Property Market 2019

seasidedub · 07-03-2019 7:15pm

JJJackal wrote: »

Where was this?

Greystones

Mad_maxx · 07-03-2019 7:59pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Are you assuming I'm just anti landlord because I'm in favor of fixing the massive imbalance in the system towards tenants?

The imbalance is in favour of tenants

The_Conductor · 07-03-2019 8:06pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The imbalance is in favour of tenants

Even the Minister himself has acknowledged that the legislative and regulatory regime is very much in favour of tenants- and is on the record stating that any further development of the regime has to be such that it doesn't drive more landlords from the sector.

At present there is a sustained exodus from the sector- this has been reported on and acknowledged by the RTB, the CSO and the Department. The reasons that landlords are getting out- has different causes- depending on who you ask- but the fact of the matter is- despite historically high rent levels- it is not a good industry to be in for an average landlord (and keep in mind the average landlord in an Irish context has 1 or 2 properties- these people make up over 80% of the entire sector). Drive all the small scale landlords from the sector- and you end up with entire rental blocks of flats- the institutional investors are not interested in picking up random units scattered around the country- scale is of utmost importance to them.

The regulatory regime has never been more in favour of tenants- and potentially more open to abuse- than the Irish rental sector- the only people who disagree with this- are socialists of one ilk or another- the landlords are voting with their feet- which means its going to get harder and harder to get a rental property...........

Pussyhands · 07-03-2019 8:58pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0307/1034886-european-central-bank-meeting/

Extremely worrying signs for the economy. This is very concerning. They are saying the economy can't handle an interest rate increase....

Wanderer78 · 07-03-2019 9:03pm

Pussyhands wrote:

Extremely worrying signs for the economy. This is very concerning. They are saying the economy can't handle an interest rate increase....

I suspect you ll find many European economies currently wouldn't be able to deal with an interest rate hike, it's understandable why the ecb has put this on the back burner for a while

Pussyhands · 07-03-2019 9:11pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I suspect you ll find many European economies currently wouldn't be able to deal with an interest rate hike, it's understandable why the ecb has put this on the back burner for a while

Scary times alright. 0% interest rate. If **** hits the fan (which the refusal to increase rates indicates is near) there is no way to combat it. The crash in 2008 may have a second iteration. Many people say we recovered extremely quick after 2008 so maybe we're in store for the true after effects of that..

q85dw7osi4lebg · 07-03-2019 9:21pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

Scary times alright. 0% interest rate. If **** hits the fan (which the refusal to increase rates indicates is near) there is no way to combat it. The crash in 2008 may have a second iteration. Many people say we recovered extremely quick after 2008 so maybe we're in store for the true after effects of that..

Won't happen, too many politicians and law makers invested in massive residential and commercial property developments Europe wide. I'd be getting out of stocks if you are expecting an imminent downturn though!

Bluefoam · 07-03-2019 9:50pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I suspect you ll find many European economies currently wouldn't be able to deal with an interest rate hike, it's understandable why the ecb has put this on the back burner for a while

Scary times alright. 0% interest rate. If **** hits the fan (which the refusal to increase rates indicates is near) there is no way to combat it. The crash in 2008 may have a second iteration. Many people say we recovered extremely quick after 2008 so maybe we're in store for the true after effects of that..

Where did you read 0% interest rate? I read the article a second time, still don't see it... Are you making up facts?

Thargor · 07-03-2019 10:18pm

Fol20 wrote: »

The problem however is they provide a lot of miss information and if they ever get into the power they could drive ireland even further off a cliff compared to the people we have right now. I actually think FG is doing a worse job than FF for their housing policies.

One interesting thing i saw on the the continent is small studio apartments for sale where they would be circa 10m squared in total. Its not ideal for a family however as a stepping stone to something where it provides some the option of not renting and getting one of these instead, i think it might be a good proposition. Even in cities such as Paris these were affordable.

