Poppy to become more inclusive

evil_seed · 17-10-2019 9:16am

Is it that time of year again?

Plumbthedepths · 17-10-2019 9:19am

Edgware wrote: »

How many Russians died on Normandy beach?
Get a history book and dont be relying on your anti British bull****

I'm guessing the same number of British that died on the Eastern front.

17-10-2019 9:19am

Edgware wrote: »

How many Russians died on Normandy beach?
Get a history book and dont be relying on your anti British bull****

I wouldn't bother, its little more than trolling from the usual few.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 9:24am

Edgware wrote: »

How many Russians died on Normandy beach?
Get a history book and dont be relying on your anti British bull****

The point is - The British alone did not 'save' Europe, like everyone else in Europe they were defeated and routed and forced to retreat by the Germans.

They were certainly a part of an 'Allied' effort to 'save Europe' though.

sbsquarepants · 17-10-2019 9:27am

It's not trolling - the british hugely over estimate their role in defeating the nazis. To listen to some of them you'd swear churchill rolled up his sleeves and beat them himself, just like Rambo beat the Russians that time.

It's nothing more than the old history being written by the victors thing - the Germans ruthlessly bombed a brave stoic civilian population in the blitz, the brits courageously firebombed Dresden thus ridding the world of the scurge of nazism.

The British army is not deserving of any respect, for centuries it's been a genocidal wealth grab and not much else. From the occupation of our own country to the rape of Africa and Asia to the oil grab wars in the middle east, it's as evil an organisation as you're likely to find anywhere, and that era is not in the past, it's very much still acting the bollox all over the world.

Fúck them and their poppies!

17-10-2019 9:31am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's not trolling - the british hugely over estimate their role in defeating the nazis. To listen to some of them you'd swear churchill rolled up his sleeves and beat them himself, just like Rambo beat the Russians that time.

Listen to some on here and they think the British did nothing.

Britain played a significant role in defeating Nazi Germany, that is a simple fact.

Plumbthedepths · 17-10-2019 9:35am

Aegir wrote: »

Listen to some on here and they think the British did nothing.
They played their part.
Britain played a significant role in defeating Nazi Germany, that is a simple fact.

The Russians by shear weight of numbers both in terms of men and materials played a far larger role than the British.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 9:39am

Aegir wrote: »

Listen to some on here and they think the British did nothing.

Britain played a significant role in defeating Nazi Germany, that is a simple fact.

franciebrady wrote:

They were certainly a part of an 'Allied' effort to 'save Europe' though.

Yes, and that credit is freely given. They were a part of the effort to defeat Nazism.

What they really need to do (the Mark Francois's and others (if the cap fits etc)) is realise that everyone sacrificed to defeat the Germans and that nobody 'owes' the British for saving them.

Because expecting a payback on that imaginary debt is always going to disappoint. (See current events.)

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 10:05am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, and that credit is freely given. They were a part of the effort to defeat Nazism.

What they really need to do (the Mark Francois's and others (if the cap fits etc)) is realise that everyone sacrificed to defeat the Germans and that nobody 'owes' the British for saving them.

Because expecting a payback on that imaginary debt is always going to disappoint. (See current events.)

while everybody sacrificed some sacrificed significantly more. deaths on the british side are measured in 100s of thousands. deaths on the russian side are measured in millions.

17-10-2019 10:08am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, and that credit is freely given. They were a part of the effort to defeat Nazism.

What they really need to do (the Mark Francois's and others (if the cap fits etc)) is realise that everyone sacrificed to defeat the Germans and that nobody 'owes' the British for saving them.

Because expecting a payback on that imaginary debt is always going to disappoint. (See current events.)

who said anything about people owing the British anything?

17-10-2019 10:10am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

while everybody sacrificed some sacrificed significantly more. deaths on the british side are measured in 100s of thousands. deaths on the russian side are measured in millions.

so what?

Germany actually invaded Russia and fought a long and bloody war there, which will inevitably lead to more deaths.

Stalin wasn't too worried about killing a few million of his own people either.

17-10-2019 10:11am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Russians by shear weight of numbers both in terms of men and materials played a far larger role than the British.

The British played a significant role in defeating Nazi Germany.

Yes or no?

sbsquarepants · 17-10-2019 10:17am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because expecting a payback on that imaginary debt is always going to disappoint. (See current events.)

