Anti-vaxxers

VicMackey1 · 02-09-2020 1:31pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How much in legal fees would it have costed the taxpayer to contest all of the claims?

Dont know but that is what is happening at the moment. All of the claims are being contested and there is no workable settlement offer.

VicMackey1 · 02-09-2020 1:38pm

CramCycle wrote: »

With a 1:55000 got the vaccine, getting Narcolepsy, is going to happen to 10.7 people.

But that's not what happened. Over 100, mostly children got narcolepsy which was a big increase. All of those have been medically proven narcolepsy. Cant fake a polysomnography!

VicMackey1 · 02-09-2020 1:40pm

*Mod Snip*

Regardless of what position you take, posts like that are not helpful

VicMackey1 · 02-09-2020 1:47pm

Conclusion from the Final Report of National Narcolepsy Study Steering Committee.

Through a retrospective population‐based cohort study, we demonstrated that the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children/adolescents in Ireland from 2009 was associated with vaccination with Pandemrix. All cases who were tested and results available at time of chart retrieval (n=17) occurred in those who are genetically susceptible. The association could not be assessed accurately in adults because of the small number of cases reported. Our results were very similar to the findings reported from Finland and other
Scandinavian countries.

Although we cannot exclude any selection or confounding bias which might have overestimated the risk of narcolepsy linked to Pandemrix vaccination, we believe that the association was so high that it is unlikely to be explained by any possible bias. Extensive case finding was undertaken in Ireland over the last 6 months and it unlikely that 33 – 55 cases in the unvaccinated cohort of 5‐19 year olds are awaiting presentation to primary care and or investigation in secondary care.

CramCycle · 02-09-2020 2:39pm

VicMackey1 wrote: »

But that's not what happened. Over 100, mostly children got narcolepsy which was a big increase. All of those have been medically proven narcolepsy. Cant fake a polysomnography!

I was going solely on what was posted above my post

paul71 · 02-09-2020 5:25pm

mountai wrote: »

I just wonder , if a child belonging to one of the " Medical Stormtroopers" suffered from this vaccine , would they be asking " How many other children suffered " . Dont think so .

So still no proof. There is a meme of cats licking something earlier. That was better research.

CramCycle · 03-09-2020 7:31am

Igotadose wrote: »

You might want to raise that question in one of the Covid threads; short answer, there *ARE* long term effects. Lung damage, organ damage, neurological impacts. You don't want this virus.

According to some its a binary die or do not, there is no inbetween.

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Conclusion from the Final Report of National Narcolepsy Study Steering Committee.

Through a retrospective population‐based cohort study, we demonstrated that the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children/adolescents in Ireland from 2009 was associated with vaccination with Pandemrix. All cases who were tested and results available at time of chart retrieval (n=17) occurred in those who are genetically susceptible. The association could not be assessed accurately in adults because of the small number of cases reported. Our results were very similar to the findings reported from Finland and other
Scandinavian countries.

Although we cannot exclude any selection or confounding bias which might have overestimated the risk of narcolepsy linked to Pandemrix vaccination, we believe that the association was so high that it is unlikely to be explained by any possible bias. Extensive case finding was undertaken in Ireland over the last 6 months and it unlikely that 33 – 55 cases in the unvaccinated cohort of 5‐19 year olds are awaiting presentation to primary care and or investigation in secondary care.

Can you send on a link ot the report, I found the site but the link I got for the report wouldn't work, cheers.

VicMackey1 · 03-09-2020 9:34am

CramCycle wrote: »

According to some its a binary die or do not, there is no inbetween.

Can you send on a link ot the report, I found the site but the link I got for the report wouldn't work, cheers.

This link should work

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/publications/influenzavaccinationpublications/narcolepsyassociatedwithpandemicvaccination/File,13379,en.pdf

alaimacerc · 04-09-2020 6:57pm

CramCycle wrote: »

According to some its a binary die or do not, there is no inbetween.

