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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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  • 03-05-2020 1:37am
    #1
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭


    I'd be tempted to buy a little apartment in the Canaries and spend my winters there, in fact I'd probably

    1/ Sell my Dublin gaff

    2/ By a cheaper Irish gaff in the countryside

    3/ Buy a place in the Canaries

    4/ Buy another place somewhere in Europe, Hvar or somewhere like that

    And just spend weeks and months in each place.

    How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?


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    #2
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    I'd be tempted to guy a little apartment in the Canaries and spend my winters there, in fact I'd probably

    1/ Sell my Dublin gaff

    2/ By a cheaper Irish gaff in the countryside

    3/ Buy a place in the Canaries

    4/ Buy another place somewhere in Europe, Hvar or somewhere like that

    And just spend weeks and months in each place.

    How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?

    The nature of my own job in normal times means I need to be on-site at least twice a week generally, so moving away from the office won't be an option.

    I'm fully expecting WFH to take off big time in our workplace one we return fully. The biggest change will be the reduction in childcare costs.


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    #3
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The nature of my own job in normal times means I need to be on-site at least twice a week generally, so moving away from the office won't be an option.

    I'm fully expecting WFH to take off big time in our workplace one we return fully. The biggest change will be the reduction in childcare costs.

    That's a good point. I'm not a parent but I guess people would rather have kids in the background than pay out a grand a month


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    #4
    rn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭rn


    I think so, by the time this is over the culture of the office is going to be utterly changed.

    People are collocated to establish team working, so if you've stable teams that have been together for 1+ years with a track record of delivering then there's no need to have them on site.

    There's tax implications for being ordinarily resident in a different country to the country of employment. So "living" in Europe might not be an option. Anyone thinking of doing this, needs to get actual tax accountant advice.

    Irish regional towns and villages could do well out of this. There's no need to commute into Dublin to do jobs where the office is located in Dublin. There's literally tons of supply in housing available in the leinster counties, especially if a vacant site tax and other incentives were there to put derelict and vacant buildings back into use.


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    #5
    DopeTech
    Registered Users Posts: 6,761 ✭✭✭DopeTech


    My job would require me on site most days on the off chance that there would be problems but I can see myself taking a day every week or two.

    WFH was already a thing in our office but I think far more will begin to avail of it.


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    #6
    snoopboggybog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭snoopboggybog


    Work in IT and still need to be available in case a piece of equipment goes belly up. This might happen once every six months or multiple times a month.

    I'd probably move to Poland if I could and let someone else deal with physical hardware issues.

    Portugal either. In the US at the minute and in all honesty i could have moving back to Ireland for the last eight weeks and my employer would never know, but if there was a physical issue I'd be screwed.


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    #7
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭JTMan


    I think very few people, post crisis, will go 100% remote.

    I think most companies will require 1 day a week or in some cases 1 day a month in the office.

    Heard of a company are planning "team days" (post crisis) where each team picks a day of the week that their team come in. Staff work 4 days a week at home except managers who work 3 days a week at home because they need to attend their own team days and their management team days too.


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    #8
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,741 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    The nature of my own job in normal times means I need to be on-site at least twice a week generally, so moving away from the office won't be an option.

    I'm fully expecting WFH to take off big time in our workplace one we return fully. The biggest change will be the reduction in childcare costs.

    How does wfh reduce childcare costs ?


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    #9
    snoopboggybog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭snoopboggybog


    I'm way more productive from home. I have my laptop hooked up to a 65 inch TV while i'm relaxing in a recliner working away. Its heaven!

    I'm a bit weird as well i have a 48 inch tv on the wall over my main TV as well. Set it up for premier league and that's mainly youtube all day or Netflix at the minute.

    I do go to my desk for meetings though.


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    #10
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Cyrus wrote: »
    How does wfh reduce childcare costs ?

    Well let's say your normal working day is 9-5 but that you spend 2.5hrs commuting. Crèche/child minding/pre/after-school minding is just up the road from your house. That 2.5hrs child care cost is now pretty much gone and not needed. This childcare cost is reduced.


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    #11
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,741 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Well let's say your normal working day is 9-5 but that you spend 2.5hrs commuting. Crèche/child minding/pre/after-school minding is just up the road from your house. That 2.5hrs child care cost is now pretty much gone and not needed. This childcare cost is reduced.

    Crèches charge by the month not by the hour and it makes sense as well as staff ratios need to be maintained


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    #12
    Ultimanemo
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    In many places in Ireland you can't work from home because the Internet is not fast enough.


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    #13
    snoopboggybog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭snoopboggybog


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    In many places in Ireland you can't work from home because the Internet is not fast enough.

    True but some of the rural providers with the antenna broadband are getting better, its expensive though.