This is it exactly - no one disputes they played a part, but that is it, they played a part in a global effort. Nobody owes them jack shít and the part they played in no way absolves them of the centuries of pillage and plunder they also perpetrated.

They did not have a glorious empire, they enslaved half the planet. They certainly don't own the moral high ground, they were every bit as bad as the nazis and they continue to be a murderous shower of cúnts in many parts of the world. We're not talking centuries ago, they are still at it now!

sbsquarepants · 17-10-2019 10:18am

Aegir wrote: »

The British played a significant role in defeating Nazi Germany.

Yes or no?

Yes, but by no means the most significant.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 10:19am

Aegir wrote: »

who said anything about people owing the British anything?

If you make a statement (as the poster did) that 'in fairness, if it wasn't for the British, we'd be under Hitler' then you are suggesting something is 'owed' to Britian.

1. It wasn't 'just' for Britain...it was an Allied effort.
2. As everybody made huge sacrifices nobody in particular is owed anything. There are those in Britain who think they are 'owed' to this day.

17-10-2019 10:23am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Yes, but by no means the most significant.

but significant nonetheless?

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 10:30am

Aegir wrote: »

so what?

Germany actually invaded Russia and fought a long and bloody war there, which will inevitably lead to more deaths.

Stalin wasn't too worried about killing a few million of his own people either.

so what? really. Russia did the hard yards against the germans. without them britain would be an isolated island with no hope of invading europe.

sbsquarepants · 17-10-2019 10:31am

Aegir wrote: »

but significant nonetheless?

Yes. A significant part of a (semi) global effort.

They were also perfectly happy to throw certain countries to the wolves before that with their appeasement policies. There was considerably more self interest in their brave stance against fascism than they care to admit to.

They are owed nothing.

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 10:31am

Aegir wrote: »

but significant nonetheless?

of the 3 major allied nations their contribution was the least significant.

blinding · 17-10-2019 10:40am

Edgware wrote: »

How many Russians died on Norandy beach?
Get a history book and dont be relying on your anti British bull****

The Russians were too busy doing the heavy lifting long before Normandy and after . Normandy was a picnic party in comparison to what the Russians achieved .

arybvtcw0eolkf · 17-10-2019 10:47am

armaghlad wrote: »

Wonder does that include civilians murdered by the British armed forces?

Much the same as the monies raised by the sale of the Easter Lilly goes the innocent victims of IRA murders?.

17-10-2019 10:49am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

of the 3 major allied nations their contribution was the least significant.

but still a significant role, yes?

blinding · 17-10-2019 10:50am

They will soon be telling you to wear Poppies if the Brits killed your relatives / ancestors / etc .

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 10:51am

Aegir wrote: »

but still a significant role, yes?

compared to the US and russians i would argue it wasnt.

17-10-2019 10:58am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

compared to the US and russians i would argue it wasnt.

despite the fact that every historian considers the battle of Britain, the battle of the Atlantic and the cracking of the engima codes as significant milestones in the war?

I take it you have you never seen a map either. Could you tell me how the US would have invaded europe if Britain had given up or remained neutral?

It would kill some people to admit that the UK played a significant part in defeating Nazi Germany. But I guess we all know why :rolleyes:

17-10-2019 10:59am

blinding wrote: »

They will soon be telling you to wear Poppies if the Brits killed your relatives / ancestors / etc .

no one is telling you to wear a poppy though. If you don't want to, don't wear one. That's your choice that you are free to make.

I will be wearing one and that is my choice, that i am free to make.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 11:02am

If anyone wants to buy one of these then they are supporting those who murdered innocent Irish people in cold blood. That's the fact of the matter, no deflection can get away from this. You will also be supporting the murder of innocents in many other nations.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 11:04am

Aegir wrote: »

despite the fact that every historian considers the battle of Britain, the battle of the Atlantic and the cracking of the engima codes as significant milestones in the war?

I take it you have you never seen a map either. Could you tell me how the US would have invaded europe if Britain had given up or remained neutral?

It would kill some people to admit that the UK played a significant part in defeating Nazi Germany. But I guess we all know why :rolleyes:

The original poster (before you did your usual stepping in) failed to credit anyone else for saving Europe from Hitler.

You have pivoted that to something else....as usual.

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 11:06am

Bull**** optics like putting lipstick on a pig. Still a pig.

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 11:20am

Aegir wrote: »

despite the fact that every historian considers the battle of Britain, the battle of the Atlantic and the cracking of the engima codes as significant milestones in the war?

