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Home heating automation

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    #1472
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    Valhallapt wrote: »
    Has anyone gone down the DIY path? I am thinking of using an aqara relay alongside a physical push button. The aqara temperature sensors and presence sensors are quite good and it works well with HomeKit. Are there any legal consequences to doing this?

    If the Aquara relay is type approved to switch mains voltage, then Bob's you uncle, but trawl back here for criticism of Chinese mains devices and the validity of their CE markings. Trawl back also to read the many wondrous and innovative approaches using relays and SonOffs, alexa and home kit and IFTTT and Rasberry Pi and mini Linux boards etc. There's likely a whole repository on Github for home smart stat implementations, and you can practically code alexa/homekit/google device responses with conditional options. The pursuit of this belongs to another thread though, most would have enough on their plate dealing with the intricacies of their CH logical and physical configurations, without having to build their smart stat from scratch. That said, knock yourself out! What if it takes you two years and a divorce, it'll be all your own work!


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    #1473
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    deezell wrote: »
    What if it takes you two years and a divorce, it'll be all your own work!

    :pac::pac::pac:


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    #1474
    john_doe.
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭john_doe.


    limnam wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:

    Given the time it's taking me to find an installer for the Drayton in Cork , might not be a bad call :-)


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    #1475
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    john_doe. wrote: »
    Given the time it's taking me to find an installer for the Drayton in Cork , might not be a bad call :-)

    Only ever used Tado and with some guidance from Deezell it was a fairly straight forward setup.

    Is there much involved in Drayton?


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    #1476
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    limnam wrote: »
    Only ever used Tado and with some guidance from Deezell it was a fairly straight forward setup.

    Is there much involved in Drayton?

    For two zones if you already have a standard backplate timer controller. it's just swap the controller. For 3 zone you need to use the Drayton backplate, so a small bit of rewiring from old backplate to new. No more difficult than a Tado ext kit or a nest heatlink, CH stats are wireless so pop them anywhere in the zone, and turn up full/or remove and link wires of redundant mechanical stats.


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    #1477
    Nokia08
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭Nokia08


    Hey all,

    I've been reading through this extensive thread and have been reading and noticed very similar systems that may work for me but I wasn't sure.

    So I'm looking for a smart system for my system, I have a oil burner, with a timer system. 2/3 zones (One upstairs, one downstairs and if they're both off just heats the water).

    I have reached out already to Tado and they have said they hadn't a system for me. I've included the photo's i sent to them also.

    Any help would be greatly appricated!

    Many thanks.


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    #1478
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    Nokia08 wrote: »
    Hey all,

    I've been reading through this extensive thread and have been reading and noticed very similar systems that may work for me but I wasn't sure.

    So I'm looking for a smart system for my system, I have a oil burner, with a timer system. 2/3 zones (One upstairs, one downstairs and if they're both off just heads the water).

    I have reached out already to Tado and they have said they hadn't a system for me. I've included the photo's i sent to them also.

    Any help would be greatly appricated!

    Many thanks.
    You'd need to look a bit closer at your system. Do you have thermostats? Do the two switches control valves or circulation pumps? Is there a thermostat on the HW cylinder? Does the timer have to be set on for all heating events? And finally, when only heating HW, is there a general pump comes on into the boiler, or is the cylinder heated by convection (gravity flow) from the boiler. Once the general flow diagram mechanics of the system is known, it will be easier to determine which system is nest suited to switch and control the different parts.


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    #1479
    Nokia08
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭Nokia08


    deezell wrote: »
    You'd need to look a bit closer at your system. Do you have thermostats? Do the two switches control valves or circulation pumps? Is there a thermostat on the HW cylinder? Does the timer have to be set on for all heating events? And finally, when only heating HW, is there a general pump comes on into the boiler, or is the cylinder heated by convection (gravity flow) from the boiler. Once the general flow diagram mechanics of the system is known, it will be easier to determine which system is nest suited to switch and control the different parts.

    These are actually awesome Questions to ask, I honestly could be working on assumptions but I'm not sure. I have a plumber coming to do some work in a week or two I can ask him these questions and get back to this thread!

    Thanks !


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    #1480
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Nokia08 wrote: »
    These are actually awesome Questions to ask, I honestly could be working on assumptions but I'm not sure. I have a plumber coming to do some work in a week or two I can ask him these questions and get back to this thread!

    Thanks !

