Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

Car99 · 22-01-2021 5:56pm

galwaytt wrote: »

two more I heard about in recent days:
1999 XKR - €5000

2017 X7 - I didn't get the exact number, but it was up €3500 over what the calc was in early December. He couldn't get an inspection until January 17th and they basically shrugged their shoulders and said 'It's 2021, 2021 rules apply'. So he coughed up and is appealing it.

That's the NCTs default get whatever the computer says and then you can appeal it.

Appeal with docs proving car was in the country prior to 2021 and it should be ok.

I cleared a 2014 A4 a few years ago it was €900 more than the VRT calculator estimate.

I asked what statistical code did you use and his was different to the stat code I had from my vrt calculator estimate. I asked him to use my stat code instead he ran it through the computer and said yep you can use that code also.

I asked him to clear the car using my code he said no it's done now you'll have to appeal it which I did and got my €900 back but alot of hassle on my part . Appeals procedure is useful but slow.

Why do we have to do everything by post still in this country when an online service would be cheaper and more efficient for everyone.

w124man · 22-01-2021 10:21pm

Car99 wrote: »

Did it work out cheaper or the same as buying the same car here?

Hard to tell as there wasn't a similar one for sale but I don't think so

w124man · 22-01-2021 10:23pm

galwaytt wrote: »

two more I heard about in recent days:
1999 XKR - €5000

2017 X7 - I didn't get the exact number, but it was up €3500 over what the calc was in early December. He couldn't get an inspection until January 17th and they basically shrugged their shoulders and said 'It's 2021, 2021 rules apply'. So he coughed up and is appealing it.

Was that duty and Vat?

commited · 23-01-2021 3:32pm

w124man wrote: »

IF you buy from a dealer and IF you are VAT registered, you can claim the UK VAT back

Only if the car is VAT qualifying in the UK, if not then its not possible.

Tomal · 09-02-2021 10:53pm

Can I ask a question. If car brought into NI from GB by a private buyer and import paperwork done by new owner and NI plates put on (actually do NI plates have to be put on or is it ok if GB plates left on the car? ) . How long does it have to be in NI before can be sold to ROI without extra taxes added.

galwaytt · 10-02-2021 12:45pm

Tomal wrote: »

Can I ask a question. If car brought into NI from GB by a private buyer and import paperwork done by new owner and NI plates put on (actually do NI plates have to be put on or is it ok if GB plates left on the car? ) . How long does it have to be in NI before can be sold to ROI without extra taxes added.

Nobody knows, literally.

I'm looking at a car in NI (from a garage) and as far as I can see they know even less about it. The answer I got (and it's a GB car, imported prior to Dec 31st, but still wearing GB plates) was along the lines of 'we imported it before Dec 31st so there should be no problem'.

Should.

Sorry, but I can't take a gamble on getting clobbered for 21% VAT based on 'should'.

commited · 10-02-2021 12:54pm

As I understand, NI plates are irrelevant as they are a choice by the owner. "NI registered" means registered to an address in NI

w124man · 10-02-2021 9:50pm

commited wrote: »

Only if the car is VAT qualifying in the UK, if not then its not possible.

Dealer cars do!

commited · 11-02-2021 4:52pm

w124man wrote: »

Dealer cars do!

Are you inferring all dealers used cars are vat qualifying?

Isambard · 11-02-2021 5:01pm

Not likely is it? any used car that has had a private owner in it's history won't be qualifying. I'm guessing he meant Dealers won't be buying anything not qualifying.

wunderbar · 12-02-2021 2:22pm

So lads, I'm looking at a classic commercial that's been lying up over here for a few years pre brexit but as of yet not re-registered from the uk.

I know the VRT will be 200 as its over thirty years old, but its looking like i'd now have to pay VAT aswell at 21%?

or can someone hopefully tell me I'm wrong??

w124man · 12-02-2021 10:45pm

commited wrote: »

Are you inferring all dealers used cars are vat qualifying?

I'm saying that the car my buddy brought in was bought ex VAT. A used or second hand car will be VAT qualifying if it has remained registered to a business throughout its lifetime. His car was a demonstrator so he was able to buy without VAT

Tomal · 14-02-2021 10:10pm

hi5 wrote: »

If the V5 has a Northern Ireland address then he doesn't need any other paperwork, there is no VAT.
He may need an Invoice for VRT but that's always been the case.

So no VAT if car NI registered and any age. I know VRT and NOX will have to be paid on a 2004.

Isambard · 15-02-2021 10:36am

Tomal wrote: »

So no VAT if car NI registered and any age. I know VRT and NOX will have to be paid on a 2004.

