselves feel more important. Push come to shove, these empathetic people would turn the other way before helping.

And no doubt all that is there, but it's also, imo, personal issues people need to learn how to deal with themselves, and not an excuse for the poor mouth, poor me shyte that gets peddled about some of these people. All my life I've been told that my actions have consequences, and I have to deal with those consequences. Throw out mental health, substance abuse and all the other stereotypical reasons and suddenly its someone elses problem? Nah.

I have the same issue with court cases, doesn't matter how much of a scumbag someone is, once they throw out the tried and tested mental health and substance abuse lies they get handier sentences or have the case thrown out.

Edit: I think I had more of this empathy before I became a Garda, seeing how the criminal side live, and live well, on the backs of others, and seeing someone who is 100% the instrument of their own downfall suddenly being excused because "teh drugs" and "teh metal healths" is mentioned... I lost the empathy because I saw how much people can use that to their own advantage. I have some, but it's reserved for people I know and like.

That's a relief.

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 12:02am

Just maybe, you've become blinded by your experience as a Garda. Not all homeless people are known to the law. Many are struggling the best they can in a very difficult spot. You've let that profession's experience cloud your opinion because that's all you can see when in reality homelessness happens in all kinds of situations. Some of them from domestic violence situations, for example.

Reserving your empathy for people you know and like isn't what empathy is about at all.

punisher5112 · 25-02-2021 12:02am

Homeless charities doing extremely well....
See the one on Amien at now has 4 very up to date vans.... 2015,17, 20 and 21

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 12:04am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Homeless charities doing extremely well....
See the one on Amien at now has 4 very up to date vans.... 2015,17, 20 and 21

How do you know any or all of them aren't donated?

Yurt2 · 25-02-2021 12:08am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Homeless charities doing extremely well....
See the one on Amien at now has 4 very up to date vans.... 2015,17, 20 and 21

Yes, we'd all prefer it if homelessness services drove clapped out vans. And if their workers had no shoes, all the better. Is anyone even measuring the protein levels in the gruel to make sure there's not too much in there?

:pac:

Potential-Monke · 25-02-2021 12:09am

Yurt! wrote: »

That's a relief.

You're telling me! Best decision I ever made. Life has improved since I left.

Stateofyou wrote: »

Just maybe, you've become blinded by your experience as a Garda. Not all homeless people are known to the law. Many are struggling the best they can in a very difficult spot. You've let that profession's experience cloud your opinion because that's all you can see when in reality homelessness happens in all kinds of situations. Some of them from domestic violence situations, for example.

Reserving your empathy for people you know and like isn't what empathy is about at all.

Possibly, but that's why I said it's based on my own personal experience. But I still see it, it's the same heads in the same places every day, yet they've disappeared come sleeping time, and I've seen them being collected by a fancy car a few times, so it's a money racket for some.

I did allude that it doesn't apply to all "homeless" people, but it does (ime) apply to what I consider the majority.

Re: empathy - the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

I've never been homeless, so I can't understand and share the feelings of it. I doubt most people who say they are empathetic can do either. I honestly believe when someone says they're empathetic to something, they're sympathetic. And not just in this topic, in general. I've done plenty of mandatory courses to be able to distinguish between the two, and I still stand by my statements.

punisher5112 · 25-02-2021 12:12am

Stateofyou wrote: »

How do you know any or all of them aren't donated?

Do you believe that

Church on Tuesday · 25-02-2021 12:15am

It's quite easy to end up homeless actually. Rents in this country for the most part are crazy and if you are or become unemployed for whatever reason or have a LL who is dodge (which would be quite a lot) or who just fancies to do away with your accommodation/lease, you could be in a spot of bother. Many LLs/potential housemates are overly fussy even with good references.

It's really not an option for everyone to live with their parents. Could be any amount of reasons for that. Perhaps that person has good reason to cut contact with family.