According to whom, is I think perhaps salient. And on what evidence, even moreso.

There's any number of people who will declate CV-19 to be 99.<pick a residual> 'harmless', merrily including people who're still slowly recovering months later as 'unharmed'. Yet will give you 'vaccine harm' stats that'll include numbers of people who've had a slight rash for a couple of days.

CramCycle · 05-09-2020 9:48am

alaimacerc wrote: »

According to whom, is I think perhaps salient. And on what evidence, even moreso.

No evidence whatsoever. I think in many cases its wilful ignorance, or intentional assh*l*ry. If they ignore these, it is easier to justify their selfish behaviour. They have convinced themselves, even if they have heard different, that this is the only metric, as if it is a coin flip with a weighted coin, i.e. you might die but more often than not, you won't. These people ignore the stories of people struggling to do anything for months after, or those with permanent organ damage. There is another cohort with this belief but I do believe that they are unknowing as all they hear on the news they listen too is total number of deaths, positive cases and recovered cases, which probably creates this illusion in the back of their mind.

There's any number of people who will declate CV-19 to be 99.<pick a residual> 'harmless', merrily including people who're still slowly recovering months later as 'unharmed'. Yet will give you 'vaccine harm' stats that'll include numbers of people who've had a slight rash for a couple of days.

It's a bit head wrecking to be honest. They present them as if everyone who has a slight rash, numbness or a slight immune reaction as if they have developed a life changing illness. I wouldn't even call them an adverse reaction, they are what is expected to happen in many cases.

Seth Brundle · 06-09-2020 1:21pm

Muppet...
https://twitter.com/ianbrown/status/1302252429191401473?s=19

Igotadose · 06-09-2020 1:28pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Muppet...
https://twitter.com/ianbrown/status/1302252429191401473?s=19

Is there anything special about this particular muppet? An Irish politician? As anti-vax droolage goes, this is pretty mild and common. Take a look at the Kerryman facebook page comments on the latest Covid outbreaks, if you want to be disappointed in your fellow Irish citizen.

Seth Brundle · 06-09-2020 1:32pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Is there anything special about this particular muppet? An Irish politician? As anti-vax droolage goes, this is pretty mild and common. Take a look at the Kerryman facebook page comments on the latest Covid outbreaks, if you want to be disappointed in your fellow Irish citizen.

Oops. Ian Brown was the singer with the Stone Roses and is now a solo artist

Brian? · 06-09-2020 2:04pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

Vaccines are fine. The ones that work and have no long term health consequences.

However, what if anti vaxxers are correct, at least in part. How do we know that there are not potentially dangerous vaccines on the market and how would we know before taking them?

We don't know 100%, but the science tells us that it's probably safe.

alaimacerc · 06-09-2020 11:19pm

CramCycle wrote: »

It's a bit head wrecking to be honest. They present them as if everyone who has a slight rash, numbness or a slight immune reaction as if they have developed a life changing illness. I wouldn't even call them an adverse reaction, they are what is expected to happen in many cases.

I dunno quite what the threshold for what's counted as such. I've had rashes on my arm simply from donating blood, so at that level evidently you can get a 'reaction' regardless of any actual substances being injected.

And having an immune reaction... well, that's sorta the whole point, isn't it?

alaimacerc · 06-09-2020 11:24pm

Igotadose wrote: »

As anti-vax droolage goes, this is pretty mild and common.

What I find especially disspiriting, though, is that it's not merely anti-vax (in advance of there even being one) it's anti-everything-public-health-measure, too. If we had vax-deniers who could manage to specialise in that, and simtaneously cover their faces, socially distance, get tested, and play ball with contact tracing, we'd have a fighting chance of them not being fast-breeder-reactor super-spreaders.

