N25/N30 - New Ross Bypass [open to traffic]

fricatus · 21-03-2013 11:15am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

The road, which will not be tolled, will include a 900-metre bridge over the River Barrow.

Nice one!

tonc76 · 21-03-2013 11:30am

antoobrien wrote: »

I see no mention of it in the article, but wasn't the Enniscorthy Bypass originally supposed to be bundled with this?

Certainly was

http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/M11GoreytoEnniscorthyScheme/

antoobrien · 21-03-2013 11:35am

tonc76 wrote: »

Certainly was

http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/M11GoreytoEnniscorthyScheme/

Hopefully splitting it will get both done quicker than would have happened otherwise.

jd · 21-03-2013 11:45am

antoobrien wrote: »

Hopefully splitting it will get both done quicker than would have happened otherwise.

More at
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/go-ahead-for-215m-bypass-of-new-ross-1.1332791
Looks like it has indeed been split

Chris_5339762 · 21-03-2013 3:01pm

Has it really been split or is it just poor journalism all around?

antoobrien · 21-03-2013 3:11pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Has it really been split or is it just poor journalism all around?

There's no mention of the M11 in either article, so we'll just have to wait for the tender to be published.

tonc76 · 21-03-2013 3:19pm

antoobrien wrote: »

There's no mention of the M11 in either article, so we'll just have to wait for the tender to be published.

I'm led to believe that the schemes will be split in 2

Jamie2k9 · 22-03-2013 3:22am

Great to see the go ahead and times to Rosslare should see a great improvement. All we need now is the few km between Waterford city bypass and new ross to be done as dual carriageway and in time be a motorway to improve journey times all round.

fricatus · 22-03-2013 10:25am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Great to see the go ahead and times to Rosslare should see a great improvement. All we need now is the few km between Waterford city bypass and new ross to be done as dual carriageway and in time be a motorway to improve journey times all round.

That scheme was planned back before everything went kapow. It's suspended now, but it would make sense to do it so as to link the two bypasses:

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/KilkennyCountyCouncil/N25WaterfordtoGlenmore/SchemeName,16504,en.html

Sponge Bob · 22-03-2013 11:47am

I thought there was a missing link in Kilkenny but the missing link is not hideously substandard S2 (from memory) and is around 6 or 7 km long at most.

Can it be retrofitted as 2+2 between the Waterford Bypass and New Ross bypass schemes??

antoobrien · 22-03-2013 12:21pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I thought there was a missing link in Kilkenny but the missing link is not hideously substandard S2 (from memory) and is around 6 or 7 km long at most.

Can it be retrofitted as 2+2 between the Waterford Bypass and New Ross bypass schemes??

One of the options still under consideration seems to be some minor realignments of the existing N25 to avoid having to CPO some houses.

spacetweek · 25-03-2013 11:20am

Considering this bypass will only be D2AP it's surprisingly expensive. Good to see movement on it though.
The timetable is looking like:
2013 M11 Wicklow/Newlands Cross
2014 M17/M18
2015 New Ross
2016 Enniscorthy?

antoobrien · 25-03-2013 11:26am

spacetweek wrote: »

Considering this bypass will only be D2AP it's surprisingly expensive.

Not really, since it includes land acquisition costs. It's roughly equivalent to what they expect the current version of GCOB will be (if it ever goes ahead). Bear in mind that while it's only 16km of roadway there is a 900m bridge involved, so I'd imagine that's where the expense will be.

Quickelles · 25-03-2013 3:06pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Considering this bypass will only be D2AP it's surprisingly expensive. Good to see movement on it though.
The timetable is looking like:
2013 M11 Wicklow/Newlands Cross
2014 M17/M18
2015 New Ross
2016 Enniscorthy?

Minister for Public Expenditure Brendan Howlin.

Could there be a connection to the fact that 3 out of the only four possible major schemes that might go ahead in the next four years are in, or serve, Wexford?

antoobrien · 25-03-2013 3:09pm

Quickelles wrote: »

Minister for Public Expenditure Brendan Howlin.