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    #14
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,492 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If be wary about buying a second home abroad in general at the moment, remains to be seen what happens the future of the airline business from both economic and environmental pressures.


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    #15
    Ultimanemo
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    If be wary about buying a second home abroad in general at the moment, remains to be seen what happens the future of the airline business from both economic and environmental pressures.
    Don't worry about that, the greens will find a solution: build a bridge between Ireland and France wide enough for two cycle lanes and two pedestrian paths.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MrMusician18 wrote: »

    The biggest change will be the reduction in childcare costs.

    Would I be correct in saying childcare centres seem to want people who can commit to 5 days a week, not 2 or 3- you might be over-looked for parents willing to place their child full-time in the creche not part-time. They certainly should change their business model but it remains to be seen.

    Also, more people working from home means fewer child-care centres required- and especially if unemployment rates remain high over the next 2 years. You may be asked to pay for 5 days, even though you're only using 3, or else lose your place?


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    #17
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Crèches charge by the month not by the hour and it makes sense as well as staff ratios need to be maintained

    And you think that will not change, if customer demand changes....

    They used to charge by the month here in Switzerland too when I came here 30 years ago, but not they are only too willing to charge by the hour because the market has changed.

    You don't need the service for say 7:00am to 6:00 - 7:00 pm, if your day only starts and 9 and finishes at 5... you don't need a full time service, if you both work from home, you don't need a full time service if you your neighbours work from home and you share child minding....

    And what is very common here now is what they call "the day mother" - the neighbouring housewife who watches you kids for may be 5 hours a day as a "private arrangement" => no tax.

    If a large portion of the population's work habits change, then a lot of other things will change as well.


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    #18
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Cyrus wrote: »
    How does wfh reduce childcare costs ?
    Most people with kids 3+ could wfh.
    Eg start at 8-820 and check emails/daily schedule, older kids do most of the dressing themselves so 15-20 mins to get them out do school + playschool drops 0845-0910 work till 1250, collect from playschool and give them lunch.20 mins checking mails, small tasks etcc. Back to pick up second child at 2 give them lunch already prepared and work 45 mins and repeat at 2:50-310 for third child before working for the evening getting the dinner on at 510 for five minutes and then working till 6ish . That's 7:30-800 hours of work every day.
    Commute time now zero , reducing stress of traffic etc. Starting work earlier , finished later so workflow managed for ten hours instead of 8.
    No childminders fees saving 3-12000 per annum.

    And that's a difficult situation. As kids get older they can all be collected at same time, become more able to feed themselves, get ready for school.
    By working from home , more often than not there are grand parents nearby who in most cases enjoy thw routine of collecting grand kids . They could do the middle of the day collection s give the lunches either which frees up another hour .

    Say a couple are both in the same boat both could attend the office one or two days per week if thats a requirement.
    Could live in Dingle , drive up Monday morning leave 430 check in to hotel in maynooth , train in to city , work late , back to hotel that evening , back in Tuesday and train back out by 6 home by 10pm but then you re finishing work +home. Earlier the rest of the week .

    It's gas looking at all the public bodies which when forced to have managed to get working from home up and running within weeks, let alone private companies.
    I am not optimistic, but I think it is a great opportunity to "save" rural Ireland and reduce housing costs in Dublin among hundreds of other positives


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    #19
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    After 20 + years of terrible traffic in many parts of Ireland it should ease quite a lot. I’d expect people to socialise a bit more, they’ll have time and meeting other people will be seen as more important if you don’t meet anyone during working hours.


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    #20
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    I wfh 50/50. I pick up my kids early some of the days. Having them in the background is not an option, you can't work properly with them popping in looking for something or they start fighting with each other and you have to go out to sorry it out.

    Lots of advantages to wfh. I get to see more of my kids, can go to the gym during the day, cook my own food, no distractions, etc.

    Not sure about working from anywhere though. I work in Germany and we have lots of remote colleagues in different countries. But only in countries where we have a registered office for tax purposes. What I have done is work for a few weeks in different countries, but I was always resident in Germany.


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    #21
    huskerdu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭huskerdu


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Most people with kids 3+ could wfh.
    Eg start at 8-820 and check emails/daily schedule, older kids do most of the dressing themselves so 15-20 mins to get them out do school + playschool drops 0845-0910 work till 1250, collect from playschool and give them lunch.20 mins checking mails, small tasks etcc. Back to pick up second child at 2 give them lunch already prepared and work 45 mins and repeat at 2:50-310 for third child before working for the evening getting the dinner on at 510 for five minutes and then working till 6ish . That's 7:30-800 hours of work every day.
    Commute time now zero , reducing stress of traffic etc. Starting work earlier , finished later so workflow managed for ten hours instead of 8.
    No childminders fees saving 3-12000 per annum.

