Brexit: Alternatives to Amazon.co.uk

Poncke · 08-12-2020 10:21pm

From Amazon

Hello,

As you have placed an order on Amazon.co.uk and selected an EU delivery address in the past, we wanted to let you know that from 1 January 2021, when the Brexit transition period ends, you’ll see some changes when you shop on Amazon.co.uk and select an EU delivery address. These changes could include:

- VAT (or the regional equivalent, if applicable, https://www.amazon.co.uk/vatrates) being due in the country of delivery, or your package may be subject to customs duties, taxes and fees (“Import Fees”)
- the collection of VAT, or an estimation of Import Fees (“Import Fee Deposit” https://www.amazon.co.uk/ifd), which may result in a price change at checkout.

We will continue to accept eligible returns. If the reason for return is the result of an error (e.g. if the item is defective / damaged / incorrect), any costs incurred for the return will be paid by Amazon. Otherwise, any costs incurred for the return (including transport costs, as well as any associated import fees or customs where applicable) will be payable by the person returning the goods https://www.amazon.co.uk/returnshelp.

We hope this helps and we see you again soon.

Regards,

Customer Service Department
Amazon.co.uk

Ekerot · 08-12-2020 10:23pm

We need an Amazon.ie pronto now

Sheep Shagger · 08-12-2020 10:23pm

Have seen that email for about tbe 50th time on god knows how many different threads on boards today..

Poncke · 08-12-2020 10:24pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Have seen that email for about tbe 50th time on god knows how many different threads on boards today..

Good for you, it wasn't posted on this thread, so there

Captainsatnav · 08-12-2020 10:25pm

Hyperbollix wrote: »

Oftentimes the delivery charge to Ireland from UK sellers on Ebay and Amazon UK can be a bit excessive so I use Parcelmotel to get the item shipped to Antrim, then DPD bring it down to a locker locally.

I presume a workaround like this will also suffer in the event of a no deal?

Dpd parcel wizard is shutting down this Friday

el Fenomeno · 08-12-2020 10:28pm

Will Prime still include free delivery (even if we have to add VAT or Import Duty)?

Poncke · 09-12-2020 8:52am

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Will Prime still include free delivery (even if we have to add VAT or Import Duty)?

I will wait and see what happens 1 January and if the prices go up etc for whatever reason, I am going to ask a refund for my UK Prime and get a DE, FR, IT or ES Prime account, depending on where I get the most bang for my buck.

It depends on shipping to IE, because for example, with a DE Prime, shipping to NL is mostly free, just like UK Prime shipping to IE. But ES, DE, IT, FR shipping to IE probably is going to cost something.

rodia77 · 09-12-2020 2:14pm

Poncke wrote: »

It depends on shipping to IE, because for example, with a DE Prime, shipping to NL is mostly free, just like UK Prime shipping to IE. But ES, DE, IT, FR shipping to IE probably is going to cost something.

Only if they choose to actively screw their customers (which is likely, if you ask me). My latest order from Amazon UK was shipped to Ireland from a warehouse in Italy and the 'free UK delivery' still applied no probs, so the logistics isn't a problem. The problem is Ireland's attachment to the UK and the 'English ways' when it comes to consumer products (electic plug, bathroom systems, cars etc), and the Irish market not being important enough for anyone to care (so I hope I'm wrong but I doubt Amazon will set up warehouses in IE offering the same choice of goods as in UK).

Ubbquittious · 09-12-2020 2:22pm

rodia77 wrote: »

Only if they choose to actively screw their customers (which is likely, if you ask me). My latest order from Amazon UK was shipped to Ireland from a warehouse in Italy and the 'free UK delivery' still applied no probs, so the logistics isn't a problem. The problem is Ireland's attachment to the UK and the 'English ways' when it comes to consumer products (electic plug, bathroom systems, cars etc), and the Irish market not being important enough for anyone to care (so I hope I'm wrong but I doubt Amazon will set up warehouses in IE offering the same choice of goods as in UK).

