Parents who continue sending their kids to a school knowing they are being bullied

wexandproud · 03-05-2019 2:01pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Very true, but its not as easy to avoid bullies any more as it used to be. It can be relentless. Into their bedrooms at night.

A dig into the bully's face isnt always the answer, but sometimes it is. Likewise, the "softly softly , report and wait" for the school to act is an answer, in some cases, but not all cases.

But we definately need to teach more resilliance, that the world can be cruel, it isnt fair, but it is wonderful, thay not everyone is a "winner", but everyone is a human. Treat others as you would have them treat you. Be kind, reciprocate good behaviours, look for the best in people.
But be fcuking ruthless when you have to be. Be prepared to fight if you must, or spend your life running. Dont take shît you dont have to, and stand up for yourself.

resiliance and standing your ground should be thought as early as possible and it would nip a lot of it it in the bud . As a society , i think , we are becoming to quick to teach our kids that life is easy and trouble free . Its not .. like when you hear parents on about their kids not being able for the pressure of the leaving cert . . What are they going to do when the pressure of being an adult kicks in , like rearing a family , having bills to pay .

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 03-05-2019 5:09pm

Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »

How many times do we have to this ,I cannot understand how/why how their parents go to work everyday knowing their kid is being tormented and as if they are powerless to do anything.

"oh well we spoke to the principal and they are keeping an eye on it and they moved desk"

If we have learned anything, it's that schools will never accept or admit to incidents of bullying and will try to blame the kid being bulled i.e. their shy, mild mannered, socially awkward, they need CBT.

If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one, teach them at home or do something/anything but what I wouldn't do is march them off to be mentally and physical tormented everyday in a school that they are miserable in.

Your solution is not an easy one, not by any measure. The bully needs to move schools, nobody else.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.

Raping has been going on since the dawn of mankind, doesn't make it ok, nor should the victim "toughen up". No need to pussyfoot around it, remove the bullies and let the good children prosper. Developing a thick skin is also not a solution.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-05-2019 6:04pm

Darrell Obedient Snorer wrote: »

Your solution is not an easy one, not by any measure. The bully needs to move schools, nobody else.

Raping has been going on since the dawn of mankind, doesn't make it ok, nor should the victim "toughen up". No need to pussyfoot around it, remove the bullies and let the good children prosper. Developing a thick skin is also not a solution.

No body said its ok.
But resillance and coping skills will help in [/i]many[/i] cases. Not all. A thick skin could help in some circumstances, if the victim presents as unaffected, the bully moves on.

Poor analogy too TBF.

Teach30 · 03-05-2019 6:30pm

Overall I think schools could do more to stamp out serious instances of bullying. A lot of teachers just turn a blind eye.[/quote]

Why does it always come down to teachers? Parents are the primary educator.
At no stage have I received training in how to “stamp out” bullying and tbh I wouldn’t really know how to deal with serious bullying correctly. Only thing a lot of teachers can do is inform the principal/parents.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-05-2019 6:37pm

Teach30 wrote: »

Overall I think schools could do more to stamp out serious instances of bullying. A lot of teachers just turn a blind eye.

Why does it always come down to teachers? Parents are the primary educator.
At no stage have I received training in how to “stamp out” bullying and tbh I wouldn’t really know how to deal with serious bullying correctly. Only thing a lot of teachers can do is inform the principal/parents.[/quote]

This is Ireland, its always someone else's job/responsibility to so something.

Church on Tuesday · 03-05-2019 6:56pm

Darrell Obedient Snorer wrote: »

Your solution is not an easy one, not by any measure. The bully needs to move schools, nobody else.

Raping has been going on since the dawn of mankind, doesn't make it ok, nor should the victim "toughen up". No need to pussyfoot around it, remove the bullies and let the good children prosper. Developing a thick skin is also not a solution.

That's easier said then done.

Developing a thick skin is essential to survive in the real world, let's not pussyfoot around that either.

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2019 7:00pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Why does it always come down to teachers? Parents are the primary educator.
At no stage have I received training in how to “stamp out” bullying and tbh I wouldn’t really know how to deal with serious bullying correctly. Only thing a lot of teachers can do is inform the principal/parents.