    I have more or less the same setup as you and had my boiler serviced last week. I asked him about getting a smart system in to control everything and he more or less said it can be done but it’s more hassle than it’s worth, albeit he didn’t seem overly interested in explaining. The system was in the house when we moved in, I had a fully programmable three zone system in my previous rented home and find this one so frustrating, constantly switching zones on and off. At this stage I have given up and left both zones on all the time.

    In my case the zone switches are on the opposite side of the house to the timer which seems bonkers but there you go. I’ll be interested to hear any recommendations you get if you wouldn’t mind sharing when the time comes.


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    #1481
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    KN Networks are currently in the house installing the Nest I got for switching to Electric Ireland. The guy reckons I have to leave my wall stats in place and turn them up to use this? Surely they can be looped out? Also he doesn't have the second Nest for upstairs says its not needed currently I have 3 zones (Up/Down and Hot water) with a single nest he's going to leave me with 2 right - heat and hot water?


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    #1482
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    tnegun wrote: »
    KN Networks are currently in the house installing the Nest I got for switching to Electric Ireland. The guy reckons I have to leave my wall stats in place and turn them up to use this? Surely they can be looped out? Also he doesn't have the second Nest for upstairs says its not needed currently I have 3 zones (Up/Down and Hot water) with a single nest he's going to leave me with 2 right - heat and hot water?

    Correct


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    #1483
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    Did you order 2nd nest?


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    #1484
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Correct
    FFS :mad: worse off than I am.


    deezell wrote: »
    Did you order 2nd nest?
    yes said there is no record of it and he doesn't have one plus that its not needed going to have a conversation with him now


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    #1485
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    tnegun wrote: »
    FFS :mad: worse off than I am.




    yes said there is no record of it and he doesn't have one plus that its not needed going to have a conversation with him now
    You would generally have to pay full price for additional Nest, but install might be included so goid value overall. Not linking out old stats is just lazy. KN probaly on a basic fee for install, they just want in and out.


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    #1486
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Yeah blaming the lack of wires looks like the second stat was ordered but notified to him. Tried to leave without the hot water working!! Also they won't work in the hot press where all the wires he needs are!


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    #1487
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    tnegun wrote: »
    Yeah blaming the lack of wires looks like the second stat was ordered but notified to him. Tried to leave without the hot water working!! Also they won't work in the hot press where all the wires he needs are!

    I rang and wanted to get this offer, unfortunately the insta that KN do the install, I am a qualified Sparks and would rather do it myself, unfortunately had to decline then offer,

    It’s exactly for your reasons why I’d rather install myself, they just want to get out as quick as possible


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    #1488
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Only went with them as I wanted it installed by a "Pro" as it is I can do better myself. They're arranging a second visit with the second nest and will move it to the hot press. This guy was only trained up last week and never worked on boilers before so wasn't an RGI is that even legal?


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    #1489
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    maxamillius wrote: »
    I rang and wanted to get this offer, unfortunately the insta that KN do the install, I am a qualified Sparks and would rather do it myself, unfortunately had to decline then offer,

    It’s exactly for your reasons why I’d rather install myself, they just want to get out as quick as possible

    Get it, have them out, I'm sure the guy would be more then delighted to have a cup of tea, let you fit and go off early.


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    #1490
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    The poor chaps working in Dublin have all been shipped up from all over and are living in hotels, the guy was telling me he was of FTTH in Cork 2 weeks ago and guys were being pulled from Waterford and Donegal to do Nest installs as jobs were finishing up. They got 2 days in the training room before being passed to install. So they'll be glad of the tea I got it all out of him over a cup of tea at the end of the job!!


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    #1491
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    tnegun wrote: »
    Only went with them as I wanted it installed by a "Pro" as it is I can do better myself. They're arranging a second visit with the second nest and will move it to the hot press. This guy was only trained up last week and never worked on boilers before so wasn't an RGI is that even legal?
    In theory the install can be done by diy, but once it's a paid for install the installer would need to be a sparks, an engineer, or a 'trained up' domestic appliance installer, kind of guys who deliver and put in your new hob (ahm here to install yawr Hawb, Mam, as the tv ad goes). As you had a zoned system, the connections from the heatlink (wireless receiver) box should go to the motorised valves, no need to wire to the boiler as these valves have their own relays connected to the boiler SL or call for heat terminals. He may have bypassed these altogether and wired the heatlink straight to the boiler, who knows. Also, I presume he left your single nest stat sitting loose powered by a little phone charger. It's entirely possible to wall mount the Nest(s) on the site of the original stats, and by isolating the wire pairs to the stats from the mains or zone timer, and the return to the zone valves, you can use this pair to carry 12v from the Heatlink relay back to the Nest to power it. This would require the installer to identify the wires going to and returning from the old stats, perhaps a bridge too far or a task too time consuming for a briefly trained network cable installer.


