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The Strike is over. What happens now?

1356721

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    They don't seem to be bombarded with cattle in the 2 factorys i normally deal with in Co. Cork. It all seems very realaxed. A "shur, we can send them in next week or the week after, what ever ya want yerself" attitude

    There you are now, cattle running out because of the high kills all year as I said it would. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Water John wrote: »
    Workers are from Brazil and East Timor. Tied by work visa to the employer, stays in accommodation owned/sourced by the employer and a lot of their wages pulled back that way. Just above indentured slavery.

    There s a lot of it about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I think the vast majority of those work visas are in the meat industry. Minimum wage and zero hours contracts are another layer, just above that, mostly in retail and service industries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Water John wrote: »
    Workers are from Brazil and East Timor. Tied by work visa to the employer, stays in accommodation owned/sourced by the employer and a lot of their wages pulled back that way. Just above indentured slavery.

    Wonder how many c/kg it would cost to pay them well


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    It's extra profit to the factory owners. We're all being skinned. They would love the fight between us, whilst they laugh all the way to the bank.
    Not falling for that one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Water John wrote: »
    It's extra profit to the factory owners. We're all being skinned. They would love the fight between us, whilst they laugh all the way to the bank.
    Not falling for that one.

    Local independent factory here advertised for workers, same salary,
    ICM pay per lamb, so slowing down the line for dirty lambs cost the workers money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I wonder when lads get a sickening out of all this, will it knock a bit of the addiction off them?

    Or will they be out buying and paying over the odds for stores in a few weeks time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭Robson99


    I am not sure if that will pay you unless they are not FS2+/3. If there FS is ok I be moving them on. Hosing and feeding will drive costs to 3 euro/day

    They big Contenintal heifers.will take the feeding and conversion rate will be good. They agey cattle as well so have their growing done. Have been getting a couple of kgs outside for the last few weeks as well. Price cannot get any worse over next 6 weeks anyways


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Robson99 wrote: »
    They big Contenintal heifers.will take the feeding and conversion rate will be good. They agey cattle as well so have their growing done. Have been getting a couple of kgs outside for the last few weeks as well. Price cannot get any worse over next 6 weeks anyways

    Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

    Ya it will but hoping they will do a bit better that 1kg / day for first 4 - 6 weeks. That would polish them off. Like to have them 700kg+ at killing if at all possible


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    It is immaterial Bass what you are talking about. "Shoulda woulda coulda". If the grass isn't there, it isn't there and if the year is moving on and ground conditions are getting worse, then one must be pro active and weigh up the options.

    Procurement managers won't be the nicest people to be dealing with for the next few weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

    Sure that'll come out of the contingency margin that's built in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Muckit wrote: »
    It is immaterial Bass what you are talking about. "Shoulda woulda coulda". If the grass isn't there, it isn't there and if the year is moving on and ground conditions are getting worse, then one must be pro active and weigh up the options.

    Procurement managers won't be the nicest people to be dealing with for the next few weeks.

    I agree I have two 700+kg continental bullocks over 36 months U+ grade at a guess. They are on 3kgs for 12+ weeks and are only FS2= at a guess. If I house and feed they will need 15kgs for 60+ days and silage to get FS on them that will cost over 4 euro/day. For to make it worth my while I need them to gain 1.5+kgs of DW/Day. I just take the present profit on them.

    No point in feeding cattle where the profit gain is minimal. This could cause a silage issue next spring. Take the profit/loss and move on. No point in giving cheap beef to Larry.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭I says


    Waiting to get rid of the heaviest cattle here started strip grazing at the weekend whatever they put on now will make up QA gone


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭Robson99


    I agree I have two 700+kg continental bullocks over 36 months U+ grade at a guess. They are on 3kgs for 12+ weeks and are only FS2= at a guess. If I house and feed they will need 15kgs for 60+ days and silage to get FS on them that will cost over 4 euro/day. For to make it worth my while I need them to gain 1.5+kgs of DW/Day. I just take the present profit on them.

    No point in feeding cattle where the profit gain is minimal. This could cause a silage issue next spring. Take the profit/loss and move on. No point in giving cheap beef to Larry.
    Bass
    If it was me i would up them to 10kgs for 4 weeks.. cost €70 on meal...you would be surprised how well them contenintal will do especially U grades


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Muckit wrote: »
    I wonder when lads get a sickening out of all this, will it knock a bit of the addiction off them?

    Or will they be out buying and paying over the odds for stores in a few weeks time?

    Plenty lads around here can't do anything else. They can't go milking cows, won't get into sheep, and don't have enough ground to make tillage worthwhile. They might plant a few wet acres with forestry, but no more than that.

