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Out-of-control’ Chinese rocket falling to Earth

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    Eh it's a thread discussing a Chinese aeronautical incident and I also named several other countries which specifically have no regard for human life but that's cool.

    Feel free to find me any other situation where another country has done something comparable.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eh it's a thread discussing a Chinese aeronautical incident and I also named several other countries which specifically have no regard for human life but that's cool.

    Feel free to find me any other situation where another country has done something comparable.

    Skylab. ISS will be an interesting one.

    Anything large in space that won't burn up entirely is at risk of this since almost all of it will come back down. The countries that put them up there are just as guilty as China is.

    For something more dramatic, why not look at other things dropped by countries. Like nuclear bombs on Bikini Atoll.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    So what you're saying is there's nothing comparable.

    And I'M biased about China in this thread about a situation where China is currently the only country who has done this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    If I recall correctly the Aussies jokingly issued NASA a littering fine for Skylab and NASA jokingly paid it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭nazmoalex


    Some craic if it lands/crashes at Area 51.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    If I recall correctly the Aussies jokingly issued NASA a littering fine for Skylab and NASA jokingly paid it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,901 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    nazmoalex wrote: »
    Some craic if it lands/crashes at Area 51.

    this is simply impossible, as it doesnt exist!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    If this is a feature of other space programmes I 100% withdraw my statement specific to China being irresponsible, but I've never heard of another country letting this happen.

    Anyway best of luck to NA, NZ and Africa from 8pm tonight. :D

    Most other space capable countries will tend to deorbit any defunct satellites or equipment over the South Pacific as its the remotest place on earth and the safest place to drop this stuff without hitting anyone. The only time this doesnt happen is if a satellite were to be crippled by a strike from space junk. In this case tho this just seems to be the chinese bring negligent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    dresden8 wrote: »
    If I recall correctly the Aussies jokingly issued NASA a littering fine for Skylab and NASA jokingly paid it.
    Omg i just looked this up and this is very shady.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-31/nasa-skylab-fell-to-earth-esperance-retrofocus/12282468
    As the spacecraft began to re-enter some 48 hours before its ultimate collision, a command was sent to alter the orbit away from North America "to avoid risking American lives".

    Robert Gray from the US State Department would later maintain the decision was made to ensure it landed in the Southern Atlantic or Indian Ocean.

    "It was our hope that we would never see it again," he told reporters.

    "The most dangerous orbit it could have been on did not have it going over North America at all. It had it going over Europe, over India and over China."

    ...

    While some may argue Somerville-Smith's claim of a sordid conspiracy held little stead, declassified diplomatic cables from the US Department of State — dated September 4, 1979 — lends itself to public opinion at the time about the involvement, or lack thereof, of American officials in the Skylab debacle.

    Addressing reports that Skylab was "deliberately brought down near Pine Gap so that secret military espionage equipment could be recovered from it", the cables noted any attempt to reply to the "obvious untruths in the article ... would be counterproductive".

    Bold America!


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  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So what you're saying is there's nothing comparable.

    And I'M biased about China in this thread about a situation where China is currently the only country who has done this.

    The only way you can argue that no other country has done anything like this would be to argue that satellites and rockets are perfectly reliable.

    Which country has had the most stuff crash back to Earth endangering lives?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    I don't know but i bet it's Ireland or maybe Bosnia, their space programme is absolutely reckless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭screamer


    Ah China, fills the world with crap they make and now space, but space sends it back. Good enough. Hopefully space will spit this rocket back at China.

    Unfortunately there are no rules for space, look at Elon with his hundreds of satellites there, all will eventually come crashing back to earth too.


  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The chances are slim to none, I know, but what if in the final moments the debris appeared to be on course to hit a nuclear plant somewhere?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    The chances are slim to none, I know, but what if in the final moments the debris appeared to be on course to hit a nuclear plant somewhere?
    I always think stuff like this as well, worst case scenario things about nuclear disasters. Chernobyl absolutely traumatised me.

    You're right though like! There are certain stuff that would be disastrous if struck.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Space-X satellite coming within 60 metres of an ESA satellite a few weeks ago, potentially cutting us off from space for decades or centuries if they collided, is a lot more reckless than a rocket falling to Earth after all or most of it burning up in the atmosphere.

    If that were a Chinese satellite, you'd care a lot more.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    I think it lands in an American city.

    Land as in impacts at high speed


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Out of amateur interest I lurk this forum a lot, sad to see the faux outrage/perpetually "scared" brigade invading this thread just to have a few cheap shots at the Chinese.

