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FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

  • 11-10-2020 8:06pm
    #1
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,534 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Following on from this thread

    Threadbans carry over

    Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed


«134567…202

Comments

  • #2
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    truthvader wrote:
    Yep they set up here to make a profit, they supply cartloads of jobs and in return get fudgy tax deals.

    Plenty to criticise perhaps (though the thousands employed by multinationals and their families wont be joining you)

    The alternative is to impose higher taxes on them, they are then gone somewhere else along with their jobs.

    Well, that little corporate nirvana seems to be coming to an end if the EU get their way.


  • #3
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well, that little corporate nirvana seems to be coming to an end if the EU get their way.

    Could well be true, Little reason to celebrate though


  • #4
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Could well be true, Little reason to celebrate though

    We have the lowest corporation tax rate in the EU. They can’t go anywhere that they’ll pay less


  • #5
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We start yet another week with dithering and confused messaging to the fore.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/martin-pours-cold-water-on-circuit-breaker-lockdown-that-varadkar-says-may-be-needed-in-future-39610853.html


  • #6
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    We have the lowest corporation tax rate in the EU. They can’t go anywhere that they’ll pay less


    We don't have the lowest corporation tax in the EU. SF are proposing increasing the tax paid by multinationals - in 2019 these firms were responsible for 27% of all employment, 45% of all Income Tax receipts, and paid 79% of all Corporation Tax.


    SF are proposing to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Yet more nonsensical populism.


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  • #7
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Regarding multinationals, there's roughly quarter of a million employed by them in Ireland and countless 10s of 1000's of small supplier jobs tied in with them
    So No giving them an excuse to go back to America or Europe by fecking with their taxes would be very bad for jobs here and very bad for taxes here as all of those 300000 or so pay paye and prsi
    Better they doing that than be drawing the dole
    So no I'm with the majority on this one and don't approve of jeopardising if you include families, the lives of over a million people

    On the Escrow apple money,the EU commission will lose that appeal
    Experts know this

    https://home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2020/07/eu-court-ruling-apple-tax.html

    https://www.ft.com/content/1c38fdc1-c4b3-4835-919d-df51698f18c4

    I think apples billions belonging to Ireland is fake news fodder anyway because even if the EU won the case or in the unlikely event they win the appeal (they're going on a tight point of law appeal),loads of other countries get the money
    They're going on or trying to go on a loophole of law because the court so comprehensively threw out their case

    Make no mistake, the people driving the case are not doing so to benefit Ireland, they're hoping to get their share of the taxes/funds in escrow
    A fundamental change in Irelands treatment of multinationals too in other words
    I think any party promoting that is promoting to the big disadvantage of our country
    I don't agree with that


  • #8
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    We don't have the lowest corporation tax in the EU. SF are proposing increasing the tax paid by multinationals - in 2019 these firms were responsible for 27% of all employment, 45% of all Income Tax receipts, and paid 79% of all Corporation Tax.


    SF are proposing to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Yet more nonsensical populism.

    These corporations know the goose is cooked on cooking the books. They need the marketplace and they can't keep ****ting in it from a height.
    That they'll move is a scaremongering tactic to allow them keep the avoidance game going.


  • #9
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    These corporations know the goose is cooked on cooking the books. They need the marketplace and they can't keep ****ting in it from a height.
    That they'll move is a scaremongering tactic to allow them keep the avoidance game going.

    They wouldn't give 2 hoots about the plant they leave behind or the job's
    250000 jobs is an awful lot of personal income tax versus the cost of the dole for them wouldn't be long about ruining our economy
    I just don't get how anyone bar the anarchists in pbp would be pushing disincentivising such a cushy number for our country
    You wouldn't lose all of it obviously but you'd lose a lot and certainly wouldn't attract in any more
    They'd be in brexit Britain after a trade deal is done


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobotty wrote: »
    They wouldn't give 2 hoots about the plant they leave behind or the job's
    250000 jobs is an awful lot of personal income tax versus the cost of the dole for them wouldn't be long about ruining our economy
    I just don't get how anyone bar the anarchists in pbp would be pushing disincentivising such a cushy number for our country
    You wouldn't lose all of it obviously but you'd lose a lot and certainly wouldn't attract in any more
    They'd be in brexit Britain after a trade deal is done

    And that, dear friends, explains it in a nutshell.