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I thought you must have got the size wrong because 10sqm sounds absolutely horrendous. Turns out it's true but they are horrendous and not even cheap.

https://www.green-acres.fr/en/properties/56363a-458.htm

€85,000 for that tiny piece of crap! That is not the solution to our housing issues.

abcabc123123 wrote: »

That looks like a stepping stone to suicide. Good god.

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Located at roof level and everything. Tbh if my real home was out in the country somewhere and that was just a place to stay in the city when working I could probably live with it. The kitchen also being the toilet though....

I think you're being a bit harsh on that Paris apartment tbh, look at the map, you're a short stroll from the Seine and the Louvre, its right in the centre, plus you'd be living in Paris! Thats many peoples idea of paradise. If I had to work or study in Paris for a year and buy that and sell it on again when done with it.

Pussyhands · 07-03-2019 10:30pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Where did you read 0% interest rate? I read the article a second time, still don't see it... Are you making up facts?

What is the ECB interest rate?

JustJoe7240 · 07-03-2019 10:32pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Where did you read 0% interest rate? I read the article a second time, still don't see it... Are you making up facts?

ECB?

07-03-2019 10:38pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Are you assuming I'm just anti landlord because I'm in favor of fixing the massive imbalance in the system towards tenants?

If you think there's a 'massive imbalance' towards landlords then you're starting from an anti-landlord position right away.

Pussyhands · 07-03-2019 10:41pm

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

ECB?

Yeah, ECB.

Bluefoam · 07-03-2019 10:42pm

I stand corrected

Fol20 · 07-03-2019 10:44pm

Thargor wrote: »

I think you're being a bit harsh on that Paris apartment tbh, look at the map, you're a short stroll from the Seine and the Louvre, its right in the centre, plus you'd be living in Paris! Thats many peoples idea of paradise. If I had to work or study in Paris for a year and buy that and sell it on again when done with it.

Your right, thats a bad example of their studio apartments. you can get standard rectangle shaped studios that are small but have a toilet separate to the living area. Buying and selling houses there are much more expensive.. I cant remember exact figures but its at least 5 times more expensive that Ireland.

Mad_maxx · 07-03-2019 10:45pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0307/1034886-european-central-bank-meeting/

Extremely worrying signs for the economy. This is very concerning. They are saying the economy can't handle an interest rate increase....

Luckily there isn't going to be any interest rate hikes for years to come

Geuze · 07-03-2019 11:12pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Where did you read 0% interest rate? I read the article a second time, still don't see it... Are you making up facts?

The current ECB main rate is 0%.

See www.ecb.int

Pussyhands · 08-03-2019 11:35am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Luckily there isn't going to be any interest rate hikes for years to come

Lucky is definitely not the word I would use!

Economic forecasts cut again for this year in the eurozone, China has just had it's worst month for exports in 3 years due to trade wars and slowing global economy...

If we continue then we'll have a soft landing...

Look at this article from early last year:

"To loosen capital now is just crazy. When we get to a downturn, banks won't have the cushion to absorb the losses. Without a cushion, we will have 2008 and 2009 again."

This is what I'm talking about. If we run into trouble then the ECB are without the weapon that had us recover from 2008 so quick.

The first deputy managing director of the IMF said this in December:

“We ought to be concerned about the potency of monetary policy,” he said of the ability of the US Federal Reserve and other central banks to cut interest rates to boost the economy in the event of another downturn, while also warning that high levels of borrowing by governments constrained their scope for cutting taxes and raising spending.

Don't get me wrong, I think a recession is still unlikely. Ray Dalio, a very successful investor downgraded his risk of recession in 2019 to 35%. It's just IF something big happens we are in trouble.

cunnifferous · 08-03-2019 1:11pm

Just to post my 2c. I've been looking in the 400-450k range and noticing that second hand houses in the 500k+ range have been sitting up for 6+ months without any bids or with bids coming in the low to mid 400k range.

The area has a lot of new builds that seem to be depressing the prices of the second hand houses around them which for me is great as I prefer the greater garden size and lower density of older estates.