Staying with a friend is grand but trust me, no friend is going to want a friend staying with them indefinitely.

Sure, some people are the agents of their own downfall but to put every single homeless person, and there are many types of homelessness out there, in the same bracket is utterly obscene.

That's from someone who had to do the whole staying on couches/cheap BNBs for a brief time. Not a pleasant experience and through no fault of my own.

punisher5112 · 25-02-2021 12:17am

Huge vast amounts of money is pumped into homeless charity, NGOs etc... Way too many making money off of it.

Id much prefer they regulated it.

Does anyone honestly think buying a property between€750k and €950k is ok? For one person or a small family....

Potential-Monke · 25-02-2021 12:19am

As I said at the very beginning, there are exceptions to my beliefs. I don't label all of them, just a lot of them in my experience. I do understand what you're saying, but again I think cases like that are few and far between. Right now may not be the best time to find yourself in that situation, because there are no jobs out there at the moment to move on to, but before Covid and lock downs, there were always plenty of jobs but even some homeless people think they're above working certain jobs.

Again, this is all my own experience based opinion. I don't intend nor want anyone to agree with me, just giving my 2 cents. I'm against the grain on most social issues, again all based on personal experiences. This just happens to be one of them. My view could be clouded by my experience, but I don't have anything else to go on, and I'm not interested enough to go find out otherwise.

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 12:21am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Do you believe that

I don't believe or disbelieve. Only simply due to my own involvement with charities over the years, I know that sometimes large donations like this are made or sold for very cheap. It's a possibility is all I am saying.

Yurt2 · 25-02-2021 12:27am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Huge vast amounts of money is pumped into homeless charity, NGOs etc... Way too many making money off of it.

Id much prefer they regulated it.

Does anyone honestly think buying a property between€750k and €950k is ok? For one person or a small family....

This is why threads like this descend into stupidity. Someone has a ferret in their head thinking a 750k price tag on a family home is somehow to do with homelessness charities.

Posting on boards is a waste of time in the best of times. Even taking on sentiments like the above is like having a debate with a postbox.

Netflix is calling...

Potential-Monke · 25-02-2021 12:30am

You know you don't actually add anything to the conversation yourself, yeah?

Jinglejangle69 · 25-02-2021 12:34am

Homeless isn't as trendy nowadays as covid.

Remember the Maggie Cash and Erica Fleming newspaper stories? SF all over it. Not anymore.

Maybe when we're all vaccinated it will be huge news again.

That 10,000 figure was always the bullseye for people.

punisher5112 · 25-02-2021 12:37am

Yurt! wrote: »

This is why threads like this descend into stupidity. Someone has a ferret in their head thinking a 750k price tag on a family home is somehow to do with homelessness charities.

Posting on boards is a waste of time in the best of times. Even taking on sentiments like the above is like having a debate with a postbox.

Netflix is calling...

Netflix?

Genuinely it is going on....

Graces7 · 25-02-2021 12:58pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Just maybe, you've become blinded by your experience as a Garda. Not all homeless people are known to the law. Many are struggling the best they can in a very difficult spot. You've let that profession's experience cloud your opinion because that's all you can see when in reality homelessness happens in all kinds of situations. Some of them from domestic violence situations, for example.

Reserving your empathy for people you know and like isn't what empathy is about at all.

Does anyone, however badly thought of they are , really deserve to be without a roof over their head? Which is what some posts here seem to be saying. Without the most basic of human needs? That will only degrade and damage further. Let us hope we are not each and all condemned to get only what we really deserve to have!

punisher5112 · 25-02-2021 1:05pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Does anyone, however badly thought of they are , really deserve to be without a roof over their head? Which is what some posts here seem to be saying. Without the most basic of human needs? That will only degrade and damage further. Let us hope we are not each and all condemned to get only what we really deserve to have!