This is Ireland, its always someone else's job/responsibility to so something.[/quote]

Bullying that is happening in school involving pupils should most definitely be dealt with by the school

If you are a teacher and wouldn't know " how to deal with bullying " I would be asking the principal for some guidance and training

Church on Tuesday · 03-05-2019 7:03pm

Teach30 wrote: »

Overall I think schools could do more to stamp out serious instances of bullying. A lot of teachers just turn a blind eye.

Why does it always come down to teachers? Parents are the primary educator.
At no stage have I received training in how to “stamp out” bullying and tbh I wouldn’t really know how to deal with serious bullying correctly. Only thing a lot of teachers can do is inform the principal/parents.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the house hold. And if you are going on for the profession you have a responsibility for the children on your watch. I'm hoping to, and that is my attitude.

Too many teachers just want to go through the motions and get through the day. I've seen instances were teachers have turned a blind eye to events occurring in front of them.

If that's too much hassle for you to make an example of someone on the spot then perhaps you should go for another profession.

judeboy101 · 03-05-2019 7:05pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Schools are the same as the judiciary here. Both are afraid to tackle the issue. Principal's have no backbone in dealing with this. Bullying should be immediate expulsion

They would but parents will run to dept and take a section 29 which most win due to technicalities or if they lose they go to the high court

Teach30 · 03-05-2019 7:12pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This is Ireland, its always someone else's job/responsibility to so something.

Bullying that is happening in school involving pupils should most definitely be dealt with by the school

If you are a teacher and wouldn't know " how to deal with bullying " I would be asking the principal for some guidance and training[/quote]

You might like to take not that I wrote “serious” bullying for a reason. Cases of serious bullying take more time and care to be dealt with in a sensitive manner that your average teacher can deal with.

At no stage this week had I any free time to deal with issues of serious bulling in an appropriate way as some teachers actually have a very heavy workload believe it or not.

I also would never volunteer myself to complete courses to learn how to assist students in coping with extremely serious bullying issues. I genuinely don’t have the personality or manner it requires.

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2019 7:28pm

I can't figure out who wrote the above post
^^^^^^^^^

I would be embarrassed to write that as a teacher . At very least you should know how to provide guidance to pupil as to where they can seek help . And how to reassure a pupil that help is available and how to access it

El_Bee · 03-05-2019 7:45pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Poor analogy too TBF.

It's no more poor than "sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" nonsense. I swear people just don't grasp what bullying is.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-05-2019 8:00pm

El_Bee wrote: »

It's no more poor than "sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me" nonsense. I swear people just don't grasp what bullying is.

Well TBF, bullying =/= rape

Teach30 · 03-05-2019 8:26pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I can't figure out who wrote the above post
^^^^^^^^^

I would be embarrassed to write that as a teacher . At very least you should know how to provide guidance to pupil as to where they can seek help . And how to reassure a pupil that help is available and how to access it

Ah here, anyone with a bit of cop on can provide basic anti bullying/coping skills/ guidance etc if you want to put it like that.

I’m taking about the extreme cases of bullying that services like CAMHS would be required to deal with.

Don’t worry I’m not embarrassed at all, I’m not alone in admitting this. Jesus what if I said the wrong thing to a child and made it worse? You have to be so so careful what you say.
No way I or many of my colleagues will put ourselves in that situation nowadays. Parents are too quick to place blame so I’ll stick to what I’m trained to do.

Church on Tuesday · 03-05-2019 8:55pm

Teach30 wrote: »

Ah here, anyone with a bit of cop on can provide basic anti bullying/coping skills/ guidance etc if you want to put it like that.

I’m taking about the extreme cases of bullying that services like CAMHS would be required to deal with.

Don’t worry I’m not embarrassed at all, I’m not alone in admitting this. Jesus what if I said the wrong thing to a child and made it worse? You have to be so so careful what you say.
No way I or many of my colleagues will put ourselves in that situation nowadays. Parents are too quick to place blame so I’ll stick to what I’m trained to do.

At least you're being honest about your apathy.

