Did you know it was National Famine Commemoration Day today?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 11-05-2014 8:25pm

Lapin wrote: »

This is quite possibly one of the most idiotic pieces of shíte I have ever read anywhere.

Yet another moronic comment from the 800 years of misery and woe victim brigade.

I'm glad our Taoiseach didn't embarrass us by bringing up such pointless drivel.

If you were awake in 1997 you got your apology then. What more do you want?

Quit prostituting the dignity of genuine Irish people for your own petty slice of bitter gratification.

Get over it FFS and join the 21st century.

I bet your high horse would have been a tasty treat in famine times.

My name is URL · 11-05-2014 8:26pm

bumper234 wrote: »

The deliberate murder of people with the intent of wiping out an entire race is slightly different to people starving over a potato blight.

Look.. ffs.

Blaming potato blight for the death of a million people on an island this small, and as part of a friggin' 'empire', is like blaming fire for the death of all those Jews.

dirtyden · 11-05-2014 8:26pm

bumper234 wrote: »

The deliberate murder of people with the intent of wiping out an entire race is slightly different to people starving over a potato blight.

People being allowed/forced to starve, whilst the plentiful food in the nation was stolen. It is not far from deliberate murder, it is not just that the ruling powers looked away they continued a policy of stripping the agricultural produce of the nation whilst hundreds of thousands starved to death.

It was not a deliberate attempt to wipe out a race you are correct there, but it was not as simple as just potato blight.

Richard Hillman · 11-05-2014 8:26pm

wazky wrote: »

How many years ago was WW2?, is it ok to start telling jokes about gassing Jews now?

In about 50 to 100 years time I am sure it will be.

Karl Stein · 11-05-2014 8:31pm

bumper234 wrote: »

The deliberate murder of people with the intent of wiping out an entire race is slightly different to people starving over a potato blight.

The famine victims didn't perish for lack of food, oh and the starvation was met with quite a bit of quasi-genocidal, racist, glee by those who had the power to ameliorate it.

The great evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people. (Charles Trevelyan, December 1846)

Before our merciful intervention, the Irish nation were a wretched, indolent, half-starved tribe of savages, ages before Julius Caesar landed on this isle, and that, notwithstanding a gradual improvement upon the naked savagery, they have never approached the standard of the civilized world. (The Times, January 1847)

RobertKK · 11-05-2014 8:34pm

The famine was caused by the Whig government believing one should not interfere in the market, it was cruel as Ireland was a net exporter of food during a famine.
This is not how our government at the time should have acted, so one then can look and see was if it was deliberate, some of the things said at the time would point to it being deliberate.
A few decades later the British empire had mass starvation in parts of India where millions also died.

Tony Blair in 1997 apologised for the role of the British government in the famine.

Crann na Beatha · 11-05-2014 8:34pm

This post has been deleted.

mr_edge_to_you · 11-05-2014 8:35pm

Going to mark the day by having a Singapore Fried Rice.

Rice won't let ya down.

Precious flower · 11-05-2014 8:40pm

William F wrote: »

I only heard it was National Famine Commemoration Day today when I listened to the 5 o’clock news and heard Enda Kenny giving a speech at Strokestown, Co. Roscommon.

Kenny mentioned in his speech that ‘’…Irish people have a particular empathy with those suffering the effects of hunger in the world today’’ but yet didn’t mention anything about Britain’s policies which contributed to the mass scale starvation, land clearances and deaths of millions of Irish people.

Again another day of national significance passes by without the Irish public been made aware of it and essentially given a whitewashed history of events. I had no idea it was today and like the 1916 Rising Commemoration, I think this commemoration is deliberately played down.

I see Jewish people have no hesitations with commemorating the Holocaust in case they upset the Germans but we Irish pretend as though the Irish Famine/Genocide never happened just in case we sour Anglo-Irish relations.

I think John Mitchell summed up the ‘Famine’ in these words ‘’God sent the blight but the English made the Famine.’’

Perhaps Kenny should of remarked on the impact of colonialism on Ireland and not hunger. There seems to be some confusion there that needs some deciphering!

I think commemorating the famine today is just more to highlight hunger issues in other countries. I don't think it's meant to be played down I just think that it was so long ago that people roughly know what happened and have moved on. The Holocaust memorials are more about highlighting the fact that should never have happened and should never happen again, just like famine should not be allowed to happen in the 21st century.
It of course should be remembered but it also should be remembered that it wasn't all ''the brits' fault.