It will be interesting to see what happens if that NI car is not of GB build. "the deal" only covers GB made items, I wonder if that affects the NI registered cars.

hi5 · 15-02-2021 11:54am

The wording according to Revenue.ie is 'without any checks on customs status'.
So we can only presume that includes the 10% duty.

Vehicles registered in Northern Ireland before 1 January 2021.

You can register a vehicle registered before 1 January 2021 without any checks on the customs status if it was registered:

in Northern Ireland
or
to a person resident in Northern Ireland.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

Tomal · 15-02-2021 12:08pm

hi5 wrote: »

The wording according to Revenue.ie is 'without any checks on customs status'.
So we can only presume that includes the 10% duty.

Vehicles registered in Northern Ireland before 1 January 2021.

You can register a vehicle registered before 1 January 2021 without any checks on the customs status if it was registered:

in Northern Ireland
or
to a person resident in Northern Ireland.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-registered-in-great-britain-and-subsequently-registered-in-northern-ireland.aspx

Ok. Thanks for that and I checked the link. Reads straight forward enough, car registered in NI before 1st Jan 2021 is just like before.

Did the dealers (big or small) in NI stock pile at all as looks like this would have been the ideal plan. I suppose nobody knew what the deal would be and it happened all over Christmas making the purchasing of vehicles logistically difficult.

commited · 15-02-2021 12:32pm

w124man wrote: »

Friend of mine has just brought in a year old C Class diesel Mercedes. The VAT and duty content cost almost €10,000 on top of the VRT and NOX and, of course, the purchase price.

IF you buy from a dealer and IF you are VAT registered, you can claim the UK VAT back

commited wrote: »

Only if the car is VAT qualifying in the UK, if not then its not possible.

w124man wrote: »

Dealer cars do!

commited wrote: »

Are you inferring all dealers used cars are vat qualifying?

w124man wrote: »

I'm saying that the car my buddy brought in was bought ex VAT. A used or second hand car will be VAT qualifying if it has remained registered to a business throughout its lifetime. His car was a demonstrator so he was able to buy without VAT

Exactly - your friend bought a VAT qualifying car which was the reason he was able to claim back VAT, dealers sell plenty of used non-VAT qualifying cars too! Forums can be a great source of information but also misinformation - your original post should have said
IF you buy a VAT Qualifying car from a dealer and IF you are VAT registered, you can claim the UK VAT back.

MAJJ · 20-02-2021 10:41pm

I've read the full thread and have some questions.
Looking to import a classic - 31 year German Merc C124 car from UK.
Trying to establish a consensus on costs.

Car cost 5,000 EUR
Transport 450 EUR
VRT 200 EUR
Duty 10% (because it originally came from Germany 31 years ago)
VAT 21% (23% end of Feb)

Is the Duty and VAT based on the invoice of 5,000 EUR or on the OMSP?
I know OMSP is used normally for VRT.

Isambard · 21-02-2021 11:04am

Invoice price + transport costs.

pg recovery · 26-02-2021 1:25am

Hi I'm wondering if anyone can clear up a few questions for me regarding importing an 88 Toyota carina from England now

I understand the vrt will be 200e

I understand that the car will attract vat and customs fees as well

Can someone tell me how the vat and customs fees are arrived at?

How can they put a value on the car...do they have a database or will they accept a handwritten invoice stating what price I gave for the car

Thanks for the help everyone

newmember2 · 26-02-2021 3:30am

commited wrote: »

...your original post should have said
IF you buy a VAT Qualifying car from a dealer and IF you are VAT registered, you can claim the UK VAT back.

You don't have to be VAT registered to get the VAT back from the UK seller.

Isambard · 26-02-2021 9:51am

pg recovery wrote: »

Hi I'm wondering if anyone can clear up a few questions for me regarding importing an 88 Toyota carina from England now

I understand the vrt will be 200e

I understand that the car will attract vat and customs fees as well

Can someone tell me how the vat and customs fees are arrived at?

How can they put a value on the car...do they have a database or will they accept a handwritten invoice stating what price I gave for the car

Thanks for the help everyone

any taxes other than VRT are based on the Invoice Price. I would imagine it would be likely that they might check that the Invoice is somewhere near reality. I don't think it's been established yet whether a handwritten invoice from a private seller will be accepted still. CAn't think of a reason why not

commited · 26-02-2021 2:50pm

newmember? wrote: »

You don't have to be VAT registered to get the VAT back from the UK seller.

That's great, I always thought that was the case but I've never gone through the process and plenty of people have been stating you have to be VAT registered.

Out of interest, do you know more about the process?

