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Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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13567…36

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    #62
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I commute through the park in normal times, the entire length of Chesterfield Avenue.
    In normal times I use the cycle path, despite walkers, runners, and most infuriatingly bike salmon. In fairness to the peds it's quite badly designed in that if they step out of their cars on Chesterfield Avenue they think the cycle lane is the footpad, despite the non walking signs.

    Unless they ban parking the Avenue itself is pretty unpleasant. I use it when not commuting cos I'm going faster. It's serious dooring/ pulling out in front of you territory.
    If they keep the parking ban on Chesterfield Avenue it would be fine to pedal on the hard shoulder.

    I signed the petition, keep cars out of the park. It shouldn't be a through way, or a carpark.


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    #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mercian Pro wrote: »
    ...
    For those who commute regularly by bike along Chesterfield Avenue, will the new proposal of on-road cycle lanes be an improvement over the current off-road cycle paths? I suspect for a lot of less confident non-commuting cyclists, the cycle paths would be more popular.

    There's a wide range of cycling speed and ability on those paths even when commuting. The problem is the paths are flooded with pedestrians in the evenings and weekends. Must be impossible at the moment.


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    #64
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    eeeee wrote: »
    ...I signed the petition, keep cars out of the park. It shouldn't be a through way, or a carpark...


    There's lots of different people of all sorts of physical abilities from young and old who use the park. Most of them use a car to access the park. Lots of locals use it and stop on the way to and from other places.

    Now we want to ban them and/or make them drive into the city and then back around to access the park from the other side in usually heavy traffic.

    Banning cars will effectively block a huge amount of people from enjoying it.


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    #65
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    beauf wrote: »
    I've cycled it for years. But I couldn't do it everyday any more. Also often I'm going multiple places and the bike is not viable.

    I wasn't referring to you, just everyone else who uses the park for driving.


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    #66
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    beauf wrote: »
    There's lots of different people of all sorts of physical abilities from young and old who use the park. Most of them use a car to access the park. Lots of locals use it and stop on the way to and from other places.

    Now we want to ban them and/or make them drive into the city and then back around to access the park from the other side in usually heavy traffic.

    Banning cars will effectively block a huge amount of people from enjoying it.

    Blocking a through road isn't banning cars, nor (shamefully) stopping people from driving to it.


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    #67
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Parking on chesterfield road should be at the very least serverly restricted.

    It's used as a free car park mon-friday for thousands of cars.

    There's nearly a 10 k stretch (5 either side) of free parking available. It's completely absurd that the park is basically just car park at the best of times


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    #68
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mercian Pro wrote: »
    ...For those who commute regularly by bike along Chesterfield Avenue, will the new proposal of on-road cycle lanes be an improvement over the current off-road cycle paths? I suspect for a lot of less confident non-commuting cyclists, the cycle paths would be more popular...

    Most of the roads in the park do not have cycle lanes.

    Most of the roads that you use to get to the park do not have cycle lanes.

    From the Zoo to parkgate you are on the road, and out side the zoo you are on the road.

    Even on the avenue you have to use the road at the roundabouts.

    So I'm wondering how are these less confident cyclists going to get to the park and anywhere in it, if not on a road.

    Personally I prefer the paths, and I'm slow and getting in the way of all these commuter racers. But I'll use the roads where it makes more sense. Often it does.


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    #69
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to you, just everyone else who uses the park for driving.

    I also use it for driving and cycling.


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    #70
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Parking on chesterfield road should be at the very least serverly restricted.

    It's used as a free car park mon-friday for thousands of cars.

    There's nearly a 10 k stretch (5 either side) of free parking available. It's completely absurd that the park is basically just car park at the best of times

    Some exaggeration. The parking really is only around the zoo and about half way to the Áras at worst. Some of those are going to the zoo. Ave is 8k. Cars do not park from parkgate to the phoenix roundabout on both sides. That would only be 8k.

    I'm not saying that's desirable. But it never caused me a problem. But the the cycle lanes are very poorly designed. I do like using them though.


