Can i name and shame cowboy builder

Ginger83 · 18-06-2019 11:21pm #1

Is there much he can do

Darc19 · 18-06-2019 11:23pm

He can sue you for defamation if you do not have absolute and verifiable proof of what you are saying.

Small claims court best option if the issue is worth under €2k

Elemonator · 18-06-2019 11:24pm

He could sue you for defamation of professional character. You would need to prove it is true with verifiable evidence for a defence against this.

Ginger83 · 18-06-2019 11:31pm

Darc19 wrote: »

He can sue you for defamation if you do not have absolute and verifiable proof of what you are saying.

Small claims court best option if the issue is worth under €2k

Can i explain to public about our nightmare build

notharrypotter · 18-06-2019 11:43pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Can i explain to public about our nightmare build

Not in a way that identifies the builder either directly or indirectly.

Did you engage either an engineer or an architect to supervise the project?
Did you have a building contract with the builder?
Who drew the plans.
Did you have a proper tender document listing everything to be provided?

There is a difference between justice and law.

If you wish to pursue the aledged cowboy you must prove that what was done either did not conform with the agreed tender document and or construction agreement.
Or is not in compliance with building regulations.

This will not be cheap.

Ginger83 · 18-06-2019 11:43pm

Its not about the money

Ginger83 · 18-06-2019 11:52pm

notharrypotter wrote: »

Not in a way that identifies the builder either directly or indirectly.

Did you engage either an engineer or an architect to supervise the project?
Did you have a building contract with the builder?
Who drew the plans.
Did you have a proper tender document listing everything to be provided?

There is a difference between justice and law.

If you wish to pursue the aledged cowboy you must prove that what was done either did not conform with the agreed tender document and or construction agreement.
Or is not in compliance with building regulations.

This will not be cheap.

Unfortunately we made the mistake of allowing our builder to be architect, engineer, builder and project manager but we would have a lot of proof as to what went on.

notharrypotter · 19-06-2019 12:04am

Have you consulted a solicitor?

Not someone wet behind the ears but someone who has some experience.

Ginger83 · 19-06-2019 12:19am

notharrypotter wrote: »

Have you consulted a solicitor?

Not someone wet behind the ears but someone who has some experience.

pm'd you

mickdw · 19-06-2019 12:23am

Ginger83 wrote: »

notharrypotter wrote: »

Not in a way that identifies the builder either directly or indirectly.

Did you engage either an engineer or an architect to supervise the project?
Did you have a building contract with the builder?
Who drew the plans.
Did you have a proper tender document listing everything to be provided?

There is a difference between justice and law.

If you wish to pursue the aledged cowboy you must prove that what was done either did not conform with the agreed tender document and or construction agreement.
Or is not in compliance with building regulations.

This will not be cheap.

Unfortunately we made the mistake of allowing our builder to be architect, engineer, builder and project manager but we would have a lot of proof as to what went on.

I'd say walk away. If you didn't specify professionally what was to be done, he will surely just argue that work completed is as agreed.
You only really have a case if the workmanship is clearly defective but even in that case, without professionally produced construction details, it might be hard to nail him down.

Ginger83 · 19-06-2019 12:33am

mickdw wrote: »

I'd say walk away. If you didn't specify professionally what was to be done, he will surely just argue that work completed is as agreed.
You only really have a case if the workmanship is clearly defective but even in that case, without professionally produced construction details, it might be hard to nail him down.

Thermal images show roof left uninsulated, rads fitted 60% too small.

coylemj · 19-06-2019 12:00pm

I suppose some would call him incompetent rather than a cowboy. Did you find him by word of mouth or what made you decide to give him the work?

Ginger83 · 19-06-2019 8:50pm

coylemj wrote: »

I suppose some would call him incompetent rather than a cowboy. Did you find him by word of mouth or what made you decide to give him the work?

He's local, same parish. Didn't think he'd **** on his own doorstep.

Hoboo · 19-06-2019 8:52pm

Don't worry about defamation. Near impossible to prove unless in the public eye/makes headlines and costs a bloody fortune.

Small Wonder · 19-06-2019 8:55pm

coylemj wrote: »

I suppose some would call him incompetent rather than a cowboy.

There's spur marks on the grand piano.

P2C · 19-06-2019 9:17pm

Is he registered?
Did you pay him cash ?
Have you confronted him and what did he say ?
Get a engineer/ building assessor to do a detailed report on the defective workmanship and go to small claims or court

Sleeper12 · 19-06-2019 9:26pm

Ginger83 wrote:

Can i explain to public about our nightmare build

Yelp review, Google review, trustpilot review, Facebook review etc. If he has an online presence you can leave honest reviews

notharrypotter · 19-06-2019 10:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Yelp review, Google review, trustpilot review, Facebook review etc. If he has an online presence you can leave honest reviews

If the OP gets an INDEPENDENT expert to certify the issues and takes a case against the builder and wins then they can post this wherever they want.

Otherwise the builder can legitimately request the above sites to remove the OP,s postings.
Boards.ie would probably operate a similar policy.

The OP needs to take their proofs (post 7) and go to a solicitor to see if there is a case to answer.
The nature and cost of remedial works would have to be qualified.

While many are suggested the small claims procedure unless it's a very small job the cost will be well north of €2000.

There is no independent building control as such in Ireland.

Many people, just like the OP, trust their builder implicitly.
They see the need to hire an Engineer or Architect to oversee the project as an unnecessary waste of money.

Often this works out, but when it doesn't it's a mess.
Remedial work for something that is already constructed can be messy and expensive.

K.Flyer · 19-06-2019 10:42pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

He's local, same parish. Didn't think he'd **** on his own doorstep.

It happens. I know a builder who built a conservatory for his neighbour a few doors down.
There were several inches difference in height from one end to the other resulting in a tilt in all the windows and door frames. It looked terrible.

Ginger83 · 19-06-2019 11:19pm

So i'm ok as long as i can back up what i say?

Ginger83 · 19-06-2019 11:27pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

It happens. I know a builder who built a conservatory for his neighbour a few doors down.
There were several inches difference in height from one end to the other resulting in a tilt in all the windows and door frames. It looked terrible.

Jesus

coylemj · 20-06-2019 10:12am

Ginger83 wrote: »

So i'm ok as long as i can back up what i say?

Depends on how you propose to 'name and shame' him. You can't do it here because the mods will remove his name the minute you post it.

If you want to drop leaflets around the neighbourhood, that's your business. There is a defence to a suit for defamation known as the 'defence of truth' whereby if you stick to facts which can be proved, you have nothing to worry about. The risk in this situation is that you stray into commentary that could be judged to be intemperate or vindictive or not based on objective judgement and that's where you could be exposed.

realdanbreen · 20-06-2019 10:17am

Ginger83 wrote: »

So i'm ok as long as i can back up what i say?

So, what happened?

20-06-2019 10:21am

Ginger83 wrote: »

So i'm ok as long as i can back up what i say?

So long as you are willing to defend your statements in a court case, which is quite a different proposition. You can probably 'back up' a statement like "XXX is incompetent". Can you prove that statement in a court of law?

In a defamation case, the burden of proof is on the person making the statement. The plantiff only has to prove that the statement was made, and that it injured their reputation.

mickdw · 20-06-2019 12:11pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

It happens. I know a builder who built a conservatory for his neighbour a few doors down.
There were several inches difference in height from one end to the other resulting in a tilt in all the windows and door frames. It looked terrible.

You say 'builder' but in that case, they were clearly not. I cannot even grasp how bad or clueless someone would have to be to end up with something like that.

K.Flyer · 20-06-2019 12:34pm

mickdw wrote: »

You say 'builder' but in that case, they were clearly not. I cannot even grasp how bad or clueless someone would have to be to end up with something like that.

Out of curiosity, I checked before posting and he is still in business with a website and reviews etc.
The fault may have been more to do with the people he had working for him and he wasn't keeping a close watch on the detail himself.

BattleCorp · 21-06-2019 3:04pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I checked before posting and he is still in business with a website and reviews etc.
The fault may have been more to do with the people he had working for him and he wasn't keeping a close watch on the detail himself.

He employed them. The buck stops with him.

21-06-2019 6:51pm

Rads too small and roof not insulated?

Did you agree on spec for rads before build and is there regulations on rad size, or is it just guidelines?

In relation to roof insulation, is this a conservatory where plaster board was placed over it and the ceiling plastered?

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-06-2019 7:03pm

Hoboo wrote: »

Don't worry about defamation. Near impossible to prove unless in the public eye/makes headlines and costs a bloody fortune.

LOL

K.Flyer · 21-06-2019 7:22pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Thermal images show roof left uninsulated, rads fitted 60% too small.

What information are you using to say rads are too small?

ganmo · 21-06-2019 9:30pm

Be crafty with your language
Eg would a competent builder do x?

Ginger83 · 22-06-2019 4:13pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Rads too small and roof not insulated?

Did you agree on spec for rads before build and is there regulations on rad size, or is it just guidelines?

In relation to roof insulation, is this a conservatory where plaster board was placed over it and the ceiling plastered?

Rads were way undersized, 1 was 58% too small.

Flat roof left open at wall plate

Ginger83 · 22-06-2019 4:17pm

28064212 wrote: »

So long as you are willing to defend your statements in a court case, which is quite a different proposition. You can probably 'back up' a statement like "XXX is incompetent". Can you prove that statement in a court of law?

In a defamation case, the burden of proof is on the person making the statement. The plantiff only has to prove that the statement was made, and that it injured their reputation.

I am

El Tarangu · 22-06-2019 4:18pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Rads were way undersized, 1 was 58% too small.

Flat roof left open at wall plate

58% smaller than what - legal regulations? Written specs that you supplied him with?

Ginger83 · 22-06-2019 4:26pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

So, what happened?

just made the mistake of allowing a builder to be architect, engineer, builder and project manager. nightmare build left us sleeping in our clothes vat issues and on going problems

Ginger83 · 22-06-2019 4:38pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

58% smaller than what - legal regulations? Written specs that you supplied him with?

58% smaller than the required BTUs for the room.

Plumbers are not regulated here.

Ginger83 · 22-06-2019 4:40pm

ganmo wrote: »

Be crafty with your language
Eg would a competent builder do x?

In what way

K.Flyer · 22-06-2019 5:45pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

58% smaller than the required BTUs for the room.

Plumbers are not regulated here.

Have you not spoken with the installer about the radiators?
Is the boiler correct sized?
Were the space heat requirements calculated Before the radiators were fitted?

If you are going down the legal route regarding the radiators you will need to prove the heating requirement for each space and prove the heat output of each undersized radiator (radiator manufacturer's specifications will be sufficient).
Most likely if it's going to go to court you will need an independent heating engineer who will be able to verify the disparity between rads and requirements.

22-06-2019 6:38pm

Are BTU guides actual regulations and was a spec agreed before build? If there are no regulations on required rad sizes, will you have trouble proving your claim that the builder is a cowboy?

ganmo · 22-06-2019 8:24pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

In what way

Ask pointed questions rather than statements

Ginger83 · 23-06-2019 11:54am

K.Flyer wrote: »

Have you not spoken with the installer about the radiators?
Is the boiler correct sized?
Were the space heat requirements calculated Before the radiators were fitted?

If you are going down the legal route regarding the radiators you will need to prove the heating requirement for each space and prove the heat output of each undersized radiator (radiator manufacturer's specifications will be sufficient).
Most likely if it's going to go to court you will need an independent heating engineer who will be able to verify the disparity between rads and requirements.

Plumber said rads were ample until 3 suppliers said otherwise.

Rads now changed but i want to review builder

Ginger83 · 23-06-2019 11:55am

Dav010 wrote: »

Are BTU guides actual regulations and was a spec agreed before build? If there are no regulations on required rad sizes, will you have trouble proving your claim that the builder is a cowboy?

Incompetent then

Ginger83 · 23-07-2019 3:50pm

How does this sound......

MY NIGHTMARE BUILD

I hope my story helps anyone planning to build to avoid the potential pitfalls when building.

Due to a diagnosis of a terminal illness and with the aid of a grant I employed 'X' to build ground floor accommodation for my needs. Unfortunately the service I was promised was very different to the service I received as I made the mistake of allowing my builder to be architect, engineer, builder and project manager.

Like all jobs problems had to be overcome such as my wife running the electrician's cables for him as I did not want to see metal conduit piping outside on the stone walls of the house. But the most difficult time for me was finding it impossible to heat the rooms. Oil heating, plug in rads and superser heaters together made no difference so while being assured everything was fine I was sleeping in my clothes.

A thermal imaging test showed the roof had been left open, un-insulated between the walls and the roof. I also found out the plumber, 'Y' had fitted radiators way below the recommended sizes for the rooms, 1 in fact was over 50% below.

I was let down badly by the council as this work was meant to be checked, the paperwork was signed to say it was checked but nobody ever inspected it so I urge you please employ your own architect or engineer to over see things, I didn't and paid for it dearly. All issues have now been resolved, the latest being my wetroom floor having to be ripped up 3 years later to direct a radon gas pipe outside that had been floored over.

My experience has been a very poor one of incompetence and I have never received an apology over the way I was treated. I have finally made a settlement with my builder and can move on with what life I have left but asked if I would ever employ or recommend 'X' or 'Y' again I would say absolutely not, not if I desperately needed the space(no pun intended)

Can i name and shame cowboy builder

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