I hope amazon will phooq off out of this part of the world for good and that their popularity will drop like a stone after the big Brex

jj880 · 09-12-2020 2:34pm

Price compare for all European Amazon sites:

https://www.hagglezon.com/

Pasteur. · 09-12-2020 2:36pm

ELM327 wrote: »

And when the shops in your town are selling for double the price on amazon?

Buy half the amount

Poncke · 09-12-2020 2:50pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I hope amazon will phooq off out of this part of the world for good and that their popularity will drop like a stone after the big Brex

This is like taking a shiiiit in your own garden, doesn't make sense because it would affect only yourself having to put in a lot more effort to get the same items at a higher cost.

I absolutely love Amazon, one stop shop at the lowest price.

Wrongway1985 · 09-12-2020 4:21pm

Poncke wrote: »

This is like taking a shiiiit in your own garden, doesn't make sense because it would affect only yourself having to put in a lot more effort to get the same items at a higher cost.

Not only that he seemingly also wants Irish job losses up to around 5k people, ridiculous notion outta him!

Ubbquittious · 09-12-2020 8:52pm

Poncke wrote: »

This is like taking a shiiiit in your own garden, doesn't make sense because it would affect only yourself having to put in a lot more effort to get the same items at a higher cost.

I absolutely love Amazon, one stop shop at the lowest price.

Rarely is the lowest price. The sh1t in the garden works as a fertiliser so also not a bad idea

Sheep Shagger · 09-12-2020 10:16pm

So according to RTE News, Revenue have confirmed that for online shopping from the UK...

Purchases up to €22 - no duties
€23 to €150 - additional VAT only (no duties)
€150 + - new duties for importing from outside the EU

Not sure about people here but 99% of my Amazon purchases would be worth under €150 so basss on the above there just be an increase in VAT (which we see anyway already)?

Poncke · 09-12-2020 10:46pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Rarely is the lowest price. The sh1t in the garden works as a fertiliser so also not a bad idea

Rarely Amazon is more expensive than anywhere else

AutoTuning · 09-12-2020 10:53pm

We need to provide some solid advice on plugs & adaptors.

I'd like approved Irish to CEE 7 (Schuko) adapters being regulated by the NSAI or EU agencies.

There's a lot of nonsense floating around. Continental plugs are earthed, when they need to be. There's two pins and the earth is the clip on the top and bottom. If they don't need earth, there's no earth strip.

We just have a system that has 3 pin plugs for two wire appliances that don't need earth, so the 3rd pin is unused and the plugs are unnecessarily enormous.

There are absolutely no technical differences between Irish and continental appliances, other than the shape of the plug. You can either use an adaptor plug, or cut the plug off and fit an Irish one. This, however, might cause issues if you try to return something for a refund, other than where it is faulty

I just see a load of nonsense online about this topic, mostly from people who are clueless or Brexity types droning on about how superior British standards are. The reality is both systems are completely safe and reliable - dodgy adapters need to be regulated out of existence though, if CEE 7 plugs are going to end up being a common feature here due to Brexit.

They'll be a regular feature if more of our shopping switches to continental supply chains and online ordering.

stimpson · 10-12-2020 1:15am

There are problems with Shuko plugs. They can be inserted into two-pin unearthed CEE 7/1 sockets they can also be inserted into some sockets with a different form of earth connection that will not mate with the earth contacts on the Schuko plug (e.g., some variants of the Danish socket). Many shuko sockets also lack the cavity required to prevent users from touching the pins whilst inserting the plug.

From a safety perspective the U.K. style plugs are better.

AutoTuning · 10-12-2020 3:16am

That's more of a question of ancient sockets that should have long since been replaced still hanging around in some buildings on the continent rather than a problem with CEE 7/X. It retained backwards compatibility with some obsolete systems that aren't really part of the standard at all.

