Labour Saving and General Guntering

stock> · 19-04-2015 12:33pm

mickdw wrote: »

There is a fair chance the concrete with the water added would still make the grade as the 40N mix would likely reach alittle over 40 in normal circumstances.
I would say 10 percent reduction maybe.

Effects of too much mixing water

Whilst adding water will in some cases facilitate easier placing, the disadvantages of this include the following:

Lower compressive strengths.
Segregation of the concrete mix under certain conditions resulting in variable quality throughout the concrete mass.
Cracking - with too much water, there will be lower tensile strength, and a tendency towards high shrinkage and subsequent cracking.
Dusting and scaling - bleeding of excess water brings too many fines to the surface of floors.
Sand streaks - excess water bleeding up the sides of forms washes out cement paste and leaves an unsightly streaked surface.
Contamination - too much water in concrete placed on grades causes contamination from the subgrade with the concrete leading to an array of quality problems.
Permeability - voids left as excess water evaporates invite water to seep through walls and floors.
Dead losses - costly repairs, or in extreme cases, demolition and re-building at contractor's expense.

http://www.holcim.com.au/products-and-services/tools-faqs-and-resources/do-it-yourself-diy/excess-water-in-concrete.html

Approximate compressive strengths for given water:cementitious ratios are shown below.

Cementitious binder needs less than half its own weight of water to turn concrete into durable construction material.

The "wetter" this cementitious paste is, the weaker it is.

td5man · 19-04-2015 12:46pm

darragh_haven wrote: »

When i was an engineer on the construction of cork airport, we were using 50N concrete for all columns and beams. Particular floor slabs were 50N too but mostly 40N and no water added. Concrete of that strenght can be worked, you just need proper concrete men.

worked with 80N concrete in tunnels in London

Got a cancelled load from a reservoir once can't remember if it was 60 or 80n serious stuff .

onyerbikepat · 19-04-2015 1:12pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Was bolloxed after it yesterday. Getting too old for it I reckon

Working cement is the one job that you need plenty of men with shovels.

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 1:16pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Working cement is the one job that you need plenty of men with shovels.

try it on your own

Nekarsulm · 19-04-2015 1:30pm

Couple of pics of a single slat lifter, that i made a few years ago.

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 1:33pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Couple of pics of a single slat lifter, that i made a few years ago.

now that is the **** right there.

What a job...well done Nek

ellewood · 19-04-2015 3:26pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Was bolloxed after it yesterday. Getting too old for it I reckon

Tis hard work alright when youre not used to it:D

Had to lay some on a fair slope and cuoldnt wet it, or twould run and that was just pure torture

I dont know how lads do it every week - they earn whatever they are paid anyways

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 4:04pm

ellewood wrote: »

Tis hard work alright when youre not used to it:D

Had to lay some on a fair slope and cuoldnt wet it, or twould run and that was just pure torture

I dont know how lads do it every week - they earn whatever they are paid anyways

Couldn't agree more

darragh_haven · 19-04-2015 5:20pm

ganmo wrote: »

thats fightin talk

just mean you need numbers for laying concrete. torture on your own

rangler1 · 19-04-2015 5:45pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Was bolloxed after it yesterday. Getting too old for it I reckon

I think Chris Lynch hires out ''magic screeds'', I wouldn't go near concrete on my own without one....really give a professional finish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJknqkj5-k

Have used one but it was in another county

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 6:03pm

rangler1 wrote: »

I think Chris Lynch hires out ''magic screeds'', I wouldn't go near concrete on my own without one....really give a professional finish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJknqkj5-k

Have used one but it was in another county

That looks like a right job that.

stock> · 19-04-2015 6:07pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpX8VCjYN6M

emaherx · 19-04-2015 6:36pm

I have a 698T that suffers from a combination of neglect and being a 600 series MF. Mudguards are now so bad that they no longer are able to support the weight of the lights.

7EEE598328F1402D8861C329FBE9B333-0000321494-0003753361-00800L-B32B037ABFE046CB8AD6DB8CB75BBC75.jpg

so off they come, also welded in some box section to support the new mudguards.

B7D6406B7BBD469D95DE5BAAFC331536-0000321494-0003753363-00800L-FB5E9E232F154215BC88CF3B09439196.jpg

cut and folded some steal.