Could there be a connection to the fact that 3 out of the only four possible major schemes that might go ahead in the next four years are in, or serve, Wexford?

It has been done to death, but the priority of those projects pre-date the current government.

Besides the minster with say so over all this is a Dub.

Aquarius34 · 25-03-2013 4:02pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Considering this bypass will only be D2AP it's surprisingly expensive. Good to see movement on it though.
The timetable is looking like:
2013 M11 Wicklow/Newlands Cross
2014 M17/M18
2015 New Ross
2016 Enniscorthy?

We already have a glorified motorway already built to Serve the SE. It's no surprise that roads to the South an Southwest are still largely ignored again. Planning in this country is a shambles. All roads lead to Dublin as usual and the N11 now been the focus this is nothing new. Why can't people see that we are not learning from this. Look at France they've spent the last 20 years trying to integrate their motorway network to connect with all it's secondary cities rather than building all routes to and from Paris. France is not a great role model, but the least we can do is learn from their mistakes and learn from other countries.

The Limerick Cork route along with the Tuam-Galway corridor needs to go ahead before the N11. The N11 has seen massive upgrades in the last 10 years and it serves much smaller population catchements than other routes. Other routes need upgrading and priority.

Traffic on the N18 just north of the Gort scheme is peaking 15,000 a day. Traffic at Croom and Adare average around the same also. These roads are major mishaps on our road network.

Sponge Bob · 25-03-2013 4:56pm

Limerick Cork is more important than Enniscorthy.

However only the southern half of that particular scheme can realistically be shoehorned in before Enniscorthy. It is realistic to activate and plan and build it before Enniscorthy.

jd · 25-03-2013 5:03pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Planning in this country is a shambles. All roads lead to Dublin as usual and the N11 now been the focus this is nothing new.
..
The Limerick Cork route along with the Tuam-Galway corridor needs to go ahead before the N11. The N11 has seen massive upgrades in the last 10 years and it serves much smaller population catchements than other routes. Other routes need upgrading and priority.
..
Traffic on the N18 just north of the Gort scheme is peaking 15,000 a day. Traffic at Croom and Adare average around the same also. These roads are major mishaps on our road network.

Whatever about the schemes in Wexford, the N11 "gap" (Arklow - Rathnew) is ready to go and should have been done long ago. It's dangerous and has traffic volumes of > 20k a day during the summer.
http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/N11-17.htm

Aquarius34 · 25-03-2013 5:15pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Limerick Cork is more important than Enniscorthy.

However only the southern half of that particular scheme can realistically be shoehorned in before Enniscorthy. It is realistic to activate and plan and build it before Enniscorthy.

What Enniscorthy needs really is a relief road for the time being, ideally it needs a bypass but with the M9 built now, a lot of traffic will use the M9 for through traffic rather than go towards Enniscorthy. Traffic dies down considerably after Enniscorthy too.

Quickelles · 26-03-2013 12:46pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

......the Tuam-Galway corridor needs to go ahead before the N11. The N11 has seen massive upgrades in the last 10 years and it serves much smaller population catchements than other routes. Other routes need upgrading and priority.

Traffic on the N18 just north of the Gort scheme is peaking 15,000 a day. Traffic at Croom and Adare average around the same also. These roads are major mishaps on our road network.

Does the "missing link" between Rathnew and Arklow not have much higher usage than that? And much more fatal accidents?

fricatus · 26-03-2013 1:14pm

Quickelles wrote: »

Does the "missing link" between Rathnew and Arklow not have much higher usage than that? And much more fatal accidents?

Yes, the traffic count is around 20,000:

http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/html/N11-17.htm

As regards New Ross, there are no counts for the bridge there, but the N25 at Glenmore is probably the best proxy, and the counts there are around 11,000 a day. Of course that only tells you part of the story. I hear regular tales of 2km tailbacks and 30 minute delays going into New Ross from Waterford most evenings, so there's no doubt that's a necessary bypass - particularly when you consider that all the HGVs going from Cork, Limerick and Waterford to Rosslare get held up there.