YFlyer · 06-09-2020 11:28pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Muppet...
https://twitter.com/ianbrown/status/1302252429191401473?s=19

Whizz is a hell of a drug.

ancapailldorcha · 07-09-2020 7:59am

alaimacerc wrote: »

What I find especially disspiriting, though, is that it's not merely anti-vax (in advance of there even being one) it's anti-everything-public-health-measure, too. If we had vax-deniers who could manage to specialise in that, and simtaneously cover their faces, socially distance, get tested, and play ball with contact tracing, we'd have a fighting chance of them not being fast-breeder-reactor super-spreaders.

Dispiriting but not surprising. If you're prone to one type of toxic nonsense then it stands to reason that you'd accept the lizard people guff, the 5G twaddle or the anti-masker with little hesitation as well.

Igotadose · 10-09-2020 1:43pm

Interesting thread on why not to trust the rushed Covid vaccines being spouted about by the #IMPOTUS and his merry band. For the record, I am firmly in the anti-anti-vax camp. I have more use for genital herpes than anti-vaxxers and I am very pro-vaccine.

However, I share this doctor's concerns that the #IMPOTUS is rushing a vaccine approval any way he can. He's abusing the EUA process and doing anything possible to get a vaccine announced before 3 Nov 2020 in order be reelected, Getting reelected to save himself from prolonged litigation and hopeful incarceration that will happen should the #IMPOTUS not be reelected.

https://twitter.com/PeterHotez/status/1301275248248139778

storker · 10-09-2020 1:54pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Oops. Ian Brown was the singer with the Stone Roses and is now a solo artist

Kind of ironic as this would help him to socially distance...

Seth Brundle · 15-09-2020 4:23pm

Proper order!
https://twitter.com/yascaoimhin/status/1305831595723706369

paul71 · 18-09-2020 12:52am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Proper order!
https://twitter.com/yascaoimhin/status/1305831595723706369

That kind of reminds me of the Greenpeace stunt pulled back in the 80s. The "perfectly safe" sand from the beach at Sellafield was dumped in central London and London council workers dressed in radiation protection suits to clear it.

hcf500 · 18-09-2020 4:55pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Interesting thread on why not to trust the rushed Covid vaccines being spouted about by the #IMPOTUS and his merry band. For the record, I am firmly in the anti-anti-vax camp. I have more use for genital herpes than anti-vaxxers and I am very pro-vaccine.

However, I share this doctor's concerns that the #IMPOTUS is rushing a vaccine approval any way he can. He's abusing the EUA process and doing anything possible to get a vaccine announced before 3 Nov 2020 in order be reelected, Getting reelected to save himself from prolonged litigation and hopeful incarceration that will happen should the #IMPOTUS not be reelected.

https://twitter.com/PeterHotez/status/1301275248248139778

Fully agree. Good reason to avoid this vaccine. Drumph being able to rush the vaccine also shows that the regulatory bodies for pharmaceuticals are not to be trusted!

ancapailldorcha · 18-09-2020 6:58pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Interesting thread on why not to trust the rushed Covid vaccines being spouted about by the #IMPOTUS and his merry band. For the record, I am firmly in the anti-anti-vax camp. I have more use for genital herpes than anti-vaxxers and I am very pro-vaccine.

However, I share this doctor's concerns that the #IMPOTUS is rushing a vaccine approval any way he can. He's abusing the EUA process and doing anything possible to get a vaccine announced before 3 Nov 2020 in order be reelected, Getting reelected to save himself from prolonged litigation and hopeful incarceration that will happen should the #IMPOTUS not be reelected.

https://twitter.com/PeterHotez/status/1301275248248139778

Bit of a scaremongery vibe off that to be honest. That's the US as well so a giant mountain of salt needed. Europeans tend to be significantly more stringent with safety testing.

If we can't see the clinical trial data when the vaccine is out then there's cause to panic but I can't see that happening.