    Do you want thousands of people working, earning good salaries, paying millions into the government coffers, living the good life, mortgages, etc., or do you want the same thousands of people dependent on state handouts in the form of Dole?

    Simples.


  • #11
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    They wouldn't give 2 hoots about the plant they leave behind or the job's
    250000 jobs is an awful lot of personal income tax versus the cost of the dole for them wouldn't be long about ruining our economy
    I just don't get how anyone bar the anarchists in pbp would be pushing disincentivising such a cushy number for our country
    You wouldn't lose all of it obviously but you'd lose a lot and certainly wouldn't attract in any more
    They'd be in brexit Britain after a trade deal is done

    Far from anarchists across the EU that want them to pay their way. Nobody is asking them to destitute themselves. 24 billion out of Apples profits in escrow for years now, it hasn't hurt them or their cashflow or ability to trade one bit. Beggars belief what they are ferreting away.
    you can't ask joe public to pay through the nose if you allow this...simple.


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  • #12
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    These corporations know the goose is cooked on cooking the books. They need the marketplace and they can't keep ****ting in it from a height.
    That they'll move is a scaremongering tactic to allow them keep the avoidance game going.

    Don't know if that's from the Francie Brady school of economics or the SF one, probably both, but that in a nutshell is why this school of thought is so dangerous.
    I hope its a solo run, like you accuse Leo of so often.


  • #13
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    Don't know if that's from the Francie Brady school of economics or the SF one, probably both, but that in a nutshell is why this school of thought is so dangerous.
    I hope its a solo run, like you accuse Leo of so often.

    The future for corporations is paying their fair share (that is all that is asked) or their trading relationship/regime will change. That seems to be the EU agenda. Nothing to do with SF that I am aware of.
    Scaremongering about moving isn't going to deter the EU it seems to me.


  • #14
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well, that little corporate nirvana seems to be coming to an end if the EU get their way.

    Exactly! Watch the dumb asses and Leo himself backtrack when the EU themselves levy more taxes on the multinationals.


  • #15
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    smurgen wrote: »
    Exactly! Watch the dumb asses and Leo himself backtrack when the EU themselves levy more taxes on the multinationals.

    Why do men (always men) who spend so much of the day posting about politics know so very, very little about how it actually works?


    :eek:


  • #16
    christy c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭christy c


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Why do men (always men) who spend so much of the day posting about politics know so very, very little about how it actually works?


    :eek:

    Well in fairness, Mary Lou Mcdonald is female and the leader of the opposition and seems to know even less.


  • #17
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    I just can't understand the obsession with Leo from 4 or 5 posters here everyday.

    It's just leo leo leo.

    Go into other threads.

    Leo leo leo.

    He isn't the Taoiseach anymore.

    Leo leo Leo.


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I just can't understand the obsession with Leo from 4 or 5 posters here everyday.

    It's just leo leo leo.

    Go into other threads.

    Leo leo leo.

    He isn't the Taoiseach anymore.

    Leo leo Leo.

    Reminds me of the “Ruby, Ruby, Ruby” chants in Cheltenham. Good times!


  • #19
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Why do men (always men) who spend so much of the day posting about politics know so very, very little about how it actually works?


    :eek:

    Tell us what we don't know about? You seem to have no area of expertise at all? You talk about the magic money tree etc alot but I thing FG are worse than anyone in this respect. Criminally bad tendering of processes it seem. It's almost like their friends are set to benefit johnny flash underpants.


  • #20
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Could well be true, Little reason to celebrate though

    Can't see the American corporates seeing any point in staying with working from home in place until at least this time next year, what point in leasing massive offices in Ireland when they can oversee the whole operation from the US. IDA isn't going to give them any grants when there is no grand openings of large buildings,


  • #21
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I just can't understand the obsession with Leo from 4 or 5 posters here everyday.

    It's just leo leo leo.

    Go into other threads.

    Leo leo leo.

    He isn't the Taoiseach anymore.

    Leo leo Leo.

    It's almost like he's a moron and bad for the country. Our very own trump. Just more botoxed.


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  • #22
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I just can't understand the obsession with Leo from 4 or 5 posters here everyday.

    It's just leo leo leo.

    Go into other threads.

    Leo leo leo.

    He isn't the Taoiseach anymore.

    Leo leo Leo.