Indeed they were significant events among many. Who would claim otherwise.

Aegir wrote: »

I take it you have you never seen a map either. Could you tell me how the US would have invaded europe if Britain had given up or remained neutral?

That is conjecture. Despite all the bigging up of the so call "Battle of Britain" in Britain to this day, Germany made no serious attempt at invading Britain. Hitler was not particular interest in Britain- he wanted Russia. It was Goering as head of the Lutfwaffe that wanted a ego boasting vanity project. Also, at Dunkirk the Germans just basically ran them out to sea and left them at it.

Of course it allowed to Allied forces to rebuild and commence the Normandy landings.

The US Generals took over the running of the European campaign. They were scathing of the British Generals and sidelined them. They kept on Montegomery as a token gesture and even then he manged to lose the one campaign he was given at Arnhem.

Aegir wrote: »

It would kill some people to admit that the UK played a significant part in defeating Nazi Germany. But I guess we all know why :rolleyes:

Indeed it did. Don't forget the UK and other Allied countries also played a significant part in sowing the seeds that allowed Nazi Germany to rise and flourish in the first place. Let's congratulate the arsonist for putting out their own fire shall we.

17-10-2019 11:21am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The original poster (before you did your usual stepping in) failed to credit anyone else for saving Europe from Hitler.

You have pivoted that to something else....as usual.

Would Germany have won the war if Britain had surrendered or remained neutral, or would they have just steamrolled Russia with their full might, while the US decided that maybe a Nazi europe was better than a communist one and decided to keep out of the whole thing?

Who knows. At best, the war with Russia would have gone on for years longer and resulted in millions more being killed. Worse if German efforts to build an atomic weapon were achieved.

All the responses have tried to do is belittle Britain's contribution to the war effort. its the same people, time after time after time......

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 11:27am

Aegir wrote: »

Would Germany have won the war if Britain had surrendered or remained neutral, or would they have just steamrolled Russia with their full might, while the US decided that maybe a Nazi europe was better than a communist one and decided to keep out of the whole thing?

Who knows. At best, the war with Russia would have gone on for years longer and resulted in millions more being killed. Worse if German efforts to build an atomic weapon were achieved.

All the responses have tried to do is belittle Britain's contribution to the war effort. its the same people, time after time after time......

No...they have set the British war effort in it's proper factual context. Defeated and forced back into Britain, where they awaited the assembly of an Allied force, loans of money and equipment and took a full part in Allied effort to defeat the Germans.

ohnonotgmail · 17-10-2019 11:34am

Aegir wrote: »

despite the fact that every historian considers the battle of Britain, the battle of the Atlantic and the cracking of the engima codes as significant milestones in the war?

I take it you have you never seen a map either. Could you tell me how the US would have invaded europe if Britain had given up or remained neutral?

It would kill some people to admit that the UK played a significant part in defeating Nazi Germany. But I guess we all know why :rolleyes:

LOL. I assume you have never read any of my posts then. I wear a poppy every year and have been quite vocal about it on boards. What i wont do is agree with your rethoric about how mighty britain is or was. It was the least significant of the 3 allied nations by a long way. could the germans have been defeated without the russians? No. could the germans have been defeated without the americans? No. Could the germans have been defeated without the british. Possibly.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 11:37am

Did anyone ever read about what Britain did in Kenya? The concentration camps? Castrating men, raping women with glass bottles? Wear your poppy with pride.

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 11:38am

Aegir wrote: »

All the responses have tried to do is belittle Britain's contribution to the war effort. its the same people, time after time after time......

Maybe when Britain and its Little England cheerleaders wakes up and realizes that WWII ended 74 years they put all this nonsense to bed.

You even had this tripe last week: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/angela-merkel-brexit-leave-eu-kraut-tweet-germany-a9149096.html

For some reason or another official the British psyche has never got over it or refuses to move on or more cynically has no interest in 'getting over it' as they have a war machine to keep feeding. Everyone else has moved on. None of this tired nonsense in Europe. Let it go....

Funny really. The countries who are the most jingoistic and loudest about WWII (I am looking at Britain, the US and even Australia) were not invaded. Compared to the massacre of the civilian population and devastation in Europe these countries did not suffer at all comparatively speaking. US and Aus certainly did not.

Britain was subjected to a short aerial bombing campaign which did kill thousands but they made up for it with interest fire bombing Dresden etc etc.

