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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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12467…54

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    #92
    Thestones
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Thestones


    robp wrote: »
    Private home owners have no social responsibly to house people. They just don't.

    No they don't however Airbnb doesn't just impact renters looking for a place to live it affects anyone living next door to an Airbnb property. No one wants to live next door to a house or apartment that has different people every week making noise, having parties or whatever. I feel sorry for people living in apartment blocks that have this issue. It's a social responsibility to get these regulations in place. For those that say 'my home, I'll do what I like' well sorry but regulations are put in place for good reason and unless you live in a detached house with its own land you can't really just do what you want without consequences, if your property is an apartment complex or housing estate then regulations need to be there to protect everyone.


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    #93
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    handlemaster wrote: »
    so true. I expect this to add a few percentages to the cost of renting in those areas affected.
    Scaremongering. Why would it? Even in the worst case, if all former Air B&B properties remain empty, there will be no rent increases, because supply and demand stay the same. If only one former Air B&B property will be rented out to long-term tenants or sold to an owner-occupier, the rents will decrease, as supply increases and demand stays the same.


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    #94
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Anything but build houses or develop sites. Rental prices won’t go down now anyway, so what’s the point really. If anything it will just hurt tourists and Irish people going away for a weekend in Ireland. What does Murphy think that a flat that was €1800 a month in Dublin, will now be €1600, because a few Airbnb are shut down?! The rents will stay the same ffs, or they’ll continue to rise. Token bullsh1t gestures like these do nothing to affect the market. 10,000 new homes in Dublin or Cork would do something.


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    #95
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    this measure on it's own will not solve the housing crisis, but surely it is better to light a candle as it were.
    by freeing up these short-term lets, it will mean more available houses for families and long-term tenants.

    and as a bonus the neighbours of these units will not have to endure tourists, stags, hens, etc. coming & going at all hours.
    double bonus! we might get less frickin tourists blocking up our airports, streets, and pubs!


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    #96
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    dionsiseire wrote: »
    If thousands of people now have homes before Christmas, I'm all for this.


    Xmas 2019 maybe, the new legislation won't take effect until June '19 and gives 90 days which will take us through the summer - although planning will be required I expect that part will effectively be ignored as it is at the moment. There might be a crack down after that, but even that I doubt. They'll be one or two high profile cases and then sod all enforcement. At some point AirBnB may co-operate with handing over details but I expect it'll still go on, on a much smaller scale through other websites.


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    #97
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I think it is Air BnB going back to basics. You know.... host visitors in your own home for an agreed fee.

    Not someone with twenty apartments or more letting them out constantly in high demand areas under ABB.

    Anyway, the ordinary Joe or Josie who is letting out a room or rooms in their house say every weekend or when there is a big gig on will get a reasonable price per night. They are not being restricted. Halve that though and add on USC and PRSI for the bottom line.

    They can also let their entire property out in blocks of 14 days to a max of 90 days per annum.

    Apart from the tax implications mentioned above, sounds like a good deal within the original spirit of ABB.

    RAR is a better bet taxwise, but ABB suits others who have a spare room too.


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    #98
    l5auim2pjnt8qx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭l5auim2pjnt8qx


    Effectively it's not coming in until June 2019 and Landlords will still be able to
    airbnb until 90 days , Councils will not be able to enforce Landlords to register 3 month tenancies or less as they don't have the capacity or time to deal with this - it will be all threats and blowing smoke from housing bodies alike!
    .

    Eoghan Murphy again lacking leadership qualities as a Minister and pandering to
    Threshold and other nanny state agencies.I know of many Landlords that would rather leave there properties vacant than be told by the state who they can put into there properties.

    Criminal convictions for non paying tenants is long overdue and I've said this before a Landlord national Boycott of Threshold as this agency is becoming a rogue state agency causing unbelievable damage to the lettings market and the families it is suppose to be looking after.( threshold CEO salary on over 100K)
    It's no wonder we have a crisis.


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GGTrek wrote: »
    It is an unenforceable and probably uncostitutional ban for owner occupiers who are free to invite into their home whomever they want (paying or not paying). The limit of 14 days is left wing commie BS of the highest order! In the case of owner occupiers as long as there is no anti-social behaviour that would grant police presence, the govvie is screwed and it is just political posturing and appeasing the hard left political agenda (who are screaming very loud). Please tell me how the councils or any govvie agent will be able to enforce any of such BS against an owner occupier, council inspectors will not have right of entry and will have to go to a court to request entry with very solid evidence to get a warrant for entry (by which time any guest will be gone) and judge will likely refuse since it is not criminal activity. I know what I would do if a council inspector tried to get access to my own home for any of this BS, I would tell him/her to .... right off with great pleasure.

    It’s not aimed at owner occupiers. It’s aimed at those who let out whole houses/apartments on short term lets. Those properties that were built as private dwellings, not commercial properties.


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    #100
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    Councils will not be able to enforce Landlords to register 3 month tenancies or less as they don't have the capacity or time to deal with this

    "owners will have to tell the local authority that they intend to avail of an exemption allowing them to 'homeshare'"

    Hold the letting platforms responsible for checking.
    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    I know of many Landlords that would rather leave there properties vacant than be told by the state who they can put into there properties.

    In a market where capital appreciation has slowed to a crawl, you would have to be a fairly daft investor to think this was a good idea while monthly costs/insurance issues stack up.


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    #101
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    Criminal convictions for non paying tenants is long overdue

    We should absolutely not be giving criminal convictions for civil matters.


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    #102
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,614 ✭✭✭Nermal


    dionsiseire wrote: »
    We banned Uber because it would interfere with the whole market of taxi drivers and undermine the license plate system.

    And yet where Uber is allowed, taxis are plentiful and cheap. I’m sure there’s a lesson about regulation in there somewhere...


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    #103
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Nermal wrote: »
    And yet where Uber is allowed, taxis are plentiful and cheap. I’m sure there’s a lesson about regulation in there somewhere...

    Dublin taxis are actually not especially expensive.

    Paris has Uber and taxis there are much more expensive than here. They also have striking Uber drivers.

    There might be a lesson about not generalising.


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    #104
    l5auim2pjnt8qx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭l5auim2pjnt8qx


    Graham wrote: »
    "owners will have to tell the local authority that they intend to avail of an exemption allowing them to 'homeshare'"

    Hold the letting platforms responsible for checking.



    In a market where capital appreciation has slowed to a crawl, you would have to be a fairly daft investor to think this was a good idea while monthly costs/insurance issues stack up.

    "Will have to" ! needs to be enforced by an already stretched Councils .Most Landlords that are not resident in this country will have no appetite to seek exemption as no fines will he enforceable to them.


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    #105
    l5auim2pjnt8qx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭l5auim2pjnt8qx


    Amirani wrote: »
    We should absolutely not be giving criminal convictions for civil matters.

    Depends on how you perceive Civil Matter or categorise it. If I stayed in hotel and didn't pay at the end would it then be Civil.


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    #106
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    "Will have to" ! needs to be enforced by an already stretched Councils .Most Landlords that are not resident in this country will have no appetite to seek exemption as no fines will he enforceable to them.

    From the announcement.
    Additional resources will be provided within Dublin City Council’s Planning Section to oversee the compilation of registers and to monitor enforcement. People found to not be in compliance with these changes will risk criminal conviction under forthcoming legislation.


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    #107
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,111 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    aloooof wrote: »
    Possibly tangential to this thread, so apologies, but are there reasons why someone would chose this route over the Rent A Room scheme? Or does using AirBNB for you spare room come under the RAR?

    We went with AirBnB rather than rent a room because
    (a) if we had a not so nice guest they would be gone within a week,
    (b) we could block off days we are away ourselves and know we didn't have to worry about getting bookings at that time,
    (c) we used to be Couchsurfing hosts, which was like AirBnB but no money changing hands, so we liked the idea of offering a low cost alternative to people
    (d) we like meeting new people.

    There are no tax breaks for it. We declare all our AirBnB income as non-PAYE income and Revenue take it from there. We are never going to become millionaires on it, but that was never our intention.


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    #108
    l5auim2pjnt8qx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭l5auim2pjnt8qx


    Graham wrote: »
    From the announcement.

    So its only Dublin City Council supposingly getting these powers that will cost how much money and energy when they come transfer it to building social units which under the Constitution are suppose to provide social housing.

    Wouldn't it also be discriminatory by the state to impose these laws just in Dublin, signalling out Dublin.

    Also airbnb stretches Dublin 1-8 by mainly 1-4 ,most of these properties would not be bound by the 4 per cent rpz as most would be out of this percentage by 2 years thus granting them higher than normal market value rent .....this would see
    rents rising much higher than ever before.


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    #109
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    So its only Dublin City Council supposingly getting these powers

    No

    DCC are getting additional resources, not powers.

    With 3100 - 3800 entire properties in Dublin listed on some of the larger booking platforms, it does sound like a sensible place to start concentrating the efforts.


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    #110
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Thestones wrote: »
    robp wrote: »
    Private home owners have no social responsibly to house people. They just don't.

    No they don't however Airbnb doesn't just impact renters looking for a place to live it affects anyone living next door to an Airbnb property. No one wants to live next door to a house or apartment that has different people every week making noise, having parties or whatever. I feel sorry for people living in apartment blocks that have this issue. It's a social responsibility to get these regulations in place. For those that say 'my home, I'll do what I like' well sorry but regulations are put in place for good reason and unless you live in a detached house with its own land you can't really just do what you want without consequences, if your property is an apartment complex or housing estate then regulations need to be there to protect everyone.
    Where is there evidence that AirBnB users are rowdy?


  • Options
    #111
    l5auim2pjnt8qx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭l5auim2pjnt8qx


    Graham wrote: »
    No

    DCC are getting additional resources, not powers.

    With 3100 - 3800 entire properties in Dublin listed on some of the larger booking platforms, it does sound like a sensible place to start concentrating the efforts.

    Resources assumingly means more bodies and money it will be meaningless without
    powers to back it up. I don't have a problem with out stretched properties in a southward airbnb direction coming back onstream but this does nothing to house the homeless as these properties will be on the higher end of the scale.

    Wrong type of Government interference obviously shaking by Threshold and Political scoring from other parties.


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    #112
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    If it wasnt written I wouldnt believe there are people out there with this attitude. How many jobs are support by tourism in ireland ?

    which confirms my point that there are too many tourists.
    try getting a hotel in Dublin any weekend and you'll see.

    maybe it's time we stopped trying to be a leprechaun theme park for them.

    O lord. There's no point... LOl


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    #113
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Marie Narrow Custodian wrote: »
    Resources assumingly means more bodies and money it will be meaningless without
    powers to back it up. I don't have a problem with out stretched properties in a southward airbnb direction coming back onstream but this does nothing to house the homeless as these properties will be on the higher end of the scale.

    Wrong type of Government interference obviously shaking by Threshold and Political scoring from other parties.

    To be honest, the simple fact of forcing people to register with a public authority, forcing the main short-term rental platforms to collect that registration number for all their ads and sharing them with the authority, and cross-referencing those datasets would provide any good initial level of enforcement for a very minimal cost.

    This is not reinventing the wheel either as many other cities/countries have such system in place already (meaning that most likely Airbnb’s IT systems already support this, and they would just have to flick the switch for Ireland).


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JPFabo wrote: »
    Its a ban on landlords.....no landlord is going to be issued with a short term letting licence, so its a ban, no two ways about it. The government can spin it how they want.

    I’m delighted. Residential developments should be for housing people, not to run a sideline business providing accommodation for tourists and short term visitors.

    If that’s your gig, buy a B&B or invest in a hotel.


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    #115
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭enricoh


    handlemaster wrote: »
    O lord. There's no point... LOl

    Too many tourists? Well this new law should help get rid of some of them to other countries. Tax on hotels, cafes etc went up 4.5% in the budget, that should help get rid of more.
    Who needs tourists and the money they spend anyway!!
    Sod the tourist industry, let's concentrate on beefing up the homeless industry!


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    #116
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I think it is Air BnB going back to basics. You know.... host visitors in your own home for an agreed fee.

    Not someone with twenty apartments or more letting them out constantly in high demand areas under ABB.

    Anyway, the ordinary Joe or Josie who is letting out a room or rooms in their house say every weekend or when there is a big gig on will get a reasonable price per night. They are not being restricted. Halve that though and add on USC and PRSI for the bottom line.

    They can also let their entire property out in blocks of 14 days to a max of 90 days per annum.

    Apart from the tax implications mentioned above, sounds like a good deal within the original spirit of ABB.

    RAR is a better bet taxwise, but ABB suits others who have a spare room too.


    Yea pretty much this.


    The only people this affects are the chancer landlords who've been flouting it for years now. Meh. They've had it good for quite a while, they must have known it would come to an end as the arse is being ripped out of it now.


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    #117
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    awec wrote: »
    Yea pretty much this.


    The only people this affects are the chancer landlords who've been flouting it for years now. Meh. They've had it good for quite a while, they must have known it would come to an end as the arse is being ripped out of it now.

    I would also add that I remember several occurrences whereby when Airbnb was touted here as long term option for landlords, several posters (including myself) warned that it shouldn’t be seen as sustainable as amongst other things it was at odds with planing permissions and would likely be shut down eventually.

    So it’s not like it is a big surprise and no one saw it coming, and those who are getting caught up should only blame themselves.


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    #118
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Everyone that's used Airbnb in recent years is guilty of fuelling its success here. I'm not a landlord. I've used airbnb, always had a great experience. It's a cheap way to travel. Let's be honest about it.

    For young people it's your best friend and worst enemy. If you want a cheap weekend.... Airbnb. But it's contributed to housing shortage etc.

    Anyway it was good while it lasted. But it wasn't just tourists using it. Irish were using it too.... in their thousands. So let's not be hypocritical about it. We all love a cheap trip.

    I can see why apartments in communal buildings should get permission from management to host on airbnb..... But if its your private house, I'm inclined to say its you own business what you do with your own private residence. Just my opinion. I'm sure many will disagree.


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    #119
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    I have to laugh at the amount of commercial landlords presenting themselves as 'home owners'. There is a big difference between home owner, house owner and even hotel operator.


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    #120
    Debtocracy
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭Debtocracy


    I like how when these regulations come out, landlords are all “Please think of the poor tenants/tourists”. My other favourite is the sulking, “well I might as well sell up now”, as if their house will disappear into a black hole.

    Can they not just admit they’re pissed because they want to extract the most money as possible, in the most passive way possible.


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    #121
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Everyone that's used Airbnb in recent years is guilty of fuelling its success here. I'm not a landlord. I've used airbnb, always had a great experience. It's a cheap way to travel. Let's be honest about it.

    For young people it's your best friend and worst enemy. If you want a cheap weekend.... Airbnb. But it's contributed to housing shortage etc.

    Anyway it was good while it lasted. But it wasn't just tourists using it. Irish were using it too.... in their thousands. So let's not be hypocritical about it. We all love a cheap trip.

    I can see why apartments in communal buildings should get permission from management to host on airbnb..... But if its your private house, I'm inclined to say its you own business what you do with your own private residence. Just my opinion. I'm sure many will disagree.

    i agree with you. private houses shouldn't be a nuisance to anybody, but blocks of flats are an entirely different matter.


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