    We might all say they should change systems, sell up, get out, etc., but I know fellas who will stay going til they collapse of a heart-attack or until the bank eventually stops their credit and moves in to sell the place. I'm not sure what can be done to help change hearts and minds, but pure economics won't stop them.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Robson99 wrote: »
    Bass
    If it was me i would up them to 10kgs for 4 weeks.. cost €70 on meal...you would be surprised how well them contenintal will do especially U grades

    They will want to come up a grades on the FS that is 6c/kg and increase DW by 20kgs to leave an extra 50 euro.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    the elephant in the room is there are a huge amount of purely hobby farmers out there rooting at suckler cows but more so they have store to beef , they have a building job or something paying well and intead of going off playing golf in evenings and weekends they like to play around at farming. these lads don't mind what they earn at it unless they really begin to lose big. you can be sure these boys probably wouldn't bother going near a protest march or anything like that. they just like to tip away in evenings for two hours and talk about it in the pub. they will keep hauling cattle in to factories. they wont go into sheep because they know the hardship if your not set up right and probably don't look on sheep with any great value probably more disdain, kind of the old idea of being "poor farmers stock" in their heads big white charrolais = "big farmers stock". this is as simple as it is for most at that game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I knew somone that put a nice simmental weanling heifer up for sale on Donedeal recently. Had 3 calls in the first half hour. First fella that came, bought her. There is a lot more at play here than running a business. Lads like being out and about. Sitting inside looking at the TV just doesnt appeal to them.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    I would kind of fall into the class of farmer you are talking about, I have a full time job, keep 20 sucker cows and feed 30 bucket fed calves (AAx & Hex for the bonus) and then buy a few stores. But every animal is bought / reared for a target market and I can assure you I wouldn't be at it if I wasn't making money. Not as much this year as other years but I have made more profit this year 2019 than last year 2018. I have nearly all my cattle sold every year by the end of July to get the best prices. All I have left to go now is a few cull cows and a few that took a wee while to put on flesh and 2 yokes that were bought for small money last Christmas but they will cover themselves. Some big full time farmers are of the opinion that part time lads selling 50 - 60 cattle a year a only messing I can assure you that is not the case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Both of ye are right in what ye say lads


  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Keep Sluicing


    wrangler wrote: »
    There you are now, cattle running out because of the high kills all year as I said it would. :D


    "They did that before too, but it didn't go on for long.
    They're being bombarded with cattle at the moment." - quote also from you Wrangler.

    Its easy to be right half the time when you talk out of 2 holes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Robson99 wrote: »
    Both of ye are right in what ye say lads

    This is true.

    Add in there is truth in many lads doing Sucklers when they would be better off with dairy bred animals, not all but many.

    Many of all types better off cutting a few than increasing inputs.

    While we are a globally important player in beef exports, no. 6, we only have a half percent of the world's cattle. That said the difference is our half percent is traded internationally.

    Whether Tadgh pays 50 over the odds at the Mart for his bullocks because he was tired after the day is immaterial I think to price in the factory. Th

    If anything the part time lad doing that has helped the Suckler man.

    What was right years ago in farming isn't always right now.

    What is good farming at 4.10 might be as wrong as hell at 3.50.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    "They did that before too, but it didn't go on for long.
    They're being bombarded with cattle at the moment." - quote also from you Wrangler.

    Its easy to be right half the time when you talk out of 2 holes

    When I said the high kills couldn't go on I didn't allow for farmers at the factory gates destroying farmers incomes for two months and backing up cattle.
    And yes, cattle are backed up at the moment because of that.
    And after all that a poor deal........ like wtf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    wrangler wrote: »
    When I said the high kills couldn't go on I didn't allow for farmers at the factory gates destroying farmers incomes for two months and backing up cattle.
    And yes, cattle are backed up at the moment because of that.
    And after all that a poor deal........ like wtf

    I think cattle prices would be higher today (maybe) if it were not for the strikes, but I still think there were worthwhile even if to show farmers are not compplete muppets and wont keep taking forever!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Anto_Meath wrote: »
    I would kind of fall into the class of farmer you are talking about, I have a full time job, keep 20 sucker cows and feed 30 bucket fed calves (AAx & Hex for the bonus) and then buy a few stores. But every animal is bought / reared for a target market and I can assure you I wouldn't be at it if I wasn't making money. Not as much this year as other years but I have made more profit this year 2019 than last year 2018. I have nearly all my cattle sold every year by the end of July to get the best prices. All I have left to go now is a few cull cows and a few that took a wee while to put on flesh and 2 yokes that were bought for small money last Christmas but they will cover themselves. Some big full time farmers are of the opinion that part time lads selling 50 - 60 cattle a year a only messing I can assure you that is not the case.

