Has Ireland lost its way despite an orgy of self congratulation since the recession e

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 9:30pm #1

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

lbc2019 · 27-07-2019 9:32pm

You do not appear to have a Sunny Disposition

The One Doctor · 27-07-2019 9:33pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

Everyone thinks their country is the worst country.

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 9:33pm

lbc2019 wrote: »

You do not appear to have a Sunny Disposition

Answer the questionðŸ˜…

Kermit.de.frog · 27-07-2019 9:33pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

The thing is all those things you complain about people in every country in the world complain about the exact same things.

lbc2019 · 27-07-2019 9:34pm

Better than the 80s

branie2 · 27-07-2019 9:34pm

Lackadaisical · 27-07-2019 9:34pm

They're two parallel and unrelated issues. You can be very self congratulatory about how Ireland has emerged from the darkages to become much more socially progressive AND STILL be extremely critical about health policies and problematic delivery of public services.

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 9:34pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Everyone thinks their country is the worst country.

Far from the worst country, just not as good as some Irish people say.

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 9:37pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The thing is all those things you complain about people in every country in the world complain about the exact same things.

I dunno, the Brits are very proud of the NHS for example.

lbc2019 · 27-07-2019 9:37pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Far from the worst country, just not as good as some Irish people say.

Thats just their positive demeanour

Lackadaisical · 27-07-2019 9:37pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Far from the worst country, just not as good as some Irish people say.

Also like pretty much every western country. We all have different perspectives and different blind spots.

I actually find Irish people tend to be harshly critical of the state most of the time. There's no real sense of deference to the status quo.

lbc2019 · 27-07-2019 9:37pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I dunno, the Brits are very proud of the NHS for example.

Some! Hardline Conservatives are not fans

Lackadaisical · 27-07-2019 9:38pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I dunno, the Brits are very proud of the NHS for example.

As a concept, but they'll absolutely lambast it and the government where it's failing to deliver.

Kermit.de.frog · 27-07-2019 10:02pm

Ireland and self congratulation OP?

Can hardly go any higher than the British and Brexit surely.

https://twitter.com/richardgaisford/status/1155029988791468032

HMS Gammon there heading for the iceberg.

lola85 · 27-07-2019 10:05pm

I love these moronic posts like the OP.

“People who bought pre recession or during the tiger are ok”

No one else can get a house now.

Yeah like the 20,000 houses built last year and the 14,000 so far this year are what?

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 10:07pm

lola85 wrote: »

I love these moronic posts like the OP.

“People who bought pre recession or during the tiger are ok”

No one else can get a house now.

Yeah like the 20,000 houses built last year and the 14,000 so far this year are what?

Not saying they can’t get a house, am saying they are very likely to pay an unreasonable high price for it. You’re the fcking moron around here bitch.

lola85 · 27-07-2019 10:08pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Not saying they can’t get a house, am saying they are very likely to pay an unreasonable high price for it. You’re the fcking moron around here bitch.

Goodnight,

Mad_maxx · 27-07-2019 10:08pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

It's all relative, economically we are an astounding success, most Irish people are unaware just how shockingly awful the continent of Europe is in terms of economic performance since 2008.

lola85 · 27-07-2019 10:11pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's all relative, economically we are an astounding success, most Irish people are unaware just how shockingly awful the continent of Europe is in terms of economic performance since 2008.

I’d love to see the majority of Irish people try survive one day in 90% of countries around the world.

We are so lucky and spoiled as a nation.