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2019 9:08pm

Teach30 wrote: »

Ah here, anyone with a bit of cop on can provide basic anti bullying/coping skills/ guidance etc if you want to put it like that.

I’m taking about the extreme cases of bullying that services like CAMHS would be required to deal with.

Don’t worry I’m not embarrassed at all, I’m not alone in admitting this. Jesus what if I said the wrong thing to a child and made it worse? You have to be so so careful what you say.
No way I or many of my colleagues will put ourselves in that situation nowadays. Parents are too quick to place blame so I’ll stick to what I’m trained to do.

Then go and educate yourself and get that training . Good god what a bloody attitude to have . No one asked you to be a psychologist just to do your job as a teacher of young people and guide them and help them find the right help and give them courage to speak up . Jesus .

Mrs OBumble · 03-05-2019 9:25pm

Darrell Obedient Snorer wrote: »

No need to pussyfoot around it, remove the bullies and let the good children prosper. Developing a thick skin is also not a solution.

Remove them to where?

Shooting them won't go down well. We're not allowed to have industrial schools any more. Moving them to another ordinary school would just passes the challenge of educating them to behave better to a different set of teachers. Occasionally it might work (more competent teachers at the other school). Usually it doesn't.

Teaching children how to behave in age-appropriate ways is a core part of the job of every teacher.

Arguably if there's unaddressed bullying it's the teachers who should be removed, or at least offered remedial teaching lessons to give then a chance to get better at their jobs.

El_Bee · 03-05-2019 10:03pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Well TBF, bullying =/= rape

the physical and psychological scars can be just as bad and last just as long

Teach30 · 04-05-2019 12:04am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Then go and educate yourself and get that training . Good god what a bloody attitude to have . No one asked you to be a psychologist just to do your job as a teacher of young people and guide them and help them find the right help and give them courage to speak up . Jesus .

You might like to take the time to read my post again as I emphasised “serious” bullying. Yes in general as part of what you could call the “hidden curriculum” you encourage students to behave appropriately, be mindful of one another, act in a correct manner in class etc etc. However it’s subjects like SPHE, Wellbeing and RE that cover the guidance, speak up aspect you are taking about.

What I will not agree to do is pretend to have the skill set to deal with more serious bullying issues. Yes I can act out of concern etc but I haven’t a notion of sitting down and talking through problems with students. That’s not my remit.

How on earth would a course get covered if that was the case?

I trained to teach a subject. I am not a trained counsellor. I have no interest in that aspect. I will leave the rest up to the DLP.

In my opinion parents/non teachers are far too quick to pass it over to someone else. Resilience is completely lacking, I have to be so careful what I say. There’s no such thing as “get on with it” or “would you ever cop on” .If I said that I’d have the cotton wool parents ringing in and complaining.

Teddy Daniels · 04-05-2019 12:14am

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Kids have to learn how to fend for themselves in the world.
Supported by their parents of course.
You can't just take them out of school or remove them from confrontation.
Life is tough

If my kid gets bullied its not him that will need to learn stuff.
Life is hard, so am I.

Kirby · 04-05-2019 12:27am

If you head into a school talking about how hard you are, you'll end up on a list mate.

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 9:32am

Teach30 wrote: »

You might like to take the time to read my post again as I emphasised “serious” bullying. Yes in general as part of what you could call the “hidden curriculum” you encourage students to behave appropriately, be mindful of one another, act in a correct manner in class etc etc. However it’s subjects like SPHE, Wellbeing and RE that cover the guidance, speak up aspect you are taking about.

What I will not agree to do is pretend to have the skill set to deal with more serious bullying issues. Yes I can act out of concern etc but I haven’t a notion of sitting down and talking through problems with students. That’s not my remit.

How on earth would a course get covered if that was the case?

I trained to teach a subject. I am not a trained counsellor. I have no interest in that aspect. I will leave the rest up to the DLP.

In my opinion parents/non teachers are far too quick to pass it over to someone else. Resilience is completely lacking, I have to be so careful what I say. There’s no such thing as “get on with it” or “would you ever cop on” .If I said that I’d have the cotton wool parents ringing in and complaining.

