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Parents who continue sending their kids to a school knowing they are being bullied
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most studies show that violence back towards a bully makes bullying worsePart of parenting is to teach your children how to deal with bullies. That includes teaching them jabs, right hooks, uppercuts, eye gouging, kicking and a whole litany of physically violent reactions. The lesson they need to learn is that while they must treat their peers how they want to be treated themselves that if they are subjected to bullying them the best way to stop it is physically reacting. If the child get's into trouble with the weak administration then the adult get's involved suggesting that if the damn school isn't going to stop their kid from getting bullied then the kid will take it upon themselves to stop it. Extreme? Perhaps but the key point is that none of the above would happen if they weren't bullied in the first place and nothing stops a bully faster than a target who doesn't take it and is willing to dole it back.
being positive, having good peer support and just saying no to someone is a much better strategy0 -
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »QED
Contradicts your earlier statement, i.e. victims "should just deal with it".
So you won't be relying on the kids to just "deal with it"?
Saying that kid should just deal with it and that it's always happened. Answered this before.
Some of your statements did condone bullying, as has been demonstrated. The fact that some don't, just brings me back to my original point that you are contradicting yourself.
Schools have a legal responsibility to create a safe environment; and bullying is not something that needs to happen so that the child can learn something from it about how to adjust to when it happens in adult life (and yes, that IS what you are saying). If that was the case, why would you stop it from happening in your classroom??
(Hypothetical question)
I don't condone bullying.
It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?
Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.
Apart from severe cases of bullying, ie systematic instances of bullying and physical assault, I personally think there is a lot to be said of a child being able to stand up for themselves. Most cases of bullying are not severe, usually snide comments about dress, personal interests, perhaps family etc.
Now in those instances I feel a child has to develop a thick skin. That may be an unpopular opinion with some here but there you go. It will stand them in good stead later in life; otherwise they will be walked all over in their adult life.
I really feel like I'm stating the obvious with that, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my earlier post.
You mention the classroom. The classroom is a controlled environment, but you'd be surprised as to what can happen. Any teacher worth his or her salt will be watching the classroom like a hawk and will be able to size up the demographic pretty quick.
I can only speak for myself and schools have their own protocol with this stuff, but if I were to witness any instances of bullying, i.e physical bullying, the matter would be dealt with on the spot, with that student severely reprimanded and marched to the principal preferably on the spot.
Outside of the classroom and on the way to classes, communal areas etc, if the bullying amounts to taunts or snide remarks then the child should give as good back (verbally). Or even better still, simply ignore.
Anything more serious then that, then the school MUST step in and deal with the matter and if the institution won't do that, then the child is best taken out of that environment.
You also have to bear in mind that bullying has a new ally in the form of social media and no teacher has control over that.0 -
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flowerchild wrote: »As a parent, you need to act if your children are being bullied. What works best is to:
1. Document in writing in a letter to the principal each day it happens (if it is above the line of behaviour needing action);
2. Arrange professional psychological support for your child, if needed and you can afford;
3. Do not speak to the other parent or child;
4. Do not go to a meeting at the school since this generally changes nothing, costs you wages, gives the school an illusion of action even though they have done nothing, and is an opportunity for them to indicate you/your child are the problems/these things happen etc etc;
5. Do not raise your voice, yell at or threaten school staff;
6. Be loving and supportive to your child, encourage them to talk with you as soon as they get home, shower them with love then shift their attention to something else fun while you write. Do not imply they are weak.
This system really does work. Stops bullying in its tracks and prevents you as a parent being accused of being a bully as you protect your child.
It’s all over within a week.
So, don;t engage at all with the school?Church on Tuesday wrote: »I don't condone bullying.
It's a fact of life.
Sayign the same thing over and over again doesn't change its meaning.Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.
And again, contradiction. What about the no so sevear cases? Just accept that it's been going on since the dawn of mankind and that the child has to man up?Apart from severe cases of bullying, ie systematic instances of bullying and physical assault, I personally think there is a lot to be said of a child being able to stand up for themselves. Most cases of bullying are not severe, usually snide comments about dress, personal interests, perhaps family etc.