Enter name here · 27-07-2019 10:12pm

Was always bound to happen when our government panders to the needs of minority groups whilst ignoring the majority. But the problem is not just Ireland its a global pandemic currently.

riclad · 27-07-2019 10:14pm

Our health service is badly organised ,with layers of managers for every
nurse , doctor .
It cannot cope with an increasing population.
We needed an 10 year plan in 2009, to build house,s for future
workers .Our government plans 2-3 years ahead,
The hse is being re organised ,
it,s gonna be split up into regional boards ,
maybe 4 .
It should be easy predict by census and data from government
we will need x no of schools in certain area.s .
in 2007 the government borrowed 200 billion approx to rescue the banks .
The government owns 1000,s of acres, of land.
They could give sites to charitys to build more social housing.
listen to talk shows on radio, read forums,
theres loads of people complaining about high rents and high house
price,s .
Young people in america and the uk have the same problem.
I do not see any posts on forums saying
are we not great, we have a booming economy .
Since the 90,s i remember people complaining about a shortage of school
places .
Better broadband might attract people to move to rural area,s ,
maybe some government departments might encourage more people
to work from home and reduce traffic jams .
Our government systems were designed in the 30,s ,
maybe they are not fit for a society in 2019.
Its hard for the government to make major changes ,they have to consult with unions on every minor detail .
Take any organisation with 1000, of workers ,
there is bound to be a few who are lazy or dishonest .
I do not think anyone in government in 2008, were planning
for a boom or a large increase in population in 10 years
they were trying to rescue the banks and stabilise the economy .
I think the 3-3.5 lending rule has at least stopped prices from rising
to ridiculous levels .
i think theres a problem with the health service ,its hard to recruit new staff ,they are competing with private hospitals in usa,or uk,
who can afford to pay very high salarys .
Uptil about 2000 we had enough house,s ,
since the crash in 2007, housing policy has been mediocre or badly planned .
Look at the childrens hospital in dublin, it will probably take another 5-7 years to build it .
And it would have been alot cheaper to build it in dublin 15, near a motor way , where land
is cheap rather than in the middle of the city centre .
Building in the city centre is more expensive , than a site close to a motorway .
I think we are better than the american system, the american health system is a machine for giving money to hospitals and drug companys .
If you do not have health insurance you wont get medical treatment from anyone .
you wont even get the chance to lay on a trolley .
In general we are better off than most nation,s .

lbc2019 · 27-07-2019 10:25pm

OP does not live up too username!

Snotty · 27-07-2019 10:33pm

I love how the failings of the country are defined and the response is "sure its the same in x country", its the reason our country will never do anything well, half assed little Ireland.
Also, to clarify, Ireland does not have a sound economy, it has far to much dependancy on external and transactional based taxes, if it wasn't for briexit the morons in power wanted to lower the tax base every further and depend more on the type of taxes that dry up in the next recession, which is coming very soon.

_Brian · 27-07-2019 10:35pm

I like Ireland.
It’s a nice place, you need to get an education and a decent job, but that message has been around since the 70’s.
If you have private healthcare and choose a nice place to live it’s fine.

Yea I could double my earnings if I went back to Dublin but who needs that lifestyle.

I’ve never come across a problem with the guards, but were never in trouble and keep cars etc straight. We rang one morning a strange car came down our lane at 5:30 and we had a squad car within 10 minutes and it stayed about for two hours.

We’re 24km from the hospital but when we rang for an ambulance few years ago for one of the kids it was here in 30 minutes and we had a medic stay on the phone talking us through cpr, where local defib are and all that.

Local schools are great.

We’ve no public transport but we live in the countryside and have two cars, we grew up with that so it’s just normal.

People should just try enjoy what they have, life is short.

MrMusician18 · 27-07-2019 10:48pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

Dying from depopulation yet almost every town in the country has a growing population.

If Ireland has lost its way, when was it on the right path? I can point to any era when there were major social challenges.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-07-2019 10:49pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

I haven't noticed any self congratulation at all. In fact quite the opposite. Its always how bad the country is in the media.

I dont think we realize we toughed out a bad recession that many other countries just whined about.

blinding · 27-07-2019 10:54pm

Leo is a gob$hite alright but what ya gonna do ?

Tell me how · 27-07-2019 10:54pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Not saying they can’t get a house, am saying they are very likely to pay an unreasonable high price for it. You’re the fcking moron around here bitch.

Can you point to anyone, anywhere, at any point in time who was involved in a sensible conversation about the society in which they lived in and felt the need to express themselves in such a way.

