UFC 261 - Apr 24th - 3 Title Fights

yourdeadwright · 26-04-2021 11:27am

I think everyone is going overboard with Usman ,

Yes he is very good fighter but he is not miles out ahead of everyone

He had a very close fight with Colby , I think rematch could go either way ,
He got dropped by Burns who let him off the hook,

Masvdal is on of the great characters of MMA but not fighters he is a bit of a journey man always has been , yes the ko was very impressive but its a rematch we didn't need to see,

I'd also love to see him fight Wonder boy

Starlord_01 · 26-04-2021 11:32am

Perfect time for Masvidal v Diaz 2

The Nal · 26-04-2021 11:34am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think everyone is going overboard with Usman ,

Yes he is very good fighter but he is not miles out ahead of everyone

He had a very close fight with Colby , I think rematch could go either way ,
He got dropped by Burns who let him off the hook,

Masvdal is on of the great characters of MMA but not fighters he is a bit of a journey man always has been , yes the ko was very impressive but its a rematch we didn't need to see,

I'd also love to see him fight Wonder boy

Defo a few challenges ahead but 14 wins in a row in the UFC, 17 in total. Unbeaten in 8 years since his 2nd ever fight. Pretty good!

Starlord_01 wrote: »

Perfect time for Masvidal v Diaz 2

Hopefully a Fight Night.

eagle eye · 26-04-2021 11:34am

yourdeadwright wrote:

He had a very close fight with Colby , I think rematch could go either way , He got dropped by Burns who let him off the hook,

Despite what the scorecards said he was always in control against Colby.
In the Burns fight he saved himself, it wasn't that Burns stopped.
He's shown everything, striking, grappling, wrestling, finishes on the feet and the floor. He's also shown he can handle himself when things go against him.
He's the p4p best right now and imo possibly ever.
Colby imo is streets ahead of everybody else in the division but well below Usman's level.

yourdeadwright · 26-04-2021 11:55am

eagle eye wrote: »

Despite what the scorecards said he was always in control against Colby.
In the Burns fight he saved himself, it wasn't that Burns stopped.
He's shown everything, striking, grappling, wrestling, finishes on the feet and the floor. He's also shown he can handle himself when things go against him.
He's the p4p best right now and imo possibly ever.
Colby imo is streets ahead of everybody else in the division but well below Usman's level.

He certainly was not always in control the fight was very very even ,
The 3 judges had it , a draw, Colby 1 up ,Usman 1 up ,
Now obviously Usman won but the rematch could go anyway,

Look I'm not arguing that he is not great he clearly is a great fighter

I just think he needs a few more big wins before we start comparing him to the GSP's or Jon Jones of this world,

hawaii501 · 26-04-2021 12:14pm

He'll beat colby again, I would have much rather saw them fight on Saturday than masvidal.

I actually thought masvidal won the 1st round but nothing better than seeing a bit of showboating then to be KO'd seconds later so glad the fight ended the way it did

AlmightyCushion · 26-04-2021 12:39pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He certainly was not always in control the fight was very very even ,
The 3 judges had it , a draw, Colby 1 up ,Usman 1 up ,
Now obviously Usman won but the rematch could go anyway,

Look I'm not arguing that he is not great he clearly is a great fighter

I just think he needs a few more big wins before we start comparing him to the GSP's or Jon Jones of this world,

Rounds 3 and 5 were clearly Usman. The other 3 were pretty close from what I remember. If one judge had it a draw and one had it to Usman, then if it went to a decision it should be an Usman win. That round 5 was clearly Usman's round even if he didn't get the finish.

yourdeadwright · 26-04-2021 12:52pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Rounds 3 and 5 were clearly Usman. The other 3 were pretty close from what I remember. If one judge had it a draw and one had it to Usman, then if it went to a decision it should be an Usman win. That round 5 was clearly Usman's round even if he didn't get the finish.

Yes your correct
So going into round 5 whoever won that round won the title, anyway you look at it that is a very close fight ,

Fighting Masvidal again over Colby was nonsense but it might give Colby time to improve so that last round goes his way next time ,

walshb · 26-04-2021 2:20pm

simongurnick wrote: »

Is Rose the most likeable person in sports???

No

I find her contrived and OTT....

Even when being announced the winner.....why the forcing herself to tear up and cry...

Anyway....

PatrickDoherty · 26-04-2021 2:26pm

I would imagine Wonderboy's style could give Usman problems, could see him kicking and moving for 5 rounds to a victory against him.

Beersmith · 26-04-2021 3:30pm

walshb wrote: »

No

I find her contrived and OTT....

Even when being announced the winner.....why the forcing herself to tear up and cry...

Anyway....

Jesus i was crying for her. Weird you think it was forced

FileNotFound · 26-04-2021 3:33pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Jesus i was crying for her. Weird you think it was forced

I was just confused by it, must be missing the backstory....

The 10% Belgian beers from Lidl probably did not help with my clarity...

yourdeadwright · 26-04-2021 3:42pm

walshb wrote: »

No

I find her contrived and OTT....

Even when being announced the winner.....why the forcing herself to tear up and cry...

Anyway....

I'm not sure if your aware of her story ,i'd imagine not be your post,

She is textbook of what someone who has been through what she has been through as in she tries to stay strong but from time to time her emotions just come out and she can't contain them ,Even right before the fight reassuring herself out loud "im the best , im the best" & not in a confident way , for someone not aware of her past you might think thats odd but when you realise she herself has commented numerous times on suffering sexual abuse as a child things make a little more sense, She has never gone into detail and said she never will ,

Her relationship with Pat has always seemed a but odd and as we all know he's super controlling but again its not surprising someone who suffered as a child has a what we would call "ODD" relationship as an adult ,

walshb · 26-04-2021 3:42pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Jesus i was crying for her. Weird you think it was forced

Kind of can't take to her.....just that contrived vibe.

Still not as fooking irritating as that Shevchenko poxy dance routine......ah!!!

In general MMA and combat sports people are difficult to take to. They are a rare breed of confidence and arrogance.....boxing included.....it seems to be needed..it must come with the natural aggression that they have and need to do what they do.

The Nal · 26-04-2021 3:48pm

walshb wrote: »

Kind of can't take to her.....just that contrived vibe.

Still not as fooking irritating as that Shevchenko poxy dance routine......ah!!!

In general MMA and combat sports people are difficult to take to. They are a rare breed of confidence and arrogance.....boxing included.....it seems to be needed..it must come with the natural aggression that they have and need to do what they do.

Post McGregor its much easier to get ahead with a personality. Its kind of essential really. Look at interviews with people like Colby from 4 or 5 years ago and it was all vanilla.

Same in boxing. Poor Larry Holmes gets so overlooked because he was the guy after Ali.

Can't deny that it works. Although this BMF stuff is going way too far.

Tazzimus · 26-04-2021 3:56pm

walshb wrote: »

No

I find her contrived and OTT....

Even when being announced the winner.....why the forcing herself to tear up and cry...

Anyway....

Very much doubt that was forced, she's been through some stuff..

Also, shocker, people get emotional sometimes.

PatrickDoherty · 26-04-2021 3:59pm

Rogan crying nearly made me get sick, what is wrong with him.

FileNotFound · 26-04-2021 4:01pm

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Rogan crying nearly made me get sick, what is wrong with him.

Way tooooo many steroids in too short a period for that chap - I used to like him a few years back but since have come to really dislike him..

MrStuffins · 26-04-2021 4:08pm

walshb wrote: »

No

I find her contrived and OTT....

Even when being announced the winner.....why the forcing herself to tear up and cry...

Anyway....

Yeah, why was she forcing herself?.

I mean, she'd only just won the biggest prize in her entire sport whilst being an underdog. After having found martial arts as an outlet for very well publicised personal problems, like being a victim of childhood sexual abuse.

And not only that, but has also spoken about her fears at keeping her own mental state in check as she comes from a family of people with severe mental health issues. Her father suffered from Schizophrenia before dying and had to be removed from the family after becoming a danger to them.

Sure what would she have to be emotional about? So contrived!

walshb · 26-04-2021 4:18pm

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Rogan crying nearly made me get sick, what is wrong with him.

Men are allowed cry too!!!:P

martyos121 · 26-04-2021 4:37pm

walshb wrote: »

Men are allowed cry too!!!:P

But surely only if they meet your strict criteria?

walshb · 26-04-2021 5:12pm

martyos121 wrote: »

But surely only if they meet your strict criteria?

Absolutely.....needs to be a very good reason!

Big Ears · 26-04-2021 5:15pm

walshb wrote: »

Kind of can't take to her.....just that contrived vibe.

Still not as fooking irritating as that Shevchenko poxy dance routine......ah!!!

Ah now you've gone too far !!, I quite enjoy seeing that after she wins.

Her performance was the most complete I've ever seen from a female MMA fighter. Her striking was excellent as always, dominated in the clinch with knees to legs, body and head, took her down at will, battered her on the ground after advancing to the crucifix, it was almost as if she was trying to show off how rounded she is.

She's the only threat to Nunes aswell, but with the way Dana is talking they won't be making that fight again anytime soon. Maybe for the best, if they do go at it a 3rd time it'll only get even bigger if both are left to string off a few more title defences first.

Andrew76 · 26-04-2021 6:41pm

walshb wrote: »

Still not as fooking irritating as that Shevchenko poxy dance routine......ah!!!

Have to agree, that dance is very cringey. She'll twist her ankle doing it one of these days too. :pac:

Not sure if anyone has posted these already, great view of both knockouts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtMTpP53DuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqheR9olYM0

Zero-Cool · 26-04-2021 8:32pm

Unreal video, absolutely puts to bed any talk of early stoppage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdHR153IH0

mailburner · 26-04-2021 10:01pm

That vid really shows how slow herb dean was and how clean a punch
that was also

xtal191 · 26-04-2021 11:21pm

Great video of the main event KO, looks even faster

Mellor · 27-04-2021 6:01am

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Unreal video, absolutely puts to bed any talk of early stoppage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdHR153IH0

"Rose jumped and connected maybe once" :cool:

That video sums it up. She as out of it. Great stoppage. Allow a few more strikes achieves only harm.

Mellor · 27-04-2021 6:14am

Also, for anyone that's wondering what what Weili was going at the start or this clip see below.

https://streamable.com/zq0m2k

Rose (and Whitman) did some homework, found a habit, and exploited it.
The kick was telegraphed low to invite that move, then went high. Unreal.

MrStuffins · 27-04-2021 8:51am

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Unreal video, absolutely puts to bed any talk of early stoppage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdHR153IH0

...........

eagle eye wrote: »

Right I wasn't going to get involved in this but you are overblowing it. She went to get up immediately after the kick, Rise jumped on her and maybe connected once.
I can understand the referee's decision because the kick looked brutal and he wanted to prevent more damage to her but she appeared to be able to continue the second it was stopped.
Afterwards there looked to be a bit if a wabble but it's one of those things that happens and you'd pass no heed on if a person wasn't hit.
As I said I'm fully in agreement with the referee's decision and I'd do the same myself in his situation but Zhang was never out from what I seen.

It's not too late to delete this bro :pac:

Zero-Cool · 27-04-2021 8:16pm

Christ, both bones snapped!

https://twitter.com/chrisweidman/status/1387015274621280258?s=19

eagle eye · 27-04-2021 10:02pm

MrStuffins wrote:

It's not too late to delete this bro

I've no intention of deleting it. I stand by my comments.
Of course you have people who can't read who've accused me of saying the stoppage was too early.

Mellor · 28-04-2021 4:29am

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Christ, both bones snapped!
I think that was always on the card given the way it wrapped around Hall's leg. Like it was made of rubber.

eagle eye wrote: »

I've no intention of deleting it. I stand by my comments.
Of course you have people who can't read who've accused me of saying the stoppage was too early.

You can stand by them, but the video clearly shows you were wrong.
And I'm aware you didn't make the original comment that said it was an early stoppage. I'm talking about your jump in.

Mellor wrote:

Eyes open or closed means nothing...
She was face down eating punches and not even blocking. Not a hope she getting outta there

EagleEye wrote:

Right I wasn't going to get involved in this but you are overblowing it. She went to get up immediately after the kick, Rise jumped on her and maybe connected once.

She was only out for a second, and came to when her head cracked the mat. But she was hardly with it. A knocked down fighter intelligently defending will be focused, hands up, probably in an open guard. Not sitting up doing a 1000yard stare in the wrong direction.
Rose jumped in and landed 4 undefended shots to the head. Not the maybe 1 you claimed. Zhang's hands were down, she was nowhere near defending.

eagle eye · 28-04-2021 5:57am

Mellor wrote:

She was only out for a second, and came to when her head cracked the mat. But she was hardly with it. A knocked down fighter intelligently defending will be focused, hands up, probably in an open guard. Not sitting up doing a 1000yard stare in the wrong direction. Rose jumped in and landed 4 undefended shots to the head. Not the maybe 1 you claimed. Zhang's hands were down, she was nowhere near defending.

She immediately got up when she went down, there was no pause.
Then she got hit again and about two seconds later the fight was stopped.
Rose didn't appear to do much damage with those hammer fists. They didn't look like they connected properly.
As I've said all along I'd have stopped it. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been stopped.
Looking back in hindsight I don't think Zhang was out at any stage is what I'm saying.
I can't see how anybody can be certain that Zhang was out.

Inviere · 28-04-2021 6:47am

eagle eye wrote: »

Looking back in hindsight I don't think Zhang was out at any stage is what I'm saying

So she made a conscious decision to drop to the canvas?

Mellor · 28-04-2021 8:40am

eagle eye wrote: »

She immediately got up when she went down, there was no pause.

I never mentioned a pause. Nor does my point need a pause.
She dropped like a marionette because Rose hit her reset button. Fight over.
She sat up, and lights were on but clearly nobody was home.

Then she got hit again and about two seconds later the fight was stopped.
Rose didn't appear to do much damage with those hammer fists. They didn't look like they connected properly.

Hit 4 more times. Not the maybe 1 you suggested.
There no requirement for hammerfist to do much damage. It was stopped because Zhang wasn't defending (as was claim in the post that started it all).

As I've said all along I'd have stopped it. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been stopped. Looking back in hindsight I don't think Zhang was out at any stage is what I'm saying.
I can't see how anybody can be certain that Zhang was out.

She was out when she dropped vertically. That's a telltale sign. And yes she snapped out quickly. But she was clearly not back in the game. Unfocused, not protecting head.

Totally different behaviour to knock down but not knock out.

Brock Turnpike · 28-04-2021 9:13am

Mellor wrote: »

Also, for anyone that's wondering what what Weili was going at the start or this clip see below.

https://streamable.com/zq0m2k

Rose (and Whitman) did some homework, found a habit, and exploited it.
The kick was telegraphed low to invite that move, then went high. Unreal.

That is brilliant.

yourdeadwright · 28-04-2021 9:53am

Brilliant work by the coaching staff at the highest level it can make such a difference,

I love when they really get the details right ,

Did anyone see the recent interview with GSP ,
He said he had a secret weapon when fighting , a guys who as a hobby would slow down fights frame by frame and was able to work out who had the quickest reactions and measure it ,

He said he first used him for the second BJ Penn fight (the first one was super close) and as it happened BJ had the quickest reactions at the time of any UFC fighter at the time so GSP learned he could not throw first or BJ would slip and tag him ,

So after talking to neurologist he learned he could tire out BJ nervous system like any other muscle by throwing a large number of feints so BJ would have to keep reacting and tire himself out

Some brilliant minds at work there

Tazzimus · 28-04-2021 9:58am

eagle eye wrote: »

She immediately got up when she went down, there was no pause.
Then she got hit again and about two seconds later the fight was stopped.
Rose didn't appear to do much damage with those hammer fists. They didn't look like they connected properly.
As I've said all along I'd have stopped it. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been stopped.
Looking back in hindsight I don't think Zhang was out at any stage is what I'm saying.
I can't see how anybody can be certain that Zhang was out.

Because she went limp when the headkick connected, and the fact she wasn't aware of where she was or what was going on when she woke back up after her head hitting the mat, even when Rose was punching her in the face.

eagle eye · 28-04-2021 9:59am

Mellor wrote:

Hit 4 more times. Not the maybe 1 you suggested. There no requirement for hammerfist to do much damage. It was stopped because Zhang wasn't defending (as was claim in the post that started it all).

I never claimed she was defending herself at any stage.
Fact is as soon as she went down she immediately came back up. You say the way she went down is a telltale sign but it's not definitive.
She got knocked down on her way back up and within two seconds the fight was called and rightfully so.
Only difference between out thoughts is whether Zhang was knocked out or not. You say she was and I say it doesn't look like it to me.

The Nal · 28-04-2021 10:35am

I do think the ref could've given Zhang another 2 seconds. "Show me something". He started to jump in after one punch on the mat. Rose still would've won mind you.

eagle eye · 28-04-2021 10:36am

The Nal wrote:

I do think the ref could've given Zhang another 2 seconds. "Show me something". He started to jump in after one punch on the mat. Rose still would've won mind you.

Well I think he was right to stop it.

Tazzimus · 28-04-2021 10:55am

The Nal wrote: »

I do think the ref could've given Zhang another 2 seconds. "Show me something". He started to jump in after one punch on the mat. Rose still would've won mind you.

Another 2 seconds to absorb a few more unanswered punches? Stoppage was good.

The Nal · 28-04-2021 11:11am

Tazzimus wrote: »

Another 2 seconds to absorb a few more unanswered punches? Stoppage was good.

Probably was yeah. Just think the champ gets that extra second. Very similar to Lennox Lewis vs McCall if you remember. Was clearly out but woke up as soon as the ref waved it off.

Actually think Zhang wasn't stumbling about after either due to being KO'd but because she landed very awkwardly on her leg when she hit the deck.

Tazzimus · 28-04-2021 11:56am

Why would you give someone who was just knocked out an extra second to take more damage, champion or not?

The Nal · 28-04-2021 12:04pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

Why would you give someone who was just knocked out an extra second to take more damage, champion or not?

Slim chance they may recover. Again, probably the right call but maybe one punch too early.

Tazzimus · 28-04-2021 12:12pm

It was a knockout, not a knockdown. The fight was done.

The Nal · 28-04-2021 12:26pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

It was a knockout, not a knockdown. The fight was done.

Some slap off her jaw alright. Looking forward to the rematch. Assume there is one?

Mellor · 28-04-2021 12:48pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I never claimed she was defending herself at any stage.

And I never said you did.
I was pretty clear that other poster said it. I pointed out she wasn’t defending. And then you jumped in with the “overblowing it, maybe 1 punch” post.
Which clearly wasn’t accurate.

Fact is as soon as she went down she immediately came back up. You say the way she went down is a telltale sign but it's not definitive.

It’s pretty massive sign. Is it possible she could slipped? Unlikely tbh. But even if she did, she’d have been alert when she went down.
She wasn’t. Instead she sat up dazed, no defence, staring into the distance. Which is another telltale KO sign.

Only difference between out thoughts is whether Zhang was knocked out or not. You say she was and I say it doesn't look like it to me.

I know that’s that’s what you saying now.
But you were clearly disagreeing with more to start with. Questioning the number of hammer fists. She was good to continue etc.

Anyway, we’re not going to agree. And it’s not important.

MrStuffins · 28-04-2021 1:28pm

The Nal wrote: »

Probably was yeah. Just think the champ gets that extra second.

C'mon man.............

UFC 261 - Apr 24th - 3 Title Fights

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