Now in those instances I feel a child has to develop a thick skin. That may be an unpopular opinion with some here but there you go. It will stand them in good stead later in life; otherwise they will be walked all over in their adult life.
I really feel like I'm stating the obvious with that, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my earlier post.
You mention the classroom. The classroom is a controlled environment, but you'd be surprised as to what can happen. Any teacher worth his or her salt will be watching the classroom like a hawk and will be able to size up the demographic pretty quick.
I can only speak for myself and schools have their own protocol with this stuff, but if I were to witness any instances of bullying, i.e physical bullying, the matter would be dealt with on the spot, with that student severely reprimanded and marched to the principal preferably on the spot.
Outside of the classroom and on the way to classes, communal areas etc, if the bullying amounts to taunts or snide remarks then the child should give as good back (verbally). Or even better still, simply ignore.
Anything more serious then that, then the school MUST step in and deal with the matter and if the institution won't do that, then the child is best taken out of that environment.
You also have to bear in mind that bullying has a new ally in the form of social media and no teacher has control over that.
Again, saying the same thing doesn't change it's meaning.
You're going around in cricles. I'm done.Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »So, don;t engage at all with the school?
Sayign the same thing over and over again doesn't change its meaning.
And again, contradiction. What about the no so sevear cases? Just accept that it's been going on since the dawn of mankind and that the child has to man up?
Again, saying the same thing doesn't change it's meaning.
You're going around in cricles. I'm done.
K.
Bye.0 -
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I know of a kid who switched schools due to bullying. But to be honest, there is also a requirement to have the child attend a school. If my son is absent for greater than 20 days in the school year, he considered not to be attending. And that would also cause other issues for me.0 -
Dravokivich wrote: »I know of a kid who switched schools due to bullying. But to be honest, there is also a requirement to have the child attend a school. If my son is absent for greater than 20 days in the school year, he considered not to be attending. And that would also cause other issues for me.
There is not a requirement for children to attend a school. Article 42 of the Irish Constitution provides for this.1. The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.
2. Parents shall be free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State.
3.1 The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.
3.2 The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.
4. The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation.
Anyone in Ireland can, under this constitutional right, educate their own children.
As my children were horrifically bullied in a very rural school, and the bullying could not be ameliorated in spite of great effort, and there were no other schools available, I home-schooled them as per our constitutional right.
Years later the school principle apologised to me for the school's abject failure to handle the bullying. It was decent of them, but fat lot of good it would have done them if I had not responded. The children enjoyed the experience and have excelled academically, and it was a really good fun for us all. I do not, however, advise it generally unless people are prepared to have patience and commit to significant work.0 -
Schools are the same as the judiciary here. Both are afraid to tackle the issue. Principal's have no backbone in dealing with this. Bullying should be immediate expulsion
But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.
Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.
The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.
Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.I was once suspended for 'fighting back' after about 2 years of it.
One day it all came to a head and I snapped, and I was caught punching the bully multiple times in the face to the point where he needed hospital treatment (he needed stitches, he wasn't in any life-threatening danger).
So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.Church on Tuesday wrote: »I can only speak for myself and schools have their own protocol with this stuff, but if I were to witness any instances of bullying, i.e physical bullying, the matter would be dealt with on the spot, with that student severely reprimanded and marched to the principal preferably on the spot.
Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.
Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.
The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.
Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.
So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.
Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.
What a load of codswallop. The poor bully this, the poor bully that, what about the person whose life the bully has made a misery. Are they suppose to just say ah its ok then.
Until a bully is stood up to or exposed they wont stop. They are cowards and pick on the weakest.0 -
Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »How many times do we have to this ,I cannot understand how/why how their parents go to work everyday knowing their kid is being tormented and as if they are powerless to do anything.
"oh well we spoke to the principal and they are keeping an eye on it and they moved desk"
If we have learned anything, it's that schools will never accept or admit to incidents of bullying and will try to blame the kid being bulled i.e. their shy, mild mannered, socially awkward, they need CBT.
If I had kids and they were being bullied, I would just pull them out of school and send them to another one, teach them at home or do something/anything but what I wouldn't do is march them off to be mentally and physical tormented everyday in a school that they are miserable in.
