Would you ever hit a woman?

25-07-2020 12:42am

I wish some of the many mods across various fora would just bite the bullet and ban the OP. Pure troll.

Naos · 25-07-2020 12:42am

Sorry about that wrote: »

Indeed. You're talking about Jack Sprat, so I replied in the same spirit.

But isn't that the point? You're throwing out a catch-all 'men should not hit women' yet when are confronted with a large woman vs small man situation, refuse to answer.

So it then really boils down not to gender but to capability to defend oneself in a situation.

Naos · 25-07-2020 12:43am

JohnDough wrote: »

Have you any examples of this happening

Where a larger woman attacks a smaller man?

Man with broke phone · 25-07-2020 12:46am

Nah, can always push them away easily, no need to break their pretty faces.

Sorry about that · 25-07-2020 1:01am

Naos wrote: »

But isn't that the point? You're throwing out a catch-all 'men should not hit women' yet when are confronted with a large woman vs small man situation, refuse to answer.

So it then really boils down not to gender but to capability to defend oneself in a situation.

It's not the point. What I described as unsettling, is a thread where men anticipate and imagine situations where they'd be justified in hitting a woman. I've never seen an equivalent thread where women discuss hitting men, in any context. And men are more likely to physically abuse their partners than women.

I will continue to teach my children not to hit women; I trust their instincts to keep away from the knife-wielding types.

The information below is from women's aid UK.

From April 2014 to March 2017, 73% of victims of domestic homicides (homicides by an ex/partner or family member) were women. This contrasts with victims of non-domestic homicides, where the majority of victims were male (88%) and 12% of victims were female (ONS, 2018).
From April 2014 to March 2017 four in five female victims of domestic homicide were killed by a partner or ex-partner (239, 82%); of which the vast majority of suspects were male (238). 45 male victims were killed by a partner or ex-partner in the same time period; 7 of the suspects in these cases were male, and 38 were female (ONS, 2018).
One study of 96 cases of domestic abuse recorded by the police found that men are significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and significantly more likely than women to use physical violence, threats, and harassment. In a six year tracking period the majority of recorded male perpetrators (83%) had at least two incidents of recorded abuse, with many having a lot more than two and one man having 52 repeat incidents. Whereas in cases where women were recorded as the perpetrator the majority (62%) had only one incident of abuse recorded and the highest number of repeat incidents for any female perpetrator was eight. The study also found that men’s violence tended to create a context of fear and control; which was not the case when women were perpetrators. (Hester, 2013)

Stigura · 25-07-2020 1:02am

I had a good old toss the other night, whilst walking the dog. No violent women attacked me so I'm chilled AF.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 25-07-2020 1:12am

Bill Burrs bit arguing that there's plenty of reasons to hit a woman....

....you just don't do it.

It's hilarious firstly and intently but he does cook some food for thought, especially when there is the scenario people mentioned before about a woman coming at a guy with a knife and when he defends himself, and people just see the aftermath of her crying and attack him.

This is why we need due process and try not to generalize and assess each individual case with evidence based reasoning.

People shouldn't be violent. Talk. Argue. There's not much excuse for violence at all.

Naos · 25-07-2020 1:14am

Sorry about that wrote: »

It's not the point. What I described as unsettling, is a thread where men anticipate and imagine situations where they'd be justified in hitting a woman. I've never seen an equivalent thread where women discuss hitting men, in any context. And men are more likely to physically abuse their partners than women.

I'd agree you're unlikely to see a thread like that but that's because it's different.

Why not start a thread titled 'Would you ever hit a man?' and see what responses you get back. I'd say the vast majortiy would say they would hit back, domestic abuse aside.

This is an age old question which is why it's being asked. As for your trusting of instinct to keep away from the knife-wielding types, I wish innocent stab victims had somehow been taught what you know.

Strumms · 25-07-2020 1:17am

Sorry about that wrote: »

While I take your point, I have never once visualised a situation where I have to defend myself from a knife attack from anyone. I've had many boyfriends, and violence has never been a factor, either in my reality, or my imagination.

A vigorous defence of overpowering these knife-wielding women is slightly unsettling.

Very unsettling and it would be such a rare occurrence, thankfully.

No matter your gender, no matter in turn the gender of somebody trying to hurt you, self defense is a right of everyone.

If I was assaulted/attacked by a female I can...

1) use reasonable force to defend myself, my health and wellbeing, that might include some degree of violence, retaliation.

Or

2) stand there and say..” well she is a female after all, I shouldn’t really use violence to defend myself, even though as the instinct of self preservation kicks in, as I’m in pain, as I taste blood in my mouth, nahhh she’s a female.. “

I think I value myself enough to know when to choose option 1...