16068A73E30F4AD6A3C2290B83AC38C0-0000321494-0003753359-00800L-f.jpg

and finally

4EF936EE917941A2ACE1DE0B0E2D4F24-0000321494-0003753364-00800L-65A1860CADAF4FF6B10AF034A6644CD6.jpg

Still a work in progress and just the start of a general clean up of this old tractor.

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 6:37pm

stock> wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpX8VCjYN6M

That's a serious credit there. Noticed they have like a little sleigh they pull up and down the slopes too. An experienced team with a way of working make it look so easy

massey woman · 19-04-2015 10:03pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I've no doubt it can be but pure hardship id say unless you've a way of working it. How much would it impact the strength by adding water?

I attended an Irish Cement presentation many years ago in Bolton Street and they advised that for every1%excess water added theres a consequential 9% reduction in strength
Now we all know that 1% is very little and very often there are cube and core failures as a result of honeycombing caused x excess h2o
So as a result all the concrete suppliers have a tick box on their dockets stating water added on site
In the event of a strength issue this absolves the supplier of any responsibility

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 10:12pm

massey woman wrote: »

I attended an Irish Cement presentation many years ago in Bolton Street and they advised that for every1%excess water added theres a consequential 9% reduction in strength
Now we all know that 1% is very little and very often there are cube and core failures as a result of honeycombing caused x excess h2o
So as a result all the concrete suppliers have a tick box on their dockets stating water added on site
In the event of a strength issue this absolves the supplier of any responsibility

I noticed that and wondered why it was there.

The cement arrives bone dry tho in the bottle. That couldn't be the way it's supposed to be tho as you'd never work it

gctest50 · 19-04-2015 10:21pm

can't beat an early mornin start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5iTnpitN0Y

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 10:24pm

gctest50 wrote: »

can't beat an early mornin start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5iTnpitN0Y

That's just showing off. Jaysus I feel like an amateur with me piece of timber tapping away

massey woman · 19-04-2015 10:26pm

Reggie. wrote: »

I noticed that and wondered why it was there.

The cement arrives bone dry tho in the bottle. That couldn't be the way it's supposed to be tho as you'd never work it

If you can see the cement then theres a mixer problem at the plant
Maybe you mean concrete
if the cement was visible the bottle would be fukkd

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 10:29pm

massey woman wrote: »

If you can see the cement then theres a mixer problem at the plant
Maybe you mean concrete
if the cement was visible the bottle would be fukkd

I mean the concrete comes from the bottle very dry as in lumps. No flow in it at all

keep going · 19-04-2015 10:41pm

Apart from silage slabs most concrete jobs on farms are none the worse for adding some water, just try breaking it out after 20 years.isnt it a 100 years before it reachs max strength anyway but higher newton strengthen s quicker.

massey woman · 19-04-2015 10:43pm

keep going wrote: »

Apart from silage slabs most concrete jobs on farms are none the worse for adding some water, just try breaking it out after 20 years.isnt it a 100 years before it reachs max strength anyway but higher newton strengthen s quicker.

10 days to go off
30 years to maturity and after 40 starts to deteriorate

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 10:46pm

massey woman wrote: »

10 days to go off
30 years to maturity and after 40 starts to deteriorate

I thought it was 3 weeks until concrete hit it's full strength

massey woman · 19-04-2015 10:48pm

technically incrementally increasing in strength x 30 years afai remember

stock> · 19-04-2015 10:52pm

gctest50 wrote: »

can't beat an early mornin start

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5iTnpitN0Y

Them lads are using a roller a great job they are, then finishing it with a bull float & magic screed. The final finish was a ride on powerfloat. Ambient temperature can play a large part in the curing of concrete which is why a lot of concrete crews in hotter climes work at night or early morning.

stock> · 19-04-2015 11:02pm

massey woman wrote: »

technically incrementally increasing in strength x 30 years afai remember

Within 24hrs it reaches 3/4 strength but not full cured, full strength by 21 days and continues to cure. The use of admixtures will alter the curing process in different ways depending on what is wanted either slowing or speeding up the curing time.
The addition of aluminium power to a mix causes the concrete to foam and not to be as dense but it gives off hydrogen gas in the process.
The use of super plasticizers will decrease the slump but increase the workability allowing the concrete to be pumped to great distances.
Self compacting concrete is now readily available.

Reggie. · 19-04-2015 11:10pm

stock> wrote: »

Within 24hrs it reaches 3/4 strength but not full cured, full strength by 21 days and continues to cure. The use of admixtures will alter the curing process in different ways depending on what is wanted either slowing or speeding up the curing time.
The addition of aluminium power to a mix causes the concrete to foam and not to be as dense but it gives off hydrogen gas in the process.
The use of super plasticizers will decrease the slump but increase the workability allowing the concrete to be pumped to great distances.
Self compacting concrete is now readily available.

What would you make of the fibre added to concrete. It's benefits if any

I said · 19-04-2015 11:45pm

massey woman wrote: »

10 days to go off
30 years to maturity and after 40 starts to deteriorate

What sort of depth or does it matter have a floor of a shed in and it's six inches thick

stock> · 19-04-2015 11:55pm

Reggie. wrote: »

What would you make of the fibre added to concrete. It's benefits if any

Yes not as good as correctly placed and tied rebar but better than unreinforced concrete, the secret to good floors or yards is the underlying substructure. Poor foundation then no matter what depth of concrete or reinforcement will stop it cracking.

What hasn't been mentioned here is the effect of concrete cancer or what sulphides or other naturally occurring substances can do to weaken concrete.................

td5man · 20-04-2015 12:36am

Hate fibre in concrete hard to get a nice finish on it especially if you're power floating it.
4 inches of concrete is enough for most shed floors if you have a good base, 5-6 if using a forklift or loader on it regularly.

Reggie. · 20-04-2015 5:11am

td5man wrote: »

Hate fibre in concrete hard to get a nice finish on it especially if you're power floating it.
4 inches of concrete is enough for most shed floors if you have a good base, 5-6 if using a forklift or loader on it regularly.

But most farm sheds and yards would be looking for a rough finish would they not

Muckit · 20-04-2015 6:51am

"foxy wrote:

The cube test is the real indicator of the final strength of a mix. This gives the final Newton strength.

Great craic in college making up the cubes and crushing them. See who could make the strongest. Some bang when they'd go. Thank God for the safety cage around them.

Anyone can and should take sample cubes and send them off to be tested. especially if getting a few loads. A lot of money to be leaving to chance. It's like spreading fertiliser without soil testing only worse because you can't correct it the following year! !

td5man · 20-04-2015 8:44am

Reggie. wrote: »

But most farm sheds and yards would be looking for a rough finish would they not

There's rough and there's rough iykwim.

td5man · 20-04-2015 8:48am

Muckit wrote: »

Great craic in college making up the cubes and crushing them. See who could make the strongest. Some bang when they'd go. Thank God for the safety cage around them.

Anyone can and should take sample cubes and send them off to be tested. especially if getting a few loads. A lot of money to be leaving to chance. It's like spreading fertiliser without soil testing only worse because you can't correct it the following year! !

Kilsaran have a lad going round taking cubes on site must be check the customer hasn't added too much water.

Reggie. · 20-04-2015 8:50am

td5man wrote: »

There's rough and there's rough iykwim.

I got a near dead smooth unintentional finish on one pad but there was alot of water added tho which wasn't ideal.

Count Mondego · 20-04-2015 9:38am

Muckit wrote: »

Anyone can and should take sample cubes and send them off to be tested. especially if getting a few loads. A lot of money to be leaving to chance. It's like spreading fertiliser without soil testing only worse because you can't correct it the following year! !

Is it not too late at that stage? I'd imagine it takes a few days for the results to come back and you're floor is well set by then. Would you get compensation or are they required to replace it?

foxy farmer · 20-04-2015 9:54am

I got one load of readymix here back in 97 for the wall of a tank. It was like watching marbles coming out of the drum. Almost no sand in the mix. Only for pokering the living daylights out of it I'd say it would be porous. Driver said it was the first load out that morning after bank holiday.
Same happened to another lad in the parish back in 08. Dept insisted that the wall be demolished. It was so bad that you could see through it in places. Some dose with all the Grant spec reinforcing.

rangler1 · 20-04-2015 10:37am

Reggie. wrote: »

I got a near dead smooth unintentional finish on one pad but there was alot of water added tho which wasn't ideal.

Yes but you'll get a nice finish with a power screed without overdoing the water that you wont's get with a plank

Reggie. · 20-04-2015 10:39am

rangler1 wrote: »

Yes but you'll get a nice finish with a power screed without overdoing the water that you wont's get with a plank

Oh I fully understand that. Just was saying in relation to fibre being in the concrete

have2flushtwice · 20-04-2015 10:55pm

We put down a floor in a shed in 2004, it was 25 x 45 ft., and 4 inches in most of it. No steel mesh. The midde of a hayshed.
We mixed it with gravel at 6 to 1, in a mixer, wheeled it in and leveled with a 4x2 over the shapes we had made, then moved to the next bit and so on. One 4x2 got wedged in and is still there
wde did it this way because money was tight and couldn't afford the load at once.
Turned out it was the same price as mixing by hand. . ..
Ten years on, and countless jcbs sitting on their jacks and buckets later, there's not a crack to be seen.
And it was laid in November and December.

Nekarsulm · 21-04-2015 1:10pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwwpeZK2YVc

One for Reggie, I think!

Nekarsulm · 21-04-2015 1:10pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwwpeZK2YVc

One for Reggie, I think!

Sorry about double post, guys.......

renandstimpy · 24-04-2015 10:09pm

Decided this year is the last time im baling out all the 90 gallon troughs (plastic ones ) around the farm.. so fitted this jfc 1 inch drain off not really cheap at €7 each x 2 for each trough so €14 a trough but should last for years .A 34mm hole is perfect for them ... i used a bit that bores out for carcass hinges in kitchen doors.

recycled springs from neighbours old trampoline .. can now set arms to size for machines without pulling in and out also stops arms from hitting tyres which they were always doing when in up position with nothing on .

Reggie. · 24-04-2015 10:15pm

renandstimpy wrote: »

Decided this year is the last time im baling out all the 90 gallon troughs (plastic ones ) around the farm.. so fitted this jfc 1 inch drain off not really cheap at €7 each x 2 for each trough so €14 a trough but should last for years .A 34mm hole is perfect for them ... i used a bit that bores out for carcass hinges in kitchen doors.

recycled springs from neighbours old trampoline .. can now set arms to size for machines without pulling in and out also stops arms from hitting tyres which they were always doing when in up position with nothing on .

Great stuff. Well done lad

onyerbikepat · 24-04-2015 10:23pm

I didn't realise there was such a thing as a drain-off. I was cleaning a trough during the week and thinking what a pain it was. Cheers.

foxy farmer · 28-04-2015 1:25pm

Anyone use Hyundai welding rods? Local coop started stocking them as they're cheaper than Oerlikon. Have been using them with a while but notice that when using a new rod the arc keeps breaking till nearly half the rod is burned. Will burn grand and continuously then to the finish. Drove me demented last night.Thought it might be dampness but have an older open box of Oerlikon 4mm that burn fine start to finish.

Reggie. · 28-04-2015 1:59pm

foxy farmer wrote: »

Anyone use Hyundai welding rods? Local coop started stocking them as they're cheaper than Oerlikon. Have been using them with a while but notice that when using a new rod the arc keeps breaking till nearly half the rod is burned. Will burn grand and continuously then to the finish. Drove me demented last night.Thought it might be dampness but have an older open box of Oerlikon 4mm that burn fine start to finish.

I buy from wholesale welding supplies online. Buy their own brand stuff. It's good products and alot cheaper than big company named products

blue5000 · 28-04-2015 4:35pm

foxy farmer wrote: »

Anyone use Hyundai welding rods? Local coop started stocking them as they're cheaper than Oerlikon. Have been using them with a while but notice that when using a new rod the arc keeps breaking till nearly half the rod is burned. Will burn grand and continuously then to the finish. Drove me demented last night.Thought it might be dampness but have an older open box of Oerlikon 4mm that burn fine start to finish.

Haven't used them but heard they're very spluttery.

raypallas · 28-04-2015 8:09pm

foxy farmer wrote:

Anyone use Hyundai welding rods? Local coop started stocking them as they're cheaper than Oerlikon. Have been using them with a while but notice that when using a new rod the arc keeps breaking till nearly half the rod is burned. Will burn grand and continuously then to the finish. Drove me demented last night.Thought it might be dampness but have an older open box of Oerlikon 4mm that burn fine start to finish.

Have used them before, didn't take much notice of them. Did find them fairly cheap so i suppose you get what you pay for!

Figerty · 28-04-2015 9:27pm

raypallas wrote: »

Have used them before, didn't take much notice of them. Did find them fairly cheap so i suppose you get what you pay for!

Any chance they are damp. By the time you have gotten to half way they are dried out.

Labour Saving and General Guntering

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