    Leo's probably paying a Russian troll farm to keep himself in the headlines,


  • #23
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    smurgen wrote: »
    Tell us what we don't know about? You seem to have no area of expertise at all? You talk about the magic money tree etc alot but I thing FG are worse than anyone in this respect. Criminally bad tendering of processes it seem. It's almost like their friends are set to benefit johnny flash underpants.


    Criminally bad tendering of processes? What does that even mean? Are you suggesting that State tenders were awarded under suspicious circumstances? You'll have to explain how that could happen under the triple lock of Government, the Civil Service, and the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, and for what tenders it happened.


  • #24
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Far from anarchists across the EU that want them to pay their way. Nobody is asking them to destitute themselves. 24 billion out of Apples profits in escrow for years now, it hasn't hurt them or their cashflow or ability to trade one bit. Beggars belief what they are ferreting away.
    you can't ask joe public to pay through the nose if you allow this...simple.

    Francie,I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you
    Stopping big companies ferreting away money won't butter the toast of nearly a million people in families that depend on them here
    Its pie in the sky


  • #25
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    We don't have the lowest corporation tax in the EU. SF are proposing increasing the tax paid by multinationals - in 2019 these firms were responsible for 27% of all employment, 45% of all Income Tax receipts, and paid 79% of all Corporation Tax.


    SF are proposing to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Yet more nonsensical populism.

    Yeah but they will "get" the rich which is enough to appeal to their fanbase


  • #26
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Francie,I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you
    Stopping big companies ferreting away money won't butter the toast of nearly a million people in families that depend on them here
    Its pie in the sky

    If it is ok with you, I will side with the EU and not you Nobotty. I think they should pay their fair share if they wish to operate and trade here. I think, actually they know this themselves.


  • #27
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it is ok with you, I will side with the EU and not you Nobotty. I think they should pay their fair share if they wish to operate and trade here. I think, actually they know this themselves.


    Would you be in favour of tax harmonisation across the EU?


  • #28
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    I just can't understand the obsession with Leo from 4 or 5 posters here everyday.

    It's just leo leo leo.

    Go into other threads.

    Leo leo leo.

    He isn't the Taoiseach anymore.

    Leo leo Leo.

    Has anyone told him he isn't the Taoiseach anymore? He is on the airwaves more than the Taoiseach trying to score political points.


  • #29
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it is ok with you, I will side with the EU and not you Nobotty. I think they should pay their fair share if they wish to operate and trade here. I think, actually they know this themselves.
    Have you a link to apple not obeying the laws here with regards tax?


  • #30
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Has anyone told him he isn't the Taoiseach anymore? He is on the airwaves more than the Taoiseach trying to score political points.

    https://youtu.be/399syDv0bBM


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  • #31
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Has anyone told him he isn't the Taoiseach anymore? He is on the airwaves more than the Taoiseach trying to score political points.

    Is he?

    Have you a link to evidence he's trying to score political points?

    Or is this another theory of yours?

    Fantasy actually.


  • #32
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    These corporations know the goose is cooked on cooking the books. They need the marketplace and they can't keep ****ting in it from a height.
    That they'll move is a scaremongering tactic to allow them keep the avoidance game going.

    Jesus. What are you going to do? Send the army into Apple as "peacekeepers". As posted above the multinationals contribute heaps the the Irish economy. And yes they make out like bandits . And yes they get all sorts of dodgy tax deals. It may appeal to some kind of dizzy National Socialist idealism to Tax them but they could be gone to India in the morning.

    What then? We cant all be community activists

    Truth is even without a "Tax the rich" government India is slready upskilled and cheaper. Not the time for stupidity with no backup plan


  • #33
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Is he?

    Have you a link to evidence he's trying to score political points?

    Or is this another theory of yours?

    Fantasy actually.

    Yes JJ that is an opinion and shared by quite a few.

    We are allowed an opinion here are we not?

    Serious hisssy fits tonight because Leo, who has been putting himself front and centre is attracting comment. What was he expecting - silent supplication and praise?


  • #34
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it is ok with you, I will side with the EU and not you Nobotty. I think they should pay their fair share if they wish to operate and trade here. I think, actually they know this themselves.

    You may do whatever you wish :)


  • #35
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Nobotty wrote: »
    You may do whatever you wish :)


    He still didn't answer if he was in favour of EU tax harmonisation.


  • #36
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    He still didn't answer if he was in favour of EU tax harmonisation.