It was a mixture of bad policy, aggressive and poor policies by landlords (not all the landlords were bad either) that caused people to split up land into tiny plots and made them rely on a single crop, a single variety of that crop and just mother nature getting crappy and poverty making everything worse making the spread of disease (which most people were killed by, not starvation), so much easier. It's stupid to put a majority of blame on the British government.

A lot of those in government were appalled at the landlord system in Ireland due to there lack of care towards their tenants which was more the system in England. I'm not saying the British are blame free by any means, I just hate those people that lump all the blame on the British government.

woodoo · 11-05-2014 8:43pm

bumper234 wrote: »

The deliberate murder of people with the intent of wiping out an entire race is slightly different to people starving over a potato blight.

You have just been indoctrinated.. told what is unacceptable to joke about and what is not. Holocaust - not acceptable... starvation of millions of Irish - fine. You've absorbed it all.

wazky · 11-05-2014 8:45pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In about 50 to 100 years time I am sure it will be.

This probably sums up some posters level of maturity and intelligence here.

Low.

Atlantic Dawn · 11-05-2014 8:47pm

Precious flower wrote: »

I think commemorating the famine today is just more to highlight hunger issues in other countries. I don't think it's meant to be played down I just think that it was so long ago that people roughly know what happened and have moved on.

There's countries since the 70's and 80's have had famine and starvation yet still have 8 or 10 kids a family on land that is completely baron and unfit for human survival and forever will be yet we are providing financial assistance and aid to people for 50 or 60 years who insist on having this many kids is crazy without encouraging family planning or sterilisation while they live in this region, the Chinese system of 1 family 1 kid seriously needs to be inforced in these regions.

Greenmachine · 11-05-2014 8:48pm

I had no idea.

Birneybau · 11-05-2014 9:00pm

I've eaten way more than usual so maybe subconsciously.

My name is URL · 11-05-2014 9:01pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

the Chinese system of 1 family 1 kid seriously needs to be inforced in these regions.

Instead of having women dragged from their beds screaming, and their unborn children forcibly removed and thrown in a bin.. maybe people could be better educated?

Or is that too extreme?

Atlantic Dawn · 11-05-2014 9:11pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Instead of having women dragged from their beds screaming, and their unborn children forcibly removed and thrown in a bin.. maybe people could be better educated?

Or is that too extreme?

That's exactly what they need, the witchcraft bollixoligy that some of the uneducated idiots believe in with their sh1te quality rubbish picture quality 1985 phones trying to broadcast a message globally is what lets them down.

bumper234 · 11-05-2014 9:13pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

That's exactly what they need, the witchcraft bollixoligy that some of the uneducated idiots believe in with their sh1te quality rubbish picture quality 1985 phones trying to broadcast a message globally is what lets them down.

more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.

Atlantic Dawn · 11-05-2014 9:17pm

bumper234 wrote: »

more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.

Exactly, spending millions telling them what prayers to say of an evening for a sunday lunch when their 10 kids are starving yet failing to tell them to put a rubber on their willy.

Banjoxed · 11-05-2014 9:18pm

A national day of commemoration for the famine. Jebus.

I imagine the participants went off and had a big fead afterwards.

tomwaterford · 11-05-2014 9:21pm

RobertKK wrote: »

The famine was caused by the Whig government believing one should not interfere in the market, it was cruel as Ireland was a net exporter of food during a famine.
This is not how our government at the time should have acted, so one then can look and see was if it was deliberate, some of the things said at the time would point to it being deliberate.
A few decades later the British empire had mass starvation in parts of India where millions also died.

Tony Blair in 1997 apologised for the role of the British government in the famine.

the irish famine was almost unique in that it went on for so long 4+ years

it was a shortage of food in britin that caused it...the industrial revolution in britin put it in a better to buy the food from Ireland...people hadn't the money to buy food...as after the first two years...a lot had everything pawned,ate the seed ppotatoes and couldn't afford to emigrate

there should have been a ban on food exports...a few landlords going broke/having to be compensated is preferable to a million+ straving to death

my grandfather used to tell stories that he heard growing up from people who survived the famine and I would be in a part of country that wasn't even the worst affected in the country

dirtyden · 11-05-2014 9:30pm

bumper234 wrote: »

more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours

My name is URL · 11-05-2014 9:30pm

For the first time in ever I seriously feel like closing my account here. Horrible and generalised statements are openly allowed once they involve Irish people or Irish history/heritage... but it's insta-bans for those that say a particular woman isn't fit for a particular role.

Place has gone to absolute shit.

edit: people can't even get their quotes straight

tomwaterford · 11-05-2014 9:32pm

dirtyden wrote: »

bumper234 wrote: »

more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours

esp since large parts of Africa are muslim

bumper234 · 11-05-2014 9:33pm

dirtyden wrote: »

bumper234 wrote: »

more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours

Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.

dirtyden · 11-05-2014 9:37pm

bumper234 wrote: »

dirtyden wrote: »

Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.

Your on a thread about the irish famine intimating that it was potato blight and the catholic church that were the underlying problems.

bumper234 · 11-05-2014 9:40pm

dirtyden wrote: »

bumper234 wrote: »

Your on a thread about the irish famine intimating that it was potato blight and the catholic church that were the underlying problems.

The potato blight WAS a mitigating factor of the Irish famine!

I never mentioned the catholic church having anything to do with the Irish famine, the catholic church are mentioned due to the famines in African nations where a poster said they have no food but still pop out 8/9 kids.

crockholm · 11-05-2014 9:43pm

bumper234 wrote: »

dirtyden wrote: »

Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.

Italy too,how's that working out for them? The countries with the largest families tend to be muslim also (Niger,Mali,Somalia).

But do continue,I do enjoy your more "headless chicken" posts:)

dirtyden · 11-05-2014 9:55pm

bumper234 wrote: »

dirtyden wrote: »

The potato blight WAS a mitigating factor of the Irish famine!

I never mentioned the catholic church having anything to do with the Irish famine, the catholic church are mentioned due to the famines in African nations where a poster said they have no food but still pop out 8/9 kids.

No its attitudes like that which allow famines to happen. Blaming the victims for having too many kids or only eating potatoes, and ignoring the actual reasons.

Frank Lee Midere · 11-05-2014 10:03pm

The problem with the claim that Catholicism causes population increases in sub- Saharan Africa is that sub- Saharan Africa is not very catholic. Most of the East and South are British colonies. In fact AIDS is concentrated in ex British colonies.

The whitewashing of the British empire continues.

windy shepard henderson · 11-05-2014 10:06pm

i sopose it might offend the neighbors if we had a full remembrance day and like everything else nowadays we must look good to the international community no matter what

personally i think its an absolute disgrace that there was no promotion what so ever , and hats off to anyone who created or attended an event today to mark the genocide

there was more talk of the bloody giro d'italia a sporting event that know one watches anyway then there was of this , i think its completely wrong

sillyoulfool · 11-05-2014 10:12pm

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

personally i think its an absolute disgrace that there was no promotion what so ever , and hats off to anyone who created or attended an event today to mark the genocide

There was no genocide.
What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

tomwaterford · 11-05-2014 10:16pm

sillyoulfool wrote: »

There was no genocide.
What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

In 1996, Francis A. Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, wrote a report commissioned by the New York-based Irish Famine/Genocide Committee, which concluded that the British government deliberately pursued a race and ethnicity-based policy aimed at destroying the group commonly known as the Irish people and that the policy of mass starvation amounted to genocide per the Hague convention of 1948. On the strength of Boyle's report, the US state of New Jersey included the famine in the "Holocaust and Genocide Curriculum" at the secondary tier.

Rhys Essien · 11-05-2014 10:19pm

sillyoulfool wrote: »

There was no genocide.
What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

Wake up,will ya.Do a small bit of research.

WoollyRedHat · 11-05-2014 10:19pm

Lapin wrote: »

If you were awake in 1997 you got your apology then. What more do you want?

The irony there is the apology came from a man whom little over 6 years later would commit great crimes in the name of Britain on another country.

It's quite amazing the amount of blasé attitudes present in this thread in one of the most tragic pieces of Irish history which still has resonance today.

Such ignorance is the failure of the education system in part I'd argue, does the secondary school curriculum address the history of the famine in detail, or is it simply a footnote? I really don't remember learning about it in school.

Irish history and how it is taught on the national curriculum should be reconsidered.

sillyoulfool · 11-05-2014 10:20pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

In 1996, Francis A. Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, wrote a report commissioned by the New York-based Irish Famine/Genocide Committee, which concluded that the British government deliberately pursued a race and ethnicity-based policy aimed at destroying the group commonly known as the Irish people and that the policy of mass starvation amounted to genocide per the Hague convention of 1948. On the strength of Boyle's report, the US state of New Jersey included the famine in the "Holocaust and Genocide Curriculum" at the secondary tier.