I agree 100 percent with you (was just discussing this last night with a friend).
My kids are in college now, but I have a friend whose child was bullied all through primary and through secondary school. Now hes in college and really has very poor social skills and zero confidence.
So, yes, even if i had to send my child to an inconvenient school, I would have taken them out straight away and put them in another school.
For all the nay sayers on commenting to OP, re kids need to toughen up etc. Sorry but thats rubbish. Your kids get one childhood. Just one.0 -
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There is not a requirement for children to attend a school. Article 42 of the Irish Constitution provides for this.
Anyone in Ireland can, under this constitutional right, educate their own children.
As my children were horrifically bullied in a very rural school, and the bullying could not be ameliorated in spite of great effort, and there were no other schools available, I home-schooled them as per our constitutional right.
Years later the school principle apologised to me for the school's abject failure to handle the bullying. It was decent of them, but fat lot of good it would have done them if I had not responded. The children enjoyed the experience and have excelled academically, and it was a really good fun for us all. I do not, however, advise it generally unless people are prepared to have patience and commit to significant work.
Are you missing something? The child has a right to the education. Most parents do not have the means to home school. Without the means to do so, they must attend a school.0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.
Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.
The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.
Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.
So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.
Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.
I have to say I disagree with this.
If the child can't get discipline in the home, then he or she has to receive some kind of discipline in the school.
Harsh perhaps, but there you go. You have to have control in the classroom and be mindful of the other students at the same time.
We all went to schools were kids who bullied had issues at home. We as kids could spot it at the time and you can be sure teachers could too.
In cases like that it is a very tricky situation. The only thing really a teacher can do is express his or her concern to management and see what can be done from there.
And then conversely we have all gone to school with kids who come from what you may call a respectable household who bully.
Another poster here put it best when they said that there are any amount of variables as to why kids bully. In some cases it's acting out, in others it is much more psychological.0 -
Dravokivich wrote: »Are you missing something? The child has a right to the education. Most parents do not have the means to home school. Without the means to do so, they must attend a school.
Are you missing something?
What an oddly worded unpleasantry.0 -
This just looks like going against the grain for the sake of it. And it's dismissive and deflecting. Bullies are responsible for their own behaviour.Mrs OBumble wrote: »But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.
Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.
The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.
Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.
So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.
Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.
You did not bully anyone Faugheen - you stood up for yourself because you couldn't take anymore. And well done you. Very brave. And delighted it worked out for you, despite the school's loathsome way of dealing with it.0 -
Church on Tuesday wrote: »Bottom line is that in most schools there will be some kind of aggro of a surface level. Kids need to learn how to deal with this and develop resilience because they will need those skills in the real world. It's a kind of unofficial subject on the school curriculum in a way.Church on Tuesday wrote: »I don't condone bullying.
It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?
Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.Part of parenting is to teach your children how to deal with bullies. That includes teaching them jabs, right hooks, uppercuts, eye gouging, kicking and a whole litany of physically violent reactions.
Except some kids can't, as you say develop a tough skin, toughen up a little or learn how to deal with bullies.
You would probably enjoy a conversation with two friends of mine, the parents of a dead 12 year old girl due to bullying. All went to bed one evening and the mother got up to get her daughter up for school. She wasn't lying in her bed though, she was lying at the bottom of their block of flats, snuck out in the middle of the night and ended her anguish.
Her parents knew she had some issues at school, her being a western girl in an Asian school and had addressed it with her teachers, who brushed it off as not being very serious. She had no other problems until she started her new school, became slightly withdrawn, stopped going to ballet class but was still a fairly happy-go-lucky little girl. She had a great relationship with her parents and was always open with them about her problems, apart from the bullying. They've kept her iphone fully charged for a few years now as they are convinced there is evidence in there, but it's locked.
Maybe you could point out where they went wrong perhaps?0 -
Except some kids can't, as you say develop a tough skin, toughen up a little or learn how to deal with bullies.
You would probably enjoy a conversation with two friends of mine, the parents of a dead 12 year old girl due to bullying. All went to bed one evening and the mother got up to get her daughter up for school. She wasn't lying in her bed though, she was lying at the bottom of their block of flats, snuck out in the middle of the night and ended her anguish.
Her parents knew she had some issues at school, her being a western girl in an Asian school and had addressed it with her teachers, who brushed it off as not being very serious. She had no other problems until she started her new school, became slightly withdrawn, stopped going to ballet class but was still a fairly happy-go-lucky little girl. She had a great relationship with her parents and was always open with them about her problems, apart from the bullying. They've kept her iphone fully charged for a few years now as they are convinced there is evidence in there, but it's locked.
Maybe you could point out where they went wrong perhaps?
Classy. Go you.
They should have removed her from the school ideally. That's a tragic circumstance though and ultimately the school let the family down.0 -
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Walter Rough Nag wrote: »Mrs O Bumble in "tediously against the grain and unpleasant" shocker. Only the other day she was condemning when a criminal's difficult background is brought up.
https://www.boards.ie/...12&postcount=161
What kind of person completely contradicts themselves in a matter of days?
....
This just looks like going against the grain for the sake of it. And it's dismissive and deflecting. Bullies are responsible for their own behaviour.
Do you really not understand the difference between children and adults, and why children are not held responsible for their own behaviour in the same way that adults are???
Children who bully are first and foremost children. They are as entitled to education ad their victims are. No more - but no less either.0 -
They are also responsible for their own behaviour and they have responsibilities in how they conduct themselves on a school's property also. It's extremely rare for expulsion to occur anyway. They are given plenty of chances.Mrs OBumble wrote: »Do you really not understand the difference between children and adults, and why children are not held responsible for their own behaviour in the same way that adults are???
Children who bully are first and foremost children. They are as entitled to education as their victims are. No more - but no less either.
Deflecting from their behaviour does a disservice to their victims, and no, Faugheen did not bully (another deflection) - they acted in self defence.0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too
I didn't make his life a living hell for almost two years. I defended myself in the hope that it would stop. Funnily enough, asking him to stop didn't help, it just led to him slapping me in the face and laughing at me for being so pathetic in thinking that would solve the problem.
I'm not saying fighting back is always the answer, but don't you dare call me a bully when
1. I was trying to make it all stop
2. You weren't even f*cking there.
I was afraid to leave my house because of that arsehole. Two years of the point of my life where I'm supposed to be learning and developing social skills, interacting more with the opposite sex, whatever most 14/15 year olds do because of him and his cronies.
I'm not sorry for what I did and, if I was found in the same situation as a 14 year old, I would do it again. That doesn't make me a bully. Don't you dare suggest otherwise when you weren't there.0 -
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victor8600 wrote: »Sure you would. If you had children and a ready access to schools who are just eager to get your kid at a moment's notice. You do know that some parents enroll their child into their preferred school as soon as the child is born? Do you think you would just walk into any school and they'd say, 'sure, your kid can start tomorrow'?
Let me give you a choice -- work with the principal to hopefully deal with the bulling in the current school, or leave your job to stay at home with your child until the next academic year when there is a space in a school 30 minutes drive away?
That's an easy choice, I take my kids out of the school.0 -
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I know of a bullying case. The victims older brother met the chief bully on the way home, gave him the works and told him that he was now responsible for making sure the young lad was not to be bullied by anyone or else there would be a repeat. It took a few meetings but he got the idea and moved on to some other victim0
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I'm 25 bit back in 3rd year my best friend at the time was getting a really rough time off a new lad that had just moved to our town / school. To the point he'd rather fake being sick or maybe even actually felt sick then rather come into school. He got bullied for being gay even though he wasn't. He just didn't act all masculine and wasn't into sports etc.
I came forward with his parents as a witness and the school took it very seriously. They suspended the bully for a few weeks and upon returning he went straight back to picking on my friend. Immediately got expelled.
My secondary school was a community college and fair play to them for bashing bullying on the head.
I have a 3 year old daughter, even though she is not in school yet the idea of anyone bulling her makes my blood boil. If we ever had issues I would be in that school daily until it was sorted, failing that I'd be getting a solicitor involved.0 -
I didn't make his life a living hell for almost two years. I defended myself in the hope that it would stop. Funnily enough, asking him to stop didn't help, it just led to him slapping me in the face and laughing at me for being so pathetic in thinking that would solve the problem.
I'm not saying fighting back is always the answer, but don't you dare call me a bully when
1. I was trying to make it all stop
2. You weren't even f*cking there.
I was afraid to leave my house because of that arsehole. Two years of the point of my life where I'm supposed to be learning and developing social skills, interacting more with the opposite sex, whatever most 14/15 year olds do because of him and his cronies.
I'm not sorry for what I did and, if I was found in the same situation as a 14 year old, I would do it again. That doesn't make me a bully. Don't you dare suggest otherwise when you weren't there.
Do you mind if I ask did you or your parents raise the issue with the school? You may have mentioned it in an earlier post0 -
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Mrs OBumble wrote: »
So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.
Despicable comment- do you have any idea of the devastating impact bullying can have on someone, often lasting for years long after the bullying has occurred?0 -
Church on Tuesday wrote: »Do you mind if I ask did you or your parents raise the issue with the school? You may have mentioned it in an earlier post
No, I was afraid to. Didn't want to be seen as 'a rat' and other lame excuses in hindsight.
Make no mistake, the school knew about it. I won't go into the details, but they absolutely knew about it.0 -
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No, I was afraid to. Didn't want to be seen as 'a rat' and other lame excuses in hindsight.
Make no mistake, the school knew about it. I won't go into the details, but they absolutely knew about it.
A lot of schools will turn a blind eye to this kind of stuff, which is totally wrong.
The school I attended was much the same, a faded name living off of past reputation often pride comes before the fall with some places. It was tough.
I've no doubt in my mind that your school was aware of it; teachers are trained to be observant at all times, it's literally their job.
I've witnessed instances where teachers have literally walked by students who were in distress.0 -
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I was bullied on and off for a while in school - I was quite short for my age.
All came to a head after months and months one day in gym - playing football - main lad repeatedly kept trying to slyly trip me up almost every time I had the ball.
Said stop a few times - obviously he laughed in my face (well not just him - his lacky followers too). This carried on until I quite literally snapped - turned and twatted him square in the nose. Nose burst open. Blood everywhere. His lackies disappeared. Your man looked around a few times and then just walked off out of the gym.
That was the last time I was picked on. Thing is - he could have given me a complete hiding - he was definitely physically capable of it. But he didn't and that was that.0 -
I was bullied on and off for a while in school - I was quite short for my age.
All came to a head after months and months one day in gym - playing football - main lad repeatedly kept trying to slyly trip me up almost every time I had the ball.
Said stop a few times - obviously he laughed in my face (well not just him - his lacky followers too). This carried on until I quite literally snapped - turned and twatted him square in the nose. Nose burst open. Blood everywhere. His lackies disappeared. Your man looked around a few times and then just walked off out of the gym.
That was the last time I was picked on. Thing is - he could have given me a complete hiding - he was definitely physically capable of it. But he didn't and that was that.
The thing with bullies is 9/10 they are trying to get a rise out of you.
You either just ignore (which drives bullies mental BTW) give as good back verbally or you do what you did and stand up for yourself.
I really wouldn't recommend physical violence TBH. But I wouldn't judge either.
For students who can't stand up for themselves for whatever reason (and there can be many reasons) and if it's severe then that's when the school has to step in.
I mentioned it before but social media bullying is quite a thing now and with that aspect of bullying it follows the victim home long after the school day has finished.0 -
Why do some people get so offended when people say they stuck up for themselves physically failing all else?
Maybe they were never in a similar situation or maybe they have been physically abused or bullied themselves and can't bare the idea of doing it to others.
As a species we are prone to violence and there are people out here who don't understand anything else..
In my honest opinion its fair to meet a physical treat or attack with reasonable force.0 -
Why do some people get so offended when people say they stuck up for themselves physically failing all else?
Maybe they were never in a similar situation or maybe they have been physically abused or bullied themselves and can't bare the idea of doing it to others.
As a species we are prone to violence and there are people out here who don't understand anything else..
In my honest opinion its fair to meet a physical treat or attack with reasonable force.
Yes and No.
In the school environment you are trying to instill some degree of decency, responsibility and mutual respect upon students.
The first school is the home. In the family home these values should already be set in stone, although that depends sadly sometimes on the quality of that home.
In the adult world I would say it's fair, even essential, to be able to look after yourself upon threat of physical attack. In the school environment you ideally do not want that scenario playing out. It's supposed to be, in the main, a controlled environment.
Its about trying to put out into the world decent and morally centered young adults along with providing them with a decent education and understanding.
There will be many though who sadly slip through the cracks.0 -
I was once suspended for 'fighting back' after about 2 years of it.
One day it all came to a head and I snapped, and I was caught punching the bully multiple times in the face to the point where he needed hospital treatment (he needed stitches, he wasn't in any life-threatening danger).
Basically because I told the principal that I'd do it again in the circumstances, he saw that as me having no remorse and they were left with no option but to suspend me, and my case was brought before the Board of Management for possible expulsion.
Thankfully, the Board saw sense and actually listened to what me and my parents had to say. There were also parents of other lads in my class who stood up on my behalf. The suspension stood but I wasn't expelled.
I had to apologise, but the bully didn't because like a coward he and his cronies denied everything.
However, I never had a problem with bullying after that, and the school started to up its game with regards to dealing with bullying.
TL;DR - some schools bullying policy was completely backwards, I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the case elsewhere.
Same, I was in a tough secondary school in Glasgow in the late seventies and was being bullied for a number of years, it all came to a head one day when three guys were pelting my head with mud rocks in the playground and I just exploded and hospitalised the three of them, I got suspended and my mother went down the next day and ranted at the principal. I had to attend a psychiatry class at another school one afternoon a week for the next year as I was seen as the the problem. Needless to say no one bothered me too much after that.If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)
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Theres a balance between teaching your kids resiliance, and being able to stick up for themselves. Theres also a time when parents need to step in when the kid isnt coping.
My kids know they'll be severely punished if they throw the first or third slap. They've my "permission" to throw the second. Ideally they use their wits though.
A lot of people seem to be relying on the school to sort out bullying. But with social media etc now it can be relentless. Suspending the bully might only move it out of the school into the street/playground. Parents need to do more. Not abdicate responsibility.
Sometimes a punch in the face does a lot more than bullying victim awareness classes. Theres no right answer, but i think violence and/or threat of it is the answer in a lot of cases. Not all, but a lot.
Bullying is every fcuking where. Its possibly a human nature in some. That doesnt mean its should be accepted. But we shouldnt be naive about it thinking we can eradicate it somehow.
"Yadda yadda but the bully is being bullied". Fcuk the bully. Its the victim needs the support.
I had case of bullying in a tough enough primary school. Chap used to pick on me regularly. I was small, skinny with glasses, and fairly clever (not any more. Any of them). Bully one day threw paint on my lovely panther (tank) painting , and turned around to his friends laughing. They failed to warn him about the chair about to be bate of his head. Repeatedly.
Not another peep ever again.
Can see it like yesterday almost 35 years later!0 -
I think there are people in here who confuse a big of slagging they got when they were kids to bullying and are coming out with the "well kids need to toughen up, I got bullied and I was fine" bull****. Bullying DESTROYS children, it is constant, physical, psychological abuse, often coordinated between several children. The damage never heals, having witnessed first hand the effects on more than one child, it's sick disgusting and evil. Expulsion should be mandatory, and I'd 100% be in favour of the parents being fully liable and having to pay damages to the victims and their family.0
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Roger Hassenforder wrote: »Theres a balance between teaching your kids resiliance, and being able to stick up for themselves. Theres also a time when parents need to step in when the kid isnt coping.
My kids know they'll be severely punished if they throw the first or third slap. They've my "permission" to throw the second. Ideally they use their wits though.
A lot of people seem to be relying on the school to sort out bullying. But with social media etc now it can be relentless. Suspending the bully might only move it out of the school into the street/playground. Parents need to do more. Not abdicate responsibility.
Sometimes a punch in the face does a lot more than bullying victim awareness classes. Theres no right answer, but i think violence and/or threat of it is the answer in a lot of cases. Not all, but a lot.
Bullying is every fcuking where. Its possibly a human nature in some. That doesnt mean its should be accepted. But we shouldnt be naive about it thinking we can eradicate it somehow.
"Yadda yadda but the bully is being bullied". Fcuk the bully. Its the victim needs the support.
I had case of bullying in a tough enough primary school. Chap used to pick on me regularly. I was small, skinny with glasses, and fairly clever (not any more. Any of them). Bully one day threw paint on my lovely panther (tank) painting , and turned around to his friends laughing. They failed to warn him about the chair about to be bate of his head. Repeatedly.
Not another peep ever again.
Can see it like yesterday almost 35 years later!
Exactly the point I've been trying to make.0 -
I think there are people in here who confuse a big of slagging they got when they were kids to bullying and are coming out with the "well kids need to toughen up, I got bullied and I was fine" bull****. Bullying DESTROYS children, it is constant, physical, psychological abuse, often coordinated between several children. The damage never heals, having witnessed first hand the effects on more than one child, it's sick disgusting and evil. Expulsion should be mandatory, and I'd 100% be in favour of the parents being fully liable and having to pay damages to the victims and their family.
Yup, I take your point there and I think that's the case here; I'd fall into the first category rather than the second myself, got plenty of snide comments and a bit of intimidation but I did witness some of my friends being bullied pretty badly.
In terms of systematic bullying, well that's just completely wrong and vile and I'd support the parents of said bully being liable to pay damages like you said.
Overall I think schools could do more to stamp out serious instances of bullying. A lot of teachers just turn a blind eye.0 -
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Roger Hassenforder wrote: »I dont disagree with you, but how do you deal with it outside of a school?
E.g. on a street between kids?
Litigation, Judges are giving money out for nonsense claims left and right, may as well put claims in for actual pain and suffering.0 -
Roger Hassenforder wrote: »I dont disagree with you, but how do you deal with it outside of a school?
E.g. on a street between kids?
Difference with bullying on the street v bullying in school is that parents are sending their kids into a closed facility for 6 - 8 hours per day knowing their child is being intimidated. Outside of school, except for when the kids are on the way home from school, you are not wilfully sending your kids into an environment knowing that they are being bullied and they can choose which kids they want to hand around with or at least be able to avoid the kids they don't want to hang around with.0 -
If you replace the word "school" with "music lessons" where there is this boy who punches and spits on my kids but we send him there everyday anyway, people would think you need your head screwed on but because it's school then for some reason it's ok???0
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I wouldn't do nothing but the first sign of issues wouldn't be to pull them out of the school.
I would like to think as wrong as i may be that we have some policies in place to protect children in schools.0 -
flowerchild wrote: »As a parent, you need to act if your children are being bullied. What works best is to:
1. Document in writing in a letter to the principal each day it happens (if it is above the line of behaviour needing action);
2. Arrange professional psychological support for your child, if needed and you can afford;
3. Do not speak to the other parent or child;
4. Do not go to a meeting at the school since this generally changes nothing, costs you wages, gives the school an illusion of action even though they have done nothing, and is an opportunity for them to indicate you/your child are the problems/these things happen etc etc;
5. Do not raise your voice, yell at or threaten school staff;
6. Be loving and supportive to your child, encourage them to talk with you as soon as they get home, shower them with love then shift their attention to something else fun while you write. Do not imply they are weak.
This system really does work. Stops bullying in its tracks and prevents you as a parent being accused of being a bully as you protect your child.
It’s all over within a week.
Nothing you say here shows in any way how the bullying will be stopped - in fact it will make it much worse. Especially if it is a group of bullies.
Whats worse is that you have no idea how bullying works and I hope you don't have kids in school or are a teacher.
Group psychological bullying is the worst. It's always surprising that people say that small kids are the ones who are bullied but in my experience it's bigger kids who are bullied in the main by small kids.
Bullying gives a good insight into how horrible humans can be for no good reason.0 -
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They are going to meet far worse bullies in the adult world, so removing them from a level of threat or challenge is counterproductive in the long run.
Yes there are bullies in all walks and stages of life but you talk about a child being bullied as if it’s a way of life. It isn’t and no child under any circumstances should have to deal with that. An adult who is being bullied is a different situation entirely and it’s not a like with like comparison.
An adult has far more ways of dealing with a bully than a child - both physically and mentally. No way a child is wise enough to know what to do when faced with that situation whereas an adult does. Children should be protected at all costs against bullies because the psychological effects last a lot longer than a bruise or a cut they get from a dig.
When I was in school bullies used to punch or kick their victims. Now it’s less physical and more psychological - WhatsApp, Facebook, Snapchat etc are all used to bully children and we’ve seen plenty of cases in the past where the results of this new form of bullying can have catastrophic consequences.0 -
had something similar with one of my young lads , abot 7/8 at the time . After months of not wanting to go to school , not eating lunch and upset every day when he got home . He finally told us of being bullied in the yard in school , and to make it worse it was by a little girl . Daughter of a couple who would have been seen as ''pillars of the community'' .I was once suspended for 'fighting back' after about 2 years of it.
One day it all came to a head and I snapped, and I was caught punching the bully multiple times in the face to the point where he needed hospital treatment (he needed stitches, he wasn't in any life-threatening danger).
Basically because I told the principal that I'd do it again in the circumstances, he saw that as me having no remorse and they were left with no option but to suspend me, and my case was brought before the Board of Management for possible expulsion.
Thankfully, the Board saw sense and actually listened to what me and my parents had to say. There were also parents of other lads in my class who stood up on my behalf. The suspension stood but I wasn't expelled.
I had to apologise, but the bully didn't because like a coward he and his cronies denied everything.
However, I never had a problem with bullying after that, and the school started to up its game with regards to dealing with bullying.
TL;DR - some schools bullying policy was completely backwards, I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the case elsewhere.
We approached the school and explained the situation and they said they had a very strict policy on bullying and would look into it . Weeks and weeks went by and nothing changed . Eventually I told the lad that if it didn't stop , the next time she laid a hand on him he was to push her back . That went against everything we had told our kids about respecting girls but I was just sick of it going on .
A few days later the lad arrived home from school in great form and he explained that xxx had tried taking something from him at school so he punched her once . She left him alone that day . As time went on they became great pals and still are , she turned out to be a nice young lady .
While i have no doubt that in some cases extreme bullying exists , in a lot of cases its kids just finding their way and finding what is / is not acceptable .
Before anybody comes on whinging about the lad punching a little girl , dont bother as the 3 of them know quiet well how i would react if i ever thought any of them used unprovoked violence against a girl .0 -
Floppybits wrote: »This is the biggest fear I have for my daughter when she goes to school. From reading things here it always seems to be the victim of the bully that needs to find alternative schools, what ever happens to the bully? Is there any stigma of being labelled a bully?
There seems to be no consequences for the bully, a friends kid has just started in secondary school and she says the things that she has to do to check that her daughter is not being bullied or doing the bullying is a full time job. She said the social media is a nightmare.
That's Ireland ! There are zero consequences for doing bad things here !0 -
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Athena Wooden Succotash wrote: »Difference with bullying on the street v bullying in school is that parents are sending their kids into a closed facility for 6 - 8 hours per day knowing their child is being intimidated. Outside of school, except for when the kids are on the way home from school, you are not wilfully sending your kids into an environment knowing that they are being bullied and they can choose which kids they want to hand around with or at least be able to avoid the kids they don't want to hang around with.
Very true, but its not as easy to avoid bullies any more as it used to be. It can be relentless. Into their bedrooms at night.
A dig into the bully's face isnt always the answer, but sometimes it is. Likewise, the "softly softly , report and wait" for the school to act is an answer, in some cases, but not all cases.
But we definately need to teach more resilliance, that the world can be cruel, it isnt fair, but it is wonderful, thay not everyone is a "winner", but everyone is a human. Treat others as you would have them treat you. Be kind, reciprocate good behaviours, look for the best in people.
But be fcuking ruthless when you have to be. Be prepared to fight if you must, or spend your life running. Dont take shît you dont have to, and stand up for yourself.0 -
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