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    #71
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    Blocking a through road isn't banning cars, nor (shamefully) stopping people from driving to it.

    "keep cars out of the park"

    Seems pretty clearcut.

    I'm all for better cycle facilities. And I know that if you remove roads the traffic can disperse. But it's generally in places where there's good alternatives like public transport etc.

    They can always trial it for 6 months and see if it works out.


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    #72
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    More in the journal

    Traffic through Phoenix Park 'unlikely to change' as main avenue to remain for essential workers https://jrnl.ie/5099649


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    #73
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    beauf wrote: »
    "keep cars out of the park"

    Seems pretty clearcut.

    I'm all for better cycle facilities. And I know that if you remove roads the traffic can disperse. But it's generally in places where there's good alternatives like public transport etc.

    They can always trial it for 6 months and see if it works out.


    Cars aren't currently kept out of the park. It's a restriction on them.


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    #74
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Cars aren't currently kept out of the park. It's a restriction on them.

    We know.


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    #75
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    beauf wrote: »

    I'm not saying that's desirable. But it never caused me a problem. But the the cycle lanes are very poorly designed. I do like using them though.

    It definitely has me.
    To stay out if the dooring zone on Chesterfield Avenue, you have to cycle well out. The cycle lanes are full of people, and in my experience the cars behind me aren't best pleased sitting behind me.
    I've lost count of the amount of cars that suddenly pull out in front of me along there, as well as cars that pass me out then suddenly pull in in front of me when they see a spot.
    The only bit of Chesterfield Avenue that doesn't have cars parked either side is the middle on my commute, there are lots parked both sides at the castleknock end too.
    The lack of cars there are the moment (I had to go into the office 1 day during the lockdown) made it way, way, way better and nicer to pedal through. It's not even vaguely comparable.
    The park is a destination not a through way or a carpark. I have yet to hear one single convincing argument for allowing it to become both again.


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    #76
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    eeeee wrote: »
    ... there are lots parked both sides at the castleknock end too.
    ....
    The park is a destination not a through way or a carpark. I have yet to hear one single convincing argument for allowing it to become both again.

    People parking at the Castleknock end are using the park. Not commuting. So we ARE talking about not letting ANY cars into the park not just banning through journeys but also those using the park.


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    #77
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I also don't understand why there isn't a 30km/hr speed limit throughout the Park.


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    #78
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    eeeee wrote: »
    ... The cycle lanes are full of people, and in my experience the cars behind me aren't best pleased sitting behind me.
    I've lost count of the amount of cars that suddenly pull out in front of me along there, as well as cars that pass me out then suddenly pull in in front of me when they see a spot.
    ....

    Maybe they should ban people not cycling as well.

    Cars looking for parking and doing a left hook pulling in can't be going that fast. I wouldn't be advocating using the road the whole way unless you are moving fairly fast. If you are not the cycle lane would be a better place to be.

    I only find the cycle lanes too busy with walkers in the evening on fine days or the weekend. Unless it's got significantly worst in the post year since I last did it.


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    #79
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,393 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    beauf wrote: »
    People parking at the Castleknock end are using the park. Not commuting. So we ARE talking about not letting ANY cars into the park not just banning through journeys but also those using the park.

    Sorry, but a lot of them are commuting. Park the car near the entrance so the traffic jam on the way out is shorter. Cycle in from there. I know this from experience.

    Can't blame them as it saves on parking charges in town and beats a lot of the commuting time.


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    #80
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Sorry, but a lot of them are commuting. Park the car near the entrance so the traffic jam on the way out is shorter. Cycle in from there. I know this from experience.

    Can't blame them as it saves on parking charges in town and beats a lot of the commuting time.

    +1, same on White's Road down by the service entrance to Farmleigh, same cars parked there daily with either a bike in the boot or on a rack that's used to commute the rest of the way.

    I wouldn't be against through traffic in the park if parking along Chesterfield avenue was removed entirely. Re-purpose the hard shoulder as a cycle lane and give priority to those cycle lanes at existing roundabouts.

    I cycle through the Phoenix Park year round normally and use the hard shoulder in the mornings when city bound as traffic/parked cars are less plus you get better speed with gravity and the prevailing wind. Use the cycle lanes coming back in the evening but they can be a disaster and dangerous on bank holidays and sunny evenings. I have used the North Road a number of times commuting home but the surface is pathetic with severe speed bumps even in the cycle lanes.


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    #81
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Sorry, but a lot of them are commuting. Park the car near the entrance so the traffic jam on the way out is shorter. Cycle in from there. I know this from experience.

    Can't blame them as it saves on parking charges in town and beats a lot of the commuting time.

    Only a handful are doing that. Also any one doing that isn't local as it would be easier to cycle from their house than do that. They also will then drive straight into the traffic immediately after the park in Castleknock or the Navan road.

    Most are people going for a jog or a walk.

    I know that from experience also.


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    #82
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Have to say cycling through the park is usually the best part of my commute. Rarely have a problem with the cars. The odd muppet at the roundabout.

    .. and headwinds out of town... real slog some days.


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    #83
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,393 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Six options for a new layout for pedestrians and cyclists, laid out here in an article from early 2019.

    https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/27/six-options-on-table-for-making-phoenix-park-safer-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians


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    #84
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Stark wrote: »
    I also don't understand why there isn't a 30km/hr speed limit throughout the Park.
    because it wouldn't be policed.


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    #85
    Mercian Pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Mercian Pro


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    because it wouldn't be policed.

    Should be a suitable location for average speed cameras with number plate detection. The whole process could be automated like in the Port Tunnel.


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    #86
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i like your thinking. unfortunately, those in charge don't.


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    #87
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    People must definitely park and ride at the castleknock entrance, and no where did I mention banning cars from the Phoenix park.
    What I said, and I'll say it again, is that the Phoenix park should not be used as a through way or a carpark.

    I don't see any justification for using both sides of Chesterfield Avenue as a carpark as it is at present. Pedestrians need space, and a lot like to stay in the current cycle lane. When it's sunny, or in the run up to last Christmas when the lights thing was on in the zoo the cycle lane is full of pedestrians.
    Moving the cycle lane to the hard shoulders makes more sense in terms of how people read space, and removes considerable risk from cars pulling in or out in front of you, dooring and punishment passes from cars who believe you should be on the cycle lane only.
    My experience of cycling the length of Chesterfield Avenue twice a day every day I go to work (pre covid) informs my opinion.


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    #88
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Well if you can drive through it and you can't park in it. What would you do in a car, just drive half way into it then drive right back out of it. Bit pointless.

    Both the Visitor center and Farmleigh have rear entrances. They don't need to make cars ho into the centre of the park to get to those places but they do. Typical of OPW.

    Same with Mary's hospital. You have to drive around the park to get at it, due to the one way gate. Why they can't build a wider gate to match what's there already I have no idea.

    On a busy day the Zoo car park is too small. There's overflow all around it. So instead of making it bigger they prefer to have people parking on the roads and grass in every direction.


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    #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    eeeee wrote: »
    People must definitely park and ride at the castleknock entrance, and no where did I mention banning cars from the Phoenix park.
    ....

    Almost all the traffic is going to the quays. Block them and people won't use the park to get there.


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    #90
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Went for a cycle there earlier. Heavenly without the cars. Especially noticeable around some of the side roads like the S-bends near the Furry Glen which used to be a slalom course for motorists. Park is busier than I've ever seen it with people activity. Stopped off for a coffee in the Visitor centre. As busy as ever. Only difference is where the car park used to be full of cars, the place is now surrounded by dozens of bicycles. No indication that stopping car access is stopping people from making use of the Park.


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    #91
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    ...As busy as ever. Only difference is where the car park used to be full of cars, the place is now surrounded by dozens of bicycles. No indication that stopping car access is stopping people from making use of the Park...

    Really...?

    No work no sports events, no kids matches, no shopping no DIY. No visiting people, no socialising. People have nothing else to do. All the parks are busier. It's not raining, nice weather.

    Seriously...


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