Sheeps · 08-03-2019 3:30pm

How many landlords in this thread?

machalla · 08-03-2019 5:09pm

Sheeps wrote: »

How many landlords in this thread?

There are likely to be less than when the thread originally started I'd suspect.

Pussyhands · 11-03-2019 11:09am

<SNIP>

Mod

Snipped as there was no suggestion why this is connected to Irish Property market.

If you're going to post a link, add some commentary/discussion/context.

mkdon · 11-03-2019 10:42pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

<SNIP>

Mod

Snipped as there was no suggestion why this is connected to Irish Property market.

If you're going to post a link, add some commentary/discussion/context.

sorry to hijack

generally how long does it take to receive keys have once contracts signed?

L1011 · 11-03-2019 10:51pm

mkdon wrote: »

sorry to hijack

generally how long does it take to receive keys have once contracts signed?

Unanswerable without vastly more info - and even then it's still a guess at best.

Is the house a probate sale? Is there a chain on the vendors side? Is there a mortgage against the property, or any other lien?

mkdon · 11-03-2019 10:54pm

L1011 wrote: »

Unanswerable without vastly more info - and even then it's still a guess at best.

Is the house a probate sale? Is there a chain on the vendors side? Is there a mortgage against the property, or any other lien?

none of the above

noone living in house either

would say 1 to 3 months is standard?

ballpark anyone know?

Bluefoam · 12-03-2019 9:55am

hmmm wrote: »

If you are applying for a mortgage, don't plan before 3 months I'd say. It can be fast in the beginning, quite slow in the middle, and very fast at the end.

Are we still talking about a house purchase...?

kippy · 12-03-2019 9:59am

Once the contracts have been signed (By both sides) it is generally pretty quick in my experience.
Most of the holdups tend to take place prior to both/either parties signing the contracts. Usually a closing date is established when the second party signs the contracts and it's the first time there is some indication of a date in the entire process.
IE, you generally wouldn't sign any contract as a purchaser unless you had your mortage and surrounding paperwork completed.

All that said there are holdups with finance and final searches that might delay things.

Pussyhands · 12-03-2019 10:48am

If people can't understand why the US economy is related to the Irish property market that's their problem.

Apparently my link about the US economy is not related to the property market in 2019 but discussion about when keys are handed over are.

kippy · 12-03-2019 11:15am

Pussyhands wrote: »

If people can't understand why the US economy is related to the Irish property market that's their problem.

Apparently my link about the US economy is not related to the property market in 2019 but discussion about when keys are handed over are.

Are you suggesting that those of us who commented on the timeline of the keys being handed over do not understand the link or otherwise between the Irish Property market and the US economy?

Pussyhands · 12-03-2019 11:21am

kippy wrote: »

Are you suggesting that those of us who commented on the timeline of the keys being handed over do not understand the link or otherwise between the Irish Property market and the US economy?

You might but there's certainly some people who can't understand the links. Maybe those people are just scared because they're up to their eyes in debt.

Just to be clear the risk of recession went up to 74% from 23% in December in the US.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 12-03-2019 11:32am

Pussyhands wrote: »

You might but there's certainly some people who can't understand the links. Maybe those people are just scared because they're up to their eyes in debt.

Just to be clear the risk of recession went up to 74% from 23% in December in the US.

This is an Irish forum. You talk about people being up to their eyes in debt but you are dying to get into debt with a mortgage?

Graham · 12-03-2019 12:27pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

If people can't understand why the US economy is related to the Irish property market that's their problem.

Apparently my link about the US economy is not related to the property market in 2019 but discussion about when keys are handed over are.

Mod Note

So discuss it.

Don't just link dump and run off.

browne_rob5 · 12-03-2019 2:10pm

cunnifferous wrote: »

Just to post my 2c. I've been looking in the 400-450k range and noticing that second hand houses in the 500k+ range have been sitting up for 6+ months without any bids or with bids coming in the low to mid 400k range.

The area has a lot of new builds that seem to be depressing the prices of the second hand houses around them which for me is great as I prefer the greater garden size and lower density of older estates.