Naos · 25-07-2020 1:18am

Turquoise Hexagon Sun wrote: »

Bill Burrs bit arguing that there's plenty of reasons to hit a woman....

....you just don't do it.

It's hilarious firstly and intently but he does cook some food for thought, especially when there is the scenario people mentioned before about a woman coming at a guy with a knife and when he defends himself, and people just see the aftermath of her crying and attack him.

This is why we need due process and try not to generalize and assess each individual case with evidence based reasoning.

People shouldn't be violent. Talk. Argue. There's not much excuse for violence at all.

Fully agree which is why I said if I can restrain someone, man or woman, without receiving any harm and I choose to hit them instead, then I'm a dickhead.

But vice versa if I cannot restrain someone, man or woman, without receiving any harm and I choose to hit them instead, then I'm in the clear.

ToddDameron · 25-07-2020 1:27am

Many years ago I was walking back to my brothers place when I was 16 with a takeaway after having some cans with friends when a gang of adult scum snatched my food and pushed me to the ground. I was on me arse and quite confused when a woman in the group ran up and broke my nose with a kick. Of course I was petrified and shuffled off, she definitely deserved a smack though.

Clare Kat · 25-07-2020 2:10am

Does anyone consider their mother’s or sisters when they post these comments??

the_pen_turner · 25-07-2020 10:31am

Sorry about that wrote: »

It's not the point. What I described as unsettling, is a thread where men anticipate and imagine situations where they'd be justified in hitting a woman. I've never seen an equivalent thread where women discuss hitting men, in any context. And men are more likely to physically abuse their partners than women.

I will continue to teach my children not to hit women; I trust their instincts to keep away from the knife-wielding types.

The information below is from women's aid UK.

From April 2014 to March 2017, 73% of victims of domestic homicides (homicides by an ex/partner or family member) were women. This contrasts with victims of non-domestic homicides, where the majority of victims were male (88%) and 12% of victims were female (ONS, 2018).
From April 2014 to March 2017 four in five female victims of domestic homicide were killed by a partner or ex-partner (239, 82%); of which the vast majority of suspects were male (238). 45 male victims were killed by a partner or ex-partner in the same time period; 7 of the suspects in these cases were male, and 38 were female (ONS, 2018).
One study of 96 cases of domestic abuse recorded by the police found that men are significantly more likely to be repeat perpetrators and significantly more likely than women to use physical violence, threats, and harassment. In a six year tracking period the majority of recorded male perpetrators (83%) had at least two incidents of recorded abuse, with many having a lot more than two and one man having 52 repeat incidents. Whereas in cases where women were recorded as the perpetrator the majority (62%) had only one incident of abuse recorded and the highest number of repeat incidents for any female perpetrator was eight. The study also found that men’s violence tended to create a context of fear and control; which was not the case when women were perpetrators. (Hester, 2013)

The reason there is no thread on women having to justify having to hit a man is because it's considered normal and has no stigma to it. It is usually assumed that a woman is defending herself and not attacking. But it's the other way round for men .

Look at any of those you tube videos on the subject
You can often see women assaulting men and the crowd do nothing, once the man has to defend himself the crowd rushes to protect the attacker.

As for the police statistics. Can we trust them to be accurate. If I man rings the police to say his wife ,gf is attack g him he still gets taken away not her.

The domestic violence stats show 50 , 50 Male to female victims

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 11:40am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

The reason there is no thread on women having to justify having to hit a man is because it's considered normal and has no stigma to it. It is usually assumed that a woman is defending herself and not attacking. But it's the other way round for men.

Look at any of those you tube videos on the subject
You can often see women assaulting men and the crowd do nothing, once the man has to defend himself the crowd rushes to protect the attacker.

As for the police statistics. Can we trust them to be accurate. If I man rings the police to say his wife ,gf is attack g him he still gets taken away not her.

The domestic violence stats show 50 , 50 Male to female victims

But here we are in a thread where a number of men are trying to justify reasons why they would hit a woman? There’s no assumptions being made when men themselves admit that they would consider hitting a woman. The only assumption I make about those men is they’re full of bs tbh.

Those Youtube videos you’re talking about are set up and edited and all the rest of it, same as that nonsense video of your one walking through New York or wherever it was trying to make a point about sexual harassment, and they had to edit it to make it look like anyone gave a shìte about her. People simply didn’t care.

No we can’t trust police statistics to be accurate, any more than we should trust statistics that suggest domestic violence is 50/50 or that if a man calls the police to complain that he is being attacked or abused by his girlfriend or wife, that he’ll be taken away and not her.

