Recommended construction companies for progression?

CBear1993 · 26-05-2020 11:42am

Tefral wrote: »

45k was the wage i would have had to drop to

That’s not bad although depends what you were on. Could be worth it rather than the **** to deal with in actual industry

not sure I’d enjoy teaching the whole contracts side of things again

Tefral · 26-05-2020 12:01pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

That’s not bad although depends what you were on. Could be worth it rather than the **** to deal with in actual industry not sure I’d enjoy teaching the whole contracts side of things again

I know, i regret not going for it though. i never really factored in the whole summer off thing. I could have opened a small side company and measured a few houses etc to top up the wage.

GMIT are looking for a QS lecturer currently.

Skidfingers · 26-05-2020 3:22pm

Tefral wrote: »

I know, i regret not going for it though. i never really factored in the whole summer off thing. I could have opened a small side company and measured a few houses etc to top up the wage.

GMIT are looking for a QS lecturer currently.

I wonder is it easy to get work like this on the side? Where would you even start?

addaword · 26-05-2020 7:16pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Really? I look out for the odd lecturing job in Dublin here but they’re few and far between! I thought you’d have to take a massive drop in wages?

75 k is quite good I would have thought, especially considering the hours and holidays. That sort of money can go a long way outside of Dublin. Not bad anyway.

screamer · 26-05-2020 11:33pm

If you want progressions as a QS go and get your PQS and go into practise. Construction and progression are a fallacy, the boom bust nature means you are building your career on sand. They work you to the bone and by 40 most QSs have gotten out. Too intense a burn on the brain.

CBear1993 · 27-05-2020 1:19am

Consultancies are a pile of bollocks too though. Lads I know that are in associate director positions you wouldn’t get them as senior PMs or QS in the contracting side. Hard to listen to the consultancy side too, they’re a different breed.

Had a quick look on the jobs websites tonight as hadn’t been on them from 2019, numbers are well down for construction .

Honestly makes me shiver reading the QS ones. Don’t think I’ll ever go for a QS position with any consultancy or contractor ever again

Tefral · 27-05-2020 8:45am

screamer wrote: »

If you want progressions as a QS go and get your PQS and go into practise. Construction and progression are a fallacy, the boom bust nature means you are building your career on sand. They work you to the bone and by 40 most QSs have gotten out. Too intense a burn on the brain.

I have worked in both and your head is melted in both sides.

Consultancy PQS's get paid a good bit less than a CQS, so if your head is gonna be melted anyway, best get paid more.

C3PO · 27-05-2020 12:14pm

Would you not think of training as Project Manager OP? Being a qualified QS is a very good basis!

Pinch Flat · 27-05-2020 12:37pm

I've worked both sides of the industry. Top 5 contractors and the top 5 consultancies. 25 years in the game. I prefer the consultancy side. Wouldn't dream of going back to a contractor for any money - the cut-throat and ruthless nature of that game - endlessly fabricating claims - just doesn't appeal to me. I worked with a top 5 contractor in the dot com bubble burst in 2001 - just moved back from the UK, newly married and a mortgage taken out. Dropped me as quick as anything. Same happened again with a consultancy in 2009 when that went pair shaped. Current employer there's been zero pay cuts or redundancy, which I'm amazed by. I;m expecting a deep recession well into 2021, so have made my plans on that basis. I'll try weather it out as I did from 2009 - 2013 - emigrating not an option for a number of reasons.

The industry has become unbelievable fast paced, particularly multi-nationals - they want stuff yesterday. Zero forgiveness for stuff being done wrong or one of a hundred balls being juggled being dropped. The industry is a race to the bottom here - contractors and consultants are undercutting each other on fees / tenders and clients don't see the value of professional services. Constantly want stuff for free, change their wind and won;t pay for it, delay projects and not want to know - the end date is the end date.

I honestly wouldn't recommend the industry to anybody - it's fairly chaotic - I try to explain this to people working in "normal" industries - you go from boom to bust and back again. Been through four recessions since the mid-90s when I left college. It makes it hard to make really long term plans. I'm hitting 50 now, married with a kid and mortgage, I'd love t change but the option of me starting all over again at the bottom, just doesn't work for me.

CBear1993 · 27-05-2020 1:18pm

C3PO wrote: »

Would you not think of training as Project Manager OP? Being a qualified QS is a very good basis!

