Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Phoenix park

24

Comments

  • #52
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Effects wrote: »
    No, it's not. traffic needs to be reduced and people encouraged to get there by means other than car.

    Ban them from the city centre and the quays then no one has reason to go through the park in the first place.


  • #53
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Argue it so.

    How exactly would stopping cars from driving through a park on their way to somewhere else make the park noticeably less popular?

    Do you think park goers come for the traffic and pollution on Chesterfield Avenue and the rat runs through the back roads or something?

    Most people going to the park drive to it. A lot on their way to and from somewhere. Like on the way home from work.

    They closed it before and it was noticeable quieter.


  • #54
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm not in the park nearly as much as i used to be, and i do remember the damage the buses were doing to the surface before the big job a few years back - what sort of damage are they doing now?...


    Chesterfield Ave had no foundations. That's why it kept falling apart.

    They dug it and an rebuilt a few year back. Road was closed for a long time.


  • #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Why not just bring the 37 and possibly another route (the 38s?) into the park via the Zoo and the northern perimeter (which would capture a good deal of Ashtown)?

    Why would you want to capture Ashtown when its already beside the train, Luas, and loads of buses?


  • #56
    angel eyes 2012
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    Effects wrote: »
    No, it's not. traffic needs to be reduced and people encouraged to get there by means other than car.

    Why do people "need" to be encouraged to get there. Can people not decide where to go themselves instead of being dictated to.


  • #57
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    beauf wrote: »
    Chesterfield Ave had no foundations. That's why it kept falling apart.

    They dug it and an rebuilt a few year back. Road was closed for a long time.
    That's my question - how is it coping with the buses since the big job?


  • #58
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    beauf wrote: »
    Why would you want to capture Ashtown when its already beside the train, Luas, and loads of buses?

    The Blackhorse Avenue side of Ashtown, which is no where near the train. If you were to divert the 37, you'd be taking frequency from Navan Rd, so why not run it along North Rd in the park and offer another option for people who live just outside the walls?


  • #59
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    donvito99 wrote: »
    The Blackhorse Avenue side of Ashtown, which is no where near the train. If you were to divert the 37, you'd be taking frequency from Navan Rd, so why not run it along North Rd in the park and offer another option for people who live just outside the walls?

    If it's no distance from ashtown to the park. Then its even less distance from ashtown or black horse ave to the navan road. Where there's already lots of buses. The 37 already runs down there too.

    While I always like the idea of bus inside the park. The reality is at the Castleknock end there's isn't a lot of people close enough to easily walk it.

    The bulk of drivers though the park are from all of D15 and out into Meath who have no means of getting to park to get this bus without driving.

    They'd be better going to a train station. Which is has no more capacity..


  • #60
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    beauf wrote: »
    While I always like the idea of bus inside the park. The reality is at the Castleknock end there's isn't a lot of people close enough to easily walk it.

    The 37 runs right through the middle of Castleknock.
    The bulk of drivers though the park are from all of D15 and out into Meath who have no means of getting to park to get this bus without driving.

    They can drive down the Navan Rd.
    They'd be better going to a train station. Which is has no more capacity..

    I don't think anyone has suggested putting people driving from Meath on a bus route through the Phoenix Park, this all started with the idea of an underground for people going to the zoo.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    donvito99 wrote: »
    The 37 runs right through the middle of Castleknock.



    They can drive down the Navan Rd.



    I ...

    If you are already on the 37 there is zero point getting off it.

    They can drive to the park but have no where to park when they get there...


  • #62
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    beauf wrote: »
    If you are already on the 37 there is zero point getting off it.

    They can drive to the park but have no where to park when they get there...

    No idea what you're on about.

    Again, you could run the 37 through the park and offer a decent service to the zoo, as was the original point of this discussion. Closing to through traffic would speed up the service for people in Castleknock. People driving through the park at present can go down the Navan Rd.


  • #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I'm mixing up the idea of a shuttle bus in the park. But doesn't leave it. We were discussing that in another thread.

    You mean change the 37 route so it goes through the park perhaps up the North road past the zoo and on onto the city center. Banning cars in the park at peak so they don't hold up the bus. Worth trying.

    I don't think the opw would go for it. But it's not a bad idea.


  • #64
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    If the changes are to stay long term then appropriate parking restriction measures should be introduced all along Blackhorse Avenue and elsewhere for non-residents. The road is packed with cars parked on footpaths from people clearly driving to the area for a walk in the park.