Seeing as you appear to have created this thread to denigrate Irish society, what do you think that society would be like if everyone was as rude and argumentative as you appear to be?

What are you doing to make it a better place?

lola85 · 27-07-2019 10:56pm

blinding wrote: »

Leo is a gob$hite alright but what ya gonna do ?

Love how Irish people blame one person because their lives are so miserable.

Pathetic way to live.

You make you’re own luck, there is opportunities passing every minute in life but people are too lazy to see it and will blame “Leo” for all their failings.

Mad_maxx · 27-07-2019 11:19pm

lola85 wrote: »

I’d love to see the majority of Irish people try survive one day in 90% of countries around the world.

We are so lucky and spoiled as a nation.

You can say that about any European country, my point was that the eurozone is a basketcase economically, they would kill for our growth rates.

Your Face · 27-07-2019 11:44pm

Id agree with a lot of what the OP has identified as problems facing our Republic.

Also, while I wouldn't regard our reaction to progress as an orgy of self-congratulation - it can come across as smug, ostentatious and empty.

Sunny Disposition · 27-07-2019 11:57pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you point to anyone, anywhere, at any point in time who was involved in a sensible conversation about the society in which they lived in and felt the need to express themselves in such a way.

Seeing as you appear to have created this thread to denigrate Irish society, what do you think that society would be like if everyone was as rude and argumentative as you appear to be?

What are you doing to make it a better place?

If the poster is a female I apologize for using the word bitch, assumed it was a male.
I do loads of great things by the way. Am not rude, a little argumentative, but society needs that. Now cop yourself on a bit.

Tell me how · 28-07-2019 12:05am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

If the poster is a female I apologize for using the word bitch, assumed it was a male.
I do loads of great things by the way. Am not rude, a little argumentative, but society needs that. Now cop yourself on a bit.

On behalf of the nation. Thank you.
We're lucky to have you.

28-07-2019 12:07am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I do loads of great things by the way.

Your modesty is most becoming.

Dr. Bre · 28-07-2019 12:08am

The famine was a bit worse than now

28-07-2019 12:10am

Dr. Bre wrote: »

The famine was a bit worse than now

Only a bit..

JupiterKid · 28-07-2019 12:33am

lola85 wrote: »

blinding wrote: »

Leo is a gob$hite alright but what ya gonna do ?

Love how Irish people blame one person because their lives are so miserable.

Pathetic way to live.

You make you’re own luck, there is opportunities passing every minute in life but people are too lazy to see it and will blame “Leo” for all their failings.

Leo...is that you?

Kermit.de.frog · 28-07-2019 12:36am

I am Leo.

Hi!

Leg End Reject · 28-07-2019 2:10am

Knock it all ye want, but I was given a choice to be born again in a country of my choice I'd pick Ireland.

It's not perfect by any measure, but there's plenty of opportunities if you wish to avail of them.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-07-2019 7:14am

Deleted User wrote: »

Only a bit..

Yeah I mean at least then you had cannibalism to turn to.

super_furry · 28-07-2019 7:42am

So when's the orgy and more importantly what's the dress code?

riddles · 28-07-2019 9:06am

I suppose when reviewing Ireland it must also be acknowledged as a nation we are mostly descended from Spalpeen stock who for centuries had no education. As a colony we had to endure oppression and surviving the meant almost a form of one upmanship at the expense of another. It made flouting the law a badge of honour.

Add in the fact that post independence we didn’t have the skills in place to run a state. As a result we have a boom bust model and mentality. We have a large swathe of uneducated people and social responsibility is not very strong here. The compo culture is a good example of this as is fly-tipping etc.

We are currently completely broke, concealed only by our ability to still borrow money. Our cost base is out of all control. We have no clue how many people will enter or leave the country making planning impossible. There is also the pensions time-bomb which people are doing the ostrich about.

All that said I have been around a fair few countries but have not found a place I’d consider moving in place of here. Don’t borrow too much money and you can get along here just fine.

lawred2 · 28-07-2019 9:13am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ireland and self congratulation OP?