Well regardless of whether it is serious bullying or simple teasing you are frontline and the one they trust No one said you should be the one who deals entirely with it , of course you pass it on to a professional . But you have a role in a chain and should trained how to deal with the initial reaching out
Your post sounded like you couldn't even do that for a child in your care .
I worked with kids all my life , We knew how to deal with a child who reached out to us ( sometimes at 3 in the morning on a very busy shift ) We knew how important that initial moment was and to ensure they felt safe and that we could guide them to help
Your role is just as vital as the roles further up the chain at that moment . If only to say " I can help you to get the right help "

Teach30 · 04-05-2019 10:03am

But you have a role in a chain and should trained how to deal with the initial reaching out
Your post sounded like you couldn't even do that for a child in your care .

Well unfortunately we don’t have training and I have never been offered such training. It does come into effect you can bet that teachers trying to move up the line will be only mad to go and do it, it would look great on a CV.

As I said you would never get a course covered if you pandered to every student and their problems.

In reality that’s what I am employed to do, teach my subject. We do not have the time to deal effectively with students problems!

Also I hope the public realise this new wellbeing course that students receive - we don’t get any training for that either.

So you can only imagine how made up the content is.

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 10:13am

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-48065405

It just takes one to reach out and help a child in need .One who cares and is kind , they can then refer on and guide to find help

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 10:27am

Teach30 wrote: »

But you have a role in a chain and should trained how to deal with the initial reaching out
Your post sounded like you couldn't even do that for a child in your care .

Well unfortunately we don’t have training and I have never been offered such training. It does come into effect you can bet that teachers trying to move up the line will be only mad to go and do it, it would look great on a CV.

As I said you would never get a course covered if you pandered to every student and their problems.

In reality that’s what I am employed to do, teach my subject. We do not have the time to deal effectively with students problems!

.

My role was to nurse and take care of very sick kids .If one put their trust in me and reached then by god I would make the time and find the time to help . I remember one time staying on after a busy 12 hour shift to sit with a child who had reached out to me and wait until he was happy to put his trust in another .
Personally I would be finding out how I could be trained and guided to help those vulnerable kids who trusted me

Teach30 · 04-05-2019 11:21am

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My role was to nurse and take care of very sick kids .If one put their trust in me and reached then by god I would make the time and find the time to help . I remember one time staying on after a busy 12 hour shift to sit with a child who had reached out to me and wait until he was happy to put his trust in another .
Personally I would be finding out how I could be trained and guided to help those vulnerable kids who trusted me

Good on you, as a nurse you have an inherent caring side - I don’t. Not everyone will be good at reaching out to vulnerable students. I’m obviously one of these people!

I’m not going to apologise for my apathy at least I’m honest about it.

If I have to spend my spare time dealing with students it means I don’t get a lunch, I don’t get to properly prepare classes, I dont get work corrected. Then I have a class of 30 odd students who are not being taught correctly. Parents then start to complain about teacher.

Parents can’t have it every way - teachers teach, we have a basic pastoral care role and after that you pass it over to the designated person who is trained to deal with serious issues.

So I’ll stick with what I am supposed to be doing and that’s getting the course covered and preparing students for exams.

demanufactured · 04-05-2019 11:25am

Parents are too soft/stupid these days.
I was bullied for a brief period in school.
My old man walked into the yard and told said bully, that if he ever touched me again, he'd have to answer ti him.

Yer man never looked at me again

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 11:42am

Teach30 wrote: »

Good on you, as a nurse you have an inherent caring side - I don’t. Not everyone will be good at reaching out to vulnerable students. I’m obviously one of these people!

I’m not going to apologise for my apathy at least I’m honest about it.

If I have to spend my spare time dealing with students it means I don’t get a lunch, I don’t get to properly prepare classes, I dont get work corrected. Then I have a class of 30 odd students who are not being taught correctly. Parents then start to complain about teacher.

Parents can’t have it every way - teachers teach, we have a basic pastoral care role and after that you pass it over to the designated person who is trained to deal with serious issues.

So I’ll stick with what I am supposed to be doing and that’s getting the course covered and preparing students for exams.

Well as another poster said yesterday at least you admit your apathy . Sad but there you go .