    And that's a difficult situation. As kids get older they can all be collected at same time, become more able to feed themselves, get ready for school.
    By working from home , more often than not there are grand parents nearby who in most cases enjoy thw routine of collecting grand kids . They could do the middle of the day collection s give the lunches either which frees up another hour .

    This is a fantasy written by someone who does not juggle 3 kids and a job.

    So so many things can go wrong every day so this neat plan will fall apart .

    A lot of people I know who are wfh with kids at the moment constantly juggling things , working later to make up the work that didn’t get done when the kids needed attention.

    And no , saying it’s all grand because people have free childcare on tap from grandparents is also a sweeping generalisation which is not true for most people .

    Definitely, this has proved that wfh is viable for a lot of people , but not full time with no childcare .


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    #22
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,741 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    huskerdu wrote: »
    This is a fantasy written by someone who does not juggle 3 kids and a job.

    So so many things can go wrong every day so this neat plan will fall apart .

    A lot of people I know who are wfh with kids at the moment constantly juggling things , working later to make up the work that didn’t get done when the kids needed attention.

    And no , saying it’s all grand because people have free childcare on tap from grandparents is also a sweeping generalisation which is not true for most people .

    Definitely, this has proved that wfh is viable for a lot of people , but not full time with no childcare .

    Exactly I’ve seen some rubbish posted on boards but that must be the most nonsensical post I have ever had the misfortune to read


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    #23
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,741 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    And you think that will not change, if customer demand changes....

    They used to charge by the month here in Switzerland too when I came here 30 years ago, but not they are only too willing to charge by the hour because the market has changed.

    You don't need the service for say 7:00am to 6:00 - 7:00 pm, if your day only starts and 9 and finishes at 5... you don't need a full time service, if you both work from home, you don't need a full time service if you your neighbours work from home and you share child minding....

    And what is very common here now is what they call "the day mother" - the neighbouring housewife who watches you kids for may be 5 hours a day as a "private arrangement" => no tax.

    If a large portion of the population's work habits change, then a lot of other things will change as well.

    So you are advocating the black market to resolve child care ? For 5 hours ? What happened the half of the year they are off school ?


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    #24
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Say a couple are both in the same boat both could attend the office one or two days per week if thats a requirement.
    Could live in Dingle , drive up Monday morning leave 430 check in to hotel in maynooth , train in to city , work late , back to hotel that evening , back in Tuesday and train back out by 6 home by 10pm but then you re finishing work +home.
    It's gas looking at all the public bodies which when forced to have managed to get working from home up and running within weeks, let alone private companies.
    I am not optimistic, but I think it is a great opportunity to "save" rural Ireland and reduce housing costs in Dublin among hundreds of other positives

    I have no faith in wfh "saving rural Ireland" there very few scenic small towns like Dingle. For every Kenmare and Bantry there are 10 Tipp Towns and Fermoys. People don't want to live in small town Ireland and if a wfh gets people out of Dublin, Cork and Galway it will mostly be to one off houses in the middle of nowhere. Two trips a week to the local Aldi 10 miles away won't save rural Ireland. It will encourage people to retreat into the own families and isolate from community.


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    #25
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,488 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Cyrus wrote: »
    So you are advocating the black market to resolve child care ? For 5 hours ? What happened the half of the year they are off school ?

    It's not black market. It is fully legal, and even encouraged;

    http://www.childcareonline.ie/index.php/childminders/childminder-supports/childminders-tax-relief-scheme


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    #26
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    huskerdu wrote: »
    This is a fantasy written by someone who does not juggle 3 kids and a job.

    So so many things can go wrong every day so this neat plan will fall apart .

    A lot of people I know who are wfh with kids at the moment constantly juggling things , working later to make up the work that didn’t get done when the kids needed attention.

    And no , saying it’s all grand because people have free childcare on tap from grandparents is also a sweeping generalisation which is not true for most people .

    Definitely, this has proved that wfh is viable for a lot of people , but not full time with no childcare .

    That's not a "neat little plan" it is quite the juggling act if you d bothered to read it. And I haven't said it could be done full time with no child care.
    And no where have I generalised and said there is free child care on tap from grand parents.

    Of course it wouldn't work for everyone.

    The question was how would wfh reduce child care costs and I outlined a particularly difficult situation to start with. Parents with three kids in 2nd class upwards would find it far easier as they will have them in school 5 1/2 hours .

    You re the one who took my EXAMPLES as a result for everyone.
    Nurses teachers gardai retail staff, plumbers, electricians, lab technicians, painters, cannot work from home in a practical way.. I didn't state that originally as I assumed most people could understand what an example was.
    You obviously don't .
    It's not fantasy at all.

    For a lot of people it won't be easy and will require juggling and people are making those sacrifices as it is saving them money and hassle of getting childcare .

    Most of the situation s I'm aware of its one of the couple who work from home.

