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Did you know it was National Famine Commemoration Day today?

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13

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    #62
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    In about 50 to 100 years time I am sure it will be.

    This probably sums up some posters level of maturity and intelligence here.

    Low.


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    #63
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,645 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Precious flower wrote: »
    I think commemorating the famine today is just more to highlight hunger issues in other countries. I don't think it's meant to be played down I just think that it was so long ago that people roughly know what happened and have moved on.

    There's countries since the 70's and 80's have had famine and starvation yet still have 8 or 10 kids a family on land that is completely baron and unfit for human survival and forever will be yet we are providing financial assistance and aid to people for 50 or 60 years who insist on having this many kids is crazy without encouraging family planning or sterilisation while they live in this region, the Chinese system of 1 family 1 kid seriously needs to be inforced in these regions.


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    #64
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    I had no idea.


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    #65
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,237 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    I've eaten way more than usual so maybe subconsciously.


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    #66
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    the Chinese system of 1 family 1 kid seriously needs to be inforced in these regions.

    Instead of having women dragged from their beds screaming, and their unborn children forcibly removed and thrown in a bin.. maybe people could be better educated?

    Or is that too extreme?


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    #67
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,645 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Instead of having women dragged from their beds screaming, and their unborn children forcibly removed and thrown in a bin.. maybe people could be better educated?

    Or is that too extreme?

    That's exactly what they need, the witchcraft bollixoligy that some of the uneducated idiots believe in with their sh1te quality rubbish picture quality 1985 phones trying to broadcast a message globally is what lets them down.


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    #68
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    That's exactly what they need, the witchcraft bollixoligy that some of the uneducated idiots believe in with their sh1te quality rubbish picture quality 1985 phones trying to broadcast a message globally is what lets them down.

    more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.


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    #69
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,645 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    bumper234 wrote: »
    more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.

    Exactly, spending millions telling them what prayers to say of an evening for a sunday lunch when their 10 kids are starving yet failing to tell them to put a rubber on their willy.


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    #70
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    A national day of commemoration for the famine. Jebus.

    I imagine the participants went off and had a big fead afterwards.


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    #71
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The famine was caused by the Whig government believing one should not interfere in the market, it was cruel as Ireland was a net exporter of food during a famine.
    This is not how our government at the time should have acted, so one then can look and see was if it was deliberate, some of the things said at the time would point to it being deliberate.
    A few decades later the British empire had mass starvation in parts of India where millions also died.

    Tony Blair in 1997 apologised for the role of the British government in the famine.


    the irish famine was almost unique in that it went on for so long 4+ years

    it was a shortage of food in britin that caused it...the industrial revolution in britin put it in a better to buy the food from Ireland...people hadn't the money to buy food...as after the first two years...a lot had everything pawned,ate the seed ppotatoes and couldn't afford to emigrate

    there should have been a ban on food exports...a few landlords going broke/having to be compensated is preferable to a million+ straving to death

    my grandfather used to tell stories that he heard growing up from people who survived the famine and I would be in a part of country that wasn't even the worst affected in the country


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    #72
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    bumper234 wrote: »
    more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

    Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours


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    #73
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    For the first time in ever I seriously feel like closing my account here. Horrible and generalised statements are openly allowed once they involve Irish people or Irish history/heritage... but it's insta-bans for those that say a particular woman isn't fit for a particular role.

    Place has gone to absolute shit.

    edit: people can't even get their quotes straight :(


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    #74
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    dirtyden wrote: »
    bumper234 wrote: »
    more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

    Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours

    esp since large parts of Africa are muslim


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    #75
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    dirtyden wrote: »
    bumper234 wrote: »
    more likely to be the catholic church telling them all that contraception is evil and if they use a condom they will go to hell.[/QUOTE

    Subtlety on your agenda in this trend is not a strong point of yours

    Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.


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    #76
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    bumper234 wrote: »
    dirtyden wrote: »

    Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.

    Your on a thread about the irish famine intimating that it was potato blight and the catholic church that were the underlying problems.


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    #77
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    dirtyden wrote: »
    bumper234 wrote: »

    Your on a thread about the irish famine intimating that it was potato blight and the catholic church that were the underlying problems.

    The potato blight WAS a mitigating factor of the Irish famine!

    I never mentioned the catholic church having anything to do with the Irish famine, the catholic church are mentioned due to the famines in African nations where a poster said they have no food but still pop out 8/9 kids.


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    #78
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    dirtyden wrote: »

    Who is being subtle? It's a well known fact that the catholic church actively tries to stop the use of condoms in Africa.
    Italy too,how's that working out for them? The countries with the largest families tend to be muslim also (Niger,Mali,Somalia).

    But do continue,I do enjoy your more "headless chicken" posts:)


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    #79
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    bumper234 wrote: »
    dirtyden wrote: »

    The potato blight WAS a mitigating factor of the Irish famine!

    I never mentioned the catholic church having anything to do with the Irish famine, the catholic church are mentioned due to the famines in African nations where a poster said they have no food but still pop out 8/9 kids.

    No its attitudes like that which allow famines to happen. Blaming the victims for having too many kids or only eating potatoes, and ignoring the actual reasons.


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    #80
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    The problem with the claim that Catholicism causes population increases in sub- Saharan Africa is that sub- Saharan Africa is not very catholic. Most of the East and South are British colonies. In fact AIDS is concentrated in ex British colonies.

    The whitewashing of the British empire continues.


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    #81
    windy shepard henderson
    Registered Users Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    i sopose it might offend the neighbors if we had a full remembrance day and like everything else nowadays we must look good to the international community no matter what

    personally i think its an absolute disgrace that there was no promotion what so ever , and hats off to anyone who created or attended an event today to mark the genocide

    there was more talk of the bloody giro d'italia a sporting event that know one watches anyway then there was of this , i think its completely wrong


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    #82
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    windy shepard henderson wrote: »
    personally i think its an absolute disgrace that there was no promotion what so ever , and hats off to anyone who created or attended an event today to mark the genocide
    There was no genocide.
    What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.


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    #83
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    There was no genocide.
    What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

    In 1996, Francis A. Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, wrote a report commissioned by the New York-based Irish Famine/Genocide Committee, which concluded that the British government deliberately pursued a race and ethnicity-based policy aimed at destroying the group commonly known as the Irish people and that the policy of mass starvation amounted to genocide per the Hague convention of 1948. On the strength of Boyle's report, the US state of New Jersey included the famine in the "Holocaust and Genocide Curriculum" at the secondary tier.


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    #84
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    There was no genocide.
    What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

    Wake up,will ya.Do a small bit of research.


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    #85
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    Lapin wrote: »
    If you were awake in 1997 you got your apology then. What more do you want?


    The irony there is the apology came from a man whom little over 6 years later would commit great crimes in the name of Britain on another country.

    It's quite amazing the amount of blasé attitudes present in this thread in one of the most tragic pieces of Irish history which still has resonance today.

    Such ignorance is the failure of the education system in part I'd argue, does the secondary school curriculum address the history of the famine in detail, or is it simply a footnote? I really don't remember learning about it in school.

    Irish history and how it is taught on the national curriculum should be reconsidered.


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    #86
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    In 1996, Francis A. Boyle, a law professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, wrote a report commissioned by the New York-based Irish Famine/Genocide Committee, which concluded that the British government deliberately pursued a race and ethnicity-based policy aimed at destroying the group commonly known as the Irish people and that the policy of mass starvation amounted to genocide per the Hague convention of 1948. On the strength of Boyle's report, the US state of New Jersey included the famine in the "Holocaust and Genocide Curriculum" at the secondary tier.

    He was paid to write a book by a campaign group which wanted a particular finding (The hint is in their name) hardly compelling or independent evidence of an attempted genocide!


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    #87
    windy shepard henderson
    Registered Users Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    There was no genocide.
    What happened was atrocious, what happened was avoidable, but what happened was not genocide, nor attempted genocide.

    wrong choice of words maybe but nothing from the part of the ruling british government was done to avoid the consequences, so it makes me think they were happy to watch people suffer and die for not falling into line with there plans


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    #88
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    The irony there is the apology came from a man whom little over 6 years later would commit great crimes in the name of Britain on another country.

    It's quite amazing the amount of blasé attitudes present in this thread in one of the most tragic pieces of Irish history which still has resonance today.

    Such ignorance is the failure of the education system in part I'd argue, does the secondary school curriculum address the history of the famine in detail, or is it simply a footnote? I really don't remember learning about it in school.

    I think the problem is that there seems to be only two approaches to teaching about the famine (it was a famine, sorry lads). It was either the 800 year oppressing murdering British scumbags fault, or it was the stupid brehon law following ignorant overbreeding paddies' fault. The reality is both viewpoints are balls, and as with everything, it was a lot more complicated than that.


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    #89
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    He was paid to write a book by a campaign group which wanted a particular finding (The hint is in their name) hardly compelling or independent evidence of an attempted genocide!

    bit more up todate

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/proving-the-irish-famine-was-genocide-by-the-british-tim-pat-coogan-moves-famine-history-unto-a-new-plane-181984471-238161151.html#ixzz2EG9HspXD


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    #90
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    I think the problem is that there seems to be only two approaches to teaching about the famine (it was a famine, sorry lads). It was either the 800 year oppressing murdering scumbags fault, or it was the stupid brehon law following ignorant overbreeding paddies' fault. The reality is both viewpoints are balls, and as with everything, it was a lot more complicated than that.

    It's the same for many aspects of history, things are often simplified and given an overbearing bias through a constructed narrative, which denies history true veracity.

    The incorporation of several strands of histiography and discussion would help change this.


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    #91
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Einhard wrote: »
    I often wonder how those who decry the push for independence represented by 1916 and 1921 fail to remember how the British behaved towards their oldest and closest colony at that time.

    "The British" I presume were the Westminster government of the day (mid 1800s), and it goes without saying that their handling of the crisis in the Ireland of that time leaves a lot to be desired to say the least, although as we know that famine was a complicated event in Irish history wherby nearly everything that could go wrong went wrong at the same time. Serious potato blight for several years in a row, massive outbreak of cholera, unscrupulous landlords, and a government removed from the reality of the disaster, all of which contributed to the million deaths. I would never blame "the British" though, as that would be totally misleading . . . .

    Regarding the colony comment, Ireland has never been seen as a colony by Britain, primarily because of Irelands proximity to Britain, and also because of the deep ties that have run deep for thousands of years between the two closely knit islands. Nowadays we like to see ourselves as an ex colony of the British empire, but at the time of the famine Ireland was much much closer to Britain than just some far flung colony.


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