Denmark's rather unfortunate decision to design an socket outlet that fits the earthed plugs used throughout the rest of Scandinavia, the Nordic region and Germany without connecting the earth is really an issue with the Danish system, not Schuko. They're now installing French type sockets in Denmark btw - which is basically polarised Schuko, with shutters.

I mean, China managed to adopt US 2-pin sockets and use them with 230V. That doesn't make it a problem with the US system, rather someone making some very odd design choices elsewhere. It can result in some interesting experiences for US and Japanese tourists who plug in 100-120V appliances into 230V.

If for, for example, Schuko were adopted (or rather re-adopted as we did use it once) here in Ireland after Brexit, it would be only using modern fittings. There would be no non-grounded sockets of any type, the safety shutters would be mandated (as they are in France, Belgium, Nordic countries etc) and the plugs wouldn't fit the BS1363 sockets that are here already. So, none of those problems with obsolete systems would exist here.

The main thing we need to do with the Brexit situation is ensure that there's clear information on what adaptors are safe and proper regulations about banning dangerous travel adaptors that are often not fully compatible with any plugs. Plenty of them, for example, accept our 3-pin plugs, yet have no contacts in the earth receptacle! I've seen several UK/IE to Chinese (grounded) adaptors that don't connect the ground at all.

The simple reality is going to be that appliances will be arriving here with continental plugs regardless as we're part of a single market and the only big user of the connectors used here has left. So we either provide people with safe information and adaptors, or we pretend it's a non issue and it will result in people using stupidly dangerous adaptors that don't connect earths or that are complete rubbish.

Pre-1993 and the single market, it wasn't at all unusual for appliances here to be sold with CEE 7 plugs or no plugs at all, with the expectation that you fitted your own. A lot of our appliances would have come directly from continental sources as there was still a customs barriers to all other then EEC markets, so it wasn't all that logical to just plug into the UK supply chains.

Also all European appliances and fixtures / fittings have evolved in fairly harmonised safety steps due to the evolution of the Low Voltage Directive, which goes back as far as 1973. Things like the adoption of finger protection on UK/Irish plugs came about because of that. Originally they'd none at all.

The issue for us now is that the UK may well wander off into its own bubble entirely on these things and we can't use UK equipment that isn't CE approved. In the short term that won't matter. In the medium term, you may see a lot more non-CE marked things appearing in the UK. It's not a tiny market and it shares technical standards with places like Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc...

We end up being the EU market with the weird legacy UK standards.

The one that's concerning me far more is cars. All of a sudden there'll be a market of about 6 million (Ireland, Malta and Cyprus) driving on the left, of more than half a billion (EU, EEA, etc) who drive on the right. Our cars will still have to meet European norms for safety, emissions, etc etc... but the EU RHD (Left of road) market will have shrunk from 72+ million to just 6. It's no issue in the short term, but give it a few years and you could find the UK's car market is linked directly to Japan or Australia/NZ.

At present cars marketed in the UK comply with the same rules and regulations as cars marketed in France or Germany. That may all change, particularly if they think there's an economic advantage in doing that or they decide to maybe relax environmental regulations or emissions standards - could popular amongst some Tories etc to be able to buy gas guzzlers.

It could mean we will need derogations on car imports.

That's not something we can solve with a plug adaptor.

Macy0161 · 10-12-2020 10:21am

I've brought from amazon.com - they just add the charges at point of purchase. Is that not the more likely outcome?

Muahahaha · 10-12-2020 11:03am

Have used an adaptor on a coffee grinder I got from Germany without problem for years now. Only hassle with them is how much extra it sticks out from the wall. Though given the grinder is well outside the warranty period anyway I should really just change it over for an Irish plug.

golfball37 · 10-12-2020 11:05am

Does NI count as part of UK or EU for these charges? Will the parcel motel depot in Dublin just have a permanent customs officer

Ubbquittious · 10-12-2020 11:17am

AutoTuning wrote: »

That's more of a question of ancient sockets that should have long since been replaced still hanging around in some buildings on the continent rather than a problem with CEE 7/X. It retained backwards compatibility with some obsolete systems that aren't really part of the standard at all.