Like Churchill, very easy to blast out flowery speeches when you are safely wrapped up in a bunker hundreds of miles away. There are no trenches or mass graves or concentration camps in Kent.

KungPao · 17-10-2019 11:51am

Looking forward to a few laughs this poppy season here: https://mobile.twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en

Your Face · 17-10-2019 11:55am

KungPao wrote: »

Looking forward to a few laughs this poppy season here: https://mobile.twitter.com/giantpoppywatch?lang=en

Hey, no laughing. There is a very serious grown-up discussion going on here.
They nearly have the whole issue sorted out.

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 12:02pm

I live in England for my sins. The whole Poppy season glorifies and romanticizes the notion of war and entire British military machine. Even monuments go on about the "Glorious Dead".

Yeah because being blown up in Flanders in a completely pointless war was glorious.

"We sent hundreds of thousand of men to a pointless and useless death in WWI. Sure we can' just sweep that under the carpet so lets just bang on about how great and glorious it was and keep the show going."

God help you if speak ill of the Army or do not wear a Poppy on TV. It is quite sinister and insidious.

Nobody asks any questions and plenty of sheep in this country- exactly the qualities you need when recruiting fresh meat to go to Iraq.

blinding · 17-10-2019 12:07pm

Next they’ll have Poppies with a Cross-Hairs Target on it ! !

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 12:14pm

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Did anyone ever read about what Britain did in Kenya? The concentration camps? Castrating men, raping women with glass bottles? Wear your poppy with pride.

Most Brits are too concerned about Love Island and Strictly. You gotta be joking if you think they know the first thing about their own history.

"Kenya...Kenya do what mate?"

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 12:23pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Most Brits are too concerned about Love Island and Strictly. You gotta be joking if you think they know the first thing about their own history.

"Kenya...Kenya do what mate?"

Kenya West?

Edgware · 17-10-2019 1:33pm

Aegir wrote: »

despite the fact that every historian considers the battle of Britain, the battle of the Atlantic and the cracking of the engima codes as significant milestones in the war?

I take it you have you never seen a map either. Could you tell me how the US would have invaded europe if Britain had given up or remained neutral?

It would kill some people to admit that the UK played a significant part in defeating Nazi Germany. But I guess we all know why :rolleyes:

No point arguing with fools. They'll only drag you down to their level with their ignorance.
I have no doubt that if Germany had invaded up these fools would be first up to collaborate

_Brian · 17-10-2019 1:37pm

Maybe “more inclusive” means they will be including more atrocities and more communities terrified by occupying British forces over the years ?

James Brown · 17-10-2019 1:44pm

Edgware wrote: »

How many Russians died on Normandy beach?
Get a history book and dont be relying on your anti British bull****

Good point. It was the Canadians breached (Juno?) the beach heads first. Not something you ever hear about on those nifty B/W propaganda movies. But this might be one of those times were, 'sure they're practically British'.

partyguinness · 17-10-2019 3:19pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Good point. It was the Canadians breached (Juno?) the beach heads first. Not something you ever hear about on those nifty B/W propaganda movies. But this might be one of those times were, 'sure they're practically British'.

Look, the British fought and won WWII all their own with no help whatsoever from anyone else. Pluck and a 'can do' spirit washed down with lashings of ginger ale saved the day. Huurah.

17-10-2019 3:31pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Maybe when Britain and its Little England cheerleaders wakes up and realizes that WWII ended 74 years they put all this nonsense to bed.

I guess the Brits will shut up about it, about 500 years after the irish stfu about Cromwell

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 3:36pm

Aegir wrote: »

I guess the Brits will shut up about it, about 500 years after the irish stfu about Cromwell

I'd say it'll be about that long before the Brits stop crying about the PIRA giving them a taste of their own medicine.

17-10-2019 3:40pm

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I'd say it'll be about that long before the Brits stop crying about the PIRA giving them a taste of their own medicine.

ooh, we've got a tough guy here.

This ones a proper badass, not like any of you keyboard warriors out there

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 3:41pm

Aegir wrote: »

ooh, we've got a tough guy here.

This ones a proper badass, not like any of you keyboard warriors out there

How many bins are there in London?

17-10-2019 3:43pm

Danthemanhere wrote: »

How many bins are there in London?

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=how+many+bins+are+there+in+london

Poppy to become more inclusive

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