    Hopefully the debris lands in open waters and no damage is caused and no people are hurt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    Out of amateur interest I lurk this forum a lot, sad to see the faux outrage/perpetually "scared" brigade invading this thread just to have a few cheap shots at the Chinese.

    Hopefully the debris lands in open waters and no damage is caused and no people are hurt.

    This is a local thread for local posters only type thing?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    A Space-X satellite coming within 60 metres of an ESA satellite a few weeks ago, potentially cutting us off from space for decades or centuries if they collided, is a lot more reckless than a rocket falling to Earth after all or most of it burning up in the atmosphere.

    If that were a Chinese satellite, you'd care a lot more.
    I mean, i didn't hear about it. Also it didn't happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    This is a local thread for local posters only type thing?

    :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Well hopefully it’s not a sky lab re entry and Western Australia doesn’t have big pieces landing there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Out of amateur interest I lurk this forum a lot, sad to see the faux outrage/perpetually "scared" brigade invading this thread just to have a few cheap shots at the Chinese.

    Hopefully the debris lands in open waters and no damage is caused and no people are hurt.

    While I agree with your sentiment regarding no damage and no one being hurt, I do also agree with some posters here that this is completely reckless by the Chinese, and in keeping with their behaviour of late.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I mean, i didn't hear about it. Also it didn't happen.

    Well it did happen. And it also nearly happened in 2019. Kessler syndrome could kill space for a very long time.

    And you'd have definitely heard about it if a Chinese company was launching thousands of satellites into space with the European Space Agency having to avoid collisions with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I mean, i didn't hear about it. Also it didn't happen.

    Except for when it happened.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/spacex-starlink-esa-satellite-collision-avoidance.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Out of amateur interest I lurk this forum a lot, sad to see the faux outrage/perpetually "scared" brigade invading this thread just to have a few cheap shots at the Chinese.

    Hopefully the debris lands in open waters and no damage is caused and no people are hurt.

    Ah cmon now, a rocket landing in someone's back garden with 'Made in China' stamped on the side of it? I mean the jokes wrote themselves...


  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're right though like! There are certain stuff that would be disastrous if struck.

    In reality am not majorly concerned, as the probability is so low, but I'm sure countries w/ nuclear reactors have protocols for impact events (probably developed in case of missile attack).. am curious as to what they are!

    You have me thinking about worse places to hit now....

    Three Gorges Dam, one of the world's many massive fuel depots (think Lebanon explosion), military facilities w/ ammo dumps, a bioweapons lab.. Yellowstone Park. Dalymount Park.

    Ah feck this, I'm going back into the underground shelter.
    :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Well it did happen. And it also nearly happened in 2019. Kessler syndrome could kill space for a very long time.

    And you'd have definitely heard about it if a Chinese company was launching thousands of satellites into space with the European Space Agency having to avoid collisions with them.

    There has been plenty of negative reporting around starlink. What exactly is your issue here, do you think this shouldn't be news or what?


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In reality am not majorly concerned, as the probability is so low, but I'm sure countries w/ nuclear reactors have protocols for impact events (probably developed in case of missile attack).. am curious as to what they are!

    You have me thinking about worse places to hit now....

    Three Gorges Dam, one of the world's many massive fuel depots (think Lebanon explosion), military facilities w/ ammo dumps, a bioweapons lab.. Yellowstone Park. Dalymount Park.

    Ah feck this, I'm going back into the underground shelter.
    :pac:

    One World Trade Center. Don't think it would take out a dam or nuclear plant.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    _118413752_chinese_rocket_640-nc.png
    the coloured bit is what's coming back all 30m of it



    _118258298_tianhe_space_station_640_2x-nc.png
    just the core up now.


    via https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57013540


  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hopefully noone will get hurt/killed by this and lessons be learned


    Be all kinds of amazing if it crashed into indian ocean and recovery efforts lead people to discoving MH370


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  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One World Trade Center. Don't think it would take out a dam or nuclear plant.