Aquarius34 · 26-03-2013 1:27pm

Quickelles wrote: »

Does the "missing link" between Rathnew and Arklow not have much higher usage than that? And much more fatal accidents?

The Naas bypass has higher traffic volumes and needs to be upgraded too, this isn't the argument here. It's not always about higher traffic levels when it comes to prioritizing what roads need to be upgraded, there are other factors involved.. The fact is the N11 has seen massive upgrades along with the M9 and both roads serve the SE and there are other schemes neglected and do need upgrades also. I am not against the N11 been upgraded I just cannot understand why the likes of the N20 and N18/N17/N21 roads keep been pushed under the back burner.

antoobrien · 26-03-2013 1:34pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

The Naas bypass has higher traffic volumes and needs to be upgraded. It's not always about higher traffic levels. The fact is the N11 has seen massive upgrades along with the M9 and both roads serve the SE and there are other schemes neglected and do need upgrades also. I am not against the N11 been upgraded I just cannot understand why the likes of the N20 and N18/N17/N21 roads keep been pushed under the back burner.

It's quite simple - Enniscorthy will help complete a national route, whereas M20 & N21 will start one.

New Ross is a major bottleneck, taking as long if not longer to navigate as either Claregawlay or Adare, so deserves to be on the same level as N17/18 (in fact it is behind it because M17/18 is shovel ready, New Ross has planning but has not started the "design" phase).

Then there's the added bonus that both help connectivity to Rosslare port - which is realistically more important for freight than access to Shannon, large items being prohibitively expensive to transport by air.

lucernarian · 26-03-2013 4:03pm

antoobrien wrote: »

It's quite simple - Enniscorthy will help complete a national route, whereas M20 & N21 will start one.

If nothing else, wouldn't it be better to build roads for the areas that need it most rather than extend the length of motorway towards Wexford when there will be a motorway from Gorey northwards in a couple of years time? I'm talking about the M11 Enniscorthy scheme here. Any kind of road improvement between the second and largest cities in the state really need to be looked at as a matter of priority:(

I agree the New Ross bypass is neeed in the near future though. That's a strategic part of the road network.

Aquarius34 · 26-03-2013 4:45pm

antoobrien wrote: »

It's quite simple - Enniscorthy will help complete a national route, whereas M20 & N21 will start one.

And that is your argument? :rolleyes: Sure if that's the case so, then we may as well not bother building road projects at all and just focus on improving current roads. I can't even believe I am reading this.

New Ross is a major bottleneck, taking as long if not longer to navigate as either Claregawlay or Adare, so deserves to be on the same level as N17/18 (in fact it is behind it because M17/18 is shovel ready, New Ross has planning but has not started the "design" phase).

New Ross is a bottleneck because it's on a major river crossing. Claregalway and Adare have much higher traffic levels and encounter several mlle tailbacks on busy periods. Adare and Claregalway also have a large amount of H.G.V trundling through their villages. For such small settlements it suffers from chronic traffic congestion and that is unacceptable. I understand that New Ross needs a bypass, but ther reality is other routes are severely been neglected at the expense of favoritism and political shoe picking.

Then there's the added bonus that both help connectivity to Rosslare port - which is realistically more important for freight than access to Shannon, large items being prohibitively expensive to transport by air.

Adare and Claregalway are on routes that connect to Foynes port, Galway port, and Cork port. It also connects to Shannon Airport and Cork Airport. It is also the western Corridor that connects most of Irelands major cities on the western seaboard.

Chris_5339762 · 26-03-2013 4:55pm

The trouble is this.

Claregalways is presumed bypassed as part of the M17/18 scheme so they cant build the also planned relief road until that is done or else the case for the M17/18 is reduced.

Adare was to be done as part of the M20 north scheme (as it connected physically with it) but since that has been postponed they are now having to de-couple Adare and replan it.

New Ross was not really part of anything (apart from a PPP with a road 30 miles away), so can go ahead far more easily than the bypasses or relief roads for the others.