    People make all sorts of sacrifices, garda couples who barely see each other because they work opposite shifts to all them to care for their children- try doing something like that when your on a 24 hour roster shift work .

    Then juggling a 9-5 job with childcare becomes a doddle


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    #27
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    And you think that will not change, if customer demand changes....

    They used to charge by the month here in Switzerland too when I came here 30 years ago, but not they are only too willing to charge by the hour because the market has changed.

    You don't need the service for say 7:00am to 6:00 - 7:00 pm, if your day only starts and 9 and finishes at 5... you don't need a full time service, if you both work from home, you don't need a full time service if you your neighbours work from home and you share child minding....

    And what is very common here now is what they call "the day mother" - the neighbouring housewife who watches you kids for may be 5 hours a day as a "private arrangement" => no tax.

    If a large portion of the population's work habits change, then a lot of other things will change as well.

    Sounds like it became unviable as a business. So lots of people stopped doing it. So more casual arrangement became the norm. Childcare is very poorly paid in general. Hence the tax free status for childminders. I expect if they lose a lot of hours due to WFH a lot will simply stop doing it.


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    #28
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    That's not a "neat little plan" it is quite the juggling act if you d bothered to read it. And I haven't said it could be done full time with no child care.
    And no where have I generalised and said there is free child care on tap from grand parents.

    Of course it wouldn't work for everyone.

    The question was how would wfh reduce child care costs and I outlined a particularly difficult situation to start with. Parents with three kids in 2nd class upwards would find it far easier as they will have them in school 5 1/2 hours .

    You re the one who took my EXAMPLES as a result for everyone.
    Nurses teachers gardai retail staff, plumbers, electricians, lab technicians, painters, cannot work from home in a practical way.. I didn't state that originally as I assumed most people could understand what an example was.
    You obviously don't .
    It's not fantasy at all.

    For a lot of people it won't be easy and will require juggling and people are making those sacrifices as it is saving them money and hassle of getting childcare .

    I think the point they are making is your example is very idealised and is mostly impractical in the real world. Not that it can't be done. But if you have a very tight cram packed schedule, it rarely goes to plan.


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    #29
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I work in a multinational who have advocated working from home for well over 15 years.
    We used to have one developer ringing into our conference calls from his beachfront house in Hawaii, used to drive us all nuts as back then Ireland didn’t really have the internet capability back then.
    By 2007 I was well able to do it but nowhere as grand :)


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    #30
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I have no faith in wfh "saving rural Ireland" there very few scenic small towns like Dingle. For every Kenmare and Bantry there are 10 Tipp Towns and Fermoys. People don't want to live in small town Ireland and if a wfh gets people out of Dublin, Cork and Galway it will mostly be to one off houses in the middle of nowhere. Two trips a week to the local Aldi 10 miles away won't save rural Ireland. It will encourage people to retreat into the own families and isolate from community.

    People aren't making a decision to go to Dingle over tipp town. People are choosing to relocate out of Dublin to the town's they grew up in or close by. They don't isolate from their community .they become more involved .
    They don't typically make two Aldi trips a week.

    If might surprise you but a large proportion of people who grew up in portumna would like to live in Portumna as adults. Likewise with inis oirr , with kanturk, with kilbeggan. A combination of who they marry or where they work has an impact and if you're a nurse from nenagh in at Vincent's married to a Garda from manor Hamilton based in store street you re not going to live in portlaoise. But once you've had children your forced to consider your options and the benefits of choosing (in this example) north tipp or north Leitrim to move to.
    I'm not optimistic of any forward thinking on the part of the government/public service to de centralise but it is something that would be embraced e


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    #31
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    beauf wrote: »
    I think the point they are making is your example is very idealised and is mostly impractical in the real world. Not that it can't be done. But if you have a very tight cram packed schedule, it rarely goes to plan.

    And I m saying that example is not in any way ideal. 20 minutes work then 35 minutes getting kids out of work maybe grabbing a cup of tea yourself and a slice of toast because you have. To be ready for a morning meeting at 930 and only getting back to the house before that. Then work like a demon as you have to get our by 1245 as any later than that and there are delays at the playschool . Back to desk at 115 having driven nine minutes each way and having to prep lunch.then 30 minutes intensive work again as you have another meeting at 330 and you've to spend another 40 minutes collecting and prepping lunch before then..
    Not until after that meeting that you can begin the wind down as you know that that any interruption s after that won't interfere with your work as you can always work late. The next batch of tasks font really have to be ready before midnight when the team in another time zone starts their day. But you do like to try and maintain some normality so try to get all done by 6pm so you can have some family time before bed time. Hardly ideal is it

    Trust me that's a hell of a lot more hectic than driving 40minutes to your office for 830working till 5 and coming home leaving it all in the office.


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