Still the point comes back to there being many means of self-defence for a man other than lashing out or hitting a woman. A man who chooses to hit a woman is doing so because they want to, not because they have to. I’ve no sympathy for any man who would hit a woman, regardless of the circumstances. There’s nothing justifies being a brute IMO.

25-07-2020 11:50am

Sorry about that wrote: »

No, it's not remotely silly. Thankfully for me and my potential daughters in laws and granddaughters (I only have sons), there are still men who wouldn't consider hitting a women.

One of the first things my husband and I taught our boys was to never ever hit a girl or woman. This advice is as much for their sake as the woman's. We never advised them however, to curl up into a foetal position if physically attacked by a woman. We don't anticipate the knife attack. Statistics show that my sons are are potentially a much greater threat than any mad yoke with a knife (we haven't gone into disarmament tactics as they're both under ten, but they do know that they're probably strong enough to get out of physical danger without giving a slap).
Some scary yet revealing posts here; Mr F is quite the poultice.

What absolute manure.

None of that beautiful nonsense faces the simple reality that women do attack men. With weapons.

I do find it revealing that you consider them strong enough to get out of danger without using force. Interesting concept but largely ignorant.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0226/1117771-kingswood/

Women can use weapons and can absolutely injure and kill men. Your training of your sons should consider this and should in reality not be mentioning the sex of the aggressor at all.

Strumms · 25-07-2020 12:58pm

^^^Precisely, if one of your sons got into difficulty on a night out... say in a nightclub... two girls under the influence of both alcohol and drugs accused him in the wrong of taking one of their bags, the bag may have been indeed stolen by a third party, he was seen say near the area to get a seat for a friend... two of them follow him outside, one swings a punch, the other is putting a hand into her bag, he is on his own, Fownes St Lower, a side street in temple bar, the same quiet, dark street where I was attacked all be it by a male... I hope you’d educate him to the point where he is of the mind and want to defend himself, his wellbeing and possibly life. Forget the anatomy, think of the dangers. Defend yourself by any means necessary regardless of who is trying to hurt you.. some points you’ll get for lying on a hospital bed , missing three teeth, and a stab wound... “ohhh isn’t he very much the gentleman, didn’t even fight back !” You want to be off your fûcking head..

FaIIcon · 25-07-2020 1:02pm

Self defence then of course. However I am not a person that would end up in that situation, unless a freak situation.

Strumms · 25-07-2020 1:22pm

FaIIcon wrote: »

Self defence then of course. However I am not a person that would end up in that situation, unless a freak situation.

Ask anyone who has been the victim of an assault, none of us thought that we’d ‘end up in that situation’. I was watching a band in Eamon Doran’s , came outside, said goodnight to a friend who was up early for golf and started making my way towards the quays to grab a cab home, some strange looking dude followed me, mumbling, then attacked me from behind.... ok it was a male but the point stands, you just don’t know, to say you’d never end up in that situation? I thought the same, a&e and years of migraines lay ahead... defend yourself, forget about gender.

bb1234567 · 25-07-2020 1:24pm

Would hit anybody who is trying to physically attack me, as in a sustained continued attack, not a slap or whatever. Then again I'm not a huge guy so maybe I'd feel differently if I was the size of a guy who's punch would put a woman in a lot of danger

the_pen_turner · 25-07-2020 1:54pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But here we are in a thread where a number of men are trying to justify reasons why they would hit a woman? There’s no assumptions being made when men themselves admit that they would consider hitting a woman. The only assumption I make about those men is they’re full of bs tbh.

Those Youtube videos you’re talking about are set up and edited and all the rest of it, same as that nonsense video of your one walking through New York or wherever it was trying to make a point about sexual harassment, and they had to edit it to make it look like anyone gave a shìte about her. People simply didn’t care.

No we can’t trust police statistics to be accurate, any more than we should trust statistics that suggest domestic violence is 50/50 or that if a man calls the police to complain that he is being attacked or abused by his girlfriend or wife, that he’ll be taken away and not her.

Still the point comes back to there being many means of self-defence for a man other than lashing out or hitting a woman. A man who chooses to hit a woman is doing so because they want to, not because they have to. I’ve no sympathy for any man who would hit a woman, regardless of the circumstances. There’s nothing justifies being a brute IMO.

your part of the problem. saying that there is no reason to ever hit a woman perpetuates the problem. hitting a woman as a last resort does not make you a brute.

i cannot rule out hitting a woman. i have no intention of ever doing it but under the right circumstances yes i would. i cannot see how anyone could honestly say they would not.
it would be a last resort after trying to talk my way out or trying to leave and trying to restrain her. . thats exactly the same for a man.