He was paid to write a book by a campaign group which wanted a particular finding (The hint is in their name) hardly compelling or independent evidence of an attempted genocide!

windy shepard henderson · 11-05-2014 10:20pm

sillyoulfool wrote: »

There was no genocide.
What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

wrong choice of words maybe but nothing from the part of the ruling british government was done to avoid the consequences, so it makes me think they were happy to watch people suffer and die for not falling into line with there plans

The Backwards Man · 11-05-2014 10:25pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

The irony there is the apology came from a man whom little over 6 years later would commit great crimes in the name of Britain on another country.

It's quite amazing the amount of blasé attitudes present in this thread in one of the most tragic pieces of Irish history which still has resonance today.

Such ignorance is the failure of the education system in part I'd argue, does the secondary school curriculum address the history of the famine in detail, or is it simply a footnote? I really don't remember learning about it in school.

I think the problem is that there seems to be only two approaches to teaching about the famine (it was a famine, sorry lads). It was either the 800 year oppressing murdering British scumbags fault, or it was the stupid brehon law following ignorant overbreeding paddies' fault. The reality is both viewpoints are balls, and as with everything, it was a lot more complicated than that.

tomwaterford · 11-05-2014 10:27pm

sillyoulfool wrote: »

He was paid to write a book by a campaign group which wanted a particular finding (The hint is in their name) hardly compelling or independent evidence of an attempted genocide!

bit more up todate

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/proving-the-irish-famine-was-genocide-by-the-british-tim-pat-coogan-moves-famine-history-unto-a-new-plane-181984471-238161151.html#ixzz2EG9HspXD

WoollyRedHat · 11-05-2014 10:30pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I think the problem is that there seems to be only two approaches to teaching about the famine (it was a famine, sorry lads). It was either the 800 year oppressing murdering scumbags fault, or it was the stupid brehon law following ignorant overbreeding paddies' fault. The reality is both viewpoints are balls, and as with everything, it was a lot more complicated than that.

It's the same for many aspects of history, things are often simplified and given an overbearing bias through a constructed narrative, which denies history true veracity.

The incorporation of several strands of histiography and discussion would help change this.

LordSutch · 11-05-2014 10:35pm

Einhard wrote: »

I often wonder how those who decry the push for independence represented by 1916 and 1921 fail to remember how the British behaved towards their oldest and closest colony at that time.

"The British" I presume were the Westminster government of the day (mid 1800s), and it goes without saying that their handling of the crisis in the Ireland of that time leaves a lot to be desired to say the least, although as we know that famine was a complicated event in Irish history wherby nearly everything that could go wrong went wrong at the same time. Serious potato blight for several years in a row, massive outbreak of cholera, unscrupulous landlords, and a government removed from the reality of the disaster, all of which contributed to the million deaths. I would never blame "the British" though, as that would be totally misleading . . . .

Regarding the colony comment, Ireland has never been seen as a colony by Britain, primarily because of Irelands proximity to Britain, and also because of the deep ties that have run deep for thousands of years between the two closely knit islands. Nowadays we like to see ourselves as an ex colony of the British empire, but at the time of the famine Ireland was much much closer to Britain than just some far flung colony.

Nodin · 11-05-2014 11:07pm

LordSutch wrote: »

"The British" I presume were the Westminster government of the day (mid 1800s), and it goes without saying that their handling of the crisis in the Ireland of that time leaves a lot to be desired to say the least, although as we know that famine was a complicated event in Irish history wherby nearly everything that could go wrong went wrong at the same time. Serious potato blight for several years in a row, massive outbreak of cholera, unscrupulous landlords, and a government removed from the reality of the disaster, all of which contributed to the million deaths. I would never blame "the British" though, as that would be totally misleading . . . .

....................

http://www.pars.com/pictures/parsman173/shocked-dog.jpg

woodoo · 11-05-2014 11:12pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I think the problem is that there seems to be only two approaches to teaching about the famine (it was a famine, sorry lads). It was either the 800 year oppressing murdering British scumbags fault, or it was the stupid brehon law following ignorant overbreeding paddies' fault. The reality is both viewpoints are balls, and as with everything, it was a lot more complicated than that.