Nobody hasn't a roof over their head only by choice.
Homeless now is a very very broad term these days. The forever home is what is been sought here.
No co living arrangements or hotels etc are in no way ideal but they aren't been left outside on s Street corner, B&Bs too of course.

Many reasons why but a lot comes down to mental health, this in itself needs sorting as it's very complex but people would be up.in arms if people were picked up of the street against their will, this is exactly what needs doing to help these but we can't have it that way as it will be against human rights etc.

Drink and or drugs.

25-02-2021 1:13pm

As always, in this discussion people are rushing to use "homelessness" to cover four or five hugely different things

Some out of carelessness, some because they dont want certain things acknowledged or discussed at all.

Very very few rough sleepers in Ireland and of those the number that aren't there at the end of a long enough line of their own decisions is tiny.

Does this mean "leave em there?"- no. It does mean that when you are discussing rough sleepers you should say so and acknowledge that the issue is addiction and/or mental health in the vast majority of cases and not link it to property issues

Organisations, movements, charities and tweeters/posters that use pictures of rough sleepers but go on to link to "10000 homeless" are worse than dishonest, they are waving around serious misery and tragedy for their own cynical ends and anyone engaged in such behaviour certainly would seem to have a vested interest not addressing the very different issues separately

Stateofyou · 25-02-2021 1:17pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Does anyone, however badly thought of they are , really deserve to be without a roof over their head? Which is what some posts here seem to be saying. Without the most basic of human needs? That will only degrade and damage further. Let us hope we are not each and all condemned to get only what we really deserve to have!

Short answer - no.

Many will judge those who are down on their luck, or perhaps struggling to deal with trauma and all the knock on effects of that. When really, what separates them in many instances is perhaps decent parents or family with means who can provide for them or pick them back up when they're down on their luck. Loving family that gave them the best start in life-and it's easier to go from there. Many don't or never had that.

I know many who's parents gave them a great start in life, allowed them (and even partners) to live with them while saving for a home or building house. I know many over the years who returned to their parents after a job loss, divorce, or any transition/trauma going on.

And then I know those w/out family means who managed to stay afloat only by the grace of god, friends, luck, and some help from charity/social welfare. It's a tough world out there. Keeping our humanity and empathy for all is so important. I often think of those living rough, and imagine them as a baby or child and wonder what went wrong. There's most likely tragedy and trauma behind their story. We should all be kind.

Graces7 · 25-02-2021 2:30pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Short answer - no.

Many will judge those who are down on their luck, or perhaps struggling to deal with trauma and all the knock on effects of that. When really, what separates them in many instances is perhaps decent parents or family with means who can provide for them or pick them back up when they're down on their luck. Loving family that gave them the best start in life-and it's easier to go from there. Many don't or never had that.

I know many who's parents gave them a great start in life, allowed them (and even partners) to live with them while saving for a home or building house. I know many over the years who returned to their parents after a job loss, divorce, or any transition/trauma going on.

And then I know those w/out family means who managed to stay afloat only by the grace of god, friends, luck, and some help from charity/social welfare. It's a tough world out there. Keeping our humanity and empathy for all is so important. I often think of those living rough, and imagine them as a baby or child and wonder what went wrong. There's most likely tragedy and trauma behind their story. We should all be kind.

It is all of these things.

But also few here really know the state of the rental market for those of us - and I mean US - who are seeking low cost rentals.
Folk here in their …. well yes, self righteous judging have any idea what life can be like.

And yes, I have been very very close to being homeless through such problems. No fault attached. None. I am old and very respectable with a good record of rent paying etc. No family . I don't drink or use drugs. Just that there was no alternative accommodation to be had. Sleeping in my old car became a strong probability.

Rentals end for many reasons. Mostly the landlord, wanting to stop renting. Or the accommodation proving ,as happened to me. Had I reported to RTB it would have been closed down . I t is very scary and very real .