No. Project management in construction is just as bad if not worse. Hours are longer and you’re the first or second person the finger is pointed at when **** hits the fan. Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. A lot of stress and hassle

C3PO · 27-05-2020 7:01pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

No. Project management in construction is just as bad if not worse. Hours are longer and you’re the first or second person the finger is pointed at when **** hits the fan. Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. A lot of stress and hassle

I wasn't suggesting construction to be honest - there are project managers required in all sorts of industries!

Andrew00 · 27-05-2020 11:34pm

Is labouring on the sites any good for a while'een?

Skidfingers · 27-05-2020 11:46pm

Would a QS with a subbie be better then a main contractor or consultancy?

Tefral · 28-05-2020 12:25am

Skidfingers wrote: »

Would a QS with a subbie be better then a main contractor or consultancy?

I'm a QS/Contracts Manager with an Electrical Sub-Contractor. My boss is sound so yes it appears that way. Plenty of fighting though as everyone wants to take a chunk out of you, but they don't like it when you fight back, so you have that to deal with.

Revit Man · 28-05-2020 9:56am

C3PO wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting construction to be honest - there are project managers required in all sorts of industries!

On this point.. i'm currently undertaking an MSc in Project Management. 2 years, part time, online course. Approaching the end of the first year, 6 weeks left. I'm not sure I'll get there, or will return for year 2, it's very heavy going.

Anybody who has told me that project management doesn't require college education either isn't a project manager, or thinks they are. By which I mean, while many (most) project managers I know haven't gone any formal route, most would appreciate the benefits of learning the principles and tools behind it prior to working the position.

All sorts of industries require project managers, so true, and in essence it's a process. In it's true sense, you don't need to know the industry to be a project manager once you can implement correct processes and techniques at the correct times, but would I reallllly be able to get work in another sector?

CBear1993 · 28-05-2020 10:12am

Doubt it. I tried getting out of the industry before and it’s next to impossible unless you have a very powerful contact in a firm. A lot of hiring managers outside construction are completely alien to what skills people in it have.

Revit Man · 28-05-2020 10:58am

Yeah, this is my thinking also.

I don't even know what sideways moves I can make. I think I'm stuck bar fully retraining in something else, which is not feasible. I'm mid-30s, have a mortgage to pay and a child to pay for. Can't stop working to retrain, or take a big financial hit to retrain.

Blacktie. · 28-05-2020 11:05am

Revit Man wrote: »

I don't even know what sideways moves I can make. I think I'm stuck bar fully retraining in something else, which is not feasible. I'm mid-30s, have a mortgage to pay and a child to pay for. Can't stop working to retrain, or take a big financial hit to retrain.

Could you retrain part time while working?

Revit Man · 28-05-2020 2:44pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

Could you retrain part time while working?

Already doing a masters part time while working full time. And I swear I'll never go to college again, it's a killer trying to fit it in and do it well.

Fluffy101 · 29-05-2020 8:59am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Doubt it. I tried getting out of the industry before and it’s next to impossible unless you have a very powerful contact in a firm. A lot of hiring managers outside construction are completely alien to what skills people in it have.

What industries have you tried out of interest.

I'm leaving construction now but I have experience in an other industry so still a step up from current position.

If your moving to a new industry, without experience in that you will 99% of the time have to take a lower level position unless lucky or as you say know people.

Skidfingers · 29-05-2020 9:44am

Been thinking the last few days, I'm 24 but I also want to go abroad within the next year or 2 (don't really want to leave it much longer). I'm with a main contractor, currently doing my SCSI chartership and tempted to also do a 1 year certificate in project management online from Sept - May. It would be nice to get my chartership and have a certificate in project management before heading abroad, with Oz seeming the most appealing.

I think if I got possibly 2 years experience there likely with a sub-contractor and I came back in my late 20's my experience could stand out and be easier to move up the ladder?

CBear1993 · 29-05-2020 11:06am

Sorry if it’s not relevant to your thread Skidfingers, just wanted general opinion on this:

Probably a very naive question on my behalf : but why do construction professionals and trades do overtime and not get paid a penny for it generally?

I don’t get why the whole workforce collectively do this. I have friends working with the banks at graduate level and the minute they go past their 9-5:30 or whatever it is they’re paid for it. Or time worked in lieu.