    I don't know. Found this though:
    It is worth noting that only as recently as 2009 has the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) required all new nuclear power plants to incorporate design features that would ensure that, in the event of a crash by a commercial airliner, the plant’s reactor core would remain cooled or the reactor containment would remain intact, and radioactive releases would not occur from spent fuel storage pools.33 The fact that these guidelines are only beginning to take shape at nuclear power plants in
    the US, whose nuclear power plants are widely considered to be the best guarded in the world, does not bode well for the security of plants in other nuclear power states, particularly those just beginning to develop nuclear power.
    Mortars and rockets are relatively low cost, unsophisticated
    weapons already possessed by many non-state actors. Moreover, most nuclear facilities around the world are not protected by expensive missile defense systems like [Israel's] Iron Dome. One could imagine such an attack being carried out on one of South Korea’s twenty-five nuclear power plants by North Korea, which is rapidly developing and expanding its ballistic missile arsenal. This scenario is all the more concerning as a recent report by South Korea’s operator, the Korea Hydro and Nuclear Power Company (KHNP), revealed that the outer protective walls of South Korean reactors were never meant to withstand a missile strike or other forms of concerted attack.39 Again, while the IAEA recommends in its nuclear security guidance that countries “protect targets against stand-off attacks consistent with their design basis threat (DBT),” this recommendation is not required and few states have encoded it in their domestic legal framework.4

    Nuclear terrorism – Threat or not?
    Cite as: AIP Conference Proceedings 1898, 050001 (2017); https://doi.org/10.1063/1.5009230
    Published Online: 15 November 2017
    Miles A. Pomper, and Gabrielle Tarini

    https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.5009230

    Ah well, let's hope it causes no more harm than obliterating a few plankton and momentarily distracting a dolphin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,561 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Hopefully noone will get hurt/killed by this and lessons be learned


    Be all kinds of amazing if it crashed into indian ocean and recovery efforts lead people to discoving MH370
    No lesson to be learned, it is their modus operandi for these big rockets, fire and forget

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No lesson to be learned, it is their modus operandi for these big rockets, fire and forget

    If the rocket falls in my backyard, I'm adopting it as a pet.

    You would have thought in the 21st century that the technology existed to detonate a wayward rocket remotely. Or some in-built sensor to trigger explosion once it veered too far off course. Chinese are so busy acquiring vast mineral holdings by stealth around the globe, they forgot to throw a few bob on that big red button.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum



    Potential collision avoided and you're saying it happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    If the rocket falls in my backyard, I'm adopting it as a pet.

    You would have thought in the 21st century that the technology existed to detonate a wayward rocket remotely. Or some in-built sensor to trigger explosion once it veered too far off course. Chinese are so busy acquiring vast mineral holdings by stealth around the globe, they forgot to throw a few bob on that big red button.

    I'm no emgineer but an article I read last week about this quoted a US engineer saying there is something the Chinese could be adding to their rockets to avoid this happening but he presumes they've deemed it an unnecessary expense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,383 ✭✭✭✭Ghost Train


    I guess they really should add some rockets or something for thrust so they can use to do a controlled de-orbit to bring it down somewhere remote but I guess they don’t really care


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,644 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Potential collision avoided and you're saying it happened.

    No one said a collision happened, they said a collision almost happened.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    Oh ok, so it didn't happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Made in Choyna


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I'm no emgineer but an article I read last week about this quoted a US engineer saying there is something the Chinese could be adding to their rockets to avoid this happening but he presumes they've deemed it an unnecessary expense.


    If they blow it up in orbit they create a load of space debris


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    If this is a feature of other space programmes I 100% withdraw my statement specific to China being irresponsible, but I've never heard of another country letting this happen.
    How about the time a nuclear powered Soviet satellite ended up splattered across the Canadian landscape ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    How about the time a nuclear powered Soviet satellite ended up splattered across the Canadian landscape ?

    Or the time the US air force sprinkled nuclear home across Southern Spain and kept it secret.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    How about the time a nuclear powered Soviet satellite ended up splattered across the Canadian landscape ?
    "A radioactive cloud is now orbiting in space after the reactor on Kosmos 1900 was hit by something and leaked it’s coolant."
    Absolutely ridiculous.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We've all been entered into a lottery. If it hits your property you'll never have to work again.. just need to survive the hit obviously


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    "A radioactive cloud is now orbiting in space after the reactor on Kosmos 1900 was hit by something and leaked it’s coolant."
    Absolutely ridiculous.


    Which is a good thing it will protect us from ultrafast electrons ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭take everything


    Reading the wiki article on Kessler Syndrome, it says on average one satellite is destroyed by space junk every year.

    That seems a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    They should just hold off on the predictions til there is at least a very very good estimation - it's changing every 30 minutes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Probably not..But I'll ask anyway.

    Was this visible from Ireland tonight?

    I just clicked into a tracker thingy and seen how it crossed over Spain and the med very recently.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    fritzelly wrote: »
    They should just hold off on the predictions til there is at least a very very good estimation - it's changing every 30 minutes
    estimation.png


    current location from data 8 hours ago https://orbit.ing-now.com/satellite/48275/2021-035b/cz-5b/


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