    It's a persons choice, older people happy enough to just have the cattle, doesn't matter if they don't pay.
    Most will be looking to make money though, these average incomes spouted on the telly are unreal, average incomes might be 10 - 15000 but the average time spent getting that income might be only 15hrs/wk.
    In england now, if you had 500 ewes you'd have another job.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    I knew somone that put a nice simmental weanling heifer up for sale on Donedeal recently. Had 3 calls in the first half hour. First fella that came, bought her. There is a lot more at play here than running a business. Lads like being out and about. Sitting inside looking at the TV just doesnt appeal to them.

    I think that was half the appeal of the protest too - once lads got into it, going down to the gates and chatting with other farmers was a bit of a social outing.

    Might be easier than factories think to get the gates blocked again, especially when the only major job to be done in the yard for the next few months is feeding in the mornings

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Muckit wrote: »
    I wonder when lads get a sickening out of all this, will it knock a bit of the addiction off them?

    Or will they be out buying and paying over the odds for stores in a few weeks time?
    The latter I'd say, same sh*t different day, although I hope not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭einn32


    I knew somone that put a nice simmental weanling heifer up for sale on Donedeal recently. Had 3 calls in the first half hour. First fella that came, bought her. There is a lot more at play here than running a business. Lads like being out and about. Sitting inside looking at the TV just doesnt appeal to them.

    I remember years ago withdrawing a good BB heifer from the mart and bringing her home. The fella came back to our house a week later and bought her for the price we wanted. He said he just had to have her and that he should have just bought her at the mart. He had a decent job and loves having cattle. Happy out driving home!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    lalababa wrote: »
    The latter I'd say, same sh*t different day, although I hope not.

    They never stopped paying over the odds


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,291 ✭✭✭tanko


    MIKEKC wrote: »
    They never stopped paying over the odds

    Anyone who thinks that stores are sold "over the odds" in October any year should buy a batch of cows, rear their own stores, sell them and they won't be long getting their eyes opened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Wrong, that's what happened with the first protest and it was death of a thousand paper cuts. Second time around a few days later and lock all the fridges into the factory and they are on their knees in a few days. If I was to go again I wouldn't bother stopping cattle agin just fridges. Factory would be blocked up with beef and nowhere to go with it after a day or so.


    Not a good idea.
    By clearing the meat, demand would be higher when the factories re opened - opening the way for a price rise (of sorts!).


    Plus blocking in the fridges only would surely generate injunctions.


    Saying this as I fervently hope never to see a strike/blockade again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭kk.man


    I saw somewhere that the Welsh Farmers are unhappy with the beef price and are in or heading for holyhead to block the Irish beef inmports.
    Not a great time to be an Irish Beef Baron!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    kk.man wrote: »
    I saw somewhere that the Welsh Farmers are unhappy with the beef price and are in or heading for holyhead to block the Irish beef inmports.
    Not a great time to be an Irish Beef Baron!
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111334649&postcount=67


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    I knew somone that put a nice simmental weanling heifer up for sale on Donedeal recently. Had 3 calls in the first half hour. First fella that came, bought her. There is a lot more at play here than running a business. Lads like being out and about. Sitting inside looking at the TV just doesnt appeal to them.

    Steady interest in rare/native breed cattle too based on my recent experience of trying to secure a few Irish Moiled for the place


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    tanko wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks that stores are sold "over the odds" in October any year should buy a batch of cows, rear their own stores, sell them and they won't be long getting their eyes opened.

    I am well aware that the seller needs the price he is getting, but the buyer must look after his own side of the business. 430kg fresians last week e775. Can't see this price being justified coming into winter


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭gerryirl


    "They did that before too, but it didn't go on for long.
    They're being bombarded with cattle at the moment." - quote also from you Wrangler.

    Its easy to be right half the time when you talk out of 2 holes


    Ah poor warngler... hes not always right but he's never wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Track9


    Who has the Power or leverage to Engage with that Big Elkephant in the Room .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Track9 wrote: »
    Who has the Power or leverage to Engage with that Big Elkephant in the Room .

    It not nice to speak about wrangler that way

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    gerryirl wrote: »
    Ah poor warngler... hes not always right but he's never wrong
    It not nice to speak about wrangler that way

    Mod:Move on.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    greysides wrote: »
    gerryirl wrote: »
    Ah poor warngler... hes not always right but he's never wrong
    It not nice to speak about wrangler that way

    Mod:Move on.