Yes I think if you willing to get involved in some renovation work there is value out there in the second hand market at the moment.

Bluefoam · 12-03-2019 2:52pm

browne_rob5 wrote: »

Yes I think if you willing to get involved in some renovation work there is value out there in the second hand market at the moment.

Plus BER has become a big selling factor... cheap fuel bills over bigger garden sizes; composit doors and good quality windows, new kitchens etc... seem to be in demand. Plus first time buyers get a huge cash gift from the state, but only if they buy a new home.

phunkadelic · 12-03-2019 3:01pm

mkdon wrote: »

sorry to hijack

generally how long does it take to receive keys have once contracts signed?

For me it was contracts signed 5th December, got keys 21st December

MrWyatt · 12-03-2019 3:06pm

We're linked to US economy but even more so we are linked to the Brexit mess and also the rest of Europe which is not looking good according to this:
https://news.yahoo.com/deutsche-bank-europe-biggest-risk-global-economy-right-now-115245081.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFCj9V7puAadCZcs0Fx2c7uxJoRTOGWfKfY_esfS7pYO2onU9QhtEtX4y8N9AO6uYVpIdkf3XzFauVO42LwBh7YSjnxRU8xlz3bz-QMNcSIMUZ1k3OnNhZGMfxG_xy8qZ1TBjNyrGtQQbKZnAKssKYTU5B88gakd9qzF9j5DkUK3

cunnifferous · 12-03-2019 7:43pm

browne_rob5 wrote: »

Yes I think if you willing to get involved in some renovation work there is value out there in the second hand market at the moment.

I do agree, however one risk that I've warned about is the spiraling costs of builders and/or trades making relatively minor upgrades fairly expensive.

12-03-2019 8:41pm

cunnifferous wrote: »

I do agree, however one risk that I've warned about is the spiraling costs of builders and/or trades making relatively minor upgrades fairly expensive.

I'd have to disagree about there being value in "fixer uppers" and I'm a sparks with trade connections.
Recently looked at two places and couldn't make the figures add up because of unrealistic asking prices. These were both basically shells that needed 150/200k before we could move in.

The_Conductor · 12-03-2019 8:56pm

BrownFinger wrote: »

I'd have to disagree about there being value in "fixer uppers" and I'm a sparks with trade connections.
Recently looked at two places and couldn't make the figures add up because of unrealistic asking prices. These were both basically shells that needed 150/200k before we could move in.

I'd have to concur with this.
I was recently looking at property on behalf of a sibling- and found the exact same. I'm not sure where people are finding 'fixer-uppers'- but the amount of work needed in any I've seen has been of a nature that you're as good as doing a rebuild (in most cases including the roof). Also- there was damn all difference in the asking price to recompense someone for the amount of time, effort and money they would have to expend to bring the properties up to a reasonable standard.

kippy · 12-03-2019 8:58pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd have to concur with this.
I was recently looking at property on behalf of a sibling- and found the exact same. I'm not sure where people are finding 'fixer-uppers'- but the amount of work needed in any I've seen has been of a nature that you're as good as doing a rebuild (in most cases including the roof). Also- there was damn all difference in the asking price to recompense someone for the amount of time, effort and money they would have to expend to bring the properties up to a reasonable standard.

Agree with this and previous posts of a similar nature.

cunnifferous · 12-03-2019 9:19pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd have to concur with this.
I was recently looking at property on behalf of a sibling- and found the exact same. I'm not sure where people are finding 'fixer-uppers'- but the amount of work needed in any I've seen has been of a nature that you're as good as doing a rebuild (in most cases including the roof). Also- there was damn all difference in the asking price to recompense someone for the amount of time, effort and money they would have to expend to bring the properties up to a reasonable standard.

I've seen a bit of both, but I have been house hunting for a while!

If you can get somewhere that looks a bit rough but consists of mostly cosmetic issues then you can find some value. Anything with major works required though I've had walk away from. People just aren't factoring the costs of renovations into the price, it's all based on 'potential'. I was looking at one 80m2 bungalow for 500k where the EA suggested I build a glass tunnel to garage out the back to add some space :eek::pac:

What I was getting at in my original post was that although the asking price for these kind of properties hasn't dropped yet, there have only been very low/no bids on the ones that I've been keeping my eye on in the last 9 months or so. I think this is as a result of the many new builds coming on stream in the area so I'm hopeful of getting a decent deal down the line as hopefully the owners of these second hand properties try to move them on.

Time will tell I guess!

L1011 · 12-03-2019 9:23pm

People in Ireland seem to price the cost of renovations in, leaving no margin for Homes Under The Hammer style operations. Which makes more sense I honestly don't know.

The UK has much higher stamp duty which adds to the cost of anyone flipping at that, yet it's still commonly done due to houses in need of significant work obtaining significant discounts.

Nobodysrobots · 13-03-2019 12:22am

Those properties requiring work are most likely in settled housing estates with established communities, decent sized front/back gardens, minimal to none social housing, catchment areas for good schools, closer to public transport, no management fees, no issues with parking spaces, etc. People are willing to pay a premium for these.

The only thing new builds really have going for them is A ber rating, which isn't that much different in heating/elec bills when you insulate attic, install new boiler and fit decent windows. Wall insulation (dry lining or external wrap) puts the icing on the cake.

I know it's snobby but I'm just trying to give an idea of the mentality behind people paying similar prices for 2nd hand and new builds. Above points certainly influenced my decision recently, especially the minimum 10% social housing in new build estates. I've heard of this percentage being even higher in certain developments.

oceanman · 13-03-2019 8:21am

Nobodysrobots wrote: »

Those properties requiring work are most likely in settled housing estates with established communities, decent sized front/back gardens, minimal to none social housing, catchment areas for good schools, closer to public transport, no management fees, no issues with parking spaces, etc. People are willing to pay a premium for these.

The only thing new builds really have going for them is A ber rating, which isn't that much different in heating/elec bills when you insulate attic, install new boiler and fit decent windows. Wall insulation (dry lining or external wrap) puts the icing on the cake.

I know it's snobby but I'm just trying to give an idea of the mentality behind people paying similar prices for 2nd hand and new builds. Above points certainly influenced my decision recently, especially the minimum 10% social housing in new build estates. I've heard of this percentage being even higher in certain developments.

you are probably right, most people in truth are snobs but very few will openly admit it...

bluelamp · 13-03-2019 8:27am

oceanman wrote: »

you are probably right, most people in truth are snobs but very few will openly admit it...

Wanting a house in a settled area, green space, good schools, and not sorrounded by social housing makes someone a snob? I'd say it makes them intelligent.

13-03-2019 9:12am

oceanman wrote: »

you are probably right, most people in truth are snobs but very few will openly admit it...

Yeah let's use a pejorative term for people who want to live somewhere nice, those monsters.

Essien · 13-03-2019 11:51am

Nobodysrobots wrote: »

The only thing new builds really have going for them is A ber rating, which isn't that much different in heating/elec bills when you insulate attic, install new boiler and fit decent windows. Wall insulation (dry lining or external wrap) puts the icing on the cake.

I'd be interested to know the difference in energy bills between A rated new builds and similarly sized B,C or D rated houses if anyone has experience of both.

The savings would need to be significant to justify the extra cost.

Pussyhands · 13-03-2019 11:55am

Not seeing much added in my area recently tbh...

Cuddlesworth · 13-03-2019 12:07pm

Essien wrote: »

I'd be interested to know the difference in energy bills between A rated new builds and similarly sized B,C or D rated houses if anyone has experience of both.

The savings would need to be significant to justify the extra cost.

Its not just about the bills, its about quality of life.

cruizer101 · 13-03-2019 1:06pm

I would agree coming home to nice warm house is better.
But I'd also caveat it with although a lot of new home are A rated in reality the quality of finish isn't great so they can still be drafty and that.
Also I've a few friends who find their A Rated homes too warm, probably due to bad design or finish.

Property Market 2019

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