  • #65
    StoptheClocks
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭StoptheClocks


    There is a petition to close Phoenix park to traffic for the rest of the summer if anyone is interested. I can see it working with the lockdown reducing traffic but not when all the measures are lifted.

    https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/no-more-traffic-through-phoenix-park


  • #66
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    People positing on social media photos of being in the park who live no where near it.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm mixing up the idea of a shuttle bus in the park. But doesn't leave it. We were discussing that in another thread.

    You mean change the 37 route so it goes through the park perhaps up the North road past the zoo and on onto the city center. Banning cars in the park at peak so they don't hold up the bus. Worth trying.

    I don't think the opw would go for it. But it's not a bad idea.

    It was suggested years ago to create a dedicated bus lane for the 37 through the Park. It was pushed by PD politician Tom Morrisey. It never went ahead.

    There would need to be serious infrastructural work to accommodate a bus service. Removal of ramps, changing junctions, traffic directions, cycle lanes, changing entrances, removal of gates (currently our for repair), cutting back trees and road surface upgrades. Then there is also the issue of a wild herd of deer. I think opening up the Park to a bus service would be a disaster for the Park.

    In terms of traffic bans, I think the closing of Chesterfield avenue as it is in summer months at weekends is fine but there would be huge opposition both publicly and political against a total ban. There is a massive population West of the Park that rely on it as the only other option, bar Chapelizod Village and the Navan Road. The N3 and Navan Road would be choked and the M50 would probably come to a standstill. It does already when the N3 has heavy build up at J6.


  • #68
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    It was suggested years ago to create a dedicated bus lane for the 37 through the Park. It was pushed by PD politician Tom Morrisey. It never went ahead.

    There would need to be serious infrastructural work to accommodate a bus service. Removal of ramps, changing junctions, traffic directions, cycle lanes, changing entrances, removal of gates (currently our for repair), cutting back trees and road surface upgrades. Then there is also the issue of a wild herd of deer. I think opening up the Park to a bus service would be a disaster for the Park.

    In terms of traffic bans, I think the closing of Chesterfield avenue as it is in summer months at weekends is fine but there would be huge opposition both publicly and political against a total ban. There is a massive population West of the Park that rely on it as the only other option, bar Chapelizod Village and the Navan Road. The N3 and Navan Road would be choked and the M50 would probably come to a standstill. It does already when the N3 has heavy build up at J6.

    Still amazed that people think a bus service running every 10minutes or so will "be a disaster for the park" but using Chesterfield Avenue as a major trunk route for commutes by car is grand.


  • #69
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    In terms of traffic bans, I think the closing of Chesterfield avenue as it is in summer months at weekends is fine but there would be huge opposition both publicly and political against a total ban. There is a massive population West of the Park that rely on it as the only other option, bar Chapelizod Village and the Navan Road. The N3 and Navan Road would be choked and the M50 would probably come to a standstill. It does already when the N3 has heavy build up at J6.

    So they've no other options apart from all those other options. That makes no sense.

    And how could a bus route be a complete disaster, yet thousands of cars using it as a trunk route is grand?


  • #70
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Still amazed that people think a bus service running every 10minutes or so will "be a disaster for the park" but using Chesterfield Avenue as a major trunk route for commutes by car is grand.

    Maybe an electric float of sorts


  • #71
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So they've no other options apart from all those other options. That makes no sense.
    ...?

    Well that's the reality. It's basically squeezing all the traffic from D15 which is a massive area and Meath down to one main road and two smaller and very unsuitable ones.

    Hence why the park route is so significant. That it's a terrible use of the park is not in question.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    There would need to be serious infrastructural work to accommodate a bus service. Removal of ramps, changing junctions, traffic directions, cycle lanes, changing entrances, removal of gates (currently our for repair), cutting back trees and road surface upgrades.
    all that to use chesterfield avenue?


  • #73
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    all that to use chesterfield avenue?

    A certain amount yes but it was in response to using the North Road for the 37.

    Anyway the 37 is just one bus route that services a fraction of a huge population. Any route through the park would need to be a new route or several bus routes.

    Should a new route go through the Park you’re not suddenly going to find all commuters that drive through the Park switch to the bus.

    The Park is well serviced by buses already. There are bus stops at or close to every gate bar White’s Gate and Knockmaroon gate. Granted a slight walk to the gate on Blackhorse Ave.

    A shuttle bus service circulating the Park might be an option but it failed a few years back so difficult to see how it might work again.


  • #74
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    Most people going to the park drive to it.
    Those people can still drive to it through ban or complete.
    beauf wrote: »
    A lot on their way to and from somewhere. Like on the way home from work.
    Those people can still drive to it on their way to or from somewhere through ban or complete.
    beauf wrote: »
    They closed it before and it was noticeable quieter.
    Based on what surveys?


  • #75
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Those people can still drive to it through ban or complete.


    Those people can still drive to it on their way to or from somewhere through ban or complete.

    Based on what surveys?

    What's the point of driving to it, if you can't park at it. That makes no sense.

    Survey of my eyes going through it twice a day. You literally met almost no one. Half the time the roadworks were not working and they only worked on one small section at a time. So workmen either.

    There was far fewer cyclists and runners in society in general back then.


  • #76
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    What's the point of driving to it, if you can't park at it. That makes no sense.

    Survey of my eyes going through it twice a day. You literally met almost no one. Half the time the roadworks were not working and they only worked on one small section at a time. So workmen either.

    There was far fewer cyclists and runners in society in general back then.

    You can still park in the park or around it.

    I'll never understand this attitude 'ok family everyone in the car we are going for a nice walk. Owe wait what's this we'll have to walk 5 minutes extra to get to the walk!? Walk cancelled!'

    Survey of your eyes aka no evidence


  • #77
    p_haugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Sure the 46a terminates beside the entrance on infirmary Road, which is the guts of a 5 minute walk to the door of the zoo. Now, it could be said that the terminus could be changed to the coach park area if you wanted a bus to the door of the place, however I doubt a bus could easily fit through that gate without adjustments.


  • #78
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    You can still park in the park or around it.

    We are talking about stopping that.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I'll never understand this attitude 'ok family everyone in the car we are going for a nice walk. Owe wait what's this we'll have to walk 5 minutes extra to get to the walk!? Walk cancelled!'

    Because not everyone is 5 mins walk from it. Often they have mobility impared people with them.

    It's kinda why I don't take 3 hours to walk to work. Or to the sea side for a walk. Or anywhere really. Don't have unlimited leisure time. Even now.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Survey of your eyes aka no evidence

    No complaints about other people's observations and no surveys for them. Are they also invalid then. Lol.


  • #79
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Sure the 46a terminates beside the entrance on infirmary Road, which is the guts of a 5 minute walk to the door of the zoo. Now, it could be said that the terminus could be changed to the coach park area if you wanted a bus to the door of the place, however I doubt a bus could easily fit through that gate without adjustments.

    People getting the 46a are unlikely to be driving through the length of the park to get the zoo. They are already at the end of the park where the zoo is. No?


  • #80
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    We are talking about stopping that.
    No we aren't. The park will still be in Dublin isn't not being folded into an alternate universe
    beauf wrote: »
    Because not everyone is 5 mins walk from it. Often they have mobility impared people with them.
    I didn't say everyone was that close I said drive but maybe park 5 minutes away. Blue badge holders can be accommodated
    beauf wrote: »
    It's kinda why I don't take 3 hours to walk to work. Or to the sea side for a walk. Or anywhere really. Don't have unlimited leisure time. Even now.
    Yup because 5 minutes and 180 minutes are basically the same thing
    "beauf wrote: »

    No complaints about other people's observations and no surveys for them. Are they also invalid then. Lol.

    Yes equally invalid . Anecdotes are really harmful to a reasoned discussion as they'll often be treated with the same weight as actual evidence


  • #81
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    No we aren't. The park will still be in Dublin isn't not being folded into an alternate universe

    I didn't say everyone was that close I said drive but maybe park 5 minutes away. Blue badge holders can be accommodated

    Never mentioned drive and park and it's not what you implied either. You can be mobility impaired and not have badge.

    There is no suitable parking outside of the park within 5 mins anyway.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Yes equally invalid . Anecdotes are really harmful to a reasoned discussion as they'll often be treated with the same weight as actual evidence

    It's all invalid as comparing lockdown with normal time isn't valid. It's like comparing a wet cold winters day during working hours with a heat wave at the weekend during some big event.

    But we have had half the road closed for years during summer weekends. We have the entire road closed for months before, when they rebuilt it. Those are facts. And I qualified my comment that people weren't as physically active back then add they are now. So less people in the park. There were less cyclists also.

    It's very obvious that the people walking on the cycle lanes are getting out of cars parked beside it. Ergo they are using the car to access the park for leisure. This is reinforced the fact its worse in the evenings and at the weekends.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    This is posted on the other thread.
    KevRossi wrote: »
    Six options for a new layout for pedestrians and cyclists, laid out here in an article from early 2019.

    https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians

    At least they are thinking of the options.


  • #83
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    You can be mobility impaired and not have badge.

    Let me expand on your crocodile tears argument.

    What about the old,young and disabled who could get PT? Tough ****. What about the old, young and disabled who could walk but can't because of illegal parking and lack of infrastructure? Tough ****. What about people without access to a car? Tough ****. What about the old, young and disabled who could cycle? Tough ****. What about facilitating the mobility impaired with blue badges, kiss n ride mobility aids? No motordom!