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 2:07pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

your part of the problem. saying that there is no reason to ever hit a woman perpetuates the problem. hitting a woman as a last resort does not make you a brute.

i cannot rule out hitting a woman. i have no intention of ever doing it but under the right circumstances yes i would. i cannot see how anyone could honestly say they would not.
it would be a last resort after trying to talk my way out or trying to leave and trying to restrain her. . thats exactly the same for a man.

Part of what problem? The perception that any man who hits a woman is nothing more than a spineless and cowardly brute, or the idea that I don’t think it’s ever excusable no matter what the circumstances are?

I know you’re saying it’s a last resort, but that’s in some made-up hypothetical scenario which you’re unlikely ever to encounter in any case. Before then you would have plenty of options open to you even if your attacker were brandishing a chainsaw and you’d both hands tied behind your back (yes, that’s a purposely ridiculous scenario).

I know it’s the same for a man that your first thought isn’t to lash out either, it isn’t the first thought of most people. Their first thought when they are genuinely in fear of their lives is that they are frozen with fear, and trying to protect themselves or get the hell out of there is their first thought rather than hitting back like a cornered rat. Most people will use their brains before they’ll use their fists.

25-07-2020 2:13pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Part of what problem? The perception that any man who hits a woman is nothing more than a spineless and cowardly brute, or the idea that I don’t think it’s ever excusable no matter what the circumstances are?

I know you’re saying it’s a last resort, but that’s in some made-up hypothetical scenario which you’re unlikely ever to encounter in any case. Before then you would have plenty of options open to you even if your attacker were brandishing a chainsaw and you’d both hands tied behind your back (yes, that’s a purposely ridiculous scenario).

I know it’s the same for a man that your first thought isn’t to lash out either, it isn’t the first thought of most people. Their first thought when they are genuinely in fear of their lives is that they are frozen with fear, and trying to protect themselves or get the hell out of there is their first thought rather than hitting back like a cornered rat. Most people will use their brains before they’ll use their fists.

I hit a woman. With a police issue baton. I hit her on the arm to make her drop the knife she had just stabbed me with.

I then physically put her on the ground and restrained her, eventualky using handcuffs when a colleague arrived too assist.

She was taken to the station and treated for a minor wound from her face scraping the ground while I was in surgery getting my neck stitched up.

Under your view, I'm a scumbag. Under your view I would be dead and a dangerous criminal free. Your view is stupid, naive and dangerous.

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 2:24pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I hit a woman. With a police issue baton. I hit her on the arm to make her drop the knife she had just stabbed me with.

I then physically put her on the ground and restrained her, eventualky using handcuffs when a colleague arrived too assist.

She was taken to the station and treated for a minor wound from her face scraping the ground while I was in surgery getting my neck stitched up.

Under your view, I'm a scumbag. Under your view I would be dead and a dangerous criminal free. Your view is stupid, naive and dangerous.

You don’t know that you’d be dead any more than I do. I don’t care what you do for a living either, there are plenty of people who do your job without ever having to resort to the same ****e, and they’ve faced far worse than the circumstances you’ve described above.

It’s a view that’s neither stupid, naive nor dangerous. I’ve said from the beginning of the thread that there are many more means of self-defence than resorting to hitting a woman.

25-07-2020 2:28pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You don’t know that you’d be dead any more than I do. I don’t care what you do for a living either, there are plenty of people who do your job without ever having to resort to the same ****e, and they’ve faced far worse than the circumstances you’ve described above.

It’s a view that’s neither stupid, naive nor dangerous. I’ve said from the beginning of the thread that there are many more means of self-defence than resorting to hitting a woman.

Wow. I think your opinion can be safely disregarded as that of a knowledgeable person

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 2:36pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The views of a buffoon. Thankfully the courts aren't as stupid.

What does that mean? I don’t know what you mean by the Courts aren’t as stupid? Yer one that stabbed you got done for assault or something and you didn’t face any sanctions for using your baton to defend yourself? Sure so what? What’s that intended to prove one way or the other?

Three unarmed officers were able to disarm a man armed with a machine gun when he must have shat out a grenade and you think you’re great because you whacked a woman with a baton when she stabbed you?

#so_brave :pac:

Mister Vain · 25-07-2020 3:30pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You don’t know that you’d be dead any more than I do. I don’t care what you do for a living either, there are plenty of people who do your job without ever having to resort to the same ****e, and they’ve faced far worse than the circumstances you’ve described above.