Car99 · 26-02-2021 8:51pm

commited wrote: »

That's great, I always thought that was the case but I've never gone through the process and plenty of people have been stating you have to be VAT registered.

Out of interest, do you know more about the process?

Most sellers of VAT qualifying cars wont charge you the VAT if the car is for export.

w124man · 26-02-2021 9:47pm

commited wrote: »

Forums can be a great source of information but also misinformation - your original post should have said
IF you buy a VAT Qualifying car from a dealer and IF you are VAT registered, you can claim the UK VAT back.

Yeah! There's a great site called www.revenue.ie which explains stuff about VAT!

Makes a good read, try it!

newmember2 · 06-03-2021 1:20am

Isambard wrote: »

any taxes other than VRT are based on the Invoice Price. I would imagine it would be likely that they might check that the Invoice is somewhere near reality. I don't think it's been established yet whether a handwritten invoice from a private seller will be accepted still. CAn't think of a reason why not

I can't see how this is gonna fly...^^^

I rock up with an invoice or receipt for x value and revenue are just going to say "our calculations value that car at x+y+z amount so we will be disregarding your Invoice/receipt".

Car99 · 06-03-2021 10:55am

newmember? wrote: »

I can't see how this is gonna fly...^^^

I rock up with an invoice or receipt for x value and revenue are just going to say "our calculations value that car at x+y+z amount so we will be disregarding your Invoice/receipt".

I wondered about this.

Hypothetically If you get a really good deal on something say winning an Ebay UK auction at a ridiculously low price because the item was listed in the wrong section with the wrong spelling by an uniformed seller say a 1986 528i was listed in model cars and listed simply as Old car and you paid £500 for it even though it has an easily achievable value of £5000.
In this case you can show Revenue all documents relating to the auction with a reasonable explanation .

Are revenue LIKELY to say similar goods are valued at 5k you owe us €900 in VAT+duty (which they can choose to do) or would they say you verified you paid €500 so you owe us €90 ?

steinbock123 · 06-03-2021 2:08pm

Revenue being Revenue are VERY likely to charge the higher figure.
You pay first and appeal it later.

Isambard · 06-03-2021 4:11pm

Car99 wrote: »

I wondered about this.

Hypothetically If you get a really good deal on something say winning an Ebay UK auction at a ridiculously low price because the item was listed in the wrong section with the wrong spelling by an uniformed seller say a 1986 528i was listed in model cars and listed simply as Old car and you paid £500 for it even though it has an easily achievable value of £5000.
In this case you can show Revenue all documents relating to the auction with a reasonable explanation .

Are revenue LIKELY to say similar goods are valued at 5k you owe us €900 in VAT+duty (which they can choose to do) or would they say you verified you paid €500 so you owe us €90 ?

I'd say if you have a genuine undisputable invoice, such as one from Ebay or a Dealer of repute, then no problem. If the invoice looks iffy or is handwritten then they'll check out the market value.

newmember2 · 07-03-2021 7:41pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'd say if you have a genuine undisputable invoice, such as one from Ebay or a Dealer of repute, then no problem. If the invoice looks iffy or is handwritten then they'll check out the market value.

Nah...I'd imagine you're paying VAT+Duty on the value of the car not the price you paid for it. Surely someone on here has done it yet?

Isambard · 07-03-2021 8:04pm

newmember? wrote: »

Nah...I'd imagine you're paying VAT+Duty on the value of the car not the price you paid for it. Surely someone on here has done it yet?

VAT, like on any commodity , is normally based on the invoice value. I don't think they'd take kindly to someone falsifying an invoice to avoid paying all the tax due.

newmember2 · 07-03-2021 8:36pm

Isambard wrote: »

VAT, like on any commodity , is normally based on the invoice value. I don't think they'd take kindly to someone falsifying an invoice to avoid paying all the tax due.

Indeed...but it's Value Added Tax not price paid added tax.

Isambard · 07-03-2021 8:56pm

Tell Revenue, that's how it works.

galwaytt · 08-03-2021 4:33pm

Car99 wrote: »

I wondered about this.

Hypothetically If you get a really good deal on something say winning an Ebay UK auction at a ridiculously low price because the item was listed in the wrong section with the wrong spelling by an uniformed seller say a 1986 528i was listed in model cars and listed simply as Old car and you paid £500 for it even though it has an easily achievable value of £5000.
In this case you can show Revenue all documents relating to the auction with a reasonable explanation .

Are revenue LIKELY to say similar goods are valued at 5k you owe us €900 in VAT+duty (which they can choose to do) or would they say you verified you paid €500 so you owe us €90 ?