    Sorry I could not resist it although I squeezed hard,I did try
    So Sorry.........😪

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Sorry I could not resist it although I squeezed hard,I did try
    So Sorry.........��

    I really must be mixing with the wrong crowd, names being broadcast about those who stood the gates in Kilbeggan while they were killing in moyvalley and a cleaners car getting a windscreen smashed on the way out of kilbeggan as well.
    She must've had cattle in the boot....... lovely crowd and all for nothing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭DBK1


    wrangler wrote: »
    I really must be mixing with the wrong crowd, names being broadcast about those who stood the gates in Kilbeggan while they were killing in moyvalley and a cleaners car getting a windscreen smashed on the way out of kilbeggan as well.
    She must've had cattle in the boot....... lovely crowd and all for nothing

    Sorry Wrangler but I can tell you that you are 100% wrong again. I was at the protest in Kilbeggan every day and there was no windscreen smashed on any car. There were no workers prevented or even delayed from entering or leaving the premises. The people on the picket stepped aside every time there was a workers car present and let them in and out without delay. Due to your severe inferiority complex, probably due to the fact you’ve spent your life in the fairytale world of IFA where money for yourselves is all that’s important, you seem to like shooting down anything that you personally are not involved in. It’s time for you to realise that the majority of farmers are disgusted at the actions of the IFA over the last 20 years or so and you making up lies on this forum does nothing to help that. I’ve already called you out once on your fairytales about the Kilbeggan protest and this is another one. You’ve stated before that you are from that area, if the protest concerned you so much why didn’t you call down to meet us and see for yourself what was happening? There is no need for making up stories. You will blabber on now about the IFA getting a €100 million fund for the farmers, there are 120,000 beef farmers in Ireland so that’s €833 each and you need to reduce your farm output by 5% to get it. It is only an IFA man that is used to getting money for nothing that could view this as a major benefit. Don’t get me wrong, all extra money is gratefully accepted into any farm enterprise but €833 is not going to be life changing to anyone’s farm and it’ll be spent the following year trying to build up your numbers again after dropping them to get it.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Reading a book called “Alchemy” at the moment and it reminded me of why people farm, especially those in beef farming at the moment.

    If I’m understanding the book right, it seems we make decisions mostly based on instinct first and then later use “logic” to justify it to ourselves and to others.

    Anyone who doesn’t factor our pre-historic human nature when talking about the future of farming is likely to get their policies and schemes wrong.

    Ok, that’s today’s philosophy! Back to cleaning out the sheep shed now :-)

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There are two factor's regarding the BEAM scheme which effect the value to farmers. The 5% reduction in Bovine nitrates next year this will close back it value in reduced production or in penalties. It will be exasperated by the drought last year forcing lads to slaughter/sell earlier.

    The other factor was the reduction in beef prices during May/June this year. In a normal year price rises or holds until mid June and drops slowly then. This year from early May there was a rumour that May born cattle would qualify for the payment. It encouraged larger finisher's to pour cattle into the factories all through May. Price stagnated from early May and we say it falling from late May on.

    IMO it took 15-20c/,kg off the peak price this year. As well the price of beef fell from a lower base and faster than normal. This was exasperated by two facts larger finisher's were finished killing winter cattle early June and had extra cattle backed up for June/July due to the March pay promise. At a guess it cost us about 7million during the May-July period

    In reality the BEAM scheme is only worth about 60 million and even at that most of it 3-4k finishers

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It was interesting to read in the rag today about factory pricing. Factories where the protests were very active are getting 3.5/kg. Places where there was no pickets are getting 3.45.So much for the appreciation of loyal suppliers

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    It was interesting to read in the rag today about factory pricing. Factories where the protests were very active are getting 3.5/kg. Places where there was no pickets are getting 3.45.So much for the appreciation of loyal suppliers

    Who’d ever have thunk factories appreciate such tactics??? Tis horrible but all they understand is dog-eat-dog

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    It was interesting to read in the rag today about factory pricing. Factories where the protests were very active are getting 3.5/kg. Places where there was no pickets are getting 3.45.So much for the appreciation of loyal suppliers
    Where do you see that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Base price wrote: »
    Where do you see that?

    In the factory prices page and I quote

    steers are trading at 3.5/kg, with some plants that were unaffected by the protests continuing to purchase at a base of 3.45/kg

    Talking to a lad near one and he said it was true.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    In the factory prices page and I quote

    steers are trading at 3.5/kg, with some plants that were unaffected by the protests continuing to purchase at a base of 3.45/kg

    Talking to a lad near one and he said it was true.
    Ah, don't believe everything that's printed.

    We got 3.50 for a few that we brought that were going overage on Tuesday from a factory that wasn't blockaded.


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