Church on Tuesday · 04-05-2019 12:10pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well as another poster said yesterday at least you admit your apathy . Sad but there you go .

We've all had teachers like this at some stage, just going through the motions, lets be honest.

It shouldn't be the case but there you go.

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 12:44pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

We've all had teachers like this at some stage, just going through the motions, lets be honest.

It shouldn't be the case but there you go.

I suppose being honest kids know this too and the apathetic , I need my lunch , teacher is last one they go to anyway
Just as well there are the caring concerned ones too

Church on Tuesday · 04-05-2019 12:48pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I suppose being honest kids know this too and the apathetic , I need my lunch , teacher is last one they go to anyway
Just as well there are the caring concerned ones too

Oh yeah, kids are not dumb believe me.

Look teaching isn't an easy job by any means but I really feel that if you're in that position you should have some concern for the welfare of the kids in your charge.

iamwhoiam · 04-05-2019 12:55pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Oh yeah, kids are not dumb believe me.

Look teaching isn't an easy job by any means but I really feel that if you're in that position you should have some concern for the welfare of the kids in your charge.

Absolutely . But we all know not all teachers have sadly .

Teach30 · 04-05-2019 1:09pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Oh yeah, kids are not dumb believe me.

Look teaching isn't an easy job by any means but I really feel that if you're in that position you should have some concern for the welfare of the kids in your charge.

Absolutely we carry out a basic pastoral care role. The days of approaching a child to talk about problems are well gone. We can’t even be in a room alone with a students nowadays if they want to speak in private it’s usually outside classroom in a public area. That’s the world we live in.

Also everything has to be documented. So if a student speaks to teacher it all has to be reported. That in itself could become quite time consuming if you get too involved with students issues. So from our point of view it’s best to pass student on to counsellor and then keep student in mind when they are in your class.

That’s the reality.

Strumms · 05-05-2019 1:47pm

If the school are not meeting their responsibilities I’d remove the kids and try a different school. If that is not possible due to say.. geography, I’d aim to make contact with the parents of the bully and try and get it sorted by making them aware in great detail the issue their kid is causing, dates, instances of what happens etc..the impact it’s having on you child. Unfortunately, parents / people can suffer great stupidity and or not care unless the issue is right under their nose.

07-05-2019 12:54pm

Strumms wrote: »

If the school are not meeting their responsibilities I’d remove the kids and try a different school. If that is not possible due to say.. geography, I’d aim to make contact with the parents of the bully and try and get it sorted by making them aware in great detail the issue their kid is causing, dates, instances of what happens etc..the impact it’s having on you child. Unfortunately, parents / people can suffer great stupidity and or not care unless the issue is right under their nose.

Bullies usually have bullies as parents too, or "My little Johnny or Mary would never do that, it must be your kids fault"

sbsquarepants · 07-05-2019 1:49pm

There's some degree of "normal" bullying in all schools and that's the sort of thing you just need to deal with, kids can be little bastards. But when you see kids killing themselves or something like that Ana Kriegel case it really makes you think.
If my son or daughter was being seriously bullied I'd make sure it was stopped by whatever means necessary, up to and including dishing out hidings to both the kids involved and their parents if necessary (obviously as a last resort, but some people just don't respond to reason)
Fúck that letting the principle deal with it and coming home to find your kid swinging from the rafters some day. The school has a responsibility to all it's kids, I just have to look out for mine!

ollkiller · 07-05-2019 3:07pm

I have red hair and ain't that well built. I was in secondary school from 1991 till 1997. I was viciously bullied until I was 15 and it was a daily hell.

There was talks to the teachers and all that crap. Did not make one bit of difference. I started boxing when i was 15. Three months later no one bullied me again. I know this may sound harsh but if your child is getting bullied get them into either boxing or a self defence class. For one it builds self confidence and it's a good thing been able to defend yourself. In my case all the talking in the world accounted for nothing. Standing up for myself sorted it.

Bullying is terrible but I don't believe it will ever go away. And because I was bullied it made me the person I am today. It taught me a lot about people in general and how to handle certain situations. And since then I have not let anyone try to make me feel **** about myself.

Parents who continue sending their kids to a school knowing they are being bullied

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