Revenue can read fora too, you know. And eBay. And probably have he odd lad in there who knows a piston from a pissybed, so I'd say you're unlikely to succeed with the latter...............

68deville · 08-03-2021 7:24pm

The revenue have came across every trick in the book, the brothers ex boss had a daughter living in UK for some years and he bought a new 911 and she registered it in her name and used it sparingly for a year or so and then moved home and change of residency hoping to avail of no vrt, but revenue were able to tell her that on her salary in UK not possible so pony up vrt or take back

reubenreuben · 09-03-2021 4:41pm

68deville wrote: »

The revenue have came across every trick in the book, the brothers ex boss had a daughter living in UK for some years and he bought a new 911 and she registered it in her name and used it sparingly for a year or so and then moved home and change of residency hoping to avail of no vrt, but revenue were able to tell her that on her salary in UK not possible so pony up vrt or take back

How did they know her UK salary ? And could she not have got the money from other sources such as family etc

kadman · 09-03-2021 4:48pm

reubenreuben wrote: »

How did they know her UK salary ? And could she not have got the money from other sources such as family etc

Revenue have powers that only other departments could dream about.
And the fact that we all have birth certs, Insurance numbers and PPS numbers, means that we can hide fek all from them, yet we are still racing towards a cash free society...willingly.:)

reubenreuben · 09-03-2021 4:49pm

kadman wrote: »

Revenue have powers that only other departments could dream about.
And the fact that we all have birth certs, Insurance numbers and PPS numbers, means that we can hide fek all from them, yet we are still racing towards a cash free society...willingly.:)

Recently east Germany springs to mind.

PaddyFagan · 09-03-2021 4:50pm

reubenreuben wrote: »

How did they know her UK salary ? And could she not have got the money from other sources such as family etc

Given the relatively strict money laundering laws.... I suspect they simply asked... and without a clear source for the money herself, revenue formed the opinion that the vehicle wasn't 'her personal property' and so didn't meet the rules for the VRT exemption.

Paddy

Isambard · 09-03-2021 5:21pm

kadman wrote: »

Revenue have powers that only other departments could dream about.
And the fact that we all have birth certs, Insurance numbers and PPS numbers, means that we can hide fek all from them, yet we are still racing towards a cash free society...willingly.:)

i doubt they can access UK salary details.

kadman · 09-03-2021 5:49pm

Isambard wrote: »

i doubt they can access UK salary details.

O yes they can:D

Car99 · 09-03-2021 7:58pm

kadman wrote: »

O yes they can:D

Can they , how do they request that information from HMRC when not part of a criminal investigation? Especially now post brexit.

kadman · 09-03-2021 8:09pm

Car99 wrote: »

Can they , how do they request that information from HMRC when not part of a criminal investigation? Especially now post brexit.

If Ireland has tax treaties with more than 70 countries. These Double Taxation Agreements ensure that income that has been taxed in one country is not taxed again in another country.

If these treaties are in existence, I would think its fairly safe to say that some reciprocity exists between them

Isambard · 09-03-2021 8:34pm

not convinced

kadman · 09-03-2021 9:54pm

Isambard wrote: »

not convinced

Maybe some version of Dun and Bradstreet for individuals at their disposal;)

Car99 · 09-03-2021 10:13pm

kadman wrote: »

If Ireland has tax treaties with more than 70 countries. These Double Taxation Agreements ensure that income that has been taxed in one country is not taxed again in another country.

If these treaties are in existence, I would think its fairly safe to say that some reciprocity exists between them

They can only tax what you declare unless they decide to audit you then you have to prove xyz to them. They dont care if they inadvertently double tax you .

turbocab · 10-03-2021 8:40pm

well looking at this thread since January,there doesnt seem to be any classics imported.Revenue can have all the charges they like,but ill bet they will make far less this year and into the future with there charges ,own goal springs to mind

Isambard · 10-03-2021 8:44pm

turbocab wrote: »

well looking at this thread since January,there doesnt seem to be any classics imported.Revenue can have all the charges they like,but ill bet they will make far less this year and into the future with there charges ,own goal springs to mind

it's Brexit you should blame, not Revenue,

turbocab · 10-03-2021 8:45pm

Isambard wrote: »

it's Brexit you should blame, not Revenue,

Both actually

unkel · 10-03-2021 9:09pm

turbocab wrote: »

Both actually

Nope. Ireland is part of the EU and as such not free to start to make up their own rules about charging VAT or not when importing cars from outside the EU.

The blame is entirely with the British voters who have voted for Brexit, and as such voted for a recession, like turkeys voting for Christmas. Unfortunately Ireland will suffer too.

Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

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