Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

US justice system in Ireland

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Agree with most of your post except the death penalty for cop killers. Why is cops life more important than a regular citizen? Are they superior human beings so their life is more valuable?

    It's not that a cops life is more important than anyone else. It's that police are responsible for maintaining law and order. In Ireland this is done, at least in theory, by the consent of the people. That is why Gardaí are not routinely armed. The Garda is a symbol of the will of the people. If a criminal is prepared to use lethal force against a Garda while on duty then they are considered to be more dangerous than a person who murders a non-garda because they have decided they have not only decided to break the law and kill someone but have also shown they will resist the will of the people to the utmost level.


  • Options
    #33
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,161 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Johnboner wrote: »
    Agree with most of your post except the death penalty for cop killers. Why is cops life more important than a regular citizen? Are they superior human beings so their life is more valuable?

    If your serious about preventing crime, drugs, gangland crime etc. The police need to be untouchable.


  • Options
    #34
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,497 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So basically you'd have to withdraw from the EU

    Irexit (or whatever crap name the press would give it)
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    withdraw from the Convention on Human Rights

    Soon to be French president Fillon has put has said he would if unable to get the reform he wanted, and before Brexit while still Home Secretary Theresa May said that the UK should leave as well in this case instead of Brexit. Clubs only going to get smaller.
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So basically you'd have to withdraw from the EU, withdraw from the Convention on Human Rights AND have a referendum passed to bring it back.

    We've enough of them, unlike the US we know that ammendments are what they say and aren't unchangable.


  • Options
    #35
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It's not that a cops life is more important than anyone else. It's that police are responsible for maintaining law and order. In Ireland this is done, at least in theory, by the consent of the people. That is why Gardaí are not routinely armed. The Garda is a symbol of the will of the people. If a criminal is prepared to use lethal force against a Garda while on duty then they are considered to be more dangerous than a person who murders a non-garda because they have decided they have not only decided to break the law and kill someone but have also shown they will resist the will of the people to the utmost level.

    That logically makes no sense. You list a mental process that a cop killer would have to go through before killing a garda. However you'd have to prove that they went through that actual mental thought process first. It could be as simple as "I'm robbing a bank, there's a cop, shoot at him". That doesn't require the thought process you describe and would apply to anyone killed when trying to stop the robbery.

    Anyway, the death penalty shouldn't be allowed simply because there have been so many mistakes in the past. It's bad enough to lock someone up for life but to take their life by mistake. There's no coming back from that.


  • Options
    #36
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Grayson wrote: »
    That logically makes no sense. You list a mental process that a cop killer would have to go through before killing a garda. However you'd have to prove that they went through that actual mental thought process first. It could be as simple as "I'm robbing a bank, there's a cop, shoot at him". That doesn't require the thought process you describe and would apply to anyone killed when trying to stop the robbery.

    Anyway, the death penalty shouldn't be allowed simply because there have been so many mistakes in the past. It's bad enough to lock someone up for life but to take their life by mistake. There's no coming back from that.

    What is your point? The state have to prove that they deliberately took the life of a Garda they knew was on duty. That's why the capital murder charge of the Murrays was quashed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    What is your point? The state have to prove that they deliberately took the life of a Garda they knew was on duty. That's why the capital murder charge of the Murrays was quashed.

    My point is that you have described a particular process that their minds have to go through and that's why killing a Gardai is worse than killing a regular person. The fact is that the culprit might not have gone through the same thought process. And you'd be willing to execute someone for an action, that although horrible, may not conform to the reasons you've described.

    Plus in every single court case the court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. That happens in every capital case in the US and yet mistakes still occur. No matter what standards are applied, mistakes occur. And knowing that it's not worth the state taking the ultimate step of taking a life because it's the one thing that is irreversible.


  • Options
    #38
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Grayson wrote: »
    My point is that you have described a particular process that their minds have to go through and that's why killing a Gardai is worse than killing a regular person. The fact is that the culprit might not have gone through the same thought process. And you'd be willing to execute someone for an action, that although horrible, may not conform to the reasons you've described.

    But the state have to prove they want through that process. They have to prove that the killer knew the victim was a Garda and acting in the line of duty when they killed them. If your argument is that they would have killed anyone they encountered no matter who they were then I'd argue that person is even more dangerous then someone who chooses to kill a Garda.


  • Options
    #39
    Alan_P
    Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭Alan_P


    Varik wrote: »
    I
    We've enough of them, unlike the US we know that ammendments are what they say and aren't unchangable.
    But the amendment to reinstate the death penalty has to pass, not just be held. Where's your evidence that it would ?

    The matter is rarely polled in this country, but the few recent polls I've seen suggest that our opposition to capital punishment has, if anything, grown since the referendum. If you know of any reputable polls that suggest such an amendment would come anywhere close to passing, I'd be interested to see them.

    And note that the EU arguments are, to a large extent, irrelevant :- we banned the death penalty in this country by popular plebiscite before the EU ban.

    We don't have the death penalty in this country because a significant majority of Irish citizens are opposed to it, to the extent that they voted to impose the strongest possible ban on it, leaving no loopholes or exemptions where it could ever be reinstated.


Advertisement