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    #1492
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Just spent the last two hours moving it to the hot press, everything needed was there. The installer did nothing more than make an unneeded hole in the wall, take power from the spur to the boiler to the heat link, combine the up and downstairs stats to the heat on terminal of the heat link and connect the hot water to the hot water terminal. Then turned both room stats to 30c.

    In fairness to him it was a mjor PITA to figure out what was going on in the wiring centre as the diagram on the box didn't match reality then the terminals on the heat link are tiny and fiddley. Will see can I get the next guy to fit the second in there too. The installer had 6 jobs on for today and I can't see how he could get through them if everyone was multizoned and connected properly.

    Any suggestions on a suitable wiring harness for connecting the heatlink to the wiring centre? I used some left over cable but am not happy with it.


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    #1493
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Get it, have them out, I'm sure the guy would be more then delighted to have a cup of tea, let you fit and go off early.

    Ye to be fair I was thinking of doing that, just wasn’t sure how willing they would be to not do the job themselves


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    #1494
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    maxamillius wrote: »
    Ye to be fair I was thinking of doing that, just wasn’t sure how willing they would be to not do the job themselves

    Nothing stopping anyone going at an install after they're gone anyway and if the deal is worth it as in much cheaper then I see this as a plus.


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    #1495
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    tnegun wrote: »
    Just spent the last two hours moving it to the hot press, everything needed was there. ......
    Any suggestions on a suitable wiring harness for connecting the heatlink to the wiring centre? I used some left over cable but am not happy with it.

    Get a few metres of 1.5 twin flex, white covered. It's easy enough to write on the white part to aid later identification, e.g. zone 1, HW etc. I'm assuming the zone valve wiring is terminated and cross connected at the wiring centre. Is it a purpose made centre with labelled terminals, or a home made one with rows of connector strips in a box.


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    #1496
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    Purpose made wiring centre / lex box.


    NRGLex_SCM2.jpg


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    #1497
    The_Scary_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭The_Scary_Man


    Hi,

    I have an engineer booked for the 13th to install a Nest I got from Electric Ireland, I currently have two zones (Upstairs and Downstairs) and Hot Water running from the programmer on the boiler.

    If I only have the one nest will I lose control on the upstairs zone?

    From what I read on the Nest website the system can run with a mix of Nest and older stats so my plan was to replace the older stat upstairs next month.
    If you have multiple thermostats in your home, you can replace any or all of them with a Nest
    Thermostat. You won’t need to replace all of your current thermostats, they’ll keep
    controlling your system just like they always have, you shouldn’t need to change any settings.

    If you’re only going to replace one of your current thermostats with a Nest Thermostat, we
    recommend that you replace the one in your main living area. That way it can see when
    you’re home, learn what temperatures you prefer, and automatically help you save energy.


    Will I need to order another Nest prior to the install in order for the heating to continue to work as it is?


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    #1498
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    The_Scary_Man wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have an engineer booked for the 13th to install a Nest I got from Electric Ireland, I currently have two zones (Upstairs and Downstairs) and Hot Water running from the programmer on the boiler.

    If I only have the one nest will I lose control on the upstairs zone?

    From what I read on the Nest website the system can run with a mix of Nest and older stats so my plan was to replace the older stat upstairs next month.




    Will I need to order another Nest prior to the install in order for the heating to continue to work as it is?

    You will lose say upstairs so it will be ran by nest downstairs.

    You can of course add another at a later date.


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    #1499
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭deezell


    It might be economical to add the extra stat now and have both installed together rather than waiting 6 months for a separate and non discounted install. Do I recall some posts here though where lads managed to blag both stats at the free or discount rate by some loophole in the application process?


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    #1500
    The_Scary_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭The_Scary_Man


    Cheers Punisher, is adding the second Nest stat something I could do myself once the first one is installed?


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    #1501
    mcquaim
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭mcquaim


    Hi folks,

    I added this thread last week:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058025647

    After conversations with various Tado support staff they say they Tado simply isn't compatible with this setup and apart from hard wiring thermostats no other alterations can make it compatible.

    I'm not overly confident this is fully correct but I just can't get any information so I will return all the Tado stuff to Amazon tomorrow.

    I just thought on the off chance someone within this thread hadn't seen the one I created and perhaps had any input/thoughts they'd like to add.

    Cheers,
    Mac


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