Denmark's rather unfortunate decision to design an socket outlet that fits the earthed plugs used throughout the rest of Scandinavia, the Nordic region and Germany without connecting the earth is really an issue with the Danish system, not Schuko. They're now installing French type sockets in Denmark btw - which is basically polarised Schuko, with shutters.

I mean, China managed to adopt US 2-pin sockets and use them with 230V. That doesn't make it a problem with the US system, rather someone making some very odd design choices elsewhere. It can result in some interesting experiences for US and Japanese tourists who plug in 100-120V appliances into 230V.

If for, for example, Schuko were adopted (or rather re-adopted as we did use it once) here in Ireland after Brexit, it would be only using modern fittings. There would be no non-grounded sockets of any type, the safety shutters would be mandated (as they are in France, Belgium, Nordic countries etc) and the plugs wouldn't fit the BS1363 sockets that are here already. So, none of those problems with obsolete systems would exist here.

The main thing we need to do with the Brexit situation is ensure that there's clear information on what adaptors are safe and proper regulations about banning dangerous travel adaptors that are often not fully compatible with any plugs. Plenty of them, for example, accept our 3-pin plugs, yet have no contacts in the earth receptacle! I've seen several UK/IE to Chinese (grounded) adaptors that don't connect the ground at all.

The simple reality is going to be that appliances will be arriving here with continental plugs regardless as we're part of a single market and the only big user of the connectors used here has left. So we either provide people with safe information and adaptors, or we pretend it's a non issue and it will result in people using stupidly dangerous adaptors that don't connect earths or that are complete rubbish.

Pre-1993 and the single market, it wasn't at all unusual for appliances here to be sold with CEE 7 plugs or no plugs at all, with the expectation that you fitted your own. A lot of our appliances would have come directly from continental sources as there was still a customs barriers to all other then EEC markets, so it wasn't all that logical to just plug into the UK supply chains.

Also all European appliances and fixtures / fittings have evolved in fairly harmonised safety steps due to the evolution of the Low Voltage Directive, which goes back as far as 1973. Things like the adoption of finger protection on UK/Irish plugs came about because of that. Originally they'd none at all.

The issue for us now is that the UK may well wander off into its own bubble entirely on these things and we can't use UK equipment that isn't CE approved. In the short term that won't matter. In the medium term, you may see a lot more non-CE marked things appearing in the UK. It's not a tiny market and it shares technical standards with places like Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc...

We end up being the EU market with the weird legacy UK standards.

The one that's concerning me far more is cars. All of a sudden there'll be a market of about 6 million (Ireland, Malta and Cyprus) driving on the left, of more than half a billion (EU, EEA, etc) who drive on the right. Our cars will still have to meet European norms for safety, emissions, etc etc... but the EU RHD (Left of road) market will have shrunk from 72+ million to just 6. It's no issue in the short term, but give it a few years and you could find the UK's car market is linked directly to Japan or Australia/NZ.

At present cars marketed in the UK comply with the same rules and regulations as cars marketed in France or Germany. That may all change, particularly if they think there's an economic advantage in doing that or they decide to maybe relax environmental regulations or emissions standards - could popular amongst some Tories etc to be able to buy gas guzzlers.

It could mean we will need derogations on car imports.

That's not something we can solve with a plug adaptor.

Feck sake. Let's just bring back the bakelite BS546 sockets for the laugh

AutoTuning · 10-12-2020 12:25pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Does NI count as part of UK or EU for these charges? Will the parcel motel depot in Dublin just have a permanent customs officer

No. Basically the customs arrangements would allow goods for use or consumption in Northern Ireland to be passed through, but not a package forwarding service that uses NI as a backdoor into the EU.