It’s a view that’s neither stupid, naive nor dangerous. I’ve said from the beginning of the thread that there are many more means of self-defence than resorting to hitting a woman.

Ahh c'mon man. He was STABBED FFS. As far as I can see, she got off lightly.

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 3:45pm

Mister Vain wrote: »

Ahh c'mon man. He was STABBED FFS. As far as I can see, she got off lightly.

Yeah I’m not denying he doesn’t deserve to have been stabbed, but it’s not her behaviour I’m making any point about.

It’s his own attitude and behaviour, or I would say any mans behaviour where they would hit a woman, that I would say they were a scumbag for doing so. Niner is right in the respect at least that his opinion would have more standing in Court than your average scumbag, which is a point I can’t argue with.

bunderoon · 25-07-2020 4:00pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What does that mean? I don’t know what you mean by the Courts aren’t as stupid? Yer one that stabbed you got done for assault or something and you didn’t face any sanctions for using your baton to defend yourself? Sure so what? What’s that intended to prove one way or the other?

Three unarmed officers were able to disarm a man armed with a machine gun when he must have shat out a grenade and you think you’re great because you whacked a woman with a baton when she stabbed you?

#so_brave :pac:

This is extremely disrespectable to women. That you would pigeon hole them into a stereotype where they have no control or responsibility for their actions. That they are weak mentally, physically and are brittle beings.
Wake up, this is 2020. You should be empowering women to have courage in their convictions and face the consequences of their actions. You are treating them as children, which is really appalling.

You also disrespect men who can be on the receiving end of violence at the hand of a woman where you seem to think that men cannot gauge and administer a proper measured response. Be it de-escalation verbally, avoidance, seek assistance from others or as a last resort, defend himself physically.

As I wrote previously, violence is abhorrent, regardless of gender. We are talking about adults here. And if one (regardless of gender) intends to inflict pain on another individual, then they must accept that they run the risk of getting hurt in return.
Don't reduce women to mentally challenged weak individuals. It's disgusting.

Strumms · 25-07-2020 4:02pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a view that’s neither stupid, naive nor dangerous. I’ve said from the beginning of the thread that there are many more means of self-defence than resorting to hitting a woman.

If a female, through the influence of drink, drugs, psychological issue, latent anger, or a combination of or the above goes to assault you, self defense is imperative. Nobody is advocating getting her on the ground and trying to stove in her cerebellum with a cricket bat. Self... ‘DEFENSE’.. you are defending yourself from assault.

Use whatever force you ‘need’ to prevent yourself getting assaulted, injured or worse. Let it be proportionate force, absolutely.

One eyed Jack · 25-07-2020 4:12pm

bunderoon wrote: »

This is extremely disrespectable to women. That you would pigeon hole them into a stereotype where they have no control or responsibility for their actions. That they are weak mentally, physically and are brittle beings.
Wake up, this is 2020. You should be empowering women to have courage in their convictions and face the consequences of their actions. You are treating them as children, which is really appalling.

You also disrespect men who can be on the receiving end of violence at the hand of a woman where you seem to think that men cannot gauge and administer a proper measured response. Be it de-escalation verbally, avoidance, seek assistance from others or as a last resort, defend himself physically.

As I wrote previously, violence is abhorrent, regardless of gender. We are talking about adults here. And if one (regardless of gender) intends to inflict pain on another individual, then they must accept that they run the risk of getting hurt in return.
Don't reduce women to mentally challenged weak individuals. It's disgusting.

It isn’t disrespectful to women because I wasn’t making any comments about the behaviour of women in any scenario in any case.

The question was asked in the Gentleman’s Club forum, I’m a man, I’m guessing most of us contributing to the thread are men, and I’m talking about the standards of behaviour and attitudes I expect of men. There’s nothing about “if she hits me first” or any of the rest of it. That’s a child’s way of thinking and it’s the complete opposite of taking responsibility for one’s actions.

How about by your own words you don’t reduce men to mentally challenged individuals who I would more commonly refer to as brutes and scumbags on the basis that they hit women. Those men who say they would are just full of BS, I wouldn’t be the least bit concerned about them either.

It’s so unbelievably simple - leave yourself open to being charged with assault if you wish, you’re entirely responsible for the consequences of your own actions and behaviours and attitudes. It doesn’t matter what you think anyone else “deserves”, society just doesn’t function like that. Just don’t be surprised that the statistics show a greater number of men convicted of assault when a greater number of men actually commit an offence in the first place and the defence they’re offering as a justification for their actions just doesn’t stand up.

Would you ever hit a woman?

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