Igotadose · 21-09-2020 9:34am

An interesting read on what happens when a Covid-19 vaccine actually becomes available. The article is focused on 'who gets it when' and is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I found these two early paragraphs enlightening:
"

The supply of a new COVID-19 vaccine is limited by many factors – regulatory review (yes, the FDA and other regulatory agencies must approve the manufacturing facilities for new drugs after the company receives approval to market their drugs), manufacturing bottlenecks, the number of doses required for “immunity,” and distributions problems, especially the need to store these vaccines at extremely low temperatures (no, your home refrigerator won’t get that cold).

In fact, that last point is something that everyone overlooks – your average physician does not have the ultra-low temperature freezers, usually only hospitals and major health departments. And they aren’t cheap. Furthermore, vaccines just don’t show up at a physician’s office or hospital directly from Big Pharma – they are delivered by a massive distributor network that may not have delivery vehicles that can properly store the vaccines as they drive their trucks across the deserts of Arizona in October.

This isn’t just an issue in the USA, it’s across the world. People magically believe that once a vaccine is approved it will suddenly be available to hundreds of millions of people. Nothing could be further from the truth."

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/coronavirus-vaccine-priority-list-if-i-were-elected-the-emperor-of-vaccines/

seligehgit · 21-09-2020 2:14pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Dispiriting but not surprising. If you're prone to one type of toxic nonsense then it stands to reason that you'd accept the lizard people guff, the 5G twaddle or the anti-masker with little hesitation as well.

I definitely believe the cohort of such individuals is growing on a very worrying basis in Ireland.

ancapailldorcha · 21-09-2020 2:15pm

seligehgit wrote: »

I definitely believe the cohort of such individuals is growing on a very worrying basis in Ireland.

I'd say they're just getting more vocal and brazen rather than more numerous to be honest.

demello · 21-09-2020 6:52pm

Igotadose wrote: »

An interesting read on what happens when a Covid-19 vaccine actually becomes available. The article is focused on 'who gets it when' and is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I found these two early paragraphs enlightening:
"

The supply of a new COVID-19 vaccine is limited by many factors – regulatory review (yes, the FDA and other regulatory agencies must approve the manufacturing facilities for new drugs after the company receives approval to market their drugs), manufacturing bottlenecks, the number of doses required for “immunity,” and distributions problems, especially the need to store these vaccines at extremely low temperatures (no, your home refrigerator won’t get that cold).

In fact, that last point is something that everyone overlooks – your average physician does not have the ultra-low temperature freezers, usually only hospitals and major health departments. And they aren’t cheap. Furthermore, vaccines just don’t show up at a physician’s office or hospital directly from Big Pharma – they are delivered by a massive distributor network that may not have delivery vehicles that can properly store the vaccines as they drive their trucks across the deserts of Arizona in October.

This isn’t just an issue in the USA, it’s across the world. People magically believe that once a vaccine is approved it will suddenly be available to hundreds of millions of people. Nothing could be further from the truth."

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/coronavirus-vaccine-priority-list-if-i-were-elected-the-emperor-of-vaccines/

The very low temperatures are only needed for certain types of vaccines. Classical vaccines need only be stored at 4oC, and these will form most of the supply when they are approved. So it is misleading to say that very specilized storage will be needed for Coronavirus vaccines, this will be rarely be the case

ProfessorPlum · 21-09-2020 9:07pm

demello wrote: »

The very low temperatures are only needed for certain types of vaccines. Classical vaccines need only be stored at 4oC, and these will form most of the supply when they are approved. So it is misleading to say that very specilized storage will be needed for Coronavirus vaccines, this will be rarely be the case

Even at 4C, it will be a mammoth operation, particularly for air freight. Refrigeration in aircraft is not so straight forward, and globally many thousands of aircraft are grounded, vastly reducing the lift capacity available.

https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/11/Delivering-COVID-19-vaccines-the-mission-of-the-century-for-air-cargo-industry

CramCycle · 21-09-2020 9:10pm

Many of the big pharma companies that are looking at vaccines can turn many of their local continent operations to this. An expensive job but as described, increases capacity, speed and reduces transport issues.

Anti-vaxxers

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