    I am a member of the EU, I have to be in favour of harmonization therefore. The good with the bad, that's the deal.


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  • #37
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I am a member of the EU, I have to be in favour of harmonization therefore. The good with the bad, that's the deal.

    I think you're just fluffing out waffle.
    We are a member state, but an independent economic unit with a right to govern ourselves economically and we need that to differ us from the mainland Europe
    Do you for one minute think we could survive logistically because we are an island without something different to offer?


  • #38
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I am a member of the EU, I have to be in favour of harmonization therefore. The good with the bad, that's the deal.


    Wouldn't be SF policy at all, but I realise you were a first time voter for them in the last GE so probably don't agree with all their policies.

    It's possible to be a citizen of the EU and disagree with some of their policies. It would be very difficult not to do so.


  • #39
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Wouldn't be SF policy at all, but I realise you were a first time voter for them in the last GE so probably don't agree with all their policies.

    It's possible to be a citizen of the EU and disagree with some of their policies. It would be very difficult not to do so.

    Absolutely agree, and I do. But if tax harmonisation happens we'll have to accept it.


  • #40
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes JJ that is an opinion and shared by quite a few.

    We are allowed an opinion here are we not?

    Serious hisssy fits tonight because Leo, who has been putting himself front and centre is attracting comment. What was he expecting - silent supplication and praise?

    So it's your unbiased opinion?

    Which has no credible evidence to back it up.

    Just as I thought.


  • #41
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    So it's your unbiased opinion?

    Which has no credible evidence to back it up.

    Just as I thought.

    His 10% drop in approval might show he's not doing something right anyway


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  • #42
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,564 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    His 10% drop in approval might show he's not doing something right anyway

    Still waiting for your evidence of leo lying.


    Yawn.

    All night we can do this and you won't produce it.


  • #43
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    His 10% drop in approval might show he's not doing something right anyway

    Might mean the reverse. Popularity is not connected to what is right or wise. Charlie Haughy was a hugely popular Taoiseah who always stood his round. Turns out he was a thieving flake though


  • #44
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,731 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And that, dear friends, explains it in a nutshell.

    Do you want thousands of people working, earning good salaries, paying millions into the government coffers, living the good life, mortgages, etc., or do you want the same thousands of people dependent on state handouts in the form of Dole?

    Simples.

    Answer of course from that coterie is yes,Maryanne.

    What they want is jobsworths and lifers in State or local authority employment, highly unionized , manufacturing nothing, exporting nothing, producing nothing except demands for more money .

    And goaded on by shadowy figures in the background ensuring that unrest is constant and anyone with any semblance of hard work and advancement gets the fuuuherk out of the country.

    Nah mate......sorry.


  • #45
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    So it's your unbiased opinion?

    Which has no credible evidence to back it up.

    Just as I thought.

    Have you missed Leo putting himself front and centre on Claire Byrne and this weekend's paper's?

    It would be unhinged to pretend he hasnt put himself front and centre never mind unbiased.


  • #46
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,906 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Brendan Bendar wrote:
    What they want is jobsworths and lifers in State or local authority employment, highly unionized , manufacturing nothing, exporting nothing, producing nothing except demands for more money .

    The economy needs more money right now, as the velocity of money is dying a death, hence the economy is dying a death!


  • #47
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Answer of course from that coterie is yes,Maryanne.

    What they want is jobsworths and lifers in State or local authority employment, highly unionized , manufacturing nothing, exporting nothing, producing nothing except demands for more money .

    And goaded on by shadowy figures in the background ensuring that unrest is constant and anyone with any semblance of hard work and advancement gets the fuuuherk out of the country.

    Nah mate......sorry.

    What about 'everyone paying and getting their fair share Brendi?'

    You guys will never go for that and we know why.


  • #48
    christy c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭christy c


    Typical SF nonsense, when the stupidity and naivety of their plans are pointed out, start spoofing about fairness. First three pages or so of this thread sums up the craziness of it all.


  • #49
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What about 'everyone paying and getting their fair share Brendi?'

    You guys will never go for that and we know why.

    Like Violet Ann?


  • #50
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,972 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Like Violet Ann?

    We can play that game all day if you wish to waste time Truth. What about over paid bankers or TD's?


  • #51
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Like Violet Ann?

    And good republicans like Thomas Murphy etc, the smugglers and diesel washers.


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