I am going to disagree with your overbreeding paddies point as there was plenty of food around. But if you think of even today's Ireland. The people who would be exporting food would still export it as that's what capitalism is all about. The government may intervene but it wouldn't be at the expense of the money men. They would still export their product. I think the British just used the blight to its advantage and didn't bother too much with saving the Catholic Irish. It wasn't by design but they weren't too bothered about us once it started happening.

Karl Stein · 11-05-2014 11:20pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Regarding the colony comment, Ireland has never been seen as a colony by Britain

Bull.
Shit.

closely knit islands.

Lol,

at the time of the famine Ireland was much much closer to Britain than just some far flung colony.

To Ireland's lethal detriment and Britain's benefit.

To Ireland, I. Our separated fortune shall keep us both the safer. Where we are,
there’s daggers in men’s smiles. The near in blood, the nearer bloody.

Son Of A Vidic · 11-05-2014 11:24pm

sillyoulfool wrote: »

I stand over my posts , the truth (complex though it is) is ....

Something you clearly haven't a clue about.

Son Of A Vidic · 11-05-2014 11:31pm

LordSutch wrote: »

at the time of the famine Ireland was much much closer to Britain than just some far flung colony.

Ah yes, the good old days. And the Irish slave colony set up in Montserrat by our dear old friends during the 1700s. Was obviously a packaged sun holiday that went terribly wrong.

Frank Lee Midere · 11-05-2014 11:32pm

LordSutch wrote: »

"The British" I presume were the Westminster government of the day (mid 1800s), and it goes without saying that their handling of the crisis in the Ireland of that time leaves a lot to be desired to say the least, although as we know that famine was a complicated event in Irish history wherby nearly everything that could go wrong went wrong at the same time. Serious potato blight for several years in a row, massive outbreak of cholera, unscrupulous landlords, and a government removed from the reality of the disaster, all of which contributed to the million deaths. I would never blame "the British" though, as that would be totally misleading . . . .

Regarding the colony comment, Ireland has never been seen as a colony by Britain, primarily because of Irelands proximity to Britain, and also because of the deep ties that have run deep for thousands of years between the two closely knit islands. Nowadays we like to see ourselves as an ex colony of the British empire, but at the time of the famine Ireland was much much closer to Britain than just some far flung colony.

Ireland was definitely a colony. I mean it was run from London and planted with colonialists ( north and South) who took all the land while the local population had - for most if it's history - no political rights

When did distance matter? France is close to Algeria.

Rhys Essien · 11-05-2014 11:50pm

Definition of Famine - extreme and general scarcity of food.What happened here was not a famine and it is shameful of our government to still accept that term.
It suits the British government to label it that.

Take a look here as to what was exported at the time.

http://www.div8aoh.com/FamineFacts.html

Shakespeare's Sister · 11-05-2014 11:51pm

I really have no interest in blaming the British establishment because it wasn't as simple as that (not that I agree with the bizarre claim from that person who said "The Irish were just as to blame"

) however the dismissal of such a terrible episode, e.g. the below imbecilic comment:

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Nope.. Don't really care neither... A few spuds went bad people died.. There's a bag of potatoes here that's gone bad, someone's died today, what's the difference?

What's that about? Does it make some Irish people feel sorta... sophisticated for eschewing anything that might (oh the horror! :eek:) betray a vague hint of having an affinity for their Irishness? I don't mean lack of interest, which is fair enough - I'm referring to the unnecessary sneering.

My name is URL wrote: »

Horrible and generalised statements are openly allowed once they involve Irish people or Irish history/heritage... but it's insta-bans for those that say a particular woman isn't fit for a particular role.

Well said.

que pasa · 12-05-2014 12:15am

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Definition of Famine - extreme and general scarcity of food.What happened here was not a famine and it is shameful of our government to still accept that term.
It suits the British government to label it that.

Take a look here as to what was exported at the time.

http://www.div8aoh.com/FamineFacts.html

I agree. Ireland should take the same approach as Germany does with Holocaust deniers.

donvito99 · 12-05-2014 1:33am

I always think of Eavan Boland's poem from the Leaving Cert w/ regards to the famine and Trevelyan.

…this Tuesday I saw bones
out of my carriage window

…we march the corn
to the ships in peace;

It has gone better than we expected, Lord
Trevelyan, sedition, idleness, cured
in one; from parish to parish, field to field,
the wretches work till they are quite worn,
then fester by their work;

Did you know it was National Famine Commemoration Day today?

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