When you go for. Job interview for PM//QS/engineer whatever it is, when you ask the hours they laugh at you. I hate this attitude. And if you have an accounts, HR or marketing department in said construction firm, they all waltz out the door on the button at 5/5:30.

I can’t fathom why lads stay on site and in the head office slaving away like robots and you get absolutely NO THANKS. All this bull**** in the interviews - “if you put in the hours you’ll climb the ladder” f*ck offfff.

Meanwhile other industries preach smart working - inside your daily allotted time.
Although in saying that I have heard of google and Facebook being pretty relentless - software guys an programmers having access to the office and coming in at all hours of the night

mayo londoner · 29-05-2020 3:47pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Sorry if it’s not relevant to your thread Skidfingers, just wanted general opinion on this:

Probably a very naive question on my behalf : but why do construction professionals and trades do overtime and not get paid a penny for it generally?

I don’t get why the whole workforce collectively do this. I have friends working with the banks at graduate level and the minute they go past their 9-5:30 or whatever it is they’re paid for it. Or time worked in lieu.

When you go for. Job interview for PM//QS/engineer whatever it is, when you ask the hours they laugh at you. I hate this attitude. And if you have an accounts, HR or marketing department in said construction firm, they all waltz out the door on the button at 5/5:30.

I can’t fathom why lads stay on site and in the head office slaving away like robots and you get absolutely NO THANKS. All this bull**** in the interviews - “if you put in the hours you’ll climb the ladder” f*ck offfff.

Meanwhile other industries preach smart working - inside your daily allotted time.
Although in saying that I have heard of google and Facebook being pretty relentless - software guys an programmers having access to the office and coming in at all hours of the night

This I can never understand. There's a pain in the hole in my place who goes in at 6.30 every morning and stays till around 6-6.30 every evening, all just to be seen, she's not even that busy, all just to lick Directors holes and she doesn't get any thanks for it, it's baffling. Have often heard of people in my office staying till 10 o clock at night, as if it's a competition for no extra pay or time in lieu.

I'm first one out the door at 5.15 and not a second later. We're never given thanks, no bonus, no pension, no tin of biscuits or even a Happy Xmas, **** that.

Handful of people who travel internationally too, usually leave on a Sat or Sunday and back the following Saturday or Sunday, work 10-12hrs days whilst they are in the country too. So two weekends disrupted, away from family and friends for a week and no time in lieu, not to mention guts of 20hrs travel time each way. They tried to force me to start going to international projects a couple years ago and wasn't long telling them where to go, a complete pisstake.

Fluffy101 · 29-05-2020 4:53pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Sorry if it’s not relevant to your thread Skidfingers, just wanted general opinion on this:

Probably a very naive question on my behalf : but why do construction professionals and trades do overtime and not get paid a penny for it generally?

I don’t get why the whole workforce collectively do this. I have friends working with the banks at graduate level and the minute they go past their 9-5:30 or whatever it is they’re paid for it. Or time worked in lieu.

When you go for. Job interview for PM//QS/engineer whatever it is, when you ask the hours they laugh at you. I hate this attitude. And if you have an accounts, HR or marketing department in said construction firm, they all waltz out the door on the button at 5/5:30.

I can’t fathom why lads stay on site and in the head office slaving away like robots and you get absolutely NO THANKS. All this bull**** in the interviews - “if you put in the hours you’ll climb the ladder” f*ck offfff.

Meanwhile other industries preach smart working - inside your daily allotted time.
Although in saying that I have heard of google and Facebook being pretty relentless - software guys an programmers having access to the office and coming in at all hours of the night

Few lads I know, work with companies like Suir, contracted out and paid by the hour, laughing at the lads on a salary!!

Revit Man · 29-05-2020 5:47pm

Fluffy101 wrote: »

Few lads I know, work with companies like Suir, contracted out and paid by the hour, laughing at the lads on a salary!!

I worked for one of the main engineering consultancies in Ireland contracting. It was great while there was work. I was getting a good hourly rate on a busy project. I did it for 2 years between 2 companies.

This is great I thought! Plus 48% tax relief on pension contributions as director of a limited company. Brilliant!

Then the work dried up as we were winding down on one project and waiting for the next to kick off. 30 hours this week. 25 hours this week. Try ask around for extra hours in house with other disciplines to see if you can get your hours up by doing some draughting for them.