Can hardly go any higher than the British and Brexit surely.

https://twitter.com/richardgaisford/status/1155029988791468032

HMS Gammon there heading for the iceberg.

lol

The_Brood · 28-07-2019 11:02am

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Lot of self congratulation about what a progressive society we are, but has Ireland largely lost its way?
Health service is disastrous. Two years ago a woman got knocked down by a bus at the Cliffs of Moher and waited over an hour on the road for an ambulance. Dozens of people on trolleys every day at the Regional Hospital in Limerick particularly.
House prices are out of control. Just far too expensive. Homelessness has risen and those who can rent are broke from it. Only people who bought in the recession, or pre Celtic Tiger are okay.
Schools bursting at the seams, many towns where parents can’t get a place, teenagers making long commutes.
Garda corruption very serious, loads of instances in the last few years, Martin Callinan Was actually the commissioner at one point.
Bit of a generalization, but rural Ireland is dying of depopulation while the cities are choking due to growing too quickly since the 90s.
In summary this is not nearly as successful a society as some say, and governments have failed to introduce the required policies in health, education, policing and regional development.

This is pretty much the story of a lot of European/Western governments. More economic inequality than ever before, banks fatter than ever before, people struggling with basic needs they didn't struggle before in the past in the same situation -- but hang on a minute -- slap a rainbow flag on top of it and you can't criticize Mr. Politician over anything or you're a bigot. Checkmate!

Wanderer78 · 28-07-2019 11:07am

The_Brood wrote:

This is pretty much the story of a lot of European/Western governments. More economic inequality than ever before, banks fatter than ever before, people struggling with basic needs they didn't struggle before in the past in the same situation -- but hang on a minute -- slap a rainbow flag on top of it and you can't criticize Mr. Politician over anything or you're a bigot. Checkmate!

The neoliberal/neoclassical model is a bust, it ll be interesting to see how long it takes for this to be accepted

Tell me how · 28-07-2019 11:49am

The_Brood wrote: »

This is pretty much the story of a lot of European/Western governments. More economic inequality than ever before, banks fatter than ever before, people struggling with basic needs they didn't struggle before in the past in the same situation -- but hang on a minute -- slap a rainbow flag on top of it and you can't criticize Mr. Politician over anything or you're a bigot. Checkmate!

There's plenty room for improvement in today's societybut you're completely looking at the past through rose tinted glasses if you things people are struggling more now (on the whole) than they did then.

People have much more access to the basic needs you talk of now but there is also much more expectation to have everything available to everyone which leads people to ignore what they do have.

A lot of our parents shared beds with 2 or more siblings, walked to school until they left at 14 or so, cycled 10 or 12 miles to work which they could be let go from at a minutes notice.

As for implying Leo's sexuality absolves him from criticism. That is not the case. There's plenty criticism aimed at him for the right reasons, his performance in government.

NoteAgent · 28-07-2019 12:06pm

We're wealthier than we were 20 years ago.

Even the poorest of households all have smartphones, get takeaways, etc.

(We take these things for granted now but they were a real luxury 20 years ago)

lola85 · 28-07-2019 12:07pm

NoteAgent wrote: »

We're wealthier than we were 20 years ago.

Even the poorest of households all have smartphones, get takeaways, etc.

(We take these things for granted now but they were a real luxury 20 years ago)

We’re spoiled as a nation.

NoteAgent · 28-07-2019 12:11pm

lola85 wrote: »

I’d love to see the majority of Irish people try survive one day in 90% of countries around the world.

We are so lucky and spoiled as a nation.

You have the correct attitude and outlook - unfortunately you're in the minority.

People prefer to whinge about homelessness and house prices when in reality these problems were always here (even in peak Celtic Tiger there were homeless people on the streets)

Imagine complaining about mortgage payments now when they're at all time lows. Lets see how they would fair paying 20% interest on their mortgage like in the 80's.

jobeenfitz · 28-07-2019 12:22pm

We need to tighten our belts.

Has Ireland lost its way despite an orgy of self congratulation since the recession e

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