Graces7 · 25-02-2021 2:34pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Nobody hasn't a roof over their head only by choice.[/B

Homeless now is a very very broad term these days. The forever home is what is been sought here.
No co living arrangements or hotels etc are in no way ideal but they aren't been left outside on s Street corner, B&Bs too of course.

Many reasons why but a lot comes down to mental health, this in itself needs sorting as it's very complex but people would be up.in arms if people were picked up of the street against their will, this is exactly what needs doing to help these but we can't have it that way as it will be against human rights etc.

Drink and or drugs.

Bolded.

corner of hells · 25-02-2021 2:37pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It is all of these things.

But also few here really know the state of the rental market for those of us - and I mean US - who are seeking low cost rentals.
Folk here in their …. well yes, self righteous judging have any idea what life can be like.

And yes, I have been very very close to being homeless through such problems. No fault attached. None. I am old and very respectable with a good record of rent paying etc. No family . I don't drink or use drugs. Just that there was no alternative accommodation to be had. Sleeping in my old car became a strong probability.

Rentals end for many reasons. Mostly the landlord, wanting to stop renting. Or the accommodation proving ,as happened to me. Had I reported to RTB it would have been closed down . I t is very scary and very real .

Do you not meet senior citizens/ social housing criteria in your local authority?

Graces7 · 25-02-2021 2:59pm

corner of hells wrote: »

Do you not meet senior citizens/ social housing criteria in your local authority?

There are waiting lists for most of these. The council had nowhere.

I found somewhere finally, in the back of nowhere and very basic
Works for me.

My point is that accommodation is very hard to come by. Very hard. My excellent landlord before the disaster was having to sell. These things happen. My point also that people of any age and situation can and do end up homeless through no fault of theirs and from then on it cab be a downward spiral. No references etc

corner of hells · 25-02-2021 3:08pm

Graces7 wrote: »

There are waiting lists for most of these. The council had nowhere.

I found somewhere finally, in the back of nowhere and very basic
Works for me.

My point is that accommodation is very hard to come by. Very hard. My excellent landlord before the disaster was having to sell. These things happen. My point also that people of any age and situation can and do end up homeless through no fault of theirs and from then on it cab be a downward spiral. No references etc

I understand your point , but you should be assessed in your local authority regardless, theres a variety of types of housing available for senior citizens once you meet thier criteria.

Graces , i work in homeless services and am very well aware of the challenges of those accessing HAP , private and social housing.

More and more housing associations are providing accommodation via local authorities and the lists talked can vary according to what your assesed as needing.

I understand you being content but ive seen individuals in thier seventies present as homeless when private rented fell apart.

Samsonsmasher · 25-02-2021 3:12pm

We have mass unemployment mass poverty and mass homelessness on our hands if the country doesn't open up soon and I mean soon.

25-02-2021 3:30pm

Source?

Graces7 · 25-02-2021 3:45pm

corner of hells wrote: »

I understand your point , but you should be assessed in your local authority regardless, theres a variety of types of housing available for senior citizens once you meet thier criteria.

Graces , i work in homeless services and am very well aware of the challenges of those accessing HAP , private and social housing.

More and more housing associations are providing accommodation via local authorities and the lists talked can vary according to what your assesed as needing.

I understand you being content but ive seen individuals in thier seventies present as homeless when private rented fell apart.

Thank you for the work you do. You are a living saint!

I am still more than capable of living independently and will do so as long as I can. I am safe here and love it! And am very, very resourceful...

But others are not resourceful. And it is these who fall through the net; and who to blame them then for falling further? I met some years ago who were literally newly homeless and the effect on them was shocking. Bewilderment. Living in B and B provided by the local authority. We all need a home not just a roof.

Lollipops23 · 25-02-2021 4:31pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Homeless isn't as trendy nowadays as covid.

Remember the Maggie Cash and Erica Fleming newspaper stories? SF all over it. Not anymore.

Speaking of, I believe Maggie's fella is back inside....

Homelessness

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