Take a week off. Hope you've planned for 25% cut in your month's pay.
Christmas holidays/company not open over New Years etc. Hope you've allowed for about 50% pay that month as you aren't working or earning or getting paid....

Just saying, it's not necessarily as good as it seems to be at first. I'm sure with more careful planning I could have done better out of it, but it is a stressful position in times of uncertainty.

Whereas now, I'm full time permanent employee in a place, if they want to drop me, they need to pay me redundancy. I get 4 paid weeks a year off, paid bank holidays, christmas time. Sick pay, there's another one I forgot about.

Fluffy101 · 29-05-2020 10:33pm

Revit Man wrote: »

I worked for one of the main engineering consultancies in Ireland contracting. It was great while there was work. I was getting a good hourly rate on a busy project. I did it for 2 years between 2 companies.

This is great I thought! Plus 48% tax relief on pension contributions as director of a limited company. Brilliant!

Then the work dried up as we were winding down on one project and waiting for the next to kick off. 30 hours this week. 25 hours this week. Try ask around for extra hours in house with other disciplines to see if you can get your hours up by doing some draughting for them.

Take a week off. Hope you've planned for 25% cut in your month's pay.
Christmas holidays/company not open over New Years etc. Hope you've allowed for about 50% pay that month as you aren't working or earning or getting paid....

Just saying, it's not necessarily as good as it seems to be at first. I'm sure with more careful planning I could have done better out of it, but it is a stressful position in times of uncertainty.

Whereas now, I'm full time permanent employee in a place, if they want to drop me, they need to pay me redundancy. I get 4 paid weeks a year off, paid bank holidays, christmas time. Sick pay, there's another one I forgot about.

Agree with all that tbh. I did contracting before but not in construction, but yeah always looking for next job.

I found overall it definitely pays a lot better overall, minus some security

CBear1993 · 30-05-2020 7:11am

Fluffy101 wrote: »

Few lads I know, work with companies like Suir, contracted out and paid by the hour, laughing at the lads on a salary!!

What’s their role? Get me in touch with suir! Ha.

To be fair Australia was great like that - a lot of the roles you could get contracted in through a recruiter and paid all of your hours.

I have absolutely zero time or respect for recruiters in our country, sorry but 95% of them are all the same

Girly Gal · 30-05-2020 9:24am

Fluffy101 wrote: »

Few lads I know, work with companies like Suir, contracted out and paid by the hour, laughing at the lads on a salary!!

Back 6 to 7 years ago worked for a "reputable" company, where we were on **** salary(recession so they could pay what they liked), working long hours -it was a running joke at the time that we were all essentially doing Fridays for no pay - while the trades lads on site were raking it in, getting overtime pay and travel expenses with very little stress, while we were under huge pressure and probably on half the money. You tell yourself you'll benefit in the long term, but, reality is unless you have a pull higher up the ladder or are a lick ass you get no where, plus moving from project to project all over country with no guarantee you'll have work after project completed.
Luckily got out of construction few years back, work for MNC now and definitely wouldn't go back to construction.

Fluffy101 · 30-05-2020 9:28am

Girly Gal wrote: »

Back 6 to 7 years ago worked for a "reputable" company, where we were on **** salary(recession so they could pay what they liked), working long hours -it was a running joke at the time that we were all essentially doing Fridays for no pay - while the trades lads on site were raking it in, getting overtime pay and travel expenses with very little stress, while we were under huge pressure and probably on half the money. You tell yourself you'll benefit in the long term, but, reality is unless you have a pull higher up the ladder or are a lick ass you get no where, plus moving from project to project all over country with no guarantee you'll have work after project completed.
Luckily got out of construction few years back, work for MNC now and definitely wouldn't go back to construction.

Exactly this 100%

Fluffy101 · 30-05-2020 9:51am

CBear1993 wrote: »

What’s their role? Get me in touch with suir! Ha.

To be fair Australia was great like that - a lot of the roles you could get contracted in through a recruiter and paid all of your hours.

I have absolutely zero time or respect for recruiters in our country, sorry but 95% of them are all the same

Mech & Elec engineers, and trades. I don't know much about the QS side of things.

Giving the nature of construction work, the pay system is ridiculous especially when you see all the money wasted during a project

Recommended construction companies for progression?

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