If anything, this is exactly the kind of thing that would have to attract attention from customs.

There's also a big issue in the sense that UK packages delivered to the likes of Parcel Motel would need a customs declaration. If you buy something normally within the EU, it's just shipped in the same way as a domestic package. There's no external customs paperwork declaring the value and contents, as there would be on an international package.

Parcel Motel is diverting domestic UK packages into the EU. The seller doesn't know they are exporting, so won't have any paperwork and without those declarations that'll become very problematic.

It's likely that unless the seller is packaging the items for international shipping, they would have serious difficulty clearing customs entering the EU/Ireland.

There are exemptions from tartifs for many items and also for items below a certain small value, but without paperwork on the package, that's not going to work.

It's potentially very problematic and bureaucratic, even with an agreement in place. Without one it's a total mess.

Either way you're looking at pre 1993 style customs with just NI existing in a bubble of both.

ablelocks · 10-12-2020 12:29pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

So according to RTE News, Revenue have confirmed that for online shopping from the UK...

Purchases up to €22 - no duties
€23 to €150 - additional VAT only (no duties)
€150 + - new duties for importing from outside the EU

Not sure about people here but 99% of my Amazon purchases would be worth under €150 so basss on the above there just be an increase in VAT (which we see anyway already)?

as far as i know, the additional VAT is included in the upto €150, so something that is marked £147 could bring you over the €150 once you click the buy button.

AutoTuning · 10-12-2020 12:34pm

ablelocks wrote: »

as far as i know, the additional VAT is included in the upto €150, so something that is marked £147 could bring you over the €150 once you click the buy button.

That's all fine and well except if items are shipped as international and declared properly. I could see a lot of UK retailers opting not to export if it attracts complicated paperwork. The ones that are geared up for it might, but the ones that just see the odd order from Ireland might just see it as more hassle than it's worth if they don't have a volume of trade.

There's really no way for something like Parcel Motel to do this if they're just received packages without any information on the outside. It could be a €10.95 book or it could be a €2000 laptop.

It's not impossible but it's not straightforward at all. For example, you might be able to provide receipts to parcel motel online and clear customs & make payment but it's a lot of extra bureaucracy and a big volume.

Sheep Shagger · 10-12-2020 2:23pm

Can anyone confirm if a €50 item for example will attract any new vat or duty charges if ordered on co.uk for delivery to Dublin? Or will it be BAU.

Some news outlets saying it won't....personally order very little that is over €50 or €100 on an individual item.

AutoTuning · 10-12-2020 2:53pm

Unfortunately, until Sunday we can't really confirm anything. It's likely that it would only require collection of VAT based on what Revenue has been saying, but everything's up in the air until a deal is finalised.

The biggest risk is parcels getting stopped due to lack of any documentation at all.

I'd predict a lot of confusion and teething problems in January.

bigar · 10-12-2020 10:51pm

Amazon has a warehouse in Rathcoole now so I assume they will be using that as much as possible. You can see a difference now already with next day deliveries including in the weekend. Now I hope they will get an .ie shop soon.

FGR · 12-12-2020 2:17am

bigar wrote: »

Amazon has a warehouse in Rathcoole now so I assume they will be using that as much as possible. You can see a difference now already with next day deliveries including in the weekend. Now I hope they will get an .ie shop soon.

I wonder about this. It made sense to use the uk site for Ireland as it was neighbouring and had similar plugs and the like - same goes for the de site servicing Austria and other neighbouring countries - but expecting irish users to go to the German site would need serious advertising as most people wouldn't be naturally inclined to think such a thing.

That is, unless the .ie domain will forward you to the english version of the German site as opposed to the uk one.

I do hope they bite the bullet and just open an Irish storefront with goods being forwarded to their Irish depot from Germany - as that would sort out the cost of postage and hopefully the issue with plugs and the like.

Brexit: Alternatives to Amazon.co.uk

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