I've said for ages that the scale of this bridge is absolutely ridiculous, but thats another argument. I do really want to drive on this bridge though, it'll be Ireland longest in every respect AFAIK and will be quite impressive.

antoobrien · 26-03-2013 5:00pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

And that is your argument? :rolleyes: Sure if that's the case so, then we may as well not bother building road projects at all and just focus on improving current roads. I can't even believe I am reading this.

No that's not my argument, that's the reasoning as to why it's more important. But my opinion is that from a strategic point of view it is currently more important than anything going near Foynes or Shannon.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Claregalway and Adare have much higher traffic levels and encounter several mlle tailbacks on busy periods.

Yeah, so does new ross.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Adare and Claregalway also have a large amount of H.G.V trundling through their villages.

Claregalway is on the N17, North of Galway city. It's easier to get from Mayo to Dublin than Foynes so that makes Claregalway a local issue. Adare is on a tourist route, the only reason it's so busy is commuter traffic,a s bourne out by the HGV figures, which are lower for both the N17 & N21 than that of the N25.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

For such small settlements it suffers from chronic traffic congestion and that is unacceptable. I understand that New Ross needs a bypass, but ther reality is other routes are severely been neglected at the expense of favoritism and political shoe picking.

Haven't you heard, Claregawlay is getting two bypasses. But then you know nothing of Galway, so I'd expect that.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Adare and Claregalway are on routes that connect to Foynes port, Galway port, and Cork port. It also connects to Shannon Airport and Cork Airport. It is also the western Corridor that connects most of Irelands major cities on the western seaboard.

Claregalway connecting to Foynes, even as someone from Galway I can't defend that as an legitimate argument for the N17, what with it being North of Galway and it being easier to go to Dublin from large parts of the north west than it currently is to get to Galway.

Adare is not on the N20 and there isn't a whole lot of heavy industry that would be going from Kerry north, so I'd rank connectivity to the ports in Cork as being higher for most of Kerry than one in Limerick.

Jamie2k9 · 26-03-2013 5:25pm

Nobody can compare New Ross bypass with links to Galway. N25 Rosslare-Waterford is of great economic importance to the south east and Ireland as its links Cork, Waterford and Rosslare ports. Waterford being the second largest port for freight in Ireland. Before the downturn you could be over 1h trying to get through New Ross in the evenings. Most days Gardi took over and replaced the traffic lights to try and get traffic moving. Don't use the route that often but with higher unemployment in the region traffic dropped. The amount of people who missed the ferries from Rosslare is unreal considering it could take 2h+ to travel from Waterford.

One thing is that the M20 should be next on the list before any other projects but by that time there will be a general election before it gets the go ahead.

Aidan1 · 26-03-2013 6:59pm

Waterford being the second largest port for freight in Ireland

Not even close. The CSO figures are here;

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/transport/2011/spt_2011.pdf

Waterford is the 5th biggest cargo port, 6th biggest if you count Bantry Bay (mainly trans-shippment though). Thats about 3% of the national total (Table 10b on Page 16). It does carry over 8% of container traffic though, so nearly half of that dealt with by Cork at 21% (the rest is Dublin). Simply put, for bulk cargo or containers, the South East isn't that important. For roll on/roll off, Rosslare is critical, but even taken together, both ports only deal with about 8% of the national cargo traffic. They're just not that big.

I can see why those arguing for road investment would emphasise their importance; relatively speaking they are very important to the South East and the road network is entirely substandard. But nationally? Not really. The problem is that there isn't much else there in terms of large settlements or industry, unlike Galway, which has major commuting problems, both within the city and in the wider region. Ultimately, all of these things are needed, but money is tight and priorities have to be set. The GCOB and N17/18 are and should be next. After that, both the N25 updates and the M20/21 (and N28) come into focus.

Quickelles · 27-03-2013 9:42am

New Ross currently blocks both the N30 (SE Dublin - Waterford traffic) as well as the N25. In summer it can take over half an hour to get through the town (or much longer at peak holidays) - certainly when approaching from the N30.

Given the importance of Rosslare to tourist traffic heading WEST it is surely in the interests of Western/SW tourism to have it prioritised?

N25/N30 - New Ross Bypass [open to traffic]

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