  • #84
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »

    There is no suitable parking outside of the park within 5 mins anyway.



    .

    There is on street parking on infirmary road


  • #85
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    There is on street parking on infirmary road

    Apparently it needs to be 5km long .. since that how long the parking in the park is. Both sides.


  • #86
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Let me expand on your crocodile tears argument.

    What about the old,young and disabled who could get PT? Tough ****. What about the old, young and disabled who could walk but can't because of illegal parking and lack of infrastructure? Tough ****. What about people without access to a car? Tough ****. What about the old, young and disabled who could cycle? Tough ****. What about facilitating the mobility impaired with blue badges, kiss n ride mobility aids? No motordom!

    In fairness they should ban bicycles then also. Make everyone walk. Instructure problems solved .


  • #87
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    In fairness they should ban bicycles then also. Make everyone walk. Instructure problems solved .

    Well if we banned cars and there still wasn't enough space for pedestrians or cyclist were causing a danger then yes. Ban cyclist as per DMURS


  • #88
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    Apparently it needs to be 5km long .. since that how long the parking in the park is. Both sides.

    But you can still use that parking in the park so what is your issue?


  • #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Well if we banned cars and there still wasn't enough space for pedestrians or cyclist were causing a danger then yes. Ban cyclist as per DMURS

    How about we ban everything except a solitary deer.

    Much cheaper.


  • #90
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    beauf wrote: »
    How about we ban everything except a solitary deer.

    Much cheaper.

    Do you have an argument or is it just hyperbolic nonsense?


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    Phil.x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Maybe lock all the fcuking gates and throw away the keys ffs.


  • #92
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Maybe lock all the fcuking gates and throw away the keys ffs.

    Seems like a touch of an over reaction just because you can't drive through it


  • #93
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    caff wrote: »
    Would it be feasible at all to have a phoenix park station from the phoenix park tunnel? Would it be too complex to develop a station there?

    Could you justify the expense considering there is Heuston around the corner with both Rail and Luas stop, and a massive car park for that matter, and a bus terminus.

    Thus far the re-introduction of that line has caused havoc on the maynooth line schedule. Constant delays. Must have added 10 mins to every other train journey. Not entirely sure why that is.

    But I would wonder at the effect of a new station at the zoo etc..

    Then again the expense. It might be 2 deer.


  • #94
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Maybe lock all the fcuking gates and throw away the keys ffs.

    Or just this thread.


  • #95
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    beauf wrote: »
    Could you justify the expense considering there is Heuston around the corner with both Rail and Luas stop, and a massive car park for that matter, and a bus terminus.

    Thus far the re-introduction of that line has caused havoc on the maynooth line schedule. Constant delays. Must have added 10 mins to every other train journey. Not entirely sure why that is.

    But I would wonder at the effect of a new station at the zoo etc..

    Then again the expense. It might be 2 deer.

    Adding a station would allow you to close one of the car parks, as now more people from all over the country could get a train directly there. As some people have said/implied previously in this thread, there are people out there who won't go to the park unless they can park directly inside the park.

    The problems with the Maynooth line should be sorted once the Dart Expansion and Metrolink are built, as they'll be upgrading the signalling and the junction at Whitworth.


  • #96
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Considering they are thinking of moving the dockland station 500m or so maybe you are right. I think it's a bit of a stretch with our history of training decades to deliver flawed infrastructure projects..


  • Advertisement
  • #97
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    It is already very popular all day all year round. I’d argue if you currently banned cars through it / to it, it would be noticeably less popular.

    I was referring to the popularity of the bus service


  • #98
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    beauf wrote: »
    Most people going to the park drive to it. A lot on their way to and from somewhere. Like on the way home from work.

    They closed it before and it was noticeable quieter.

    False. Currently nobody drives there and it's thronged with people.


  • #99
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    beauf wrote: »
    How about we ban everything except a solitary deer.

    Much cheaper.

    Why are you hysterical?


  • #100
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    cgcsb wrote: »
    False. Currently nobody drives there and it's thronged with people.

    I was there for an hour earlier and it was very quiet. It was busy earlier in the day apparently.

    My earlier comment was a referring to a long time ago. We are in a lockdown now. But it makes perfect sense to ignore that context obviously.

    Just close it for 6 months as trial. No reason not to.


  • #101
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Why are you hysterical?

    Someone else wants to ban all cars regardless of need, wheelchair etc., And all cyclists. I'm just saying it would save a lot money just to have one deer... And no I've never heard of hyperbole.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement