Fueling yourself on the Trial

Jam and peanut butter Sangwiches....

make your own oat bars, put in peanut butter, raisins, nuts, honey.....

Peter T wrote: »

Im planning on doing the blue in ballyhoura saturday

If you have the time and enough in the tank,you could add some of the red up near the turbines,then get back on the blue, might be another 20 min or so of climbing but two nice trails up there with decent flow on them

These things are absolute rocket fuel, gluten free so they are complete sugar-bombs. No gel I have tried comes close
https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/mrs-crimble-s-buttery-oat-flapjack-60021688

ordinary food

used to eat energy bars and drinks

but nowadays for the 3/4 hr Sunday spin I just have water with a little cordial and a good ole ham and cheese sandwich
for less than that don;t need anything

when we go for longer, harder spns usually throw in a banana as well, and of course the 150ml can of coke for emergency resuscitation

One of my mates swears by 2 or 3 cans of bulmers the night before a spin, reckons the sugar keeps him going!
Me, I usually just have a high 5 aqua gel after an hour or so, they maybe another 40 mins later. Then usually a nutri grain type bar after that for some solid food if I'm out longer. Fulfil bar at end of spin if I find them on discount.
Think an energy gel every 20mins wouldn't be great on the insides.

Miklos wrote: »

Forget the protein bars, you need carbs on the ride not protein.

Never underestimate the humble banana!

I was thinking the same. Protein for recovery and fast simple carbs for energy.

smacl wrote: »

Plus they come in there own handy rapidly biodegradable wrapper which is easy to open..

Banana skins take up to 2 years to bio-degrade and are a non-native plant, so stick your skins into your pocket and dispose of it in the organic trash can...

How long is the 20-25k taking you? If you're not pushing into the red zone you shouldn't need anything for a spin of that length, should have more than enough glycogen stores. Keeping the heart rate down over long sessions encourages the metabolism of fat as well.

As for gels, a few jelly babies will give you the same energy for a lot less money if you need a boost.

25k offroad spin with no brekkie or food on the trail, no thanks!

lgk wrote: »

There was no mention of no breakfast before last update. Regardless, if you don't usually have breakfast, 1.5 to 2 hours shouldn't be a problem if you've a decent level of fitness. If you want to go further, check out Enduro's fat adaption approach over in the ultra running thread.

Ok man, going without food for 12 hours isn't for everyone, MTB needs carbs, although 25k on a nice road bike along the seafront is grand....

...and being as fat adapted as Enduro, that's above the level of most MTB'ers or most humans...

lgk wrote: »

MTB burns ~600 calories an hour assuming average weight range. Anyone with even basic pre-fueling who feels they are depleting glycogen stores to the point where they need to refuel during a 25km spin is trying to compensate for lack of fitness through fueling. It doesn't work.

Yep, even if you use 800 cals/hr and are fit and metabolically healthy, you shouldn't need any food, for anything under 2hrs.

A fit male should have circa 2000/2500 cals of glycogen. Even on a hard spin some of the energy used will come from fat and after 2hrs there should still be a glycogen reserve.

You might get all sorts of cues to eat; 20/30/40/50 yrs of throwing food into your job at the slightest hint of hunger will do that. The hardware to go without for a few hours exercise is there and lying idle with most

I'd as mediocre an athlete as you can get and 3hr 50km mtb spin with 1300/1400m fasted isn't an issue. It's hard but gels aren't going to make it easier! Routinely done 150km plus on road at endurance pace.

And an apple is vastly superior to a banana! It won't cook in your jersey and has similar energy.

To OP anything sweet will do, you probably aren't depleted but the sweet taste in mouth will negate whatever "poor me" cue you are getting!

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I'd as mediocre an athlete as you can get and 3hr 50km mtb spin with 1300/1400m fasted isn't an issue.
It's hard but gels aren't going to make it easier! Routinely done 150km plus on road at endurance pace.

No way, 50k MTB on an empty stomach, not a nice feeling if you get the knock halfway into the spin! Or eat the entire fridge when you get home from being so hungry...

Congratulations to you for being able to ride on the road for 150k+ at whatever your endurance pace is i would guess 150k takes around 7 hours...with no food, again, No Thanks!

Personally, from hard experience, I would not go out for a two-hour spin unless I had eaten and slept correctly. Maybe I'd get away with it, but there's just so much that can go wrong on a MTB spin, that anything that takes away from your performance, such as lack of sleep or lack of energy are just going to increase the risk of accident.

lgk wrote: »

Who said 3 hours? If we're still talking about doing that 25km loop, any nutritionist who suggests you need re-fueling during an easy 3 hours doesn't know what they're talking about.

Large bottle small glass said the following,

"I'd as mediocre an athlete as you can get and 3hr 50km mtb spin with 1300/1400m fasted isn't an issue. It's hard but gels aren't going to make it easier! Routinely done 150km plus on road at endurance pace"

If not refueling in that time frame works for you, then fair play, but the vast majority will need something. Just don't think it's a good idea to be advising people that its the norm.

prunudo wrote: »

Large bottle small glass said the following,

"I'd as mediocre an athlete as you can get and 3hr 50km mtb spin with 1300/1400m fasted isn't an issue. It's hard but gels aren't going to make it easier! Routinely done 150km plus on road at endurance pace"

If not refueling in that time frame works for you, then fair play, but the vast majority will need something. Just don't think it's a good idea to be advising people that its the norm.

I said why I did, I didn't say you are anyone else should do it in the morning.

In the context of the proposition that there is something unique about mtb riding that needs constant refueling I was pointing out what an average non elite rider can do.

Can we use up with the performance stuff to. With no disrespect I take it OP is plodding around Ballyhoura for a spin and not racing.

When ye ease up on the strawmen, critique the numbers I posted in the context of a 2 hrs mtb spin.

Assuming OP isn't suffering from metabolic disease, is reasonable fit where is his glycogen going?

You may feel like something, you may feel better after it but assuming the above you are not glycogen depleted after 1 or 2hrs.

lgk wrote: »

It's all about pacing and heart rate. If you keep out of your anaerobic zone, then every normal person will have more than enough energy within their glycogen stores to manage 2-3 hours without any problem. If you're pushing harder than your fitness levels allow and into anaerobic metabolism, then refueling might give you a psychological boost, but won't do much for energy levels or the lactic acid you're building up.

I don't know what your experience of MTB'ing is, i'm guessing not as much as a lot of MTB'ers on here...

MTB Off road spins aren't like road biking, where it's possible to keep in the Aerobic zone much easier and train within a certain power band if you have a PM.


However, MTB Offroad spins require short and longer bursts of energy into a high heart rate zone, and uses your upper body more than road biking, i.e. clearing obstacles, technical terrain, short sharp kickers up a steep hillside or single track, more drag on heavier tyres with a heavier bicycle whilst climbing means it can be very difficult to keep a low HR unless on smoother more gradual fireroads etc... If you look at the power read out of a MTB'er it's a lot like the terrain of a mountain range, plenty of peaks and dips...

prunudo wrote: »

I was starting to wonder was I doing it all wrong, my heart rate can get as high in the decents as it can on a hard climb.

Of course, unless it's a smooth enough downhill trall then you're dealing with rocks, roots, obstacles and sudden changes in terrain, as well as getting back up to speed after taking a sharp corner, and keeping a 13kg or so bike in line, plenty to get the HR out of the aerobic zone...

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Of course, unless it's a smooth enough downhill trall then you're dealing with rocks, roots, obstacles and sudden changes in terrain, as well as getting back up to speed after taking a sharp corner, and keeping a 13kg or so bike in line, plenty to get the HR out of the aerobic zone...

That all very interesting but what happens the 2000-2500 cals of glycogen in a 25km 2hr spin?

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2016/09/do-blood-glucose-levels-affect-hunger.html?m=1

You might feel like food, it might give you a boost but there probably is no energy crisis.

I've rarely seen any agreement on nutrition in any context.

My advice is water, water and more water. Start getting well hydrated the day before. I don't use gels etc - they don't agree with me but obviously there is a huge market for them.

Glad I read this thread - didn't realise a banana skin took 2 years to decompose. Good to know.

steamsey wrote: »

I've rarely seen any agreement on nutrition in any context.
My advice is water, water and more water. Start getting well hydrated the day before. I don't use gels etc - they don't agree with me but obviously there is a huge market for them..

Ha! True, sure everyone is an expert!

Bottom line is I wouldn't advise anyone to go for a 25km/3 hour off-road MTB spin without some food in there bellies, some Banana's and oatey type bars in there back pockets...

Gels are for racing only, or if you have gone out on a spin with someone who had no brekky and has no food with them so got the knock and need carbs quick! :pac: