Comet NeoWise

oriel36 · 20-07-2020 5:03pm

The descriptions of the location of the comet are all based on daily rotational coordinates of North/South/East/West projected out into space therefore represent descriptions for identification purposes alone without the more satisfying depth perception based on a Sun centred system and seen from the orbital plane of the Earth.

The orbital plane of the Earth is easily determined presently as the Earth roughly follows the same plane as Jupiter and Saturn and these two planets provide a straight line presently defining that plane and opposite the stationary/central Sun -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-saturn-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-uranus-neptune-pluto&obj=saturn&h=22&m=15&date=2020-07-20#ra|20.830736568945362|dec|-19.14937126801609|fov|80

Follow the horizon (which extends only a number of miles anyway) and the observer is rewarded with a sense of solar system depth rather than just pasting the planets and comet against a celestial sphere background. It is the more expansive thing to do and especially now as our planet passes Jupiter and Saturn at our mutual closest points in a common journey around the Sun -

https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

It is delightful to see weather enthusiasts be drawn to the comet even without putting the celestial object in context of the orbital motion and position of the Earth between the faster and slower moving planets. Some people argue that such events don't belong in a meteorological forum yet it is impossible to consider weather and climate without our planetary daily rotational and orbital traits.

Calibos · 20-07-2020 7:27pm

Oh Lords of Celestial Motion...Give me Strength!!

Popoutman · 20-07-2020 7:40pm

(Don't engage, just ignore, eventually they'll either give up with no engagement, or the mods will have done due diligence and banned for continual off-topic derailment and ignorance of instruction.)

But yes, I <BA>Do pity the fool. </BA>

oriel36 · 20-07-2020 8:21pm

Too much fuss directed towards my descriptions which are all based from an orbital plane standpoint. Those who use the cardinal points (N/S/E/W) to identify the comet are like people on a carousel trying to make sense of motions outside the carousel . It would normally be fine to use a celestial sphere framework for identification but these jokers overreach and attempt to use the Earth's rotation to interpret orbital motions or even model the Earth's motion hence their awful ideas about climate and weather -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwSlkJG8gTU

Encouraging observers to take the more expansive view and go beyond mere identification is always going to attract a small audience presently and so what if the usual suspects whine and complain, somehow the more expansive view takes into account genuine astronomy that was lost to celestial sphere enthusiasts and their late 17th century RA/Dec framework -

https://astronomy.com/~/media/6086B7E16761466A9D4C189A35DC516F.jpg

The Earth doesn't exist like that and especially not dealing with cause and effect in respect to weather and the seasons. When people stop mocking themselves and take the more expansive view that modern imaging allows then people will get on with genuine research instead of the awful mishmash of experimental theorists and celestial sphere enthusiasts.

lolie · 20-07-2020 8:47pm

Calibos wrote: »

Oh Lords of Celestial Motion...Give me Strength!!

I take it you're not into your orbital planes and Celestial motions

Looks like lots of cloud rolling in from the northwest, might spoil the fun tonight.
https://en.sat24.com/en/gb/visual

oriel36 · 20-07-2020 9:28pm

lolie wrote: »

I take it you're not into your orbital planes and Celestial motions

For whatever reason, people feel free to express their lack of interest and knowledge in astronomy as though it were the greatest thing ever -

https://twitter.com/vodafoneireland/status/1269886882273320963

How we see events free of the daily rotation and its carousel-like effects is one of the greatest engineering achievements but I wouldn't try to convince you nor all the other people who believe identification of the comet is the sole extent of their abilities. The engineering achievement is not matched by the interpretative faculties all have, some more and others less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=41s

The narrator doesn't say it directly but the change in position of the background stars from left to right of the central Sun and parallel to the orbital plane is a demonstration of the Earth's motion. Why people find this offensive is anyone's guess !.

Take your photos and enjoy them, however, the real challenge is far more expansive and satisfying as viewed from the orbital plane of the Earth. We participate in that motion along the orbital plane but the observation is normally swamped by daily rotation and the dummies who think they are doing everyone a favour by modeling off a rotating celestial sphere.

Cody montana · 20-07-2020 10:12pm

Will we see it tonight?

lolie · 20-07-2020 10:24pm

Cody montana wrote: »

Will we see it tonight?

Hard to tell yet as a good bit of cloud out now.

Iss is out tonight at 10.26, 12.03 and 1.40 if anyone has clear skies.

Magellanic · 20-07-2020 10:41pm

Just saw ISS pass in clear (bright-ish) kerry skies - fingers crossed the cloudless skies continue.

Cody montana · 20-07-2020 10:42pm

Magellanic wrote: »

Just saw ISS pass in clear (bright-ish) kerry skies - fingers crossed the cloudless skies continue.

I can see feck all in the city.

Magellanic · 20-07-2020 11:28pm

Just spotted Neowise here on Dingle Peninsula. Clear skies have helped a lot.

Purple Mountain · 21-07-2020 12:13am

lolie wrote: »

Hard to tell yet as a good bit of cloud out now.

Iss is out tonight at 10.26, 12.03 and 1.40 if anyone has clear skies.

Thank you, saw ISS for first time there now

Gaoth Laidir · 21-07-2020 12:33am

It's all explained in a song...

M.T. Cranium · 21-07-2020 7:10am

It continues to show faintly with not much difference observed (by me at least) tonight vs previous night, no more than a 4th magnitude object but looks okay in binocs, marginal for naked eye findings.

Saw the ISS going over also. They should flash their lights just for a bit of fun.

oriel36 · 21-07-2020 7:31am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It's all explained in a song...

The idea is not to criticise those who wish to identify the comet against the background stars but rather to draw attention to the more expansive perspective based on position and motion of the comet to the position and motion of the Earth and other planets in a Sun centred system.

21st century observers use a framework where the stars move from horizon to horizon in circumpolar motion -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

The early heliocentric and antecedent geocentric astronomers used a framework where the Sun moves through the field of background stars annually -

https://community.dur.ac.uk/john.lucey/users/sun_ecliptic.gif

The astronomers in antiquity used the first seasonal appearance of the stars as a framework so although they framed it as a new group of stars rising with the Sun every 10 days (the Decans), it is really the change in position of the stars parallel to the orbital plane due to the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=48s

".. on account of the procession of the rising of Sirius by one day in the course of 4 years,.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360 days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the new year" Canopus Decree 238 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decan

Due to the calendar reform introduced by the Catholic Church in 1582, the Sun no longer drifts through the constellations ('age of aquarius' for example) as the correction is a further refinement of the leap day correction employed by our astronomical ancestors. Just as an orbit of the Sun is not exactly 365 rotations for one orbital circuit then neither is it exactly 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap181123.html

It is up to the reader or observer to put the position of Sirius in context of the Earth's position and orbital motion as it moves from an evening to dawn appearance rather than try to downplay the delicate observations needed to extract any daily rotational component from observations. Impossible to account for the seasons without this fact.

M.T. Cranium · 21-07-2020 11:32pm

Due to precession of the earth's orbit, the Sun at various times of the year will continue to move relative to the fixed star background. The Gregorian calendar correction only removed the error in the Julian calendar's approximation of 365.25 days per year; precession continues to occur over a 26,000 year cycle. This is why the astrological signs are one month out, the Sun was in those zodiac signs when astrology was first formulated in pre-Roman times, but nowadays, the Sun moves through each zodiac sign a month later than our birth signs would indicate. Example, Gemini runs from May 22 to June 21, but the Sun only reaches Gemini in late June in our times and leaves it in late July. Another two thousand years from now, the Sun will move through Gemini from late July to late August. I doubt whether astrologers will revise their birth date chronologies but if they are still even part of culture in twelve thousand years, their signs will be exactly opposite the reality of the times. (the purist would also add that over longer periods of time, the fixed stars move relative to each other and the sky will not always look the way it looks today, those changes take longer than one precession cycle however).

One thing this means is that our familiar winter stars will be summer stars in twelve thousand years, and Antares will have the stage to itself in November-December rather than May-June as at present.

What is precession in layman's terms? The earth's orbit is defined as the ecliptic plane. The spring equinox is defined to be that moment in time where the ecliptic plane intersects the equatorial plane in an upward direction. The autumn equinox is the moment where a second intersection occurs in the downward direction. But these "nodes" are slowly retreating in a retrograde direction. Nowadays the vernal equinox occurs before the Sun reaches Aries, Taurus and Gemini. But in two thousand years, it will occur between Pisces and Aries. The mid-June summer solstice (solar position at highest declination) that now occurs around the position of the Milky Way over Orion's shoulder will then occur close to Aldebaran in Taurus. Another two millenia on, and the summer solstice will be in Aries, with the vernal equinox between Aquarius and Pisces. The winter sky will look a lot different, Spica will be rising, Regulus will be high in the south, and Orion will be setting on a January night. This drift will continue until a full cycle is completed over 26,000 years. Polaris will not remain the "north star" as a result, eventually, that position will drift over towards a brighter star, Vega,which will eventually be the north star for a few millennia.

The Moon's orbit also has moving nodes, but they only take 18.6 years to do what the earth's orbital nodes require 26,000 years to do. So over a lifetime we are likely to see four or five of the Moon's orbital precession cycles. The Moon orbits at an angle of 5.1 deg to our ecliptic plane (not the equatorial plane). When the nodes are near the earth's orbital nodes, the range of declination of the Moon will be either larger or smaller than average by 5.1 deg, at this point we are at a point where the Moon's orbital nodes are near the declination maxima which means that the winter and summer lunar positions are near the ecliptic plane. The spring full moons recently have been riding lower than the ecliptic, and the autumn full moons are riding higher. The precession of the lunar orbital nodes are retrograde meaning that they fall back relative to the Moon's motion along the ecliptic (plus or minus the 5.1 deg), this leads to a slightly shorter "tropical" month than sidereal month. This is why lunar and solar eclipses tend to fall about a month earlier each year, as the nodes occur a bit earlier than the previous year (the Moon has to be close to a nodal position for there to be an eclipse opportunity; if the nodal dates are displaced from solar alignments, an interval can pass without an eclipse or at least without a total eclipse).

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 7:13am

It is much easier and more productive to work with the original framework in antiquity where a new grouping of stars appeared at dawn every 10 days ( the Decans) as the foundations of timekeeping than work with the more recent framework of Ptolemy.

In 21st century terms, the transition of the stars from left to right of the stationary/central Sun and parallel to the orbital plane was registered in antiquity as a transition of a star or planet from an evening to dawn appearance but quite dramatic today using a satellite free from any daily rotational component -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=60s

The location of a star to the central Sun and its glare provides the annual reference point for the orbital position of the Earth in its journey around the Sun. In antiquity they used the observation that the star Sirius skips a first annual appearance after the 4th cycle of 365 days therefore the parent observation for all timekeeping is 1461 days for 4 years or 1461 rotations for 4 orbital circuits. It really is a jewel of human innovation for those who make the effort to match what our ancestors did.

The 21st century innovation is the ability to peer towards the inner solar system by making the Sun the stationary reference point that it actually is, at least for solar system structure. Events behind the Sun close to the Sun's glare are now seen in permanent solar eclipse conditions so it is possible to resolve issues that other generations of astronomers could not.

There will always be those who conjure up contrived notions but I trust an Irish audience to be considerate and fair - in this case making that simple adjustment where the Earth moves causing the stars to change position from left to right of the stationary Sun. On this basis, observers expand their perspectives to referring celestial objects to the central Sun and a moving Earth rather than pasting the objects on a celestial sphere universe.

All the forensics of what went wrong can wait, the issue is making new perspectives more accessible to a wider audience. It is also crucial for understanding the dynamics behind the seasons and in meteorology.

M.T. Cranium · 22-07-2020 7:54am

I think an Irish audience can probably tell where things went wrong.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 8:25am

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

I think an Irish audience can probably tell where things went wrong.

I imagine that many are capable of making the transition to the more productive framework where the stars transition from left to right of a central/stationary Sun due to the orbital motion of the Earth and parallel to the orbital plane.

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

https://www.skyledge.net/Regulus-M44.jpg

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

The beehive cluster comes into view towards the end of the time lapse as it will move from an evening to dawn appearance over the coming weeks.

Without acceptance that the stars change position due to the Earth's orbital motion, Irish people will be stuck with celestial sphere descriptions and jargon favoured by you and other celestial sphere identification enthusiasts.

Within your realm of short term weather forecasting you are fine and enjoy the deserved appreciation of those here in the forum but expand into the wider perspectives of climate and weather on a foundation of planetary dynamics then this admiration shades off into exposure of many Irish sycophants. In this respect you are no better or worse than anyone else by attempting to bluff your way with astronomical terms while lacking the solid perspectives which underline them including the many modifications necessary to provide clearer explanations for a wider audience.

Oneiric 3 · 22-07-2020 11:25am

oriel36 wrote: »

Without acceptance that the stars change position due to the Earth's orbital motion, Irish people will be stuck with celestial sphere descriptions and jargon favoured by you and other celestial sphere identification enthusiasts.

Calibos · 22-07-2020 1:09pm

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 3:48pm

I shrug, the last time I was banned (think it was the astronomy forum) was by a Chelsea soccer supporter who had really no links to the forum yet really no problem as only a small minority like challenges at this level. It should be enough that I am not critical of people who take photos of a celestial object using a celestial sphere framework but people can do much better.

It is impossible to account for the seasons without the appreciation of the change in position of the stars from left to right of the central Sun much less the more involved issue of climate which requires planetary comparisons. The star Polaris too changes position in the same manner but in a smaller circle than the stars why lie on the orbital plane. The fact is that daily rotation swamps this observation, however, were the C3 camera to be directed towards Polaris, it too would have that change in position parallel to the orbital plane due solely to the Earth's orbital motion -

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

It is a wonderful thing to track the motion of the North/South poles across the fully illuminated face of the Earth or indeed the poles of any planet as they turn parallel to the orbital plane and the central Sun, after all, this accounts for the single day/night cycle at both poles regardless who bans me or tries to stop the fact from emerging. It is certainly not for celestial sphere enthusiasts or experimental theorists but belongs with those who realise what they are looking at with effort and familiarity -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

If planetary dynamics returned to weather and climate sciences or indeed solar system structural context, humanity would not be scarred by the fuss created by modelers who are clearly out of their depth or are nuisances.

nacho libre · 22-07-2020 5:10pm

It's akin to an Echo chamber.... You don't seem to realise few, if any, here are being swayed by your posts. In fact I'd say they are having the opposite effect of what you intend. Were you slighted at some stage? It seems like you have a need to prove you have superior knowledge to everyone else.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 5:43pm

nacho libre wrote: »

It's akin to an Echo chamber.... You don't seem to realise few, if any, here are being swayed by your posts. In fact I'd say they are having the opposite effect of what you intend. Were you slighted at some stage? It seems like you have a need to prove you have superior knowledge to everyone else.

You have no idea what is intended other than the time lapse demonstrates what is inspirational for those with the ability to interpret what is in front of them.
If you can't figure out what is happening using the C3 camera tracking with the Earth's orbital motion around the central Sun hidden behind the centre of the camera then that reflects your deficiency but I wouldn't bother to consider that as anything other than a lack of personal effort.

Go ahead and have your rants by demanding banning or whatever, encourage ostracism or some other weak defense - it is not going to make the slightest difference to the more expansive perspective provided by imaging and animated graphics -

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

Miserable people will always be miserable but for those who can experience inspiration, enjoy the beehive cluster as it comes into view because of the Earth's orbital motion and many of the other spectacles that periodically show up. That is only the beginning for cause and effect between the planet's motions and Earth experiences come into view for the first time in centuries.

nacho libre · 22-07-2020 6:27pm

oriel36 wrote: »

Miserable people will always be miserable but for those who can experience inspiration, enjoy the beehive cluster as it comes into view because of the Earth's orbital motion and many of the other spectacles that periodically show up. That is only the beginning for cause and effect between the planet's motions and Earth experiences come into view for the first time in centuries.

I am at loss to understand how you can conclude someone not agreeing with you must be miserable and therefore lacking inspiration

Nabber · 22-07-2020 6:50pm

So Neowise.....

There are good AR apps and star gazer apps that will help you pin point the comet.
I haven't seen the comet yet, but my guess is the Dublin sky line coupled with the light pollution isn't the best conditions.

I'm heading to Donegal next week so light pollution wont be an issue. Perhaps it's position relative to the sun could be an issue by then?

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 7:01pm

nacho libre wrote: »

I am at loss to understand how you can conclude someone not agreeing with you must be miserable and therefore lacking inspiration

I so enjoy humanity including its acceptance, albeit slowly, of descriptions which I once enjoyed alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=66s

I was waiting for Mercury to come into range of the camera and saw the comet while Mercury was passing between the slower moving Earth and stationary Sun. The reason Mercury moves faster than the change in position of the stars (retrograde motion) is because the planet moves faster than the Earth hence a new perspective from a 'fixed stars' background.

Every now and again, a more reasonable person sets themselves apart from being the 'teacher's pet' in this forum and sees our relationship to the Sun and the other planets as they truly exist -

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

A tip. The topic is bigger than the people inspecting it so although we participate in the motions of the Earth and experiences its effects, these motions are not subservient to a 'clockwork solar system' beloved of experimental theorists and celestial sphere enthusiasts. Inspiration is not a conviction, it is something bigger than the individual even if humanity has taken a holiday from this truth.

Gaoth Laidir · 22-07-2020 7:34pm

I think this may be apt...

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 7:45pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I think this may be apt...

Have a ball !, I don't mind creative insults when that is all people have left but perhaps being a teacher's pet as most seem content to be is less than helpful.

For serious meteorologists who wish to re-introduce the motions of the planet for climate and weather on a planetary scale, the incredible reference supplied by a satellite tracking with the Earth is the closest, other than the motions of the North/South poles parallel to the orbital plane, for discerning the single surface rotation accounting for the polar day/night cycle. When this surface rotation combines with daily rotation we get the seasons.

Not often the demonstration for the Earth's orbital motion is met with such funny reactions as though it were offensive ! -

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

Experimental modeling has its purposes but in the grand scheme of things it is exceptionally limited and even obstructive.

sweet_trip · 22-07-2020 8:14pm

I understand that this is a topic you feel very enthusiastic about but honestly most people see your walls of text as nothing but rambling and very incoherent and hard to understand, like you have a thesaurus in one hand and are trying to write a fantasy book.

Are you on the spectrum by any chance? Not intended as an insult. But just take it easy. Most people come here for basic weather discussion and wanting to know the position of the comet relative to the constellations, if its magnitude is fading and if it's going to be a cloudy night.

Anyway, here's a snap I took the other night around midnight. 30 second exposure.
Pretty accurate representation as to what it looked like to the naked eye.
Also funny that you can still see some sunshine at midnight in this country.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 8:28pm

sweet_trip wrote: »

Are you on the spectrum by any chance? Not intended as an insult. But just take it easy. Most people come here for basic weather discussion and wanting to know the position of the comet relative to the constellations, if its magnitude is fading and if it's going to be a cloudy night.

Keep them insults coming !.

The Sun is also a star so when dealing with orbital components between moving celestial objects, few can put the position and motion of the comet in context of a central star (our Sun) and the motion and position of a moving Earth. Maybe you would like to ignore our star so you can make the other stars important but such is the RA/Dec subculture.

Perhaps you should consider yourself on a spectrum and content to be locked inside a rotating celestial sphere where you are at the centre of your own personal universe -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

More reasonable people with more expansive perspectives which link the motions of the planet to meteorology recognise only the change in position of the background stars parallel to the orbital plane and from left to right of the stationary Sun -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=71s

Spectrum indeed !, you are allowed your identification exercise if that is all you can manage but people of perceptive and intellectual stature can extend beyond that and enjoy the imaging by interpreting what they are seeing.

Keep them snaps and insults coming, anyone would think you were another teacher's pet.

sweet_trip · 22-07-2020 8:36pm

oriel36 wrote: »

Keep them insults coming !.

The Sun is also a star so when dealing with orbital components between moving celestial objects, few can put the position and motion of the comet in context of a central star (our Sun) and the motion and position of a moving Earth. Maybe you would like to ignore our star so you can make the other stars important but such is the RA/Dec subculture.

Perhaps you should consider yourself on a spectrum and content to be locked inside a rotating celestial sphere where you are at the centre of your own personal universe -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

More reasonable people with more expansive perspectives which link the motions of the planet to meteorology recognise only the change in position of the background stars parallel to the orbital plane and from left to right of the stationary Sun -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AEluR-CBu4&t=71s

Spectrum indeed !, you are allowed your identification exercise if that is all you can manage but people of perceptive and intellectual stature can extend beyond that and enjoy the imaging by interpreting what they are seeing.

Keep them snaps and insults coming, anyone would think you were another teacher's pet.

Im not trying to insult you honestly. I'm just saying that most people, can't make heads or tails of what you're talking about.

listermint · 22-07-2020 8:42pm

sweet_trip wrote: »

Im not trying to insult you honestly. I'm just saying that most people, can't make heads or tails of what you're talking about.

Possibly because it's bluff and bluster.

A practical vomit of vocabulary with very little substance. Having read multiple posts it reads like AI language scrapped from other sites of source.

No one actually talks like this.

jogdish · 22-07-2020 8:44pm

Weather has been bad in Galway, only two night (last sat and sun) were good. I assume it's not (naked eye) visible much any more?

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 8:46pm

sweet_trip wrote: »

Im not trying to insult you honestly. I'm just saying that most people, can't make heads or tails of what you're talking about.

Anyone else want to portray themselves as within a spectrum of inanity which restricts the position and motion of the comet to identification alone within a celestial sphere universe ?. Good, then if they can't appreciate the orbital components and structure of the solar system then they have no business dealing with weather and climate on a planetary scale.

Some people can make sense of the appearance of the beehive cluster ( M44 Praesepe) and the change in position from left to right within range of a camera which looks towards the inner solar system and our parent star which inhabits that centre. It expresses motions and positions as they actually exist free of rotation and its rotating celestial sphere of stars as the Earth travels through space and along its orbit.

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

I am not insulting you, some will get it while others like yourself will not due to being lazy, docile, unquestioning and all the other traits which trap humanity in a celestial sphere monstrosity.

Keep them insults coming, after all, being sycophants for the head teacher of this forum is all that is coming out of that.

Oneiric 3 · 22-07-2020 8:52pm

Oriel is touching on some pretty high-level stuff here which I admit is beyond my capacity to understand. Maybe a separate, dedicated thread would be more apt for this sort of discussion? As this thread was opened just so we could talk about and share observations and pictures of this comet.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 9:03pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Oriel is touching on some pretty high-level stuff here which I admit is beyond my capacity to understand. Maybe a separate, dedicated thread would be more apt for this sort of discussion? As this thread was opened just so we could talk about and share observations and pictures of this comet.

What effin high level stuff ? - you can judge the position and motion of the comet from an orbital perspective where the Sun is central to all motions .

Go ahead and post pictures, it is fine as far as I am concerned but at least some try to make the effort to recognise the orbital motion of the Earth, what references are used and how this filters down into Earth sciences like climate.

Either people don't have the confidence or are too lazy to gauge what is in front of them .

o1s1n · 22-07-2020 9:06pm

oriel36 wrote: »

Either people don't have the confidence or are too lazy to gauge what is in front of them .

Maybe they just don't care?

I came here for comet photos, not the science version of Deepak Chopra.

sweet_trip · 22-07-2020 9:09pm

oriel36 wrote: »

What effin high level stuff ? - you can judge the position and motion of the comet from an orbital perspective where the Sun is central to all motions .

Why do you find it so hard to believe nobody has a clue what you're talking about? This is a weather forum and you're talking in riddles.

Can you just talk in more simple terms, less paragraphs.

Calibos · 22-07-2020 9:21pm

Honestly, like someone else said, his posts read like an AI trying to pass a Turing Test. An uncanny valley of word vomit. If its a real person its someone on the Spectrum or BP in a manic phase.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 9:39pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Maybe they just don't care?

No doubt people scarred by experimental theorists conjuring 'climate change' into existence would have people care, however, to appreciate what the Earth science of climate is requires the dynamics of the Earth in a Sun centred system.

I am entirely content with the insight provided by a 21st century satellite which demonstrates that Earth travels around the Sun so yes, if people do not care then there is nothing I would do about it. In contrast, those who make the slightest effort can catch the glimpse of a bigger picture where they actually look towards the inner solar system and the relationship of all celestial objects in relation to our central stationary star.

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?objects=sun-moon-c2020f3-mercury-venus-mars-jupiter-saturn-uranus-neptune-pluto&localdata=51.48%7C0%7CGreenwich%2C+United+Kingdom%7CEurope%2FLondon%7C0&obj=c2020f3&h=12&m=15&date=2020-07-17#ra|7.6974701803474765|dec|26.031450313098624|fov|50

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

There is a saying among genuine astronomers ( which excludes celestial sphere enthusiasts) -

“You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself.”
Galileo

The fact is that some can use 21st century imaging to good effect while others are gladly within a lamentable spectrum of inanity at the centre of their own rotating celestial sphere universe inherited from late 17th century England.

Some get it while others will not, that is the best I can do for contributors to this forum.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 9:46pm

Calibos wrote: »

Honestly, like someone else said, his posts read like an AI trying to pass a Turing Test. An uncanny valley of word vomit. If its a real person its someone on the Spectrum or BP in a manic phase.

Maybe MT will give you a lollipop for being a good pet but then again, you are not as creative as others when it comes to insulting which looks like self-mockery to me.

I don't suffer mathematical bluffers and especially when I have the imaging power of 21st century satellites to back up the perspectives.

Oneiric 3 · 22-07-2020 10:06pm

Me thinks that much of this is down to some long-standing grudge Oriel holds, for whatever reason, against M.T. True, I don't understand orbital motions all that well (and to be frank, I couldn't care less) but one thing I am astute in is reading people and they're not so obvious motivations.

pistolpetes11 · 22-07-2020 10:31pm

MOD NOTE

Please don’t post in this thread again , if you wish to open a thread for your own musings about then do so , stop hijacking other threads

oriel36 wrote: »

What effin high level stuff ? - you can judge the position and motion of the comet from an orbital perspective where the Sun is central to all motions .

Go ahead and post pictures, it is fine as far as I am concerned but at least some try to make the effort to recognise the orbital motion of the Earth, what references are used and how this filters down into Earth sciences like climate.

Either people don't have the confidence or are too lazy to gauge what is in front of them .

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 10:34pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Me thinks that much of this is down to some long-standing grudge Oriel holds, for whatever reason, against M.T. True, I don't understand orbital motions all that well (and to be frank, I couldn't care less) but one thing I am astute in is reading people and they're not so obvious motivations.

Me thinks indeed !, dealing with empirical pimps never was the issue - the observations are there for those who can make sense of them by reasoning things through as individuals instead of playing teacher's pet to a bluffer.

MT is no more or less the same dismal mixture of experimental theorist and celestial sphere enthusiast which constitutes the vandalism Newton visited on astronomy which can be recognised by people of a more discerning and expansive nature -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean distances from the sun.... for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth, or the earth about the sun." Newton

Only a pure gob****e would imagine an equivalency of " whether of the sun about the earth, or of the earth about the sun... for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth, or the earth about the sun." Newton

The framework of the great heliocentric astronomers was based on the motion of the Sun directly through the constellations equating to the Earth's motion through the same field of background stars -

https://community.dur.ac.uk/john.lucey/users/sun_ecliptic.gif

"Moreover, we see the other five planets also retrograde at times, and
stationary at either end [of the regression]. And whereas the sun
always advances along its own direct path, they wander in various
ways, straying sometimes to the south and sometimes to the north; that
is why they are called "planets" [wanderers]. Copernicus

I have changed this due to the fact that we now have a satellite tracking with the Earth and free of daily rotation to permit the transition of the stars from left to right of the stationary Sun parallel to the orbital plane due to the orbital motion of the Earth.

https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/

The Sun around the Earth was an axiom for daily rotation so no equivalency exists with the Earth around the Sun. The same bluffing of the empirical pimp in this forum is imitating Newton like a hapless monkey wrecking havoc on the noble discipline of astronomy.

oriel36 · 22-07-2020 10:35pm

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

MOD NOTE

Please don’t post in this thread again , if you wish to open a thread for your own musings about then do so , stop hijacking other threads

Live with the term 'sycophants' as that is what all the insults amount to.

Maybe Darwin was right -

" "The careless, squalid, unaspiring Irishman multiplies like rabbits: the frugal, foreseeing, self-respecting, ambitious Scot, stern in his morality, spiritual in his faith, sagacious and disciplined in his intelligence, passes his best years in struggle and in celibacy, marries late, and leaves few behind him. Given a land originally peopled by a thousand Saxons and a thousand Celts—and in a dozen generations five-sixths of the population would be Celts, but five-sixths of the property, of the power, of the intellect, would belong to the one-sixth of Saxons that remained. In the eternal 'struggle for existence,' it would be the inferior and less favoured race that had prevailed—and prevailed by virtue not of its good qualities but of its faults." Darwin, Descent of Man (Page 174)

http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?pageseq=242&itemID=F937.1&viewtype=text

So much for this Irish forum.

pistolpetes11 · 22-07-2020 10:40pm

oriel36 wrote: »

Live with the term sycophants and that is what it amounts to.

And you’re out of here ......

jogdish · 22-07-2020 10:43pm

Wanted to ask, are we still able to see the comet much ? when does it vanish from naked eye visibility ?

Oneiric 3 · 22-07-2020 11:04pm

oriel36 wrote: »

MT is no more or less the same dismal mixture of experimental theorist and celestial sphere enthusiast which constitutes the vandalism Newton visited on astronomy which can be recognised by people of a more discerning and expansive nature -

M.T also has a heart bigger than the sun (of which I can personally attest) and this is of far more value in real terms than these supposed accusations you throw his way here. Who really cares about Newton? I mean, really? Whether the earth spins around the sun, or whether the sun spins around the earth, it doesn't really matter in the great scheme of things.

And by the way.. F//K Darwin and everything that he stood for.

Popoutman · 22-07-2020 11:23pm

Here's a processed Neowise from last Saturday night, 24 ten-second exposures, Canon 6d, 50mm lens at f/2.5, ISO set at the standard highest dynamic range for a 6d of ISO1600. Unguided on a driven German equatorial mount.

Stacked in DeepSkyStacker and (attempted) gradient removal in PixInsight.

Not the most aesthetically pleasing, but a nice enough view of both tails, the gas/ion tail being ~20 degrees long up near M81/M82. I know I have banding issues with the processing, I'll figure that out again at some point. Consider it a work in progress..

I figured it would be about the only time I'd get to see it in Irish skies at